Let's do another historical analysis of a city and castle from the Elder Scrolls Oblivion and see how realistic it is, this time we look at the city SKINGRAD! Awesome Hoodies by Shadiversity: teespring.com/stores/shadiver...
Your enthusiasm for castles is absolutely infectious! I never thought I would sit through half an hour of dissecting fictional castles, but you made it fascinating.
historical castles sometimes didn't put battlements on both sides because they didn't want the attackers taking control of the walls and using the battlements against them.
If the attackers had taken control of all the battlements in your castle then you're pretty fucked anyway. Only last reasonable defensive spot is the castle itself, or the Keep... If you can even get to it.
>If the attackers had taken control of all the battlements in your castle then you're pretty fucked anyway That's not even remotely true at all. Most castles have 2-4 different lines of defense, if the outer walls fall you just fall back deeper inside. For example in the Battle of Jaffa during the 3rd crusade, the crusaders left behind to defend the castle were able to hold out for weeks in the keep after the outer city walls fell to the Saracens until reinforcements finally arrived and saved the city. Walls are breached all the time, that is why most castles are sectioned off, so you can continue to defend. It's also why they don't but defenses on both sides, so like I said, when they are captured they cant be used to fire at your new positions
Yeah, I had totally neglected the fact that any real castle had multiple internal baileys with their own ways to get on top of the defending walls, not accessible by the other baileys if such one gets taken over. My bad, I definitely knew better than what I had said. Thanks for reminding me.
Indeed. A good example is Carcassone, where they go one step further - gatehouse above the outer wall (there is a bit of room, about the size of a football (soccer) field and then a drawbridge and a second wall) doesn't even have a wall on the inside. Not great for people with vertigo :-) But if the enemy takes the outer wall you can easily shoot at them from the inside, they have no cover.
It absolutely is. When I first played Oblivion, I wasn't astonished by Imperial City, frankly, I didn't like it. But then I decided to go to trip and went south-west. And Skingrad was the WOOOOW! moment of the entire game for me. The reason why I spent hundreds of hours in the game.
Not only is it one of the most accurate medieval cities in games but it is home to the best house you can buy in oblivion along with lovely scenery and great quests.
@@BillyBob-ti2fzahh, but you can get infinite gold if you help the royal dude who turns you into a vampire when you help his wife. It's a glitch but he continuously pays you everytime you speak to him.
I think I remember reading somewhere that skingrad was one of the designers' pet project. I also remember a line in the game mentioning that someone thought that skingrad was unconquerable, so it was clearly designed to be an impressive fortress.
Not only is it beautiful in terms of a defensible kinda way, it's beautiful in an aesthetic way. I've seen too many castles in fiction that are just blank stone walls with no features and barely any windows. If a castle can be as defensible as it can be, while still looking embellished and beautiful, it gets all my respect.
I didn't think I would wake up today and watch a 30 minute review of a video game's city and castle and it's defensive and realistic qualities, simply because it was in my recommended videos; but here I am.
It absolutely is. When I first played Oblivion, I wasn't astonished by Imperial City, frankly, I didn't like it. But then I decided to go to trip and went south-west. And Skingrad was the WOOOOW! moment of the entire game for me. The reason why I spent hundreds of hours in the game.
came looking for this. I'm not a flag expert but this flagpole looks oddly thin for such a heavy flag. And the wind should be quite strong to raise it that much
As an engineer, you won't believe how many impossible designs architects will give us. And how much they'll cry when we toss it back and tell them to give us something actually feasible to work with.
Yesterday my engieneer mom recive a pretty well good looking roman style house but just toss it back because it have a freacking HUGE round balcony extended out. My mom later on explain that big silly things need COLUMNS otherwise it will simply colapse probably killing the constructors even after is finished.
I notice that you didn't mention the total control Skingrad has on one of the major roads into the city, any approaching army would have to contend with Archers shooting them from 3 or 4 sides, including the elevated bridge.
It'd also make the city a great trading hub for Cyrodiil. While technically the Imperial City is the political center of trading in Cyrodiil, there are no roads that force you to travel through the city to get to the other side. Before Kvatch was destroyed, merchants, traders, and other people looking to buy, sell, and do trade, had to go through Skingrad, doing whatever business they could there, and move onto the next city, such as Kvatch, do the same there, and go down to the Gold Coast where Anvil is, the largest port city in Cyrodiil, obviously a great place to get unique materials there without having to deal with import costs, such as fish, and other sea-based trading goods. Skingrad really did it right with this one, not only is it more defended than most cities (Or defended communes) in Oblivion, it got its location perfect. Not only with the location of the castle, but the location of the city itself. Putting a super defended structure on a main road to 2 other cities is basically like putting a giant super defended gatehouse on the road, essentially separating the these 3 cities (Anvil, Kvatch and Skingrad) from the rest of Cyrodiil. Of course you can just go through the woods, but good luck getting siege equipment through all that dense forest. Forget about chopping the trees down, once you get close enough to Skingrad to try to pass it, you'll get shot down from defenders on the wall.
On, come on, Markarth is farthest from being called "city" as possible, can easily be accessed of boulderd from mountains around. Nowhere near "safest". And they keep the Forsworn King at the mine, and the Forsworn are killing people on the street, and guards just tell not to poke your nose in it! Talk about safety...
@@DZ-1987 Markarth is not a Nordic settlement. Its a dwarven ruin that's been repurposed. And what you see is only perhaps 40 percent of the original settlement size, the other 60 is deep underground. Understone keep probably isn't an actual keep, its just been repurposed into one for convenience because it is the main entrance to the main dwarven ruins but also because it is the only place to put the keep. You could go lower, and lose your Jarl and all your men to attrition against the dwarven constructs.
Now, the castles of Morrowind would be some of the worst. Some, like Buckmoth and Moonmoth, I think they're only where they are for political reasons, not defense. And many city walls are clearly designed more to keep out animals, and some bandits, not armies. And some places don't even have walls. Does make me wonder what you think of such places like Sadrith Mora and other Telvanni cities, with mushroom towers, and Vivec, with its cantons.
The city of Vivec's cantons seem very defensive to me, since you have to cross a bridge to each part of the city and each canton has small walls to duck behind. Not to mention the ruler of it is a literal god. Anyone attacking it would have to go through Vivec, the god himself. Telvanni cities would be hindered by walls because the Telvanni are a people of fantastic magical power. They're essentially the Mage's Guild on steroids and walls would get in the way of their spell-flinging. You don't need to hold off attackers would you can just destroy the whole army in a few spells. The real sadness is Balmora which looks nice but which is pretty much totally undefended. It's the seat of one of the Great Houses yet its walls have gaping holes with no doorways. The only good things about it is that it is built out of chokepoints, including the bridges that separate the two halves of the city but also including the densely urban nature of the city meaning moving from the center to the outer portions requires you to squeeze through alleys. For all intents and purposes, a city of that political importance should be quite large but it's barely greater in size than Seyda Neen... I assume that's just because of hardware limitations. On the bright side, Balmora has an imperial garrison just outside of town to draw fire or provide flanking support.
I was unsure if you were saying having no windows on the castle was an odd thing or not but the count of Skingrad is a vampire and is very secretive due to this. In addition to that there is the Vampires weakness to sunlight. That may have influenced why there are no windows in the castle.
Then, sealed window space could be seen, quite a disadavantage, since those would be weak points, which no one in the castle could observe. So unlikely how it is you could sent people to chisel seals away. Which since the castle is quite inconquerable and that would be one point of possible entrance, it is worth to consider. If done with proper caution, in times when no one could be there to listen, it would make an entrance for assasin, which in one night, he could dispose quietly all of those peasants who entered the castle for shelter. Maybe even the count himself. Furthermore there is no plastering under which you could hide its existence, only bricks.
It'd work well in Cyrodill and perhaps in real life. But I felt slightly disappointed architectural defenses in TES don't reflect things like the levitate, chameleon/invisibility, frenzy detect life and night eye spells existing. The bulk of a sieging army might be halted by walls and have reason to target gatehouses, but the same cannot be said for battle mages. The whole point of an attack might be to draw a key number of areas to defend one section of a wall without cover from above and then have one battlemage cast one area affect frenzy spell while the attacking army retreats; it'd keep most of the army intact and either kill defenders or completely demoralise and traumatise survivors.
@@dennisthemenace3695 the elder scrolls verse has cannon tho they dont make that obvious on the game Also not everyone can use magi either because they dont have the talent or just hate it due to the stigma it Caries etc.
@Impaleification if I remember right there was a mage that made 8K soldier be able to fly so just 1 mage can make an army fly as long as they are strong enough
Dan Slash yup, he'd whisper for you to come to him and if you don't he would slowly follow you through out the entire city. it also had the dark brotherhood mission with a murder mansion, necromancers, and a vampire count. wierd creepy city
It absolutely is. When I first played Oblivion, I wasn't astonished by Imperial City, frankly, I didn't like it. But then I decided to go to trip and went south-west. And Skingrad was the WOOOOW! moment of the entire game for me. The reason why I spent hundreds of hours in the game.
It is always strange to discover that the magnificent, enormous city I loved to explore as a child is actually a twenty-odd houses village. However, the video Shad came up with is really very interesting and must have needed a great amount of work. Thanks a lot!
When I first played Oblivion, I wasn't astonished by Imperial City, frankly, I didn't like it. But then I decided to go to trip and went south-west. And Skingrad was the WOOOOW! moment of the entire game for me. The reason why I spent hundreds of hours in the game.
All the time I had to go trough Skingrad when travelling on the main road, I feared that they would lock both gates and start loosing arrows on my head from those two flanking walls...
I doubt Skingard is dangerous on the outside (I doubt its been sieged even once) Now if they actually take care of the internal problems (vampires, assassins, crazy people) then that place would be something immigrants would go to
@@christiandauz3742 crazy people yes assassin's yes vampires I don't know about that don't even syar the count I meet him a chill cool guy a recluse but nice.
The moment I entered Skingrad again on my 113452th playthrough of Oblivion, I immediately thought to myself "Shadiversity MUST'VE made a video about this place" and of course, you had! The whole place has such a great medieval feel to it I just KNEW it'd be right up your alley! The defensive layout of the city, the walls, the castle... whoever it was at Bethesda that designed Skingrad, they knew a thing or two about what an actual walled city looked like. It's not all fantasy, but also some real medieval design involved.
I remember when I first went to see the Count of Skingrad (forget his name) in the Mages quest. I thought, this castle is so freaking hard to get to, why? Oh yeah, really hard to lay siege to it.
I noticed two quick things when you were talking about the chimneys which I think add a few points. 1) They're taller than the rooftop which is good as that keeps them in the wind which means there's a low pressure zone that draws the smoke up. 2) The roofs themselves are heavily sloped which is great for keeping the snow from piling up and potentially collapsing them in the winter. It's also how thatch is supposed to be but the city doesn't use thatch that I noticed other than the ubiquitous stable that every city has. I also think the castle, its location on the hill and style are more of a homage to Romanian castles like Corvin which has similar architecture (especially in the towers) and a solid stone bridge. It also has a small stream flowing by but on the opposite side as well. And those familiar with certain rumors around Skingrad might see why I'm inclined to think so.
*Shadiversity* *checklist:* Meticulations ✔️ Battlement ✔️ Meticulation ✔️ Gatehouse with double gate ✔️ Stone arches Sections of walls ✔️ Meticulations ✔️ Divided city✔️ Big big merlons with holes ✔️ Meticulations
Skingrad was always my favorite for both the layout and aesthetics. I've always absolutely loved the main road going down the center. The whole city is awesome.
This was a really interesting analysis. Very happy to have found this channel; now I'll have to check out the rest of it. Looking forward to see more of this brilliance!
You should totally do a review of Kaer Trolde from the Witcher 3, it's a keep located on Skeliga. It would make for an interesting video cuz it sits on the cliffs overlooking the port and it has a narrow path leading up to it with multiple gate houses
I just discovered the Sadiversity yesterday, and I love it. The amount of study and work he puts into these videos is amazing. To say nothing about the presentation, teaching skills and excitement. I love this.
Probably worth considering the political climate at the time the game is set; the city is in the heartland of the Empire, which controls the entire continent, so there’s probably no one around that poses an actual threat (unless I’m mistaken, the Aldmeri Dominion doesn’t rise to prominence until well after the time the game is set), so they’ve probably grown complacent/lax with maintaining the outside land, allowing trees to start encroaching once more.
This city is the first thing I thought of when I saw your significantly more recent Motte and Bailey video. The second I saw the example image in the thumbnail I *instantly* thought of this. Skingrad is my absolute favourite fantasy city, it always has been since the time I first saw it.
Hey, Shad. Love watching your videos. I noticed a lot of the details you did when I first played Oblivion. Skingrad was always one of my favorite cities. If you spoke with the Count of Skingrad, he talks some serious shit about anyone ever attempting to assault his city and keep. He is actually a vampire, is something like 400 years old, and he actually had input into its design, if I remember the lore correctly. He almost dares anyone to challenge him, and has incredible confidence in his city's defenses. Seems only appropriate, and I noticed the extended layout of the approach to the actual castle keep. I found a way to sneak up to the road and bypass the city, but it had to be done one foot, in one spot, and a horse couldn't traverse it. Considering the scope of the cities planned for Elder Scrolls 6, I really hope the modelers and quest designers at Bethesda watch some of your videos, take notes, and really go all-out on the cities and keeps, as well as the accompanying conflicts/quests to showcase their efficacy. Keep up the great work. Few people who take the time to break down castle design, and intellectually bitch-slap people for improper use of the term tabard.
With most video games having down-sized cities/castles, how about going the other way and looking at Lothric Castle from Dark Souls 3. Granted, it's hard to look at the context of location with the world being warped as it is and Lothric being elevated. But there is so much there, that you could go on for hours.
Best reason for no pull up-bridge: People in the city will protest against such a the bridge. Now, the castle cannot close itself, people want a permanent and garanteed access to it.
Yeah, you're right. Because this is a city after all, not just a castle. There are residents living in the city who would like to have permenant access to their homes and/or businesses so making a drawbridge may be inconvenient. Skingrad is also a big exporter, for wine in particular, so they'll probably also want easy access for traders and horse carts carrying their products; A drawbridge would limit how wide a road into the city can be (for reasons relating to the bridge's structural integrity), making things inconvenient if you've got a lot of larger objects, like horse carts, trying to come and go because they'd have to go single file.
tactically wise, i believe the portcullis that is missing on the bridge gate house, was meant to funnel them towards that direction, since it was "less guarded"
Why not put battlements on those bridges as well they would be a great place to fire down at people approaching the city from the road on that side and being so high looks like you could easily fire with enough range to hit people attacking the gate on that side of the city too. Sure the attackers might just opt to attack the city from the other side in that case but then it's not necessarily a bad thing to funnel attackers into targeting a single entrance you can predict in advance either.
As a fan of medieval history, culture, etc., these videos are really nice to watch and learn from. More so now, given I want to try my hand at making my own fantasy story in the future.
ya keep doing oblivion and skyrim castle but none of the cool castles in morrowind. there are some super legit ones. - ya can walk through all the walls and get up all the towers as useless as it is, but its doable.
@Shadiversity ermergerd. ya need to fix this there was so much legit stuff you could do in this game. in one of the add ons you actually would help building up a small town, a mine and a castle for that town. there are 3 factions, where you can join, become the boss off eventually and then they build a stronghold for you in a place. Once you become the boss of one of these factions and need to find a location to build your new base, basically. they are all really cool - but the one for House Hlaalu, i always liked best - is literally a small castle. like a small estate/manor surrounded by a small wall etc and had a small inner area and what not. here an picture of House Hlaalu's Stronghold: images.uesp.net//4/45/MW-place-RethanManor.jpg and it wont just pop up or what. no. you need to help build it - takes ingame days to finish it and what not.
Shad: "It doesn't mean, it couldn't be improved" Me: "Like doors on the Gatehouse!? What is the Point in those wonderful machicolations, if you can't get to them?!!!"
Hey Shad, I've watched a lot of your videos and they are all phenomenal. I found your channel through Tabletop Time and was wondering if Table Top Time is ever going to return. Will it or not??? Thanks for reading!
I actually found about Jazza's channel (I had never been even particularly interested in drawing but after watching a few of his tutorials I picked it up and I'm really enjoying it now) through your channel and then through Tabletop time. By the way, I really like your cogent roleplay system, it is sort of the thing we always wanted to play with a couple of friends. The only trouble is we are now each in a different city, even a different country at the moment (Europe's reasonably small, but still), but I hope I will be able to test it one day. So thanks for creating it and making it available for free!
Hey Shad, any chance in the future of a Top 5 or so list of your favorite movie/tv/video game castles and their highlights? Just recently started watching your castle reviews and they are absolutely FASCINATING!
Haven't started the video yet but I'm pretty excited. I know it's probably not because of that this video was created, but I did once comment about how I'd love to see a review of Skingrad. It was always my favourite city in Oblivion. So yeah, I'm officially excited.
Castle Wolfenstein. Its RTCW version in both Missions one through three and the final 2 missions. Its Wolfenstein 2009 version The castle-thing in The New Order is modified for WW2 era defenses.
I think Skallagrim covered some of the glaring stuff in Skyrim. The weapons are generally too broad in shape with finicky bits towards the guard, the materials are too fantasy, and armour is too heavy. It's just not realistic without some mods.
Shadiversity can you come up with an idea of why they took weapons are better I've heard enough about people acting at them and saying well they would suck in real life try to explain the magic of why they would be better try to explain the magic behind that I want to see your take on it
Fredegar i dont think stone wals are designed to go against daedric siegecraft, remember they basically oppened a door infront of the city and used the wolfhead ram to open the gate, from there it was basically game over
Well as explained, the Daedric Siege Crawler basically rammed the Walls thus destroying it. There literally is only two open Empty areas once inside the town that you have to go thru, In order to get to the castle (Before the Church Tower was Destoryed, Which later blocked off the path). The Siege Crawler shot out fire at Citizens and Soldiers, While Daedra were dispatched and even Mythic Dawn members conjuring more daedra into the city. The rest of the Soldiers would regroup outside the wall trying to fight the Oblivion portal while the town was underfire. A city with no soldiers to defend it (Since all other soldiers are dead or focused on the outside Portal) Will fall quickly.
This 'chaotic balance' you mentioned is a thing that really pleases me when it comes to structures. I love old medieval villages, towns and cities in for example Italy, the amount of happiness I feel when seeing that kind of jumbled-yet-orderly mess may well be on the same level as machicolations do for you.
