How Should We 10X the Hobby!? Interview with Rob Veres of Burbank Sports Cards 

Easy way to grow the hobby: make wax more affordable. hobby boxes should be $150-$200 for prizm, optic, etc. even at that price you are rarely going to get your money back. But that’s the price where your average collector is going to rip wax and enjoy doing it. It’s when we get burned on a $500 hobby box with $20 worth of useless rookies.

The first person that Geoff interviewed that gets it. It is a hobby and investors are not as important as they think they are.

Well done interview! The call and response here was natural and resulted in great conversation. Rob's point at 25:44 is something savvy hobby professionals should leverage to their advantage.

I’ve known Rob since the 80s. It’s been crazy to watch his success over the decades. ❤

This Rob guy seems incredible, he’s got it figured out and is in it for the right reasons. Refreshing to see he’s not in it for the “sports card investing” part of the hobby and sticks with its roots. Less investors, more hobbyists will def grow the hobby 👍

Great interview, so great to see the perspective and insight from a long time LCS owner and force in the hobby. Excellent job fellas.

Love Rob's approach. I got to work at Burbank for awhile 20 or so years ago and it was the experience attitude that re-sparked my love of the hobby and drove home the importance of doing it for the love.

Great interview. Focusing on the hobby and how to incentivize collecting is the biggest thing. Very smart guy and business man.

If you want to 10x the hobby first you need to cut the price of hobby/retail boxes in half & reduce making so many parallel cards. If overprinting get out of control soon we'll see 1/1 in the $1 bins.

Thank you guys so much for the intelligent conversation. This is much needed and we don't see it enough. Keep up the great work!

Great interview - that's as informed and candid an interview that I've seen anywhere in the hobby. I agree with Rob - this talk of 10x-ing the hobby is fantasy. Even 3x-ing, frankly. The reality is that we had a perfect storm during the pandemic, and a lot of talented people from other parts of the business world (retailing, hedge funds, tech, etc.) piled into the hobby on the business side thinking that we were in the early innings of a long-term, secular supercycle in card collecting. That was the fantasy. The reality is that it was a bubble, it burst, but the centimillionaires and billionaires who went all-in on this biz can't and won't admit that they were wrong about their basic premise for the industry. They should stop trying to re-inflate the bubble through the hype cycle and instead focus on hanging on to the new blood that entered the hobby the past few years while trying to grow the hobby moderately, sensibly & sustainably through what Rob is suggesting in this video.

Amazing interview! Yes, it's about collecting and the hobby. Burbank is such an awesome place!! Rob is great. The card show on Labor Day weekend is going to be amazing! Thanks for such an amazing interview!!

Good conversation. I really like Rob's take on the hobby.

Incredible interview! Has my wheels turning for how to start a card shop that will positively impact a community and the lives of those within it. Great stuff!

Pretty refreshing hearing from a card shop owner that is all for the customers having a great experience and getting good value over it all being about high profits and the customer be damned. Wish I had a Burbank sports cards shop in Australia I would give them all my business.

Rob is one of the few true thought leaders in this hobby. Very good interview.

Fantastic video and Info. Love the insight. Very true and important for everyone to hear.

From about 4:55 to about 5:30 I think Rob is actually talking about Geoff.

Great episode. Burbank has the right ideas.

Very informing. Thanks for this geoff!

Rob is from my neighborhood In Brockton Massachusetts Born an raised! 🎯💪🏼🔥

Outstanding interview.

Yes need more collection collectors.. build player sets.. Most everyone classifies low numbered/numbered cards and auto cards being the only cards to buy and everything else just sits. $5-$20 cards are nice also! Hope things do change toward collections too

Hi Geoff this is Michael from California I i really like your RU-vid videos with Rob from Burbank sports cards I really think Rob hit it right on the spot and I Michael really think we need people or persons that work at card shops or card stores that are employees need to do it for the love of the sport and sports that are knowledgeable and trustworthy and not just doing it for money I understand card shops or stores need to make a profit but not the outrageous money or profits and lots of adult teenagers and kids do 25:4not want to have to buy sports cards or sports products on the internet or online because it take the fun out of going to sports cards shops and stores and I will not buy sports cards or sports products on the internet buy you do not really know what you are getting or what condition the sports cards or sports products are and you are going to put spots card shops and stores that are honest and trustworthy out of business it we keep heading in this direction thank you Rob and Geoff

Great interview, Geoff 👏🏼

Great interview. Hobby’s in good hands

Great interview Geoff 👏

Great video! I agree breaking is killing the hobby

not by buying Will Grier and James Harden.....

There needs to be card shows everywhere in each state, there are no shows in NYC, plus cards need to be available to buy. A lot of retail stores don't carry anything. An average collector can't spend 500-600 dollars on boxes of cards. Prices need to drop so anyone can get into this hobby space.

We need more hobby shops. So many markets don’t have decent hobby shops. As a kid, I enjoyed buying single packs and opening them with the people in the shop. It provided a community that you can’t get through online breaks.

Spot On Rob! me an the Boys would shovel 10 driveways in the winter an we would walk 2 miles in the snow to the card shop downtown, to spend the earnings together! And or mow 10 lawns in the summer an ride our bikes to do the same! smh I miss those days, I really do it was wayyyyy before social media when life was pure Pleasant, real, Honest an fun

Screw Breaking! Screw Investing! Set Building! Understand the game. Read the cards. Enjoy the H-O-B-B-Y!!!!!!!

1 find a print run that keeps value up and chase cards in each. 2 make rookies only base and do 2nd year every other variable ie: # cards , autos, jerseys. 3 make a precise selection of sets pick a number of releases per year. 4 do away with retail stores selling make hobby shops sell everything and hard prices set on all products. Basically make the hobby better by having a price guide system like beckett or tuff stuff had. Graded should be hard x number based on grade off raw price available.

Take it from someone who fell into the breaking world and lost A LOT of money, he's right about breaking. Nobody can keep losing like that. It is a fun option from time to time, but you have to have a lot of discipline and self-control. His buyback/break credit idea is actually a great idea. But the breaker would then have to be pretty good at valuing and moving cards to be able to do that.

I think the Hobby is beyond the Hobby Shop experience. I just got back into the hobby after 30 years and haven't bought one card or box from a shop. I think with social media, access to purchase/sales data, online auctions and grading data, it opens the door to a whole new buyer/investor. Mom and the kids are great, but most kids go through a phase just like I did and if it wasn't for RU-vid I would've never made it back. Difference now is that I'm an adult with my own money and can afford cards I only dreamed of as a kid.

I really enjoyed the episode, but is seems a lot of the thoughts on how of grow the hobby is more focusing on people already in the hobby. My thinking would be to focus on kids or anyone else that isn't in the hobby. I have a ton of common cards and was thinking of ways to just to get rid of them. I thought what if I bag them in team bags and just hand them out to kids or who ever for free at events (craft fairs, kids sporting games and even card shows, any kind of gathering). Although most guys at card shows won't be interested in common cards, but for free they might. I'm just saying maybe we should look at people outside the hobby too, not just within. You never know, one kid might just say hey these cards are pretty cool and start collecting or a parent might say "hey I remember collecting these when I was a kid" and might get back into the hobby. Keep up with the great content! 🤙

First step: 🛑 the overpraising of PSA, it turns off millions of people to the hobby Cards >>> Grading Companies

BTW - that Devin Booker story is tremendous! That is a perfect idea!

Also, cards have to better presented. In 1972, Sonoco had a tremendous NFL football sticker set. You go get gas, get a sticker and round out the book. Toward team sets, offer a really cool binder to put the cards in; that would be really fun.

Tremendous interview. Loved every second of it!

too many bad breakers and bad apples in the hobby. change is coming. in store aesthetics is important. customer service will improve once we go through this downturn. @26:30 very cool

Do kids still use the Pokémon cards to play the game? Do they play with graded slabs?

Rob is classic and kindly Man and Jeff is pumped the Hobbies ❤🎉 Thanks Rob at once Time show Me back Rooms warehouse with all card tag up high

Love this hobby

A break doesn’t have to be gambling. It requires the right consumer/collector mindset and the right break structure (e.g. PYT). Done right, a break can be very collector-friendly. Unfortunately, those aren’t the ones that get attention.

Rob is the hobby goat tbh and i have stayed in this nkt buying a bunch of boxes anymore its about going after the players you want to collect

To me the biggest problem in sports cards is unresolvable. Let's say that I am opening a 2023 panini basketball card set (whatever that may be). You would prefer getting a Scoot Henderson or Brandon Miller RC ahead of getting a Joel Embiid card or Nikola Jokic after his first championship card. When we were kids, we loved pulling the Fran Tarkenton or Roger Staubach card or collect the All-Pro cards.

great video… tho those big mics u r both holding is kinda strange looking… not seen a mic that big since the 80s ??? :)

Interesting take...don't disagree when it comes to we know more hobby shops but Rob's focus is how to grow HIS business 10x versus the hobby growing 10x.

Haha 10mins in, Rob explaing how gambling isn't the way to go , Jeff's kid ripping fotl boxes and pulling a pedri😂😂😂

Awesome

Here’s an idea get a selling platform that only allows listings of numbered cards or SSP with filter by pop count etc

Wise words from the Card Fatther!

The only way to multiply the hobby is definitely going to rely on end user experiences. Great example how that collector had a chance to speak with her hero. If Fanatics follows similar patterns and use ideas like you brought up to build up sets for exchange for experiences it better than trading up for a better card, as card prices are always capable of falling. Experiences have an intrinsic value that card prices can’t justify. Hundreds of pro athletes and thousands of college athletes could be placed on contracts to be apart of the exchange. Take the fans out of stand and get them on the sideline , now that’s a powerful motivator for a lot of fans .

Open a place daily or weekly for trade days and nights

He's on track about Mom. Talk to a Mom of a kid who was into cards for a little while, you won't hear good things. Need to change that.

The base cards need utility that is severely lacking. Complete base card set bounties for a nice redemption card would create a huge impact

I been a collector now for 23 yrs. Diecast cars , then cards , then toys, then any vintage collectables. Any hobby are only as good if the younger generation appreciate it also. This will sustain hobby for the forseeable future. Do not get me wrong their is some upside and for sure the downside of hobby collecting. That is why i say i spread my way of collecting all over. When one is down just maybe the other hobby will cover the down time of anyone of my way of collecting intrest. All hobbies should be a long term investment and you must always like the buy , at least if others do not appreciate it , you will always have that appreciation.

Geoff, people need competition for getting the business up. and specially prizes and buyback programs. Also we need card shows in various countries. ex India, etc

Best way to 10x the hobby is for Jeff Wilson to leave the hobby. Get rid of “investors” and “pumpers” and other turds that are ruining the hobby that I love. Also, soccer moms are not going to 3x the hobby. Nerds are going to 3x the hobby. Not soccer moms telling their other soccer moms to go and buy cards. If card shops are going to level up the hobby, then why is Fanatics/Topps destroying card shops? Here’s a suggestion for how Fanatics can add more people to the hobby, MAKE CARDS AFFORDABLE!!! Doesn’t that sound more reasonable than Jeff Wilson investing or Rob sitting there with 40 million cards???

This guy knows his business. Great interview.

They matched outfits!

I think this man is my twin, I have been saying some of these points for decades everyone rips them but don't want to buy them, and over production of cards that flood the market and make big cards prices plummet

Yesssir thats why we do itt

i love how everything rob said that was hurting the hobby ,was exactly what geoff was doing in the beginning of the boom

I totally agreed with his take on how we lost people with the inflated experience during the pandemic . At the same time the hobby does not need these quick flippers who don't really get the fun experience of the hobby.

Just wait till Next Year!

I just got back into the hobby this year after a decade of holding a medium sized PC. The barrier for entry to actually have a chance at a quality card nowadays is laughable. Ever tried to pull ANYTHING of value from a retail box? There are unicorns but mass production, quality control issues, and the lack of small local markets are making it too tough to do organically.

Very curious as to why you pronounce all words with a "T" as if it were the letter "D"?

Dude @13:15 got a verbal write up after this video.

Fanatics needs to bring the prices back down to earth and GET RID OF REDEMPTIONS!!!

The hobby is in trouble. When a new box is worth $750, $800 etc…. No mom or dad is going to buy that. Food, Bills are more important.

How many times does Geoff Wilson say yes or yaaa over 100 Geoff Wilson got schooled big time. Your knowledge came throw on this one 😂😂😂😂😂😂

Mom said: "ONLY…hobby shops hold the key for a amazing new family experience." 2035

Bad news. You've seen the top and its all downhill from here.

rob gets it! thehobby

I can tell you how to 10x the hobby simply. We NEED other products or certain card sets to be worth as much as some of the more popular ones, no reason certain cards just as rare should be worth less when they are printed on same card stock at times. Rarity needs to be treated as such and it should never be affordable considering how hard it is to attain certain cards

10x by doing more internationally. Like Japan and Australia. Get services closer here.

Now talk about Fanatics staging loaded boxes.

We Gotta Unearth 10x the Treasures

He was talking about you Geoff Wilson on people talking about all your pump and dump junk your the issue it's not a investment it's a hobby take a back seat this man knows his stuff take notes and learn Geoff your a rookie

THIS MAN SPEAKS THE TRUTH!!!!!HE IS NOW HOBBY JESUS(Herrera)😮!!!!that better? LMAO

Awesome show. You have to expand the hobby. With more sports, Womens and men’s tennis same with GOLF. Take, for instance, Tiger Woods. I’d put him against basketball goats, baseball goats football goats. But vendors don’t promote his cards. The young guys coming up in GOLF no promotion on their cards. The hobby will never grow just on 3 sports.

Wax way too expensive vs $ amount of cards inside on average. Main thing that is killing the hobby

Was the black shirt and jeans planned or what?

It’s not all about making profits this hobby is about collecting

If you want more great LCS you have to get them product that people want. If you limit them from breaking and only for your “preferred vendors” no one will buy from the LCS. If they just think it is all junk and the only way to get great cards is through breaking you enable gambling and the moms and dads will kill the business.

Geoff, havent you done enought damage to this hobby. Please get out!!

Great show and insights. Gambling is how WE grow the hobby. It is NOT collectors. And that is fanatics plan since day one. Sorry to tell you the truth. Fanatics didn't buy expecting to grow collectors. Burbank is great example of a unicorn who thinks the world is roses and rainbows and it's not. Completely disagree on more hobby shops. Sports cards are gambling and collecting is the silver lining. If there are odds on the box, you are selling a game of risk. The future of the hobby is more gambling and less middle men IMO. Burbank will do fine, but they are the unicorn. Burbank is a card pawn shop. I would bet not everyone selling to Burbank is leaving happy. What has Burbank done in the past 5 years to make the hobby better? How have they decreased crime, fakes, awareness, etc? IMO.... they have made a lot of money and built a great brand. 16:00 - when moms notices you are buying cards and screaming when the players doesn't do well and they lose money they are going to ask how did gambling get into cards. Wake up! You are pushing gambling. In summary, I wish I was wrong, but sports cards are gambling on gambling, not collecting.

I think you're forgetting Dad. Dad is the one who will open the wallet more.

I find it interesting how the “true collectors” want to take an altruistic approach but don’t realize that the hobby is built on those that perceive inherit value in these items. Flipping is what sustained the hobby. You can’t have a hobby without value.

Your teaching your kids how to gamble great job super dad LMFAO

"How Should We 10X the Hobby!?" jfc lol.

Please stop saying it's "Moms" introducing the kids into the hobby, it's actually the "Dads". Please speak realistically. While I do know that there are women in the hobby that are mothers, the vast majority are fathers. Also, this hobby is also for the working folks who invested thier money into it. Kids are not the lifeblood of the hobby, we working folks are. Kids are simply the hope and future of the hobby. Let's get real, people. Smdh...

Hobby is full of degenerate gamblers and whats worse they are gamblers who try their hardest to justify the gambling. Thats why you see words “investors” “hits” etc. . They are also the reason why boxes are expensive, somehow they are now the target market of companies

You can tell that geoff doesn’t really listen to what Rob is saying because he’s million dollar 💵 rich man who can buy he’s kids or any card they or he wants. But Rob knows more. When a kid now wants to enter the hobby and goes into a card shop and a pack is going for $150. Good luck. That kid has no options.

Liquidity! Exactly! Money needs to be able to be circulated! I loved the term “used lottery tickets”= overproduced base! GET RID OF RETAIL PRODUCT! This stuff has NO EXPERIENCE, does not get people into hobby shops, does not educate collectors, encourages hoarding and secondary markup, incites intimidation/violence, AND creates a base card GLUT! I like the fact that he says card shops have to hustle. . . So do COLLECTORS! “Investors” don’t like to hustle, but want to do things easily. The hobby should be a grind, where everyone’s money matters! For example, white sparkle or blank slate is stupid! Every component of a product should be able to be pulled from regular hobby products with equal opportunity for everyone. Part of the liquidity is you don’t need grading for most things. The junk slab era is the reason why we have these outrageous wax prices. The wax prices are based on pulling all PSA 10s! I’m sure he would agree with the saying, Buy the card. . . Not the slab. Last funny one was how he attacked the of “recent comps.” Comps are a joke- it is RARITY AND REPLACEMENT COST that should matter.

10x what? Fanatics' profits? I already lived through one junk wax era.

If they wanna help the hobby, tell kids to not buy raw cards online/eBay. We all know dealers make a killing by dumping their crap online by using camera angles, glare, different lighting, or scratches on a sleeve to conceal imperfections/damage. The industry at large is unscrupulous or outright fraudulent.