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How Shoujo Changed Shonen FOREVER 

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Shonen Jump magazine is responsible for some of the most successful manga/anime series of all time. But what if I told you that Shojo, and one of the most hated fandoms in anime and manga, is responsible for making many series popular?
Videos Mentioned:
Basic Boi - Explaining the "Male Fetish" In Yaoi Media
ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-LaGZ8XqU0mA.html
The Artisan Geek - Fetishising Gay Men / A Yaoi Discussion
ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-VoWKmGwYAGE.html
BL, Shonen-ai & Yaoi Discussions Playlist: ru-vid.com/group/PLMBcK2lh-RNodp5cKOJFgKTxCy3QLiMwv
SOCIAL MEDIA
linktr.ee/theanimetea
Inquiries: animeteapod@gmail.com
CHAPTERS:
0:00 Intro
1:53 Shojo and Shonen Origins
4:48 Year 24 Group & Origins of BL
10:20 Bishonen Jump Syndrome
13:26 How Profitable Are Fujoshi?
23:12 The Power of Fujoshi
26:38 Final Thoughts
RESOURCES
Manga Series Mentioned:
pastebin.com/DkYxhBDh
Articles:
pastebin.com/NDsU4aVr
SUPPORT THE CHANNEL:
Patreon: www.patreon.com/theanimetea
Ko-Fi: ko-fi.com/theanimetea
LISTS
anilist.co/user/theanimetea/animelist
myanimelist.net/profile/theanimetea
PURPOSE
My name is Phoenix and I dive into the world of visual storytelling in anime and sometimes manga on a weekly basis.
#shonenjump #shojo
LEGAL INFO
I do not own any of the animated content in this video.
Some links provided may be part of an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means of compensation for referring traffic and business to other companies.

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5 янв 2023

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Комментарии : 414   
@TheAnimeTea
@TheAnimeTea Год назад
Watch Bishonen History Video here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-mhkgUNZ7rtY.html Watch Shoujo Romance Anime is Dying Video here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-eAUYQZ-925s.html Hey anime friends! EXCUSE THE FIRST 30 SECONDS OF AUDIO...I had to re-record the intro without my normal mic setup. IMPORTANT NOTE: I debated putting this video out because it wasn't as polished as I wanted it to be but I was not able to re-record due to travel (hence the delay between posts). Additionally, I am working on a video to address the valid concerns and problems with BL and f*tishization in a future video. In the meantime I'll leave a link to various creators who express and explore problematic aspects of fujoshi fandom that should be addressed here and in the description. Thanks for watching and feel free to leave your thoughts! Playlist Link: ru-vid.com/group/PLMBcK2lh-RNodp5cKOJFgKTxCy3QLiMwv
@pusheenqueen519
@pusheenqueen519 Год назад
Fun fact, the creator of Berserk took inspiration from shojo manga. The manga is so compelling in part due to the character's emotional struggles and connections to each other, things often seen as "for girly manga", despite Berserk being perceived on the surface as nothing but brutality and violence.
@kell3691
@kell3691 Год назад
Which is kind of funny that lots of toxic berserk fans will just spend all their time shitting on every other demographic ESPECIALLY Shojo
@pusheenqueen519
@pusheenqueen519 Год назад
@@kell3691 It reminds me of dudes who miss most of what the Dragon Ball series is about. Yeah there's a lot of action and fighting but a good portion of the actual story focuses on the emotional state of the characters and WHY they're fighting and what their true strength comes from.
@HSan1503
@HSan1503 Год назад
@@pusheenqueen519 Their strength comes from pride. I don't understand why you generalize what you call emotions. These emotions are presented in completely different aspect and reasoning compared to romance.
@itsjustme6334
@itsjustme6334 Год назад
@@HSan1503 Yeah! Pride because they're gay!
@pusheenqueen519
@pusheenqueen519 Год назад
@@HSan1503 OK first off feelings of pride and ego can play a part in romance. And two, I'm saying that these type of dudes see emotions on general as not playing a part in the story or character motivations. It's all mindless violence to them.
@fazril7972
@fazril7972 Год назад
You forget how JJK author constantly talk about how he took inspiration from tons of shojo manga. He literally ‘apologized’ because Nobara’s character n backstory are heavily inspired by a shojo manga character (cant remember the tittle). But of course shonen bros will still stick with ‘Nobara, power are just variations of Sakura’
@juliettacapuleto3419
@juliettacapuleto3419 Год назад
Aaaaaand among them was "The night beyond the tricornered window" (awesom manga btw) which is shonen-ai and boy does it shows lol
@bilonic111
@bilonic111 Год назад
If there is something young girls like or are obsessed over in a mostly male dominated society and it’s something those men don’t understand or are disturbed by they will attack it. Same thing that happened with Twilight in America, if it’s popular with young girls then it must be stupid and those girls must be ridiculed for liking it. I am ashamed to admit that I also jumped on the Twilight hate band wagon because I saw it as really stupid and still do, but the fans (mostly preteen/teenage girls) did not deserve any of the ridicule that they got. Learning about the sexism towards certain fandoms later really changed my perspective on these hate band wagons.
@oreki8707
@oreki8707 Год назад
Twilight is stupid though
@rohananil1266
@rohananil1266 Год назад
Twilight was just one big thirst trap, my god. I don't recall it having anything good.
@wesleywyndam-pryce5305
@wesleywyndam-pryce5305 Год назад
in general I agree with that observation I mostly heard criticisms of twilight for having a girl lead who's entire life revolved around a boy she barely knew. never read it myself though.
@jht3fougifh393
@jht3fougifh393 Год назад
I dislike Twilight but love the emotional drama in things like Berserk. People dislike Twilight because of melodrama and nonsensical character behavior, not simply sexism. That's a silly take. Not to say some people aren't sexist, but let's be real. That's a weirdly shallow interpretation.
@louis5799
@louis5799 Год назад
If you think twilight is any of a good book you should be ridiculized for this. But not if you are a teen. We can understand and accept teen not understanding what they read. But any adult that think it is good should be ridiculized for that. If someone like it, it's ok, if someone say it's good it's not
@NKMitch42
@NKMitch42 Год назад
Berserk, an incredibly graphic, violent seinen is full of shojo influences in how its characters are written. The author to my knowledge mentioned this multiple times. That he loved romance but felt like he wasn't good at it, but his story is full of beautiful romance and love and joy buried among the most brutal world imaginable.
@user-sm1jp4en9u
@user-sm1jp4en9u 3 месяца назад
Which shoujo are you talking about? Moreover manga writers takes inspiration...that's how an art is created...it's not a big deal
@AfianySnow29802
@AfianySnow29802 Месяц назад
​@@user-sm1jp4en9uI see you one of those dudebros saying stuff like just because you don't get it. 😒.
@Dev-qs2yb
@Dev-qs2yb 12 дней назад
Yes the wh-re in the Berserk who chased Griffith first bcz he was handsome and leader of a warriors group then fcked a dude she hated bcz he was so strong who could finish a herd of men alone. I would say I agree.
@LynnieD502
@LynnieD502 Год назад
These two genres practically work in harmony. I don't understand the division between these two fandoms.
@jayneb6053
@jayneb6053 Год назад
Because shojo get close to no adaptation in anime or the best we can get is 2 season and then the shonen lover act like manga and anime is a boy zone so shojo lover shouldn't complain add to that internal misogyny within the industry.
@whizz_0711
@whizz_0711 Год назад
@@jayneb6053 true true and the poor female characters in shounen with the excuse of “it’s for boys if you wanna see good female characters go watch shoujo” when it’s completely different genres
@mayzzz429
@mayzzz429 Год назад
The thing is those two are NOT genres, they're demographics, which can affect how male or female characters are usually portrayed, how the fanservice is done and many other factors BUT the genre of various manga within them. Another thing is, many people who mainly read shounen especially those from JUMP + and Weekly Shounen Jump have some misogynistic and shallow views when it comes to shoujo manga, calling it bad, suck and etc. without even reading them. They also rate them lower cuz "they're shoujo" or it's too girly. And if a shoujo "subverts" their expectation and is actually good, they immediately put other shoujo series (which again, they don't even read) under the bus.
@artorhen
@artorhen Год назад
They're demographics, not genres. They can be of any genre, though are more likely to be popular for a particular genre.
@interestingishfae403
@interestingishfae403 Год назад
*demographics that contain a variety of genres but I agree! 💓
@farhanasafran8124
@farhanasafran8124 Год назад
the moment u said a "forgotten demographic" that influenced both shoujo and shounen manga my brain automatically went to fujoshis. they're 99% of the overlap in the venn diagram of shoujo and shounen manga enthusiasts.
@nagasrinivas-fg5lh
@nagasrinivas-fg5lh Год назад
There are always forgetting that fojoshis existence.
@annabelconstantine1241
@annabelconstantine1241 3 месяца назад
I never knew we were ignored this greatly
@tokitobe2450
@tokitobe2450 Год назад
Oh my God. I didn't think I'd ever run into a channel that was as nerdy and history-oriented as this. I'm Japanese but your explanation of the economics and history is GREAT. Around 2010, online digital manga read on cell phones started to be a thing, and in terms of genre, the money didn't lie -- BL sales *dwarfed* everything at the time. Wholesome sports-oriented shonen manga didn't even come close. Maybe major manga titles weren't online back then but people woke TF up to what was actually selling, where there was real demand even if it was embarrassing to boast about it. Awesome video. I'm glad that the portrayal of men and women became way more interesting and less old-fashioned thanks to this subculture.
@monicacreator3168
@monicacreator3168 Год назад
Women are where the money is at. We'll spend time creating fan art, headcanon, fanfiction... well buy bag, coffee mug with the face of our favorite character on it That why series like Bleach even made jewelry collabs
@npcimknot958
@npcimknot958 Год назад
1000000% that’s why idols are a thing, women will toss sooooo much money.
@nagasrinivas-fg5lh
@nagasrinivas-fg5lh Год назад
Yet industry ignore their needs.
@3self
@3self 11 месяцев назад
@@nagasrinivas-fg5lh in anime/manga they forget about everyone’s needs
@ericbreaux6124
@ericbreaux6124 11 месяцев назад
If female animanga consumers are so proffitable, why is there still vastly more sexualization of females than males in those mediums? I often see people say women prefer relationships so much that they aren't as visually sexually excited as men and that more people find women's features more attractive. Many women who often feel sexual would rather read about sexual stuff than see a sexually depicted male body. You see women sexualized and pursued much more often than men are by women. Even many heterosexual women prefer to sexualize their gender more than they do males. I don't know how they don't hate that the sexualization ratio vastly favors what those attracted to women want to see. I've seen many people of either gender say there's more ways for the female body to look attractive than the male and that curviness on women makes it easier to depict a female body in art, and gives more variety than the male. This difference of expression of sexual desire for one gender is often attributed to testosterone. This disproportionate amount of expression of sexual desire or just appreciation of beauty for one gender more than the other has always made me furious. I can see no advantage to one gender being sexually desired more often than the other. That leaves more people of one genders desires less satisfied more often. This is something that makes it difficult for me to enjoy female beauty and is a reason I choose to stay single.
@monicacreator3168
@monicacreator3168 11 месяцев назад
@@ericbreaux6124 You know yaoi exist? You know who is the biggest consumer of it? And how profitable it is? Also, it speaks more on the versatility of women than anything else. Women can both consume media made for us and for male, we both enjoy shoujo and shounen, but men tend to only consume media made for them
@SebastianSeanCrow
@SebastianSeanCrow Год назад
23:40 majority of fujoshi I’ve talked to were either queer or just loved love. I’m into yaoi and yuri cuz I’m queer. And I’ve heard there are some yaoi creators who have come out as queer as well. I have heard awful stories but I’m glad those stories are nothing like what I’ve seen
@luluanthem
@luluanthem Год назад
Me too! I discovered my queerness through GL and BL content, and made many LGBTQ+ friends back in the late 2000s from that experience.
@wildmoonchild8210
@wildmoonchild8210 Год назад
I found myself watching BL because the majority of MLW romance ive seen are written for the male gaze which feels gross to watch as a woman. but yeah I definitely think that a large portion of BL watchers are queer, otherwise just looking for emotional connection in the show, rather than purely sexual
@meimeihughes
@meimeihughes Год назад
If you want to see the extent of how bl fans have impacted Shonen a good place to look would be stage play adaptations. Many of them play up a lot of the complex relationships between the male characters and even the ones that don't make most of their sales through merch like bromides, can badges, and even penlights. Basically transforming Shonen characters into idols. The male actors are often well aware of the ships as well and are used to flirting with their costars both on and off stage. The first haikyuu stage play didn't even feature a single female actor. The team manager was just an offstage voice and the female students were played by the main cast whose characters were not in those scenes. If selling pretty boys were an art form, stage plays are masters of the craft.
@Ariel_is_a_dreamer
@Ariel_is_a_dreamer Год назад
Omg. I once saw a Hunter x Hunter play recorded and there was a full on love song about a character's "friendship" with another boy. It was emotional, heartfelt, disney-princess song level. And completely not canon. I loved it.
@nagasrinivas-fg5lh
@nagasrinivas-fg5lh Год назад
They even used to be female screaming audience.
@pingutune
@pingutune Год назад
togashi, the author of hxh and yu yu hakusho (a series you mention) is a fudanshi actually. fun fact, he modeled hiei off of a gay character from a bl he read xD he also attempted to make a gay baseball manga with a crossdressing male character but this was in the 80's so it was shut down.
@sahwangshi
@sahwangshi Год назад
can i get some sources on this? that sounds fun but i've been in the hxh fandom half my life and i never heard this
@pingutune
@pingutune Год назад
@@sahwangshi 3rd time i'm making this reply because youtube is deleting my comments.. look up "trouble quartet" and find an image, it shows togashi explaining what i stated above. then, google "hiei based on scunky" you'll find the image of togashi saying what he's based on.
@minako134
@minako134 Год назад
A huge topic that often doesn't get enough attention. If you did even more videos diving into even more details and the history I'd be all here for it!! I studied abroad at a girls' college in Japan for 4 months back in 2008, and my friend and I were brave enough (or naive and crazy enough) to poke our heads into the campus Manga Club (manga kenkyuukai, or "manken" for short), which, because it was a girls' school, was all girl nerds. My Japanese skills were pretty bad, and they all spoke Japanese really fast and mumbly, but it still was interesting taking my lunch to their club room to hang out a few days a week for 4 months. I wish I knew what they were conversing about. I got to get a copy of their previous year's "club doujinshi" they made, just a collection of member-submitted short stories of various characters they created themselves or liked. I also enjoyed doodling anime art in their "club notebook" that was left on the table for any club member to draw in, it also doubled as a checkout list if you wanted to borrow manga from the club's collection. I wish I had taken photos or something, but I always was too shy, and also I didn't want them to feel pressured to let photos be taken of their sacred space.
@_zlue_
@_zlue_ Год назад
one thing that also comes in why many women or afab are interested in male characters and their relationships and not in female ones, is simply because female characters written by men are not well developed (sexism, stereotypical female characters, you know all those things) - then obviously they’re going for a more substantial dynamic and characters, and obviously with this comes the potential of the shipping and everything also as a separate thing- but like in my life I have seen male fans who do this thing of celebrate the birthdays of their characters showing all the merchandise they bought
@egyptjaguar9050
@egyptjaguar9050 Год назад
When I was a kid, the characters I liked best together (I didn't know I was shipping them because I didn't know what gay was) were girls, but they were of course unintentionally gay. The series I watched later had that more often with guys, because the shows with the most girls and girls having cool adventures were targeting younger audiences, and shows for older audiences are majority male targeted and/or male character populated. So this is probably another reason
@shizachan8421
@shizachan8421 Год назад
Kinda always reminds me about how I went into Chainsaw Man just expecting trash actions with some cute looking femmale characters and was utterly shocked and hyped of how well written and three-dimensional the women were in the series, with the female cast being afforded the same emotional complexity and competency as the male characters (and then he one upped it and just decided to give us a new female MC with Part 2)
@egyptjaguar9050
@egyptjaguar9050 Год назад
@@shizachan8421 just makes me imagine what Naruto could have been if the author had done the same.. what a different world it would be😅
@shizachan8421
@shizachan8421 Год назад
@@egyptjaguar9050 Probably an alot better Manga in which Sakura would have been an actually important member of Team 7 who gets her own powerup at the end. But yeah, I think its really sad that we live in a world were one of the things I have to praise Fujimoto, who is in my opinion one of the best manga writers of our time, for is him being capable of writing three-dimensional and fleshed out characters. I mean, I would say that even in the case of for example Himeno, who was motivated by her love for Aki, I feel like he manages to avoid the trappings of having a female character who is motivated by her love for a man and sacrifices ehrself for it, because she has she has enough of a backstory and established character, that we can understand why she would feel that way, with her character. Like, I would say in the grand scale of things, she is basically Sakura done right, considering how Aki is a Sasuke-Style character.
@egyptjaguar9050
@egyptjaguar9050 Год назад
@@shizachan8421 I agree minus the part about Himeno being Sakura. Sakura was an average happy and slightly spoiled girl who's only motivation for continuing on as a ninja was Sasuke, while Himeno joined because of her own trauma, and had her own life and motivations but decided to throw them away because she managed to find love/something worth living for. She reminds me more of Sasuke (in that he supposedly falls for Sakura after countless seasons and she manages to heal parts of his trauma (or at least I think, I haven't gotten that far)) or maybe Gaara without the homicidal rage. Also- (unrelated) don't you think Himeno is literally female Dazai from Bungo Stray Dogs? (Disregard if you haven't watched) But yeah, Aki is like a chiller version of Sasuke.
@teapartypenguin1353
@teapartypenguin1353 Год назад
I actually very recently found out the the popularity of catgirls in anime largely came from the shoujo manga Wata no Kunihoshi, about a kitten adopted by a young man, and because the cat believes she is human, she is drawn as a little girl with cat ears. I also feel like the artist Yumiko Oshina largely influenced Yumi Tamura's (Basara, 7Seeds,) artstyle. It's also a Year 24 manga, but there's no official english release and the scanlations I've found are ROUGH. It does have a movie though. The Year 24 group is so underrated for their contributions to the manga industry and I've been looking into reading more of it since starting Rose of Versailles, but so little of it has an official release in english. Learning to read japanese would be easier than hoping they get a release.
@TheMandalorianPadawan
@TheMandalorianPadawan Год назад
I find it interesting how catgirls and magical girls and all of that originated in shoujo but are considered a shounen/seinen thing these days. No one took magical girls seriously until shounen and seinen manga started focusing on them, and that was always in dark ways (because how dare a show be about magical girls saving the world with the power of love and friendship). Shounen sexualised catgirls, horror-ified magical girls, and gets so much credit for these character types that ORIGINATED IN SHOUJO. It makes me frustrated, as a shoujo fan.
@teapartypenguin1353
@teapartypenguin1353 Год назад
@@TheMandalorianPadawan It's basically the same with isekai. Most isekai titles from the 90s (before isekai as a genre and the tropes associated with it were really solidified) were shoujo or featured female protagonists (Fushigi Yugi, 12 Kingdoms, Red River, Inuyasha, etc.). But around the 2010s when light novels like SAO started blowing up, it shifted largely to a male audience and the set ups became a lot more of the same thing with a setting out of a European high fantasy with rpg game rules. And with more male-oriented fanservice. It's like producers found their money maker, and have been milking it dry for years. So a normal girl going to a magical world where she is a chosen one and hot dudes like her is cringey, but flip the genders and it's profitable peak fiction?
@mahogania5536
@mahogania5536 Год назад
I liked catgirls because it was the closest thing to cats I could find, then it turns out it was used more for fanservice than for the cat shenanigans, so I stopped liking them. Yes, I was a child and I liked cats
@teapartypenguin1353
@teapartypenguin1353 Год назад
@@mahogania5536 Only anime I can think of right now with non-sexed up catgirls is Tokyo Mew Mew.
@mahogania5536
@mahogania5536 Год назад
@@teapartypenguin1353 that's the one I watched the most, but it didn't have much in the way of cat shenanigans. Turns out I just wanted to see a show with animated cats. Anyways, I've left that phase behind me, and that sort of fanservice wasn't my cup of tea, so I broadened my horizons and that loss is now a win-win
@s.3712
@s.3712 6 месяцев назад
Good video! This has made me think a lot about how companies pander to BL fans. It makes me tjink about Goji and Geto relationship from Jujutsu Kaisen and bishonen Yoshida Hirofumi from Chainsaw Man lol also, it's funny that Aki was on the cover of a women's magazine, I loved it. I would recommend the video "Did women saved Gundam?" for exploring more about the power of fujoshi
@daisybrain9423
@daisybrain9423 Год назад
My main takeaway from this video is that the obvious strategy to make shoujo more popular is more yuri-teasing.
@Harukurochan
@Harukurochan Год назад
Honestly? As a bisexual woman who loves yuri and shoujo manga I would *love* that! Interestingly, yuri does have its roots in shoujo magazines and manga (Erica Friedman has done several videos and wrote a book going into more detail about it) and some recent yuri hits have either been serialized in shoujo or josei magazines, like the “Kase-san &…” series and “A White Rose in Bloom”, or being a shoujo/josei romance without a specific demographic label, like “Whisper Me a Love Song” or “Doughnuts Under a Crescent Moon”. In short, I’d love to see more yuri & explicitly sapphic romances in shoujo and josei manga, and it seems like the tide is turning for that to become a reality!
@buchelaruzit
@buchelaruzit Год назад
i mean it would work but is it worth the cost? (popularizing and encouraging dudebros to fetishize yuri)
@pkmkb1
@pkmkb1 11 месяцев назад
that doesn't work bc male fans are unreliable and don't spend nowhere near as much as fujos, just look at the amount of lesbian netflix series that get cancelled, all of them site the fact that while the male audience tunes in they don't support the series at all and generally move on quickly
@miria4157
@miria4157 11 месяцев назад
Its sort of been done.Take Bakarina claes and her harem or in kiss him not me. Shojo tends to be clear with who the end game is so the interaction is very minimal (declaration of love and some hand holding) in comparison to yuribait scenes in shonen.
@tawan6921
@tawan6921 4 месяца назад
Yuri is not popular among men though... I think shoujo that gain some popularity among men are shojo with male protagonist that isn't gay.
@TSignature
@TSignature Год назад
Great video!! Another thing you didn’t mention is the changing demographics of Japan. First, less women are getting married and leaving the work force, leading to more disposable income for them to spend money on traditionally male hobbies. Second, China has become a huge market for anime and has similar demographics issues as Japan, but a big one is that Chinese women due to the communist revolution largely work after marriage, unlike Japanese women, which is another huge market to be catered to. The reason I mention China and not the US is because BL is very common in China despite the strict censorship laws. Quite a few BL novels have been scrubbed of the gay parts and become very mainstream shows that earn huge amounts of money.
@PinkNymphetamine22
@PinkNymphetamine22 Год назад
You're totally right about how the fujoshi community gets a lot of undeserved bad talk, and that can be attributed to a mix of external and internalized misogyny, homophobia and (sometimes) misguided puritanism. Fujoshi aren't the only creative force behind fandoms, but they make up a large majority of it, and they've kinda set a standard of how far you can take transformative works as fans for fans of shounen manga. Also, it's not that weird for fujoshi to pair up two male characters together and make them the most popular ship in the fandom when many shounen authors are notoriously bad at writing compelling dynamics between the male lead and female love interest (as a former Naruto fan, I know what I'm talking about)... so male fans and writers have no right to complain on that front. That being said, lots of straight male fans do miss out on having fun with their shounen fandom when they never stray away from dick-measuring contest between their overpowered blorbos. I have noticed my male brothers having way more fun with their favorite series when they got past their preconceptions about fanfic and got into reading a few that aren't surface-level 'cringey gay porn'.
@nagasrinivas-fg5lh
@nagasrinivas-fg5lh Год назад
Theay even write their favourite character x reader/oc fics for wish fulfillment. And yes shoenn authors cannot write compiling diyamices between male and female character.
@vfl0werswife
@vfl0werswife 11 месяцев назад
its normal to a point, once it gets to the obsessive point it just becomes fetishization of gay men, like how lots of straight men watch lesbian pxrn. they definitely shouldnt be hated for it though, just educated :)
@PinkNymphetamine22
@PinkNymphetamine22 11 месяцев назад
@@vfl0werswife It's an argument that I hear way too often, but we should first need to clearly define what's the line that needs to be crossed for it to change from 'normal' into 'obsessive', because the therm 'fetishization' is thrown around way too much and its meaning tends to vary between 'liking a sexual thing' to 'unambiguously negative objectification', because, goodness gracious, I've seen my share of queer men getting accused of 'fetishizing gay men' unironically by people who adore using that one word.
@MiyakoPisces4.0
@MiyakoPisces4.0 8 месяцев назад
​@@vfl0werswifeWhat?.
@Whatthewhat927
@Whatthewhat927 6 месяцев назад
Fujoshis would ship two males because that’s also the best they feel they can get in terms of fanservice for the female gaze.
@SogonD.Zunatsu
@SogonD.Zunatsu Год назад
I think the main difference story-wise between Shojo and Shonen, is the emphasis on inter-personal relationships. In shojos that's the main aspect, whatever happens in the story serves to highlight change in said relationships, whereas Shonen are more goal-oriented, relationships are more of an obstacle to the protagonist, a turbulence whether it is friendship, rivalry or even romance. When the shonen fans meme on the shippers, that's because those shippers seem to be missing the point of the story and are muddying the waters of online discussions. Their polar-opposite on the shonen side are power-scalers, god I hate them.
@fairylesbyaintdve6536
@fairylesbyaintdve6536 Год назад
power scaling is so stupid cause like y’all it’s made up by people they’d just write it whichever way (of who would win) they wanted and then retroactively justify it and it works cause like……it’s all in service of the narrative! At least in a good story
@SogonD.Zunatsu
@SogonD.Zunatsu Год назад
@@fairylesbyaintdve6536 Yup, it's whatever the story requires.
@tawan6921
@tawan6921 4 месяца назад
I think you are correct with the stereotype of "girl play barbie, boy play lego". In general, male are more thing and goal orient, female are more person and relationships orient. Some male think that female's interests are dumb, and some female think that male's interests are dumb.
@hiikarinnn
@hiikarinnn Год назад
Great video! Although I think there is a lack of evidence for whether the changes are largely due to the buying power of fujoshi- I think it’s more broad than just fujoshi. For example artworks of male characters hanging out together isn’t intentionally made to have any kind of bl subtext, I think it’s goal is to appeal to a broader slice of the female fandom. I think a lot of the arguments made in this video about the power of fujoshi actually just applies to female consumers as a whole and fujoshi are a smaller part of it
@getahobbydamnit
@getahobbydamnit 10 месяцев назад
this video is so good! the funniest instance of male anime fans complaining about fujoshi recently is in the blue lock fandom. as much as guys like that complaint about fujoshi being toxic fake fans, they're actually the genre illiterate ones. the author would not have drawn and written the characters like that if he didn't want fujoshi in the fandom 😂
@JayDay04
@JayDay04 Год назад
The conclusion I got from this is that shonen magazines cracked the code in selling more by appealing to women. Meanwhile, shoujo magazines still haven't. It's rare to see a man enjoying shoujo except when it's super popular like Sailor Moon, Cardcaptor and Fruits Basket.
@kiraleshoth
@kiraleshoth Год назад
Tbh I feel like works that shows variety in their content tend to work better at attracting everyone, as in it shows stuff about action, fights, but also psychology, emotions etc. And the reason's pretty simple: human beings are complex, you can never 100% classify their interests in boxes, because there's a lot of overlap and exceptions to the "norms". So it makes sense that a genre or work showing variety and complexity appeals to more people in general. One example I've found that is quite popular among different genders seems to be Akatsuki no Yona. The rose of Versailles (Lady Oscar) was also quite popular among men. One thing to not forget is that those kind of works also exist in shoujo and, not surprisingly in the end, attract many kind of people. The more "cliche" shoujos seem to work more for teenager girls, but from what I've seen around me, lots of them quickly overgrow that point. Because as you age, you quickly understand things aren't that "simple", though you can always appreciate such stories from times to times. Looking at the other side, it's similar for shounens. There's also the matter of people not admitting they're attracted to a certain genre, due to social norms. Where I live, people tend to not care so we seem more "diverse" in our interests, but I think a big part of that is due to perceived social norms, which are constantly shifting over time (what is perceived as feminine and masculine has changed a LOT over human history, and will likely continue doing so).
@ryu4ever
@ryu4ever Год назад
Nah. I think they found the way with "My Dress-Up Darling". It was a romance series with a LOT of fanservice for men, and that was what made it popular throught them. I feel that, If shoujos give fanservice, they will got the men, but also, they should give fanservice for women too, so everybody can enjoy and have what they want that is... fanservice lol
@Harukurochan
@Harukurochan Год назад
@@ryu4ever But, “My Dress-Up Darling” is serialized in a seinen (adult men) magazine, not shoujo. 🤨
@miguelorozco4445
@miguelorozco4445 Год назад
@@ryu4ever Sono bisque doll is a seinen
@JayDay04
@JayDay04 Год назад
@@ryu4evermany popular series don't need close up shots of boobs to be popular. That's only for perverted men. Shoujo don't need that at all to be popular, the issue lies somewhere else.
@Kr4r4
@Kr4r4 Год назад
I am fujoshi for over 15 years(I'm 32 now) and I want to thank you so much for this video. Fujoshis sponsors so many series and seasons. A great example is the second season of Tiger and Bunny. It got a new season over 10 years after the first. All because the fujos never stopped buying the most random merchandising they would release. I myself buy a lot of manga, basically all are shonen or BL. And the older I get, the more I buy!
@nagasrinivas-fg5lh
@nagasrinivas-fg5lh Год назад
Some mangaka drew dojinshi of the series.
@sknight2810
@sknight2810 Год назад
I tell u girl carried anime fandom but men thinks we’re trying to impress them and make us name 10 animes and shit
@redscarf2766
@redscarf2766 Год назад
Talking about the Chainsaw man, biggest ship in the fandom is Aki x Angel devil.
@unbromomento6338
@unbromomento6338 Год назад
its the only gay ship i like
@simpleton3781
@simpleton3781 Год назад
I really enjoyed this video. It’s so interesting !! And it never occurred that companies do this. As a bl fan it makes me feel less delusional in my serious stance that Naruto should’ve been with Saske.
@eva_ngeline9665
@eva_ngeline9665 Год назад
Same!
@abidyo
@abidyo Год назад
I mean.. to be fair.. Sasuke does spend more time with Naruto than his wife or kids lol justsayin, just putting it out there (not even a bl fan)
@wesleywyndam-pryce5305
@wesleywyndam-pryce5305 Год назад
naruto deserves better than saske
@louis5799
@louis5799 Год назад
That's why you get bully
@simpleton3781
@simpleton3781 Год назад
@@abidyo yeah he does
@layla-8369
@layla-8369 Год назад
Thank you so much for this video! It was very interesting, and I think you put it very well too. I think it's not just a matter of shonen jump (and other shonen magazines) finding the formula to appeal to a wider demographic and fujoshi in particular -though they definetely did. The reason why shojo fans/ women read shonen but shonen fans/men don't read shojo is because ''male oriented'' media is very often seen as ''universal'' in one way or another, but consuming ''femenine media'' is seen as inherently emasculating. It also happens in western media too: see how most superhero stuff is (or better said WAS) technically made with a male audience in mind but has so many women reading it vs how men regard ''chick lit'' and your average romcom, how girls watch ''dudebro'' movies but men don't really watch series like Bridgerton. Of course these are generalizations, but it's important to keep that in mind. It's very difficult for shojo or josei to reach certain levels of popularity readily available to the shonen/seinen demographic, especially in a huge magazine like shonen jump because the general public is biased against them from the very start. The thing here is that fujoshis are so incredibly profitable (and some of them won't go into shojo beyond bl and instead keep with their shonens) for everyone involved. Of course, you've mentioned all this, as well as how fan content is free publicity. So everyone benefits: fujoshis get loads of content, creators get money and artists get exposure and the companies get so much money. I wonder what it is about fujoshis that make them spend so much money. But yeah, pretty boys and waifus and the fans parasocial relationships with them is what makes companies the most money. Sidenote but i was recently at a convention, saw this really good cosplay of Aki at a booth and later learned that this person and their cosplay partner sell pictures of their cosplays -mostly bl couples. They literally make a living out of it, and I found it fascinating because there really is a whole ''industry'' to back them up with many other people doing the same.
@mishidesu
@mishidesu Год назад
From what I have read fujoshi is a self-deprecating term coined by female doujinshi creators themselves. It's a play on the word/kanji 婦女子 (fujoshi) which means grown woman. The 腐 in 腐女子 (fujoshi) does mean "rotten". 腐ってる (Kusatteru) means "it's rotten" but is also used to refer to a fujoshi. Yaoi is also a deprecating term coined by fujoshis and it's an acronym for "yama nashi, ochi nashi, imi nashi" (No climax, no fall, no meaning) On another note, Banana Fish is a great mixture of shoujo, shounen and BL ^^
@SerifSansSerif
@SerifSansSerif Год назад
For Clamp, everyone forgets Angelic Layer. (Comment for algo)
@SkyofDread
@SkyofDread Год назад
Just found your channel yesterday this is exactly what I needed!
@rh162
@rh162 Год назад
Cute girls doing cute things/moe is the male equivalent
@nagasrinivas-fg5lh
@nagasrinivas-fg5lh Год назад
Yep I think so.
@me11owart68
@me11owart68 Год назад
I really enjoyed this video, especially the explanation of appealing to different demographics and a wider audience. I feel that mentioning “fetishizing gay men” when talking about BL is exaggerated as an issue. Many BL fans are queer or see BL characters as an escapist fantasy far away from real men. I think the same thing can be said about otaku and weebs is they see 2D characters as far away from reality. There is a small group of BL fans that fetishize real gay men, but I think this can be a result of a heteronormative dominant culture more than BL itself. Also, I think more BL fans are queer than most people realize.
@shougatea
@shougatea Год назад
I love how you dive into the background and history of the things you talk about
@daydreamfighter961
@daydreamfighter961 Год назад
Again great video about very neglected topic. Fuyoshi seem to get the hate of the other fans and yet their financial contribution is also ignored like the other female, NLBTQ+ and any other non cis-hetero male fans who are there to support the shounen series, but they are sole supporters of shoujo, Yosei, Yaoi/BL , Bara ect. niche that caters to then openly. Keep up good work
@GraveyardMaiden
@GraveyardMaiden Год назад
They get hate cause what they're doing is inherently homophobic and extremely harmful to queer men, it doesn't mater if they "give finacial support" because what they are doing is really dehumanizing to queer people
@nagasrinivas-fg5lh
@nagasrinivas-fg5lh Год назад
Not all female otkau are fujoshi.
@daydreamfighter961
@daydreamfighter961 Год назад
@@nagasrinivas-fg5lh I never insisted that but I meant the whole non cis hetero male fans being ignored for their contribution for the industry. Not all female identifying fans are fujoshi but all fujoshi are women.
@FroAlchemist
@FroAlchemist Год назад
Sasaki & Miyano is another series that came out last year. It’s stinkin adorable! 8:37
@lewa3910
@lewa3910 Год назад
Another class in session! Great vid
@DannyDeath301
@DannyDeath301 Год назад
I love your analysis sooooooo much, thanks for doing this for us, i discovered you last year and im obssessed with your videos, keep the great work
@a.a.stanyoongles308
@a.a.stanyoongles308 Год назад
women can consume content that are targeted to men, but men can't consume content that are targeted towards women. i said what i said. i remember seeing this guy on twitter freaking out bc there was this girl who is a fan of one piece, acting as if its the most revolutionary thing that has happened in the world. cringe af.
@nagasrinivas-fg5lh
@nagasrinivas-fg5lh Год назад
Yes there are multiple female fans of one piece.
@cesar.leyvag
@cesar.leyvag Год назад
This was a very interesting and good video! I love your thoughtful and nuanced approach. I'll make sure to share with some of my friends and acquaintances
@chinchari
@chinchari Год назад
your channel is such a gem 💜
@impsail374
@impsail374 Год назад
I connected with feminine/androgynous male characters and liked to ship them together and then I came out as a bi androgynous male 😌
@unbromomento6338
@unbromomento6338 Год назад
the fuck this means
@impsail374
@impsail374 Год назад
@@unbromomento6338 I'm a queer
@rattersworld1016
@rattersworld1016 Год назад
I agree with the thing about the male demographic being less likely to read something aimed towards women, and it bothers me. I feel the same about dresses vs. pants. We've finally made it that there aren't any styles that are only for men, yet there are still styles that are only for women.
@enterurnamehere27
@enterurnamehere27 11 месяцев назад
There are many styles that are only for men tho, especially countries outside the U.S
@rattersworld1016
@rattersworld1016 10 месяцев назад
@@enterurnamehere27 Good point, I was only thinking locally for myself... sorry about that!!
@grinko1222
@grinko1222 3 месяца назад
Makes sense when you specifically target girls, males are less likely to care.
@magnadramon0068
@magnadramon0068 Год назад
This video is really good. I really liked how you talked about how much fujoshi played a role in influencing shonen
@nagasrinivas-fg5lh
@nagasrinivas-fg5lh Год назад
Yes they did play a lot of role of populrzing.
@mayzzz429
@mayzzz429 Год назад
Love your videos :). A lot of work must have been put to make it.
@blaze14ZX
@blaze14ZX Год назад
Great video Phoenix, I really love lrarning about manga/anime history. Seeing all the bishojo elements in shonen definitely got more prevalent around when I first started watching anime in the late 90s. I didn't think yu yu hakusho was in that category but when I compare it to fist of the north star I can see the contrast. Thanks again Phoenix and keep being you.
@deirdrem4522
@deirdrem4522 Год назад
I watched this video while drinking my tea. Thanks! :)
@lumilenm__m5304
@lumilenm__m5304 Год назад
Wow, this is a VERY informative video. Just when I was starting to think I know almost everything about the anime medium. Subscribed ❤️💎
@officialejprice
@officialejprice Год назад
this was a really interestin n informative vid!! thank you for takin the time to make it
@Sarbeatify
@Sarbeatify Год назад
Glad to see you back!!! I really hope that you make an Attack on Titan Recap Video before the final season comes out!!! Ur explanations made it sooooo easy for me to understand and enjoy the show more
@sj224
@sj224 Год назад
I knew this was gonna be about Fujos right from the intro!! I feel so ✨ SEEN ✨
@theotherotter
@theotherotter Год назад
i really want to watch/read a shonen style/action packed anime but mostly with girls and women. i grow up running at home to watch naruto, shaman king, big shonen hits are rote by women: steel alchimist, demon slayer. Why we don't have such a representation just one show, that's not 90s madoko magika but really nice fighting style as in chainsaw and jjk.
@KhukuriGod
@KhukuriGod Год назад
You could try _Lycoris Recoil_ and _Akiba Maid War._ They're action anime with a primarily female cast.
@buchelaruzit
@buchelaruzit Год назад
yeah. here are a few shows with female protags (not all are shounen but it's still smth): "kill la kill" (it's great, full of fanservice though), "akatsuki no yona" (shoujo but action packed), "dennou coil" (seinen probably), "the promised neverland" (shounen), "talentless nana" (a bit like death note but more shounen), "michiko to hatchin" (seinen? but very action driven. recommend), "little witch academia" (same studio as kill la kill. they're pretty good with having female protags), "gundam: the witch from mercury", "kaizoku oujo" (like akatsuki no yona), "vivy: fluorite eye's song", "youjo senki" (seinen i'd say but with action). also i fully second "akiba maid war". i don't like shounen lol but i tried my best
@T-mack56
@T-mack56 11 месяцев назад
​@@buchelaruzitMichiko to Hatchin is a Josei series.
@grinko1222
@grinko1222 3 месяца назад
Shonen literally means boy in Japanese. That's why the vast majority of shounen star boys as the main characters.
@user-sm1jp4en9u
@user-sm1jp4en9u 3 месяца назад
​@@grinko1222 I really don't like how they always want only the male spaces to be inclusive
@carlo5771
@carlo5771 12 дней назад
Very interesting video
@urbanscholar
@urbanscholar Год назад
The homie shared this video on discord. I like the analysis and had to subscribe to the channel. Keep up the good work 🙏🏾
@naturallyspiritual7256
@naturallyspiritual7256 Год назад
The pop up noises are too loud. They scare the crap out of me. It feels like a jumpscare because you're voice is so calm and soothing and then all of a sudden POP!!!! Waaaaaa😫😭
@lndcruz721
@lndcruz721 Год назад
great history lesson on the effects of shojo! and the effect of female fans especially fujoshi on the industry. i know fujoshi can get a bad rep but honestly its usually just female fans being passionate about what they like. great note about female fans in general as well, as its not just fujoshi that also end up enjoying shonen and other genres as well. i feel like female centered genres in general has this assumption about them that makes it not as great as reeling in readers outside its intended audience which is sad because on the other hand I think its true that women are more open to other genres and those genres like shonen get to enjoy boosted popularity from more demographics. that said i do like that in response those other genres like shonen are incentivized to cater to different demographics which i do enjoy. its an interesting topic to explore, love the video!
@deunin
@deunin 9 месяцев назад
Also want to give a shout out to Given author, Natsuki Kizu, bc I found them from their Haikyuu doujinshi!
@katarinaclaes96
@katarinaclaes96 Год назад
Amazing video I'm sorry about your auto. I love Anime and Manga 😁🥺
@eva_ngeline9665
@eva_ngeline9665 Год назад
Honesty, as a fan of many ships such as Kageyama x Hinata, Deku x Todoroki, and Deku x Bakugo, I never realized how, when buying acrylic charms and pins of all these boys, just looking up the show led me to merch that was a deliberately made for fujoshi. Why sell pins of just Deku, Bakugo, and Todoroki all in fancy suits? Now I know!
@nagasrinivas-fg5lh
@nagasrinivas-fg5lh Год назад
So many shoenn series are like this.
@alwaysapirateroninace443
@alwaysapirateroninace443 Год назад
Great video!
@oompaasha
@oompaasha Год назад
I really enjoy your videos.
@charlesfranco6230
@charlesfranco6230 Год назад
Your research skills are impressive. I struggle to efficiently find information, how do you do it?
@tirone7520
@tirone7520 10 месяцев назад
i hope the trend continues i want more interpersonnal stories
@SoraiaLMotta
@SoraiaLMotta Год назад
now is time for shojo autors invade shonen romances
@simpleton3781
@simpleton3781 Год назад
Also something’s off with the audio in the whole video 😢 I hope it’s nothing major
@mr.beater2064
@mr.beater2064 Год назад
There is a popular theory that the term yaoi came from Saint seaya fandom in the 80s. Side note: some women like self shipping with their fictional character also known as yumejoshi.
@rattersworld1016
@rattersworld1016 Год назад
What does she mean by the "3rd Ending" of MHA? I've only read the manga and I haven't finished it yet, so I don't know what is going on.
@alwaysapirateroninace443
@alwaysapirateroninace443 Год назад
If anyone wants to understand why boys have issues expressing their feelings or showing they actually care about others, just watch YuYu Hakusho, specifically the Dark Tournament Arc (best tournament arc ever. I usually am bored with tournament arcs. Not this one.)
@roriestill6231
@roriestill6231 Год назад
Subscribed
@kirbyjoe7484
@kirbyjoe7484 Год назад
A load of the top shounen series are literally written by women and it's hilarious how little of the male anime community realizes this fact.
@sibiraj6589
@sibiraj6589 6 месяцев назад
Don’t make me laugh
@user-sm1jp4en9u
@user-sm1jp4en9u 3 месяца назад
The gender of the writer does not matter. Cringe
@AfianySnow29802
@AfianySnow29802 2 месяца назад
​@@sibiraj6589Are you upset?.
@AfianySnow29802
@AfianySnow29802 2 месяца назад
​@@user-sm1jp4en9uSounds like someone is mad. 😂.
@cureaurora7591
@cureaurora7591 11 месяцев назад
Some shonen wouldn't be as popular as they are today if fujoshi didn't watch/read them👀 *cough* mha *cough* 👀
@xxsarah52009xx
@xxsarah52009xx Год назад
Do you think that the writers themselves purposely put some elements of pandering to fujoshis in their work or is it that shounen jump chooses/continue stories that have these elements? or is it a mixture of both?
@510Sekhon
@510Sekhon Год назад
The audio seems off in this video.
@TheAnimeTea
@TheAnimeTea Год назад
Sorry for the bad audio in the intro of the video, it should clear up about 30 seconds in.
@n62956
@n62956 Год назад
But where can I get an that magazine with Aki though ? Asking for a friend 😅😂❤
@wolfganggrimmer6120
@wolfganggrimmer6120 Год назад
There's actually a manga in Shounen Jump right now about the main character who is a Fujoshi and she's obsessed with a shounen manga because she ships the main character and his rival. It's called Ghostbuster Osamu
@NekoNekoKainushi
@NekoNekoKainushi 5 месяцев назад
As a Japanese, I would like to correct one thing: "fujoshi" are just another category of otaku fandom, and elements such as "the most hated on the internet" do not exist, at least not in Japan. The term "fujoshi" is also just a play on words, and is often used self-deprecatingly by those who love the special kind of romance fiction known as "yaoi". Also, the meaning of the terms '少年(shounen)' and '少女(shoujo)' in 'shounen manga' and 'shojo manga' changes with the times. Shōnen manga has long since ceased to be content aimed at young people, and most subscribers are "adult men and women who subscribed to shōnen manga as boys". In the 1980s, female-oriented manga depicting boy love, such as Poe's Family and The Poetry of Wind and Trees, were not called 'shounen manga' but 'bishonen manga', but as you say, they are now integrated into the BL designation.
@xhadow8815
@xhadow8815 Год назад
You mentioning Bleach is ironic cause it's my current hyperfixation. Alot of my friends that like it are female.I always bring up how I think Kubo's male designs & characterization have alot of appeal with women ( whether Kubo did that on purpose or not). And they usually agree. I notice alot of them have a crush on more then one character when they usually have a crush on one character when it comes to shouen series. I've also been collecting merch from this series & I noticed alot of there Ichiban Kuji feature mainly male characters & maybe 1 or 2 female characters. Alot of them are themed to (winter/going outfits, butler/maid outfits). Which I think alines with your point about the cafés alot (Girls like men that be dressing). Alot of the new merch (for this arc) & café collab merch also mainly features the main male characters and every once and a while Rukia is involved. I've lowkey always felt like in my Bleach merch travel that alot of the merch was aimed at women. But kind of brushed it off as stright girl tunnel vision. But after watching this video I dont think so. The only Bleach merch I think that ponders to both male & female is merch from Brave Souls (The gatcha game). Al I feel like merch produced for female & male gaze is 50/50. The only BL pondering I've seen in Bleach was Ending 28 with Uryu and Ichigo. I was so confused as to why there was a ending animated to make it look like Uryu had a crush on Ichigo, for a filler arc that had nothing to with there relationship at all. Even the fandom recognizes that this ending is "gay". lol That being said Bleach has TONS of BL Dojinshis. I looked on a site out of curiosity and got so many hits, with so many different ships. All these observations are very interesting to me now that I've watched this video.
@nagasrinivas-fg5lh
@nagasrinivas-fg5lh Год назад
Even one piece and naurto has female fans.
@animelly
@animelly Год назад
Is it just me or is the audio quality bad in this video?
@TheAnimeTea
@TheAnimeTea Год назад
The intro had to be re-recorded, sorry for the inconvenience! It sound should clear up about 30 seconds in.
@love94ever
@love94ever 10 месяцев назад
i used to rep the fujo card hard but afta it became an insult to the community i dropped it and loved BL within other bl spaces. back in the day i used to read pkmn doujin thru youtube vids :P as i've gotten older, i've moved away from focusing on love between shounen boys and sought out actually shounen-ai and stuff. i just hate sometimes how dubious and non-consensual the relationships start between the characters. this is definitely not an issue solely in BL but its enough of a trope to where you can see its pattern. i tink lots of ppl only assume straight women like BL but online the mutuals i had were lots of gay/bi men and genderqueer folks. They'd write a lot of BL from their perspectives too. straight women were there too ofc but you feel me. lesbian women don't openly admit to being BL lovers often (especially the explicit stuff :3) but i've encountered a few like myself! i love being able to see a loving relationship between men that you usually wont see in mainstream stuff, across all mediums.
@AngelAngel-yx5uz
@AngelAngel-yx5uz Год назад
Is the thumbnail supposed to say Now women changed Shonen
@user-kf6yt4mn9v
@user-kf6yt4mn9v 11 месяцев назад
I have seen a few of your other videos and I respect your work and think the way you talk about manga and anime is really intelligent and interesting! Having said that, I really need to point out that you are spreading a very common misconception. The Year 24 Group did revolutionize manga in many ways, but not my coming into a shojo manga scene dominated by men. The Year 24 Group themselves were inspired by female artists preceding them, such as Mizuno Hideo, Watanabe Masako, and Maki Miyako (among others; these three are just prominent and most famous). It's very, very insulting to these actual pioneers when English-speaking fandom keeps perpetuating the lie that men dominated before the debut of the Year 24 Group, because it is simply untrue.
@mistyreyesbackstory2392
@mistyreyesbackstory2392 Год назад
Hi! I just found your stuff and I really like it. I just wanted to say that I wish that you had mentioned that it's queer baiting. Going into queer issues in Japan would be a lot to add here, but also I would have liked to see it called what it is. As a queer anime fan, it gets really frustrating watching shows like Free and Sk8 that utilize romantic tropes when they never plan on following through with it.
@GraveyardMaiden
@GraveyardMaiden Год назад
I honestly wish she didn't defend fujoshis in this
@GraveyardMaiden
@GraveyardMaiden Год назад
@@zeldascroller Yep, like with fujoshis if the dude isn't a skinny light skin pretty boy, or conventionally handsome then their support ends there.
@luluanthem
@luluanthem Год назад
@@GraveyardMaiden Yes, anime as a whole has got a whole lot of issues running deep. But just as there are a lot of shoujo that romanticizes toxic relationships, abuse and misogyny, and a lot of shonen that finds s3xual harassment to be a joke and give female characters no agency, there are shoujo and shonen content that are amazingly written. If you don't think shoujo and shonen fans are inherently evil because they enjoy content that often have very bad misogynistic undertones, why do you think BL and GL fans are inherently evil because part of the content is filled with problematic cliches? It's an issue that should be criticized. The issue. Not the people. This is coming from someone who literally spent over a decade without consuming any anime content and came back to it having completely flushed out the horrible sh!t I normalized back in the day, from every single genre. BL wasn't nearly the worst, if anything, it's the one I have the fondest memories of, since I was introduced to many LGBT fans through BL and GL which, back in the late 2000s, was a hub of LGBT people who were also otaku. It helped me out personally, with understanding heteronormativity isn't the only reality, in a time when there was very little content being made for teens in the west with gay and lesbian themes (note: I'm not from the US though so maybe it was worse there). Many of my LGBT+ guy friends today still think of it as silly, but otherwise special. A glimpse into a world where this content could become mainstream. And now it is, and we've done better. BL and GL and its fandoms should do better, not cease existing.
@GraveyardMaiden
@GraveyardMaiden Год назад
@@luluanthem That's a lot of words for "I didn't read what you said, but I'm going to defend cishets fetishizing queer folks because I met some queer people who liked that stuff"
@luluanthem
@luluanthem Год назад
@@GraveyardMaiden That's very few words for "I didn't read what you said, what the video said, or what there is to be said by those who know about this topic, and I prefer to keep to my opinions and my yes bubble than to reach out or consider a queer person's experience with other queer people". But few words fit you better.
@gwynethelodie4575
@gwynethelodie4575 Год назад
Just putting this out there, but the collective term for fujoshi and fudanshi is fujin aka corrupted person. However, as a non-binary it makes it really convenient that I already get a nice gender neutral term just for me :D Boku wa fujin desu.
@willowsnsakura
@willowsnsakura Год назад
oh my GOSH I actually came to my computer to type this out because I have to V E N T. I'm in love with One Punch Man. I haven't been in it from the very start of the webcomic, but I started watching it a little after the anime came out in...2016 I think?? And I have been HEAD OVER HEELS in love with it ever since. I'm that fan with the billion blogs and the 400k+ fic and the hundreds of pieces of fan art and the years of cosplay and like.... When people see my phone background of Saitama and Genos holding hands--THAT I DREW--and ask if I like OPM, I just laugh and say "I like it a normal amount" because at this point I honestly cannot gauge what's a "normal" amount to talk about it. I didn't get into it because it's a series I'd naturally watch. I'm not a fan of long series with huge casts of characters. I'm not into shonen. I don't go for comedy. Action bores me after a while. I didn't even like looking at Saitama's face, and it was why I kept on turning my partner down when they told me for MONTHS to start on it. What pushed me over the edge was seeing cute ship art of Saitama and Genos on Tumblr. Eventually I just went, "Okay, there HAS to be a reason this is so popular and why people are telling me to watch it, and also I like the robot boy. Let's have a look." I watched the first episode, laughed a bunch and loved the gorgeous animation, saw Genos appear on screen for all of three seconds in the second episode, and literally DEMANDED we watch the next one immediately. I've been hooked ever since. It was the first series in an EXTREMELY long time that literally made my heart pound when I thought about watching the next episode. It's also been my first real experience with fandom, and it's been.... Man. I dabbled when I was younger with Kingdom Hearts, but I was so little and couldn't really connect with anyone. I was the same age as Sora was when I was playing it, y'know? I had limited computer access and no scanner or phone camera to upload my pics. All I could do was scour message boards and watch endless AMVs and analysis videos on RU-vid. With OPM, though, I just-- Fucking HELL I cannot explain how much being part of the shippy side of the OPM fandom has helped me improve every single facet of my life. (I'll explain why I specify "the shippy side" later.) My art has improved astronomically. It got me writing again after nearly a decade of abandoning that after having gone to school for it, and I honestly think helped me improve as a writer more than any creative writing class could. It got me through one of the deepest lows of my life. It helped me learn how to network, how to admin large and small groups, I learned to how to sew my own clothes and make wigs and I started going to conventions and traveling on my own and--like it taught me how to make friends again. I've been struggling with self-esteem after Tumblr kicked the bucket and then especially Covid, but it showed me I can put things of value into the world purely because they are things only I can make. I can't.... I literally do not have the words to express how much BETTER my life is because of fandom.
@willowsnsakura
@willowsnsakura Год назад
And it's not just me. OPM (at least up until the last couple of years, and again, I'll get to that later) has a reputation for being a particularly open and kind fandom, to the point where people would try to start drama explicitly because they were bored and left because no one wanted to bite. I've made friends from all around the world and we talk daily about everything, friends who've gone on vacation to Japan together and collaborated on countless projects (some sold at a whole fan-run con in Japan called ONE HUNDRED that's **JUST** for ONE's works!!!!). SO MANY PEOPLE branch out and try different things or say they were deeply inspired to simply be better because they started watching OPM. It's incredible. I'm really happy I got into it, and it's just.....a very inspiring, sweet, honest series. But this is a vent, right?? Well....after the ban of spicy shit on Tumblr, everything splintered. The fandom was just... I'm sure everyone went through it. We tried to stay together but it was so fucking hard. People who talked a lot to each other hid away in private discords, and then to post your stuff (because so many of us made art that you couldn't post anymore) you had to go to Twitter. Shortly after that, there was a massive amount of harassment being thrown everywhere by everyone in every series, and it just--you had to hide even more. It was a lot harder to connect and be vulnerable with people like you had been on Tumblr, because you were constantly looking over your shoulder. But what wasn't affected was Reddit. And that's.....a problem. Reddit..... They do yearly polls, and the people who interact enough to take them make it so the results say that it's 90% men between the ages of 14 to 25, largely from the US. That should pretty much tell you everything you need to fucking know about what that Reddit is like. Everyone I knew and talked to wouldn't touch that sub with a 50-foot pole. The only reason I joined was because I was watching more and more people who were very clearly new to the fandom or looking for different content--beginner artists, women and queer people, cosplayers, so on--getting harassed, insulted, reported, or talked down to. I got sick of just complaining about it to my friends, so I started trying to fight back against it, figuring I'd get banned at some point but at least SOME people would see me in their corner. I've gotten a lot of people who've messaged me to thank me, and luckily as it's grown (and I believe from the efforts of one past moderator in particular) it isn't...*quite* as bad as when I first joined. But from being on there for the past however many years, I found like.... They don't think women and queer people exist in the fandom. Like they just don't. They don't think they watch it, they don't think they read it, they don't think they make content for it, they don't think they buy anything for it, they don't think they're a worthwhile or considerable demographic for the fandom in any legitimate way, and if you're too loud they punish you for it. Everything you can imagine, people on there have said it. Why are shippers ruining it, women cosplayers are just fucking whores advertising for OF, if you're interested in anything beyond "who can't beat up who better" you're reading too much into it and need to shut up, fic is stupid, sex and sexuality is disgusting and gross and awful but you're only allowed to express it towards/discuss it in a completely non-queer way about the girl characters because you'll get reported and have your posts taken down if it's anything else. It's. It's AWFUL. It's absolutely not every single member on there--there are a lot of people I think aren't like that at all and there has been a LOT of push back recently--but it's the loudest ones and it makes the experience at best irritating and at worst miserable. And probably what's the most mind-bendingly INFURIATING thing of all is that they get PISSED when you tell them not only that they're not the sole demographic for the series, that they're probably a little off target at this point because it's all the women and queer folk who are buying shit and giving the franchise money (by the numbers--on that same poll I mentioned before, like.....only 25% or less actually bought manga, blu rays, or merch; meanwhile most of my friends have shrines dedicated to everything they've bought or made for the series, including several copies of figures and massive statues). Or that it was those women and queer folk doing SO MUCH of the archiving and sharing early on in the fandom to get it so wildly popular all over the world. Or that it's those people who are making the bulk of the fan art, fic, and transformative work that's generating so much renewed interest in the series. Or running the blogs for it. Or making the meta about it. Or attending events for it. Or basically just sustaining the fandom in any tangible way, at least on the Western side of it. Like--that sub currently has a MILLION members, and if you look at it right now, there are probably fewer than 20 new posts a day--with a third being recolors of manga panels, a third being fan art that's typically old and reposted from other sites, and a third memes. That's....fucking pathetic. I scroll on twitter for an hour and I run across at least five pieces of fan art I've never seen before. There's fic posted on AO3 daily. There's DEEP meta and analysis on Tumblr popping up constantly. And it's not that the people in that sub are happy about it--they complain constantly that it's stale, uninteresting, and boring. I try to explain it's because women and queer people--the ones who stick to the shippier sides of the fandom--avoid the Reddit because of all the harassment, and they're the ones making all the transformative work that would spice shit up....but again--they just flat-out don't think those people exist. I've needed to give fucking numbers before and someone had the audacity to say "well that's not the whole fandom, just the ones making content and I don't think that's most people," and it was like--WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU THINK A FANDOM **IS**?!! WHAT DO YOU THINK HOLDS IT TOGETHER? WHO DO YOU THINK IS ENCOURAGING A FANDOM TO GROW BUT THE ONES MAKING FUCKING CONTENT FOR IT?????
@willowsnsakura
@willowsnsakura Год назад
And the ONLY reason I'm so mad is because Reddit, of all places, is the last man standing when it comes to a widely-known, readily accessible platform for the OPM fandom to congregate. Because of how toxic, boring, and repetitive that sub is, I am **convinced** the only reason it's growing is because people can't find the rest of the massive fandom that's scattered across half a dozen other platforms in equally scattered, separate groups. Everywhere I go, I see people saying they wish there was more OPM content posted--AND THERE IS. IT'S EVERYWHERE. PEOPLE ARE POSTING. People want more merch!!! They want more anime!!! They are STARVING for content!! You just can't find them because they refuse to touch this one single site that had the good luck to not get fucking obliterated by buy-outs, that's unfortunately simultaneously overrun with nasty fucking bigoted sentiment, a lot of people who just seem to want to complain about how bad the series is, AND is the only place people can find a large gathering of fans anymore. Newcomers think that's all there is, and the fandom suffers HARD. I honestly think, even, that the series itself suffers a bit, because the only easy-to-track large fanbase (again, on the Western side of things, however much that might go into consideration) is a bunch of boys who are on the record as people who won't pay for anything, so there's no incentive to make anything. They don't see people hand-making wallets and purses and clothes, or doujinshi, or plushies, or jewelry, or anything like that. Gosh, and like--I don't think it's unrelated that I've been watching a huge spike in people harassing fans who make ship art, purely because it's ship art but targeting queer ship art waaaaaaay more than anything else. It's bad. It's BAD. I really, really feel like, because people can't find that large epicenter of transformative, women and queer-run fanmade content anymore, they think it just doesn't exist and feel justified in attacking it because clearly their voices are the only ones that exist and matter. Which of course, pushes those attacked fans even further into hiding, which makes the fandom feel even more small and stifled, which generates less long-term interest in it over time, which gets it on the general radar less...... It sucks. It fucking sucks. I have a lot of hope that this is a temporary trend, but it's happening nonetheless. And I bring it up here because it's specifically the kind of people who DON'T know about the history or trends in this video that are making this such a big problem. Like we just want to live our lives and spend money on our boys and see more content of the same series that they like!! We don't have to be enemies!! This can be a mutually beneficial relationship!!!! But there's so many fans who just want to own it and push out everyone else, even if it leaves everything a much less fun and enriching experience for everyone involved, including the ones gatekeeping in the first place. It's MADDENING. But yeah, sorry, massive vent is over. OPM is awesome, there's an enormous part of the fandom that's incredible that I genuinely think waaaaay outnumbers the toxic side of it, immature jerks are trying to make it not fun, they're not going to be successful but it would be nice if they understood the history and implications of what they're doing.
@nyapan7620
@nyapan7620 Год назад
@@willowsnsakura I'm sorry for responding to an old comment but I hope things have gotten better for you! I like OPM and while I somewhat knew that there was a shipping fanbase I didn't know it was that big. I really feel like one of the reasons why is that female and queer voices aren't made as visible and are just harder to find unfortunately. I also love looking at fanart but looking for it on Twitter is very impractical. Pixiv exists too but it feels like recently artists are migrating to Twitter which is sad to me. I don't go on the OPM subreddit since I'm not that big of a fan but I go on other subs and as a woman it feels lonely. The worst case for me is the Fate/Grand Order subreddit. Of course, the game itself is mostly targeted at a male audience being that the franchise started out as an eroge but there's still an interesting story with impactful moments and some good looking men to appreciate. However the subreddit is just filled with sexualized women and harem fantasies. The game encourages that too and I don't think there would be anything wrong with that if the men also got attention but that's not the case so I don't feel represented at all. All of that to say that I relate and that it sucks that Reddit is basically the only place to have organized and active communities nowadays.
@KurosakiRuka
@KurosakiRuka Год назад
I would be inrtested in a video where you evaluate on the bleach topic and how it got reviewed. As i girl fell in love with the manga because it had somany hints at somany intresting relationships, the beautiful artstyle and a cast with many strong and good written female characters, something that was lacking in other animes that were airing at the time on tv
@ClementineHime
@ClementineHime Год назад
I think this is why LezhinComics has blown up recently in years. The fujoshis and fudanshis dish out tons of money for content they like
@ChiWillett
@ChiWillett Год назад
Comment boost!!!
@blackjackal8770
@blackjackal8770 Год назад
your pronunciation of "yaoi" is correct now and thank you for that because it gets mispronounced as "yaw-ee" a lot and that's so cringe
@NAMEREDACTED-lg4bw
@NAMEREDACTED-lg4bw Год назад
Yeah lol
@jacobneale5844
@jacobneale5844 Год назад
The way I knew where this was going- I- 😭🤣 🏳️‍🌈
@ucd2465
@ucd2465 Год назад
women changed shonen forever when some girl bullied tatsuki fujimoto in university
@user-sm1jp4en9u
@user-sm1jp4en9u 3 месяца назад
Fujimoto was probably joking.
@pistachioracle
@pistachioracle Год назад
I have no idea why, but the clicking sound between cuts is enough for me to turn the video off. I’ve tried forcing myself to just “grow up” and listen, because you’re great at how you tackle these topics, but knowing they’re coming and not knowing when makes me so anxious. I literally took off my headphones halfway through the first one I watched and started to analyze what’s wrong with me.
@lietcai
@lietcai Год назад
I have to agree, I love this channel but the audio mixing is kind of iffy. The speech is too quiet and unclear and the clicking noise is way too loud. Great video content though otherwise
@NelsonWin
@NelsonWin Год назад
Fist of the North Star will always be the best shonen. 💖
@g2.a6
@g2.a6 Год назад
Fist of the North Star? More like Fist of the Peak Fiction
@NelsonWin
@NelsonWin Год назад
@@g2.a6 peak fiction? For what?
@g2.a6
@g2.a6 Год назад
@@NelsonWin *everything* 👊💥🙏
@NelsonWin
@NelsonWin Год назад
@@g2.a6 r u ranting or messing with me?
@g2.a6
@g2.a6 Год назад
@@NelsonWin just joking a bit. I agree with fist being best shonen
@Timeless14
@Timeless14 Год назад
Hm.. "basic boi" channel posted about the same topic a few weeks after you and you both share a pretty similar video thumbnail style 🤔 curious if you're tracking that.
@itsbasicboi
@itsbasicboi Год назад
Huh, Phoenix and I covered very different topics. If you're talking about my “the shounen urge to be... shoujo?” video, I specifically talked about performative shoujo content on TikTok and the misgendering of shoujo. Phoenix discussed Fujoshi culture and how aspects of shoujo influenced shounen. Creators topics naturally will overlap and I had no idea she was making this video, nor did I steal this idea from her. As far as thumbnails, many commentary creators have a similar method to creating thumbnail designs. I've kept a similar format for the past 18 months I've been on RU-vid.
@TawnyGryn
@TawnyGryn Год назад
doujins for established xcter are a no-go for me. .... if it isn't Canon I look elsewhere
@ciara251
@ciara251 11 месяцев назад
Im bi so I personally enjoy "pretty boy" men myself ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@wesleywyndam-pryce5305
@wesleywyndam-pryce5305 Год назад
Shonen and shojo are the epitome of pointlessly gendered imo.
@shay_shei
@shay_shei Год назад
I’ve been thinking this for the longest time now.
@mr.beater2064
@mr.beater2064 Год назад
Yes I don't know it should have been separated by gernere. Like action romance
@danieladamczyk4024
@danieladamczyk4024 Год назад
Yes, i was looking for someone to tell this too!
@alvinsmith3894
@alvinsmith3894 Год назад
Can you cover yuri as a genre? I know it might not be of your interest but I keep seeing it as being left out when BL is talked about or even shoujo. It's sadly categorized as porn because of common western misconception. It's toxic how people keep desexualizing AND oversexualizing it as a genre, as well as the relationships in it. It's plain as day to see that it's not just "friendship" THE GENRE. But people insist on pornifying it too. In the end the root of it is just due to people not seeing lesbians as people :( It's so damn toxic and sad that even young lesbian fans don't understand what yuri is and think that most of it are male writers when it's the opposite. :(
@himelotus159
@himelotus159 11 месяцев назад
I'm a big fan of American comics even classics there was a lot of pretty or even handsome superheroes. Tite Kubo and Horikoshi draw that in their manga when they draw thier characters. I read shoujo and I feel they look nothing like these boys. Thats just my opinion. Before you come at me I'm a women myself. I also disagree in regards to shippers responsible for Bleach's return after it ended the RU-vidrs I followed were mostly men. Fanfics and fanart is not the same as manga sales.
@missvoguene1
@missvoguene1 Год назад
because those scenes(if you know you know) in blue lock aren't straight-up(pun intended) queer-baiting. right.
@danieladamczyk4024
@danieladamczyk4024 Год назад
Shojo and shoen aren't opposited. They different views on world.