My Recommendation: A program that allows a user to make a complete theme including window decorations and everything. This would give end users a ton of freedom! Also, take a look at the new Zelda Tears of The Kingdom game. They pushed it back repeatedly to deliver it as polished as it could be.Don't be afraid to push it back.
this comment somehow reminds me of pre-facebook social network called "friendster" where they allow users to upload their own css to (almost) fully customize the user's profile page which ended up in huge performance instability and security issues.
KWin HDR support is going to be huge in Plasma 6. I expect a lot of Linux gamers to switch to KDE Plasma just for that, and I can't wait for it myself.
One of the coolest things about general open source community is the possibility for videos like this. Direct communication between the community and the developers. It's great to see.
I just swapped to an AMD card, and even if the blur issues got fixed my Nvidia experience was SO much worse than what I currently have with AMD.
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I would like KDE to have a better (more usable and better looking) task switcher. I'm using one I wrote myself in QML (maybe I will make it publishable), to have something more usable (subjective) than the default one, but the task switcher is a thing people see right away when they start using KDE. Especially people frustrated from the MacOS task switcher might appreciate something that would really stand out.
I think a general purpose plasma 6 preview would be a good idea. Not one packaged by the distros but one packaged in PPAs and other testing repositories.
Both is good. I still would prefer to be able to test a distro on a live usb or in a VM so KDE Neon is great for me. But having the option to try out the newest features to see how well integrated it is on your favorite distro definitely has its benefits.
Its really amazing to see you together... we can make the Linux world bigger....Unity from different parts of the world needed to raise voice for Foss..
Really cool to see this Video. "The Linux Experiment" ist one of my most watched channel und I also love your channel, so perfect collab! Also a lot of important topics where covered. I'm really looking forward to a great plasma 6.
Awesome collab! Maybe I'm delusional but I really think KDE Plasma will be the future of Linux desktops. There is so much progress and I feel like the devs go in the right direction.
@@neko6803GTK/Gnome really infuriates me since they have so many ways to improve and they do the bare minimum or nothing at all. They took 18 years to implement a file chooser/picker with thumbnails. Something that was incredibly essential and yet they took forever to implement it, it might not sound like a big deal to some but it really is since it is making something that you can do on Windows very easily a pain in the arse on GTK/Gnome. KDE Plasma is so much better and has a lot more quality of life features like these.
And the way of how widespread it is, I wouldn't be surprised if it is one of the reasons if not the main reason why GNU/Linux isn't more popular. Something as simple (but essential, specially if you have a lot of files) as not having thumbnails on file picker will REALLY deter people.
Thanks for the one-on-one! I watch both of you all the time, and it's great that both of you got the chance to talk to each other and make KDE even better!
Thanks for all the hard work you and the KDE team have been putting on the next big release! Also, great to see Nick here as well! It'd be nice to see you you presenting the KDE news on Nick's page sometime just for fun
If the user of a computer system does not know if they want a double click or not then that is really on them and their level of knowledge. Developers can't go to someone's house and set up the OS for them and give them a power-point presentation and call them every Tuesday with neat tips and tricks. it's 2023. It's choosing a double click not installing Arch.@@gragogflying-anvil3605
Jumping into the discussion at 4:06 I think a great addition would be the ability to drag and reorder icons in the system tray area, both on the panel and in the status and notifications frame. I agree about replicating the apple dock too. I tried the floating panel, but the way it unfloats breaks the look and while it looks good, having windows go behind the panel to prevent the defloating isn't always practicle.
I never really got peoples issue with that, what's the issue with it unfloating when you have a full screen window? It makes full screen windows feel more full and the desktop feel more open. Admittedly I don't like it as much on desktops, but on my laptop it seems perfectly natural. (I think that likely has something to do with 1 the length of the bar overall and 2 nit having one floating and one full panel visible simultaneously.)
@@felixjohnson3874 I just don't like it changing appearance is all. When I have the floating dock turned on, I'd like to see the floating dock, but since I almost always have something open and maximised, or even the slightest touch from a window defloats it, I basically never get to see it in its floating form. The option might as well not exist. Also when it defloats, it gains extra internal padding which makes it look marginally not as good than if I had floating turned off fully. What I'd like is actually the option to have windows go behind it (again because I like how it looks) but with the ability to pad out the bottom of the window, so UI elements aren't obstructed by the dock. In things like a browser where you don't have anything at the bottom of the window, it looks really, really good. It's just in programs that do have some buttons or status bars down there that I wish wouldn't be overlapped with by the dock, and if that was fixed I could easily see myself using the floating dock all the time.
I'm super excited for Plasma 6 ^.^ Fell in love with KDE as soon as I switched from Windows to Kubuntu a few months ago and I can't wait to tinker around with the stuff you guys improved :3 So I hope that installing/updating will be noob proof so I don't fuck up my system XD
30:15 Freedesktop actually works on unified accent colors now. If they implement that, having unified light/dark theme+accent color without tinkering would be good enough for me to consider my desktop consistent.
Kde with the right gtk theme can be pretty damn consistent. It'll never be "perfect" but some applications just flat out wouldn't feel right with the same design as other applications and having unique design elements can make them easier to quickly and subconsciously identify. (I'm not saying they would be wearing camo, but it would take a bit more mental energy) Having many OS tools well integrated, most software fairly well integrated, and a handful that are close enough is probably best IMO. now if only gtk themes actually applied through flatpaks. (Well, that and the minor snafu of gnome actively snuffing out theming)
Yeah the flatpak automatic theme detection works half the time and ofc not all themes are present as flatpaks. I personally just give all flatpaks read permission to my ~/.local/share/themes through Flatseal and everything works good enough.@@felixjohnson3874
I can't wait for Plasma 6 it's will be exciting update and this video increases that excitement. But I would prefer to give developers time to do whatever they want.
Nicco, I've watched a few of your videos, but aside from not really liking the KDE desktop environment, I thought it was cool hearing a few things coming straigh from the source, with you being a long term contributor of the project. But watching you discussing the PRODUCT with Nick (that most of us know a little longer) that has professional experience as a Product Manager, and being a content producer about Linux having to research and use a lot of software in order to produce his content, and (running out of breath here) that is also a long term user of KDE is absolutely awesome! I'm definetely more interest in keeping up with the development and the discussions around Plasma 6. Thank you!
What I would like from plasma 6 is having the ability of re arranging the system tray icons like the way windows does from windows 7 up to 10. Better Wayland support and bug fixes on the global menu and more options on it when using a macOS layout. Also like Nick said , having a proper dock to use when having a macOS layout. The floating panel works but it lacks some functionality from a proper dock. So hope you consider a proper plasma dock that works both on x11 and Wayland. ❤
The good thing about Linux Desktops is, there is no competition. I mean, some users may think so but at least developer wise it is just fun and learning from each other.
One thing that I want to point out that you guys (and lots of other desktops) do correctly is not removing options that aren't options. Two examples: Today, I wanted to make a car at work a bit less annoying, because it always beeps when you go over the speed limit, immediately, and if it's a "dangerous situation". I wanted to turn off the speed limit thing - but the switch-style button didn't do anything. It just stayed on. You could turn off danger warnings or everything, but just speed warnings was impossible. And a few months ago I was tasked to find a way to let users change their windows password on a windows remote session server that didn't involve pressing ctrl alt del - and after kicking through layers of menus i found a greyed out text field with a notice to use ctrl alt del.
I wish Plasma 6 to have good and legible fonts with good contrast, not washed out grey on grey. And good wayland nvidia stability. Maybe a good backup or snapshot app? The rest is cosmetic. Release dates: March as Ubuntu and Fedora release in April 😊
Thank you for the insight,, i love KDE i use it every day and refuse to use any other desktops. Love to tinker whit the look and feel so it's my perfect fit.
I think the current theme is a bit outdated, especially when compared to what you get in GNOME. The simple solution in my opinion would be to look at a theme that directly tries to modernize the Breeze theme, such as Lightly, and try to officially implement it. Also, the addition of proper Dock functionality would be great, as mentioned in the video. Even better, giving the users the choice between a Windows-style and MacOS-style layout during setup would make experience much more user-friendly.
Adwaita looks horrible. The people who like Breeze would never like anything "more modern" like Adwaita. Lightly is a good improvement on Breeze, but it's still ultimately Breeze.
@@mckendrick7672 Lightly is, in my opinion, what the Breeze theme should evolve into. It's got rounded corners, adds more blur, and removes the horrible coloured outlines around every widget.
@@maikeru6158 I think adding Latte's functionalities to the default panel little-by-little is more sustainable than supporting two completely different panel/dock applications.
25:55 True that. Not having a fixed release schedule kinda gives people the impression that the development is disorganised and just going with the flow. Especially some of my acquaintances thinks that Plasma is stagnated because relative to GNOME or Windows, there's not many big number or UI changes. And when asked community is like "I don't know. Maybe this year or next?" is how it goes. Most users don't care about the 5.XX release because that's like no change at all.
If you compare Gnome 45 to 40, the UI changes little, too. Most work goes into details. I guess Plasma 6.0 won't bring much new, "exciting" stuff, either. Won't be like Windows 11's "let's focus on making a new taskbar so the user can see this is a whole new version at a glance".
As someone who has basically only used KDE during their time with Linux, a Windows 11 daily drive challenge sounds like a lot of fun! I have an extra SSD laying around so maybe I'll give it a shot! I've never actually truly daily driven Windows in my life, since I grew up with MacOS and later moved to Linux.
The current KDE Plasma on Devuan still have the same issue on adding color profile (System Settings - Color Correction) to a display device as an ordinary user. A workaround is to manually add the icc profile to the directory where all the icc profiles are as root. Using GUI, it cannot work due to permission issue. Searching about the problem tells me its been a problem for a long time even on other distro. Maybe when all desktop users make use of color profiles, this could be solved a long time ago but only a few desktop users are aware of color management. Looking forward for KDE Plasma 6, can't wait to use it. Thank you for all the effort.
I'd like to see a change in the color options to "color from wallpaper" since it would set it apart from other operating systems and make your system feel more tailored to your requirements. But who knows, that may be a touch too niche
11:24 A screenshot of Microsoft committing the sin of false advertising. We all know KDE Plasma is the real simple by default and powerful by choice desktop!
@randomness0 I agree. You could also say that about macOS too, and to a much greater degree. If you want macOS, you're forced onto hardware you may not like and for software, the same is true for now; you are currently forced onto software you may not like.
Damn, Nick really hit Plasma 5 in the pre-update multi-monitor support 💀 As a long time multihead plasma user, still my favorite Plasma update! 😸 Here's to that changing with Plasma 6!
kde plasma is the best. some great new features i can think of is lots of more full fledged themes that make it look like garuda dragonized, xero linux, setting reset option in case users goof up anything, simple settings mode, advanced settings mode, maybe also a utility to make my own theme, customizable shadows behind windows so that one can make out the windows in front are prominant, for dark black theme sometimes windows are so black that cannot make out which window is where because theres too much blackness especially for monitors with less gamma. keep up the great work.
Nicola, one feature that would be awesome to have in plasma, that i already mentionned to you in a comment that would make plasma show it's capabilities would be a button in the configuration that will: Minimize the configuration panel and freeze the rest of the screen with the other windows opened widgets etc. And that when you hover over something in the windows it will highlight it and if you click it, it will de freeze and open a configuration panel where it shows only all the options to configure what you clicked in the configuration panel something like it was the ? Button in old Os that when clicked ando hover over something it would give you information about it. This would spotlight so much things of plasma that are not known by the user... And would alow to filtrate. What you are looking for.
What I hope for Plasma 6 under Qt 6 is to get rid of the gazillion issues with Wayland. Some of witch Qt 5 has marked as "can't be bothered to be fixed".
Great Vblog. My wish is optional FINGER FRIENDLY menus perhaps vertical icons - ideograms, like the Vivaldi browser vertical bar has, with nested sub menus, resizable to each finger size (and screen sensitivity) that would replace that menu. And perhaps add the Steam Deck virtual keyboard as the default, or at least as an option. An or a special plasma 6 for tablets (with special love for handhelds, Steam Deck in particular) And I think that the DOCK must be HIDDEN by default, as a difference with other desktops (I always set up the menu bar and docks (panel or latte) when I used them this way). A watch sphere 0-100% day time 0-24, being half the sphere 12 hours, and adding the internet hour - in beats with CET 0 as 0 or a new 0-1000 / day GMT (or other) internet time based and be able to use it in dual /triple mode, internet 0-1000 / local 0-1000 / local 0-24 sphere would be nice. And a KDE watch OS, LTE and BT, with some cheap watch hardware with NFC payments, that would help KDE to fund itself, would be also a great thing to have. As there is a new Russian mobile OS KDE based, that will increase KDE mobile use and contributions, sell also a KDE "neon" phone for the rest of the world, with much better performance than the Pine64 ones, with good SoC and good prices as 100 - 200 Android devices, perhaps refurbishing some "old" model with not good luck on the market.
For me, when I came over from Windows 7/8, I first tried Mint Cinnamon, because it had the same classic paradigm. However, when I saw KDE Plasma 5 while messing with OpenSUSE, I was hooked. I lived with every version, buggy or not, because to me, it's the most professional looking desktop there is, and ideal for users that like to customise their work flow. It's everything that I hoped Windows would become after XP, but never did.I've been happy with the Breeze light and dark themes. I'd like to see KDE retain what is best about it and not change for the sake of change. I use KDE Plasma for production and leisure, on desktop and laptop, and wouldn't like to have to switch if it starts to deviate from what sets it apart. For instance, I didn't like the changes to the "kickoff" menu a while back and use the old one via a user maintained fork. Try new looks of course, like the floating task bar you mention, but it's good we will have the option to keep the one we are used to also.
I like the flatness of the breeze, just would like darker breeze. something almost black, or changing shade of black.. oh and kde rocks, my favorite desktop enviroment..
I hope that Plasma 6 will be ready by 24.04. and I'm currently using Plasma 6 (Wayland) on Neon Experimental with a VM with RTX 3060 Ti. Looking good! Gonna test this out with gaming soon.
I spent 48hrs trying a lot of different DE's on Endeavour OS because I like it so much and want to stay here for the next 6 months to 1 year. I settled on KDE and that was with a lot of testing of Gnome, I3, XFCE etc and I made the right decision for me for sure. Plasma is beautiful and 10 times more stable than this time last year. I love it because it can be as polished and gorgeous or as bare bones as I want it to be. It can be as bare as XFCE but XFCE cannot be as polished as Plasma. Ultimately I want to move to just Arch and a tiling window manager but Arch based Endeavour OS and KDE is so good I am really happy with it. I'm looking forward to geeking out and becoming a KDE superuser for the first time lol.
Please consider ditching ubuntu as a base for neon as it doesn't ship pipewire and wayland fixes and force snaps 😅. Consider something more recent like Arch or Debian unstable. Neon as an immutable distro with flatpaks and a rolling base would be fantastic and it will even make neon very stable like steam os. No more breakage in kde on updates.
@@socvirnylestela5878But opensuse kde is not clean as kde neon or arch kde. I don't really like the bloat and look at vanilla os imutable with only essential apps no bloat and clean gnome experience.
Honestly, I think they should work on OpenSuse's Immutable KDE Desktop variant "Kalpa" (And rename it because those forced "K" names are horrible). Currently, only one person works on Kalpa and the Suse devs aren't really optimistic about it since it is still in Alpha. Kalpa could become Neon and provide a rock solid, stable rolling release testing distro, thanks to its immutable nature.
It's simply more logical to prioritize superior quality and commonly shared standards. Opting for improved standards and adhering to best practices consistently leads to superior outcomes.
Really looking forward to Plasma 6 and QT 6 improvements in performance and visually. Currently I already have floating panel as a setup along with double click, on Plasma 5.x. I'd really like to see much better fonts rendering, if that can be done, along with windows management and switching options with tighter integration on Wayland.
I love KDE, a feature I would like to see is the ability to easily add applications to the right click context menu, I would like to add the nvidia-settings app to make it more like what Im used to in Windows and its not an easy thing to do currently.
In early September 2023, Nate Graham published an update saying that they have a release date target for early February 2024. No exact day yet but that's the target. I like this, for one reason: the next [K]Ubuntu LTS release would be around the corner. Hopefully that's enough time to polish Plasma as much as possible (especially with regards to Wayland) so that Kubuntu and derivatives can start testing on a base fittingly solid enough for a LTS release. I also think we have enough features for now and would rather focus on polish. I honestly thought Kirigami was just a separate toolkit for mobile OSs. Excited to see that this is a framework for all screens, with a HIG. Makes more sense now why there's increased dependence on Kirigami in Plasma 6.
The main issue I have with KDE (Debian12) right now is that 200% scaling on 4K monitor is really not good, several artifacts (on fonts and even video playing) and overall the image is mushy, in clear contrast to Windows 10 on same PC/monitor which gives perfect sharp image at 200% scale. I use 200% scaling 100% of the time. It would think it would be easy to get a perfect scaling at 200%.
Double click by default is the best change. I accidentally click more often than I'd like to admit, and single click had me waiting for heavy applications to open all the way up on an accidental click.
Re: the KDE Apps vs Gnome apps ecosystems... I love KDE's Power-User apps, but I do also appreciate Gnome's "Do one thing and do it right" apps. I even use some of the KDE power-user apps (e.g. Kate) on my Mac! I think a good middle ground would be to have the apps be big power-user apps but default to a simplified view that acts as more of a "Do one thing and do it right" app. That way, you can open an app and do the thing, but then you can get into the weeds and do advanced tasks with little extra work.
16:25 Honestly you don't want your desktop to bombard you with sounds all the time ... But I loved my Platinum Sounds ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-S5dv9AolZKc.html /s
I would love to see a new button added to the panel to open the overview. I currently have no way to use gestures, and for me the keyboard shortcuts are not comfortable or easy to locate. A new official button for this would be of great help!
Excellent conversation. A few comments: Agree that the KDE team take more time to test if necessary. I don't agree with switching to double click, it's one of the features of KDE that makes it unique. In Plasma 6, touchpad gestures should be improved with options in System Settings. More than matching release dates with the Gnome team, work should be done on improving the integration of Gnome applications into KDE and vice versa, at least from a visual point of view. Currently, is the title bar still effective? I hope you continue these conversations and I wish you much success!! KDE Plasma is an excellent piece of technology, I have been using it without problems since 2019 in my daily work and personal use.
Agree a LOT with Nick about importance of stability (nobody wants broken shell and everybody will hate the devs that released it broken) and less frequent releasing in the sake of stability of the releases!
Appearance should also have a looks in default Plasma, it would be nice if you install plasma and you can click one button and it looks like osx, or windows x or gnome or xfce, black box etc, and then you theme it, and then you customise the theme with single option changes, which then becomes a script that you can export and import into any KDE computer. That way you don't need to create your own distro in order to always have the same theme and looks, and people can start to focus on other stuff then looks like under the hood optimisation, and with that global looks/themes innovation would bloom again, so that artists create new featured combinations, and share scripts. I think it would have an impact on new users and become easier for new people to join in, and KDE could get a bigger userbase.
Also the Network tabs could use touch up. Id suggest putting the most commonly used infos first, and kinda stashing the rest away. The ipv4 adress (unless you use ipv6 only, then it's ipv6), mac adress, interface name, standard gateway and dns resolver, and the other settings kinda stashed away in a submenu or something.
I think there shouldn't be a "make this panel a dock" button - it should be an option in the desktop RMB menu's "add panel" sub menu: in addition to "default panel" option, there should be a "default dock" option.
Single click is the first i enable on gnome, i hate double click. It's not only inefficent, is also against what we are doing in the web since the beginning.
When it comes to the themes in KDE's Plasma, it's always a bit frustrating when you try to create a uniformed theme across the board. I tried to do the XFCE Gruvbox route with Plasma, and it was horrible, some applications wouldn't conform to what was set up, some changes changed back sometimes, and some stuff got overwritten by other parts of the packages added, eventually I just gave up with the idea having my system have the gruvbox theme. I love how KDE have created a theme system that works in stages, what I would like to see is a theme creation application that works alongside the appearance options. I don't really know how people create themes right now, but it's not one theme, it's parts of a theme, and you kind of have to hope that one person has made all the parts or that multiple people have created a full theme with multiple options for colouring, and if it's not a full theme, then it kind of becomes a Frankenstein monster experience, that's why I barely even change the theme anymore, I either go with breeze or nordic, but since I use ArcoLinux, I don't even touch the theme, and just roll with the one it comes with. The themes, is basically why I feel like I have chosen the wrong GUI, because GNOME LOOKS AMAZING in comparison to be honest, and Cosmic also looks really good, but I don't like the limitations as if I'm in a cubical, that I get by using GNOME/Cosmic/Windows etc. I love KDE's GUI because it screams FREEEEDOOOOOOOOOOM!, but the themeing is horrible. There must be a way that could be reworked on. Uniformity, Let a global theme actually be a global theme, and then have the capability to customise the global theme without parts of the theme being overwritten. Is there a dedicated theme application out there? I figure it would basically look like an IDE or something KDE Theme IDE. There are options in KDE's project alright, and some of them crisscross to corrupt each other, especially when it comes to the themes.
With Plasma the config files are all over the place and Kontakt/Kmail is very difficult to backup/restore.. This factors makes it difficult to seamless migrate between computers. In GNOME with Evolution I can single click backup and this makes migration easy. Also with GNOME I can also copy the DCONF database and in a corporate environment where users may move between computers I can simply run an autostart scripts ( from a desktop file in /etc/xdg/autostart ) that pulls those 2 files from a server at login and voila moving between computers easy. If KDE had this ease I would use. Regards Nick's comment about DOCK well Latte dock on KDE is quite nice.
My one major request is an easy GUI way to adjust the major bits of themes. I'm using Garuda now because I like the changes they make out of the box, but if I could easily do those myself, I would enjoy the experience more.
I won't argue that a fixed panel looks *better* than floating, but I don't really see an argument for the opposite either. It's just a panel. Arguably fixed is better because it won't have the wasted space between the panel and the edge of the screen.You know, those 3 rows of pixels are very important!. I am glad to see so much focus on fixing Plasma for this release. I was a KDE user from when I started with Linux in the 3.5 series and loved it. I even liked the early 4 releases that everybody hates. Sure there were bugs, but nothing that dramatically effected my experience. It was actually somewhere in the middle of the Plasma 5 releases where the bugs drove me away, especially on Wayland. I hope this all works out and I can switch back.
It is obviously subjective, but I think many people want there to be margins. We have plenty of empty space in many situations for both aesthetic and practical purposes and this is just one more instance.
Something i REALLY hope is changing in Plasma 6 is, for gods sake make it possible to completely disable, the clipboard. I mean, its basically a keylogger, i mean disable it not Hide it. i know i can, but its still working in the background. and the least amounts of things on the clipboard i can set it to is 1. not 0. its such a security flaw its insane to me, but I care a lot about security. Other than that, theres small things here and there. more polish , not more features is what i want. but i basically only care about the clipboard being completely disabled by default or at least make it easy to do so.
The clipboard set to 0 is basically the same as disabling the ability to copy. You can already set it to only do anything when you explicitly copy stuff.
@@desmondsparrs My point is that setting it to 0 is meaningless. The basic clipboard just registers your copy command the same as all other aspects of the system. Setting the 'clipboard' to zero isn't a security issue, but rather a disabling of core functionality in Linux.
@@niccoloveslinux Maybe it needs to be more visible. The Linux Experiment talked about how hard to find it was, and how it was even harder to find the shortcut key usage for it. He also wanted the ability to save custom layouts, and thought Plasma should model some features of POP! OS's zone manager. The video he discusses it on is called: "KDE Plasma 5.27: the biggest, best, KDE release yet!
Great to see this collaboration .. but why no more resistance to "double-click"? in general circles? It has no practical benefit IMHO; quite the opposite in fact, plus it takes longer & wears out your mouse or trackpad faster. Why not implement it on touch displays instead, i.e. double-tap? There, it would make sense, as it's hard to replicate by accident, saving accidental application launches etc.. (Good that it's prominent in the System Settings though).
