How Should you Adjust to a Crusher (big winner)? 

No I’d just vomit

Never in the hand with 3s. But if I was I would base it on the players vpip. It’s a boat or bluff and there ant a lot of good bluffs on that board. I call against rec player every time tho due to they could be over repping a flush

Ofc. Vs rec player, it's usually pretty face up. Vs pro, it's more meta. Wet flop and with bottom set I'd lead out 1/3 pot in hopes for a raise. Not blocking top pair. I'd also raise turn after guy behind me calls, board is still draw heavy and way more likely to be up against 2 pair than a set of 8s or 4s from straddle. He could even have some offsuit varieties since he's closing action. On river, if Villian had a boat, what hands is he targeting for value from hero? Does hero lead out on turn vs the entire field with a flush draw? Prob not. Hero looks like a JX hand. Villian sees this. Therefore, would Villian jam with a boat to get value from a J when the flush gets there? No. Thus, river sizing is awfully suspicious and looks like some kind of squeeze play gone balls to the wall or move to push hero off his hand and NOT value.

At the river, sometimes you know there is a chance you are beat, but you have to do the math make the call and live with losing some. Lack of a pre-flop 4bet allowed the J4 to be in the hand in the first place he was already in for the straddle.

@@tightlines7 Yeah, for me I would have either raised or folded 33 from the SB pre-flop. A call allowed too many players after you to be getting the right money to see a flop. It worked out well but it could also have gotten the hero stacked.

I very much agree. Well fucking played by both. Holy damn.

Agree 100%

Yup, creative bluff. 33 is top of range so got to call and see if your beat. GG

@@ryanseago2443 that’s correct hero has a ton of both missed draws J’s and flushes he can fold. He can’t fold any of his FH’s to a good player even at this sizing.

I've been in this situation where my high pair low pair two pair gets counterfeited by the board pairing, making it top pair board kicker, and thought about how it would actually be an incredible bluff spot because you block 10 combos of sets turned full houses, and 4 combos of two pairs turned full houses. I think in hands where a lot of action has happened making ranges very strong, I have to turn it into a bluff now.

@@alanchen7593 especially on boards were there is a front door fd.

I'm not sure! How many people make huge bluff raises in this position? That said, villains overbet makes it more likely it is a bluff, possibly!

Loses to these combos of full houses: 1 combo of JJ 1 combo of 44 6 combos of 33 4 combos of J8 (maybe less) 1 combo of 48s 2 combos of 38s for 15 combos, Blocks these combos of full houses: 5 combos of JJ 5 combos of 44 2 combos of J8 ~1 combo of 84s for around 13 combos. I think it's one of the best hand selections for bluffing, but my question is is there enough action for bluffing your top pair? I think some flushes, particularly nut flushes, make the call, so with this action, I would maybe chill unless I also had the 4 of clubs. I think hands that stay in the check raise on the turn are top pair decent kicker or better, all of which beat your shitty top pair. The problem is if you check back, you beat very few hands because the obvious front door flush draw hits. I think the river shove into multiple people can get people to fold trips and worse, but I don't think trip 8s make it through the turn check raise, so out of hands you beat, you only fold out overpairs and strong jacks, which I don't think are enough of your opponent's combinations to make it worth it. I'm not sure how many people are folding flushes in this spot, which makes it a hard spot for me.

@@alanchen7593 it seems pretty unlikely hero would have JJ, that has to be 3 bet from the small blind. And J8, 48 and 38 are surely fold? I’m never playing those hands from SB with a BB and straddle left to act and facing a 10 BB preflop open.

Yeah I feel like the caller never has a lot of those combos from the small blind, even J8o is a bit of a stretch for me to believe. Case 4s and 8s, and then 6 combos of 3s. I'm no pro but I think if I had the nut flush in the callers spot I'd really want to fold if I'm not blocking any full houses, even though maybe we're meant to call if our opponent is playing optimally.

@@graemec2769 there’s only 3 combos of 3s left in the deck. So yeah, only 5 total combos of full houses I think hero can really have. Which, as you say, probably means you have to call with some nut flushes against a strong villain. I kind of like villain’s bluff, it’s definitely ballsy. Although it only makes sense if he knows hero is a solid player that can fold a lot of flushes.

His hand (bottom boat) and nut flush are basically the same strength, as Paul was saying, which is why he’d call even that too

@@nathanlunsford7110 is villain doing this overbet shove with 33? If so that’s one reason why it’s better to have 33 than the nut flush here.

@@nicks210684 villain is polarizing himself with the shove so yes he’s doing this with 33s full. Point is the hero was saying if his hand is downgraded to nut flush, that means there’s one hand more that beats him (33s full) which is still not that many hands that beat him compared to his original hand 33s full

Well…. hes right

Ikr?? Snap call ☎️

@@moneymikz i HaVe a BoAt sO i CaLl. fish comment. :)

@@ortodary2825 I'm pretty sure the only boat I've ever folded was bottom boat on a double paired board but I only play 1/2 and there's way too many players that would over play the nut flush or any flush here at my stakes so I would have to call. I would consider folding if villian was an omc or a competent tight reg. tho

Usually it's bull shit

A min raise really doesn’t look like a draw that wants villain to fold

@@enjoyenjoi96 Fair point. Guess I was just building the pot.

You're overthinking it. Villain had a boat and you had a boat. Boat over boat is incredibly rare and he's losing most of his money pretty much everytime.

@@jeremyhahn3612 Probably right, its just that he tanked a long time before calling and I don't think I could have gotten a call with an all in donk bet on the river had I not acted on the turn. I could be wrong.

Ok, so the villain went for the Doug Polk double blocker "burn your money" bluff. Didn't work for Doug, didn't work for this guy.

Not really. It's a standard call, but still bit of sigh call.

You should be folding most of your flushes here to this sizing. I call with AcXc and probably fold everything worse of the top of my head but it’s possible you are actually supposed to fold some of your nut flush combos.

@@ortodary2825 Is villains J4 supposed to shove, how often? ty

Lol if you have AK/KQ/QJ... etc in the small blind after the button flats..... christ almighty.

J4 suited preflop is a call to a 5x raise these days?

@@DWill8PG with 4 flats, it might be

@@sean3533 Questionable at best it's a garbage hand.

@@DWill8PG In the straddle with that many flats in front of you? Why not.

@@DWill8PG pot odds

While I am not ever folding this hand as played. I dont think that logic is too great. Making a speculative call for a couple of big blinds may or not be a mistake, if it is, it is a small mistake. By the river you could be making a massive mistake for exponentially more money by always calling any bet on any street, just because you called pre and flopped a set. If you call with 33 from the SB, are you always calling a river jam on AQ3KK?

@@mjriemen depends on the situation and how deep I guess. if the river jam came from the BB or straddle and they weren’t the PFR I’d have a hard time folding 33 on that board. I’d expect AA, KK, QQ, AK to 3 bet preflop. I guess KQ or K3s is possible. But they could also be a fish overvaluing JT or Kx. Or a competent player running some bluff.

I would think, if I am in a tough game, either my play is to try to play gto approximation and grind it out until one of us loses mental or emotional control and spews, or I want to represent that I am at level x in my poker career/mindset, and get him to try to play level x+1, but I reverse my bet sizing and timing tells. In a tough game you would pure fold 33 from the SB unless you specifically thought you could induce strong players to stack off with two pair for value, or bluff drawing dead, because they thought your range was capped and you couldn't have sets/boats, but now you do. Which requires you to have already cultivated or ended up with a straightforward and tight postflop image, which is a pretty deep play since it will cost you so much money to cultivate it. Usually when we deviate and call oop with 33, it is because we think villain is a fish who will basically pay us off, but we will have to do the betting. Perhaps here we called for implied odds vs fish, but ended up getting action from a pro in a spot where our boat is just a bluff catcher and now we have to decide if he is capable, but that wasn't plan A. We aren't calling so we can bluff catch OOP vs strong players. But if that happens to be the outcome, well, then, the strong player probably is capable and we don't have many hands stronger than rivered boats to call down with here. Obviously on the most terrible boards like 4 flushes I could fold but this is not that case.

A competent player playing that wide just means majority of table is playing tight against him and rightly so with that river bluff.

@@Andrewlvna So if the whole table plays tight you should play J4 suited?

Sure, it is a load of crap. He cannot be a big winning player; particularly not with that insane river bet with two top pairs. You can only lose here with that kind of bet, as no weaker hand would have called you. And you can lose HUGE only!??

@@pot_kivach160 make no mistake. His river bet basically proves he is a crusher. If you ever get there you will understand but most never will.

@@karlseastrand7678 crusher, certainly. Crushing his own stack. 😂 . And you must be a crusher!

you can be pretty sure that someone good enough to turn this into a bluff on river and bet 2x pot really is an internet crusher. There are not many but they are out there.

@@karlseastrand7678 🤦‍♀️😂

I mean lots of better hands are going to fold - the 2X over bet is to get a lot of flushes to fold IE KQc on down as the caller mentioned. When you are only against a few boats, most of the better hands hero had were sets and flushes. A pot sized bet is likely called by all flushes and 8s (although not that many 8s left in hero’s range).

So you think he value shoved over 2x pot with a counterfeit 2pair ? He's repping a boat while heavily blocking a lot of the possible boats and is only going to get called by boats and the nut flush ( which is still a sigh call since the villain polarized himself to boat or nothing. ) He just got unlucky hero was near the top of his range. You need to do some more research on MDF if u think 110% and 220% bet sizing will accomplish the same thing.

@@dontich well, depending on who you are (how you read him): no boat would’ve wanted any flush (nor a small boat) to fold here. So: NO BOAT is a clear option with 2x pot river bet. I would not put V on a flush either. (Front door flush draw would not played the hand V did). So, the only hands left are: 2 top pairs, triple 8s. Therefore: any flush would’ve called 2x overbet. Bad bluff! I know it’s easy to analyse it aftermath, when it’s all said and done. But that’s what differs high stakes from a small stake poker. The big guys get the right analysis on a line of fire in a few seconds. Minutes, the most

@@tylerhanson8179 “…he is repping a boat..”. Nope! He is trying to rep a boat. Totally unsuccessfully. (Please read my reply to Mike T. above).

@@tylerhanson8179 “…heavily blocking lot of boats..” 🤦‍♀️ So, did he?? 😂 . lol…no. Im not going to lose my time (nor logic!?) reading stuff like mdf.