Installation is Code compliant as per 2021 Canadian Electrical Code 12-510-1a - NMS cable supported 300mm/12" of the device box 12-510-2 - Stud hole is considered support for the lower cable 12-516 - NMS cable was kept 32mm/1.25" from the edges 10-614 appendix b & CSA C22.2 No. 42 - Switch is bonded by mounting screws to the device enclosure in this case a metal box. A device service loop is considered good practice during electrical rough-in, in most if not all parts of Canada. However not required by CEC and does not violate any codes for this installation. Just for clarification for non-canadian electricians. One small terminology error, the white conductor in this case is an identified conductor, not a neutral. Good video clear and right to the point.
@@jeremiahbullfrog9288 In normal operating conditions the intent of a neutral is to carry the unbalanced current in a single-phase system. In this case, your white conductor carries the full load current when the device is energized and is the only return path to your source in a non-fault condition. As defined in section 0 of the CEC, the term neutral in a single-phase system would only apply to a 3-wire circuit. Hope that clarifies the difference a bit better.
Now I know why you call it rough in . That looks as the name suggests. Rough.. Here in UK 🇬🇧 call first fix and when we fit the accessories ie socket faceplate and switch plate and light fittings we call it second fix . Also for a lighting circuit we take a feed from the fuse box to the first light then we take a switch line down to the switch the we take a feed from the first light to the next and we repeat until we have all the lights wired each lighting point haves it’s own switch end result each light fixture will have 3x 1.0mm2 twin and earth one of which is the switch line there is no neutral at the switch so the neutral wire is identified as live with a bit of brown sleeving in the UK our cable colours are brown = line blue =neutral bare copper =earth the switch wires are called switch line and switch return. At the ceiling rose we have feed in loop out and switch drop. Or or simply loop in loop out switch drop no wire nuts or other connectors are used . Except for when we take the feed to the switch .
@@Dog-whisperer7494 Many light circuits are wired that way in Canada too, as in feeding power to the junction box where the fixture goes and then connecting the switch to that box via a switch drop. In that case you'd only have a single 2-wire cable going from the junction box to the switch box, requiring no wire joints. EDIT: Before people misunderstand and scream bloody murder, a 2-wire cable includes two current carrying conductors and a ground wire. Technically there are three wires, but only the current carrying wires are called out in the numbering.
Do you not use rubber grommets to protect the edges of the box?????? We also use a green and yellow sleeve to cover the short bare earth bonding wires.
This is really interesting. And thank you for clarifying the loop allowance per code. That was throwing me off since in other jurisdictions it’s not allowed.
this is great, do some more examples with more wires coming into a box. I am always amazed at how neat electricians make complicated boxes look good. would love to see some done :)
It's in the works. So many ideas so little time. I'm on the tools full time so I don't always have time to shoot videos as much as I'd like. Thank you for watching.
The service loop is a good idea. It makes the stiff cable more flexible and easy to maneuver. Similar to plumbing pipes and hoses in very tight spaces.
I love the service loop. There have been many times when I needed to move a receptacle after it has been wired and the service loop left me just enough wire to do so.
That's was really good.i need help figuring out to put mass wires back into a LED fixture with a E driver. Man I'm having a hard time putting the light fixture back together with all the wires in the way?
Ya I had that problem before too. Trying to fit too many wires into a light base that was too small. The only advice I can think of is to zip tie or tape the wires together to make the bundle smaller and easier to handle. I even try to tape the bundle down to the base. Hope it helps.
Would love all the electricians in the comments to post a video on how they wire and install a switch box from their country please. Would love to comment on those.
I like the service loop - I guess you are at the mercy of your local inspector, but an extra couple inches can be a lot of help. Cutting your equipment grounding conductor around here would get dinged since you can’t guarantee someone will use a receptacle that support that technique. Well spoken and clearly demonstrated.
I have never been called by an inspector over service loops. It just makes sense to have them. On more than one occasion I have had to pull out some extra wire after drywallers cut them.
@@energyoneelectric the service loop is a great idea and no problem with it. I was concerned about cutting the ground wire short and not using the device grounding terminal.
@@MrKen59 that’s a slightly tricky one. Depends on the switch, if it’s the residential grade, you gotta ground the switch. If it’s a higher quality switch, and is self-grounding, you don’t have to.
I believe there's supposed to be a quarter inch of romex sheathing minimum inside the box. I'm not sure we're seeing that? And while I understand the usefulness of a service loop for extra wire, coiling backwards like that means that if you need to pull the extra wire through you can create a kink in the cable.
My exact thoughts. You create curly Q's looping it that way. I also curl my grounding around the screw for a snug mechanical bond. Probably better to loop the romex across to the adjacent stud and then back and into the box or come down an adjacent stud and curve the romex like a backwards 'S' on its side, using an external cable clamp so the wire goes straight down into the box with several inches to spare. As long as it is secured 12" from and the length of wire until the strap does not exceed 18", this is permitted by code.
@@knowledgeableharpy2329 By curling your bond around the screw you eliminate the possibility of adding a second bond wire. You also can damage the bond wire by wrapping it. Not good practice.
@@guyzer6197 Nonsense. Why would I add a second wire if one is landed and I can add a 2nd in the wire nut? I've never damaged a ground wire by having a secure bond.
@@knowledgeableharpy2329 During our recent house reno, I encountered half a dozen metal box grounding wires that were damaged or actually broken when the wire was looped over the screw and then pulled too tight. Resulted in the box not being grounded. Of course, the number of current code problems in a 40 year old reno couldn't be easily totaled, partly because of code changes but also because, near as I can tell, they didn't enforce NEC here in the county.
Interesting setup on grounds. You are allowed to use the box as connection across grounds? I'd be afraid it would loosen and want to still use a wire nut to bond the 3 as backup to the screw.
Thanks for watching, Adam. I use Eaton switches and they don't even have a bonding screw. Also, keep in mind that adding a wire nut can reduce your box fill by code.
@@jerseyjim9092 Sorry I don't understand your question the way you worded it. Canadian electric code rule 12-3034 (2)(b) says that for every 2 wire nuts your box fill is reduced by 1 conductor (in my own words of course). So depending on the size of your box and how many wire nuts you already have in it... adding 1 more wire nut may reduce your box fill regardless of which wire the nut is on.
@@energyoneelectric thanks for the response and sorry my question wasn't clear. But your Canada Code reference answered my question. Unless its a recent change, our NEC doesn't count wirenuts in box fill calculations.
Not sure where this is from. But don’t you have to put an EGC pigtailed out for your switch? I understand bonding to your metal box, but what about the ECG?
I don't know where you are, but Eaton switches spec'd for the Canadian market don't have a bonding screw. You need to realize that not everyone on here lives in and follows the American code.
@@energyoneelectric Ah! Now everything makes sense. I didn’t recognize that box and I didn’t recognize the clipping of the ground/bonding wires before. I like that you call them bonding wires since 93% of American electricians don’t understand how the bonding wires (or equipment grounding wires) are used.
Yes, per the NEC, you must have 6" of wire from where the wire enters the box. That's why here in the states we either use stingers or keep the ground wire real long and strip some insulation (commercial) for bonding with the screw, leaving enough to do whatever.
Just reaching out... I am approaching a dilemma and I cannot find any info on my next task so I thought I would reach out and see if I can get some feedback. I have and am sound proofing my middle bedroom to be my new home recording studio. The walls are secure with triple insulation including 1-1/2 rigid foam insulation sealed with insulation spray foam. This room is not only dead silent now it is completely air tight...except for my ceiling. The only thing left is the ceiling. My plan is to also apply the 1-1/2 rigid insulation sheets to the ceiling. Once done the entire room will be completely covered in 2-inch acoustic foam panels. Here's my issue. I need to drop my ceiling light fixtures down about four inches. Wiring is not a concern, but I'm not sure how to securely drop & mount the box to remount my lights to clear the double foam. Your thoughts?
Thanks for reaching out. Don't drop the box, just buy a box extension. It looks like a regular Octagon box but the back is cut out. Same thing for the wall boxes.
@@energyoneelectric Thanks for the feedback...but the extensions you're talking about that I've seen have no way of solidly mounting my light fixture and I have yet to see the round ones...not to mention I need almost 4 inches. Thoughts?
I have a feeling you are thinking about the plastic spark rings which are used for boxes that are deeper inside a wall than normal, but they don't have screw mounts. I'm talking about metal Octagon extension boxes which are missing the back but still have screw mounts like a regular Octagon. Here's a link: www.amazon.com/dp/B000BQWC2M/ref=cm_sw_r_as_gl_apa_gl_i_KQSDZCS34S8MZ4M57803?linkCode=ml2&tag=energyoneel03-20 You will need a a few of these stacked to get your desired drop. Also use longer screws if you just need that extra 1/2 inch or so.
@@energyoneelectric Now that's what I'm talking about! Although it seems a bit over engineered...stacking these seems like the only way to get the results I need. I just ordered them. Thanks a TON...solved a big problem for me!
@@energyoneelectric are you serious? Wire nuts and cable clamped to steel boxes, it’s just… American. Don’t get me wrong I’m a fan of the states but you boys with this archaic voltage and 60s era detail… time to progress!
@@userscott archaic voltage we literally have 240 just like Europe we just have it split at transformer with the neutral tapped in the middle that's how we get 120. It's just a safety thing anything that needs more power is just hooked up to a two pole breaker that way it can use both phases. Also how else do want us to clamp it like a clamp is a clamp I don't get it and what Romex connects work too. Stop bitching about wire nuts they do perfectly fine if used properly wagos are great and save on time and all but there's nothing better than a nicely twisted connection I don't have to rely on some bus bars in the wago that can fail it's just a straight wire to wire connection. Y'all European sparkys need to chill the fuck out.
Biggest question is why wouldn’t you want to ground a switch? I understand the switch will bond to the box but all switches come with a ground screw so why wouldn’t you use it?
Why the tiny metal box? What about box fill? Short grounds are useless for future. I do like the service loop for future work. I guess that makes up some for your short grounds. Here in the U.S. we have to put all our grounds together and ground the box and the device. Also, I was taught to strip an inch or more to twist wires together with my linemans at the last 1/4 inch or so and cut the damaged part off so all the twisted part is a smooth connection going into the wire nut. The longer section you strip the more you can grab for multiple wires and twist. Laying them in as you go. I was hoping you were going to explain how to organize a multi-gang box by squaring up the wires as we called it.
The box is not tiny, it's a single gang 2304 box with the bubbled out sides for extra space. There is no issue here with box fill. In Canada we also ground devices such as lights and receptacles. Switches can be grounded if a bonding screw is present, however, if the switch doesn't have a bonding screw or wire then it will be bonded through the metal of the box where the switch tabs touch the box. In case of a plastic box, there is a metal tab running from the bonding screw of the box up to the screw hole where the switch gets secured. In the future I can show how I do a multi gang box. Thanks for watching!
I have the handbook, so I can take a photo if you want, you’re only allowed to use a switch as your ground if it has a grounded yolk. Which you seem to be glossing over.
I keep getting the same question over and over about the ground wire to the switch. Some switches spec'd for the Canadian market don't have a ground screw. Check this out to see what I mean: wiringdevicesupport.eaton.com/Switches/68689783/Why-do-the-decorator-switches-show-a-grounding-screw-when-there-is-no-screw-on-the-ones-i-bought.htm
All wire shall be minimum 6" in length from where they enter box and if box is less than 8" in any direction of opening it shall extend minimum 3" from opening. The cable sheath shall extend minimum 1/4" past cable clamps. Need to secure cable not more than 12" from cable connector by length of wire. All devices with ground screws need to be bonded with wire (this is not an surface mounted box and cannot use exception in 250)
That's great, my comment is for people in America watching this to let them know there violations to the national electrical code here. Yes, I am an inspector. I call code violations for a living, in the United States.
@@bosatsu76 first i want to mention that I use plastic boxes with gaskets on all exterior walls and ceilings (building code here). I find it harder to insert the cable into the tabs on plastic boxes. With our cold climate sometimes the tabs even break when you're putting pressure on it. Then the little bumps next to the ground screws are always at the tops and bottoms in plastic boxes so I'm forced to bend the ground wire 90 degrees to make it work. Metal boxes the bumps are always on the left and right of the screws making it simpler in my opinion. Next if you need to remove the cable for some reason it's easier to loosen the clamp on a metal box and remove instead of trying to bend those plastic tabs to free your wire. Just personal preference I guess..I may even give plastic boxes a try on the next house to see if I change my mind.
@@energyoneelectric Great stuff... Thanks... I just do a little work around the house so far, so plastic will do me just fine. I'm simply a nosy guy and want to know everything about everything..
It's mighty handy eh? (Legally required national self-identification.) I wonder if you'd still like it if you got to try one. That's not an implied judgement - it would just be interesting to see if you'd be impressed or recoil in horror when you saw one in the flesh. I spent a little time in the UK back in the '90's, and was most impressed by the standard appliance plugs and receptacles there. Our garden-variety plugs are rather lacking by comparison. In particular, they don't stand up well to the way many people treat them. Cheers 🇨🇦
@@scottwilling5315 I’ve been off the tools for a few years now. Desk Jockey! Our standard metal back boxes are 25mm but you can get 35mm and 47mm. The cable entries are just 20mm “knockouts” that we add a rubber grommet to. We also have plastic “cavity” boxes that we use on plasterboard walls. These have plastic parts you can snap off. Neither of these have any form of cable clamp.
@@StorminBriski That's fascinating, thanks for taking the time to respond. We have loads of boxes with round knockouts as well, but we're required to install in that hole some sort of "connector" that clamps the cable. I put "connector" in quotes because I found that terminology surprising when I came to the trade from an electronics background. In trade lingo here, a connector is purely a mechanical device that ties the cable to the box, and the conductors are electrically terminated within by separate means. In electronics a "connector" makes the electrical connection(s), may or may not have a strain relief function, and is usually unpluggable. Different class of animal altogether. You left out a key detail: what country or general geographical area are you in? Also, what sort of support is required (staples e.g.) outside the box?
@@scottwilling5315 I am from the UK. You would normally use capping to support the cable in a chase or on a block wall. In a void you would need cable clips but in reality people omit these so they could pull a new cable in if required in the future. You are also required to use metal support for cables that go over escape routes. (So they can’t come down in the event of a fire)
Are you in Canada where metal boxes and switches without an EGC are common? For American viewers who are working with plastic boxes, NEC 404.9 requires the switch to be connected to the EGC. While this video would comply due to the use of the metal box, it would not if he were using a non-conductive (I.e., plastic) box. As someone who has done a bit of remodeling on older installations, I cring watching you cut back all the EGCs. Couldn’t you show a future brother some love and leave at least one longer tail? At least there’s service loops so more could be pulled in to extend the ground, if required in the future.
Yes I am in Canada. I'm not familiar with American electrical codes other than hearing that they have a lot of similarities with Canadian codes. The plastic boxes I use here have a metal tab running from the bonding screw to the screw hole where your switch would be screwed into, carrying the bond to the metallic parts of the switch. Sometimes my customers ask me to install a dimmer switch, which has a bonding wire, so I just put it directly under one of the bonding screws, no need for a longer bonding wire... but I do understand your reason for wanting a longer bonding wire left in the box. Thanks for watching.
Yes, I agree. Also to note, insulation should be in the box but not more than a quarter inch? And all wires should be at least 6 inches long from the back of the box if I remember correctly, for American NEC anyways, right?
The loops are just not necessary and look sloppy. In all my years and tens of thousands of outlet make ups, have never needed extra length of wire. Imagine the cost of copper being wasted on a large house. Waste of time also. I can only imagine what a 3 or 4 gang switch would look like. Sorry but that is my opinion..You picked the best trade out there and I am happy for you in that respect. Plastic boxes are far quicker but maybe they don't allow them up north.
So glad UK electrics and the standard code of practice are so much safer and better. No rubber grommets in back box entries, the earth screws should be terminal type relying on a screw clamp for fixing not wedged under a screw head, no earth sleeving, never twist multiple cores together as it work hardens the copper and twist nuts should be banned! The stripping tool was about the only impressive item
There is at least one in every video like this. Believe me. We here in north america know how superior your UK codes are (or how superior you all think they are). How could we not know when there is an army of commenters just like you?
This is perfect! I've actually been looking for a good video showing how the Pro's do it and finally found it! Thanks for the help! Looking forward to more videos!
How so? Should I be using a level for my wires, maybe a tape measure to make sure exactly 150mm of wire is sticking out of the box? If you've ever been a contractor you know that you need to do a good job and in a timely manner... there's no time to be finicky about little things.
@@energyoneelectric Well apparently anything goes for our brothers up north because we have standards for wire length, grounding, and box fill. It takes but a moment to ensure your wires are the proper length. There are quick tricks to do this. Thanks for the video!
I would recommend keeping at least one grounding conductor at same length as hot and neutrals. Some switches are now requiring grounding, usually related to dimming and/or smart switches.
Gonna get ya balls felt by the electrical governing bodies if you run cable like that in the UK !! Totally unnecessary coiled cables equate to resistance in the cables. They also need to be in a conduit in the wall if less than 50mm from the surface in the UK. Love the box though, well thought out and designed.
Every country has their own hangups. There is no reason to require conduit in the walls of residential construction. Interesting that the UK deems that a hill to die on. I wonder who on the code committee is related to a conduit manufacturer ;-)
1. Why not cut to length? For the reasons stated. In my neck of the woods (Canada, so literally neck of the woods) it's standard practice. I'm not sure I like the curly style, but that's a separate issue. 2. As for grommets - ?? That box has integral cable clamps that are intended for installation just as illustrated. Where are you writing from? Are grommets code-required there? And what sort of grommets? The grommets I was familiar with as an electronics guy are unlike the hard plastic grommets I use as an electician, but both fit in round holes and neither strain-relieves the cable. Are you actually talking about a connector like a 40-40 or something? Really curious to know what's normal where you are.
Glad you noticed the strippers! Since I discovered them a few years ago they're now the only ones I use for stripping nmd cable. In the near future I am planning to do a tool review video on these strippers, but in the meantime here's a link where you can check them out. amzn.to/3B87QjF
Just an intense DYI'er here... But, small details add up to far fewer years-down-the-road issues. When possible, I *_always_* point wire nuts and such upwards. This keeps them from acting like buckets collecting drywall dust, sawdust, and decades of crap over the years. Should there be a plumbing, roofing, or other such leak/spill, the upwards orientated wire nuts won't act as cups to retain whatever it is that shouldn't have been there in the first place.
Don't cut the bonding wires or ground wires. That was the old method when switches were dumb. Now a days most switches are smart switches and they need ground and neutral wires in addition to the power wire and load wire.
You can keep 1 bonding wire uncut if you want, but dimmers and motion switches come with bonding wire attached to the switch so it can easily be put under a bonding screw.
Hmm. No way you could get away with that here. First your ground must be attached to your yoke of the device. Switch or not it has metal on it. Service loop? I guess if the sheetrockers are that bad. If the wires are in the back of the box and they tear up your wires using the Dremel method, make them pay for rewiring the house. Take down the sheet rock and repair it. Put your " loop" above or below the floor/ ceiling line. If you can't pull that in, you are using the wrong staples. Good sheetrockers can measure and precut holes for devices.
Most of the electricians I've worked with have stapled the romex down hard. I've failed an inspection because my romex wasn't secured to the satisfaction of the inspector (one whack with the hammer satisfied him, tho).
Unfortunately some drywallers can be that bad. It's not common but on a few occasions I needed to pull in some extra wire due to damage. One drywaller years ago actually routed out a chunk of a live temporary receptacle.. along with cutting an alarm wire and putting a hole in the shower plumbing. That service loop is my insurance policy for those situations.. and it's completely legal here in Canada.
Thank you. You know, in a rare occasion where sometimes the customer wants to move a receptacle or switch over a stud space or higher or lower a bit that service loop can be a life saver for that extra few inches you may need.
@@energyoneelectric it’s definitely a good option to have if you can and your inspector is cool. I’m in New England and it’s a crap shoot. Some inspectors want bushings on everything. No way around it.
This would not pass code in America. I also cringed watching You cut the ground wires. In a plastic box there would be no way to ground the switch. In a Metal box even though you are grounding the box if you don't ground the switch directly they require grounding clips to attach the switch to the box. And greenies are required or you also fail.
The plastic boxes I use in Canada have a metal bonding tab from the bonding screw up to the screw hole where the switch secures. Also the Eaton switches I use don't have a bonding screw. But definitely follow your local electrical codes.
That's a pretty general statement. What specifically is incorrect and unsafe? Are you from America and assume that everyone else on RU-vid is too? If what I've shown you doesn't meet your local electrical code then make tweaks to make sure it does. But if what I'm doing is incorrect in my region then every job I do should be failing. What passes inspection in my Country may not pass in yours. You are incorrect for making an accusation like that.
@@energyoneelectric I suppose at the end of the day, it’s all different where you are. We don’t leave service loops, and it’s beat into your head to make sure hose wires are all the way in the back of the box. This seems to be a Canadian thing, as I follow HomeReno Vision who is a Canadian and whenever I see electrical rough-ins in the background I’ve seen it before. I think you’ll find a lot of Americans calling it ugly. It also just doesn’t professional down here and I’m certain inspectors would complain.
That's weird I've seen plenty of guys put service loops idk what the hell your talking about. It's not a code violation and actually depending on your local they may require service loops in certain situations I like them because it helps the people who go after you especially if another trade (cough drywallers cough) come in and fuck things up you have extra to work with just in case. Fucking arm chair electricians you go and wire that shit then if doesn't looks good enough. It's a service loop dude you can only do so much to make it look "good" and plus this is resi you think he has the time for making it perfect hell I'm surprised he's even got the time to put service loops in the first place damn near a miracle I say. Go actually work one day on a job site and than come back to the conversation.
The bigger issue is how he grounded the box imo. You’re allowed 12” from your staple, that being said, here in MN, never seen “service loops” for anything outside of low volt. Also, no offense to this guy, but if this is what he considers neat, I would hate to see what he used to do.
I am a Master electrician and worked in the trade for 55 years. DO NOT COPY THIS INSTALLATION. I would fire him if he worked for me.Grounds are bad. Loops are bad. Just looking for trouble!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wow code violations you absolutely need your ground wire at a switch! Also all wires must be ae to be out of the box a min of 6" those grounds are now way to short! Not to mention its poor practice to install 2 wires under 1 screw like that and to not wrap the wire around the screw.
You don't need to wrap the wire around the screw. There are shoulders on either side of the ground screws to provide a channel and ensure the wires stay in place. It is allowed under Canadian code and is common practise. It could be that the ground screw design is different where you are.
NEUTRALS WILL NEVER BE PULLED OUT AGAIN? this guy has NEVER worked on a smarthome! Every switch needs a NEUTRAL AND GROUND! This is for 1990s electricans!
I understand certain switches need neutrals and grounds...in which case you can pull out the neutral and splice onto it, and you can put your ground directly under the bonding screw. Not a big problem as some of you make it out to be.
@@energyoneelectric Oh, I see, fair enough. It's not code here in NZ hence don't encounter it too often. We regularly use existing cables as draw lines for running controller cables etc
You gotta love when guys start throwing out years of experience.. like it has a lot of weight. I've met electricians who have done industrial or commercial work all their life, but can't wire a house or understand basic circuitry. Bending pipe for 20 years makes you a phenomenal pipe bender, that's it. Saying my work looks like crap because you have 20 years experience doesn't bother me much.. what matters more to me is the local electrical inspectors who have told me that I do some of the cleanest work.
OCD is strong here. All very good, but not the only way to be sure. More "pros" need to know this, and not proselytize their way as the only way as long as it's code compliant.
