Here's a look at just one way John Powell's music has changed since scoring Solo: A Star Wars Story with John Williams! Editor’s note: the footnote at 2:28 is a little confusing. The trumpets play in unison with the horns in the example shown but often play an octave lower. Either that or I was confused looking at the staff because the horns suddenly play in alto clef for half the score. What else do you want to know about the Hidden World score now the study scorebook from Omni Music Publishing is out?
@reptilianwild There’s plenty more HTTYD 3 coming! Third Date is an obvious choice, I’ve just realized since Powell did an entire Mix With The Masters masterclass on the cue I’d have to rewatch it and take a lot of notes. This will not be a quick or easy video, and I’m both excited about it and dreading it… As Long As He’s Safe is definitely also happening, in fact I’ve already written most of it. It’s just very heavy right now and somehow it doesn’t feel right yet. Stay tuned for more I am definitely doing soon!
Absolutely, that was the goal. I was just talking with Tim Rodier from Omni Music Publishing, and he said it was an interesting coincidence that Solo came just before the end of this trilogy to mature Powell’s style along with the movie.
I’ve always considered Powell’s trumpet writing and rhythmic complexity as being his key signature style and it’s so cool following his career and seeing how that aspect has approved upon every film with Solo really enhancing these techniques.
What a superb video! I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who noticed this drastic change in John Powell's style after Solo! HTTYD3 is so refined, so complex, demonstrating how crucial the study of orchestration, counterpoint, and other composition techniques is for film music! Good work !
I always noticed how hidden world changed from the last two, but it’s very fascinating to see exactly why. There were a lot of Melodie’s in solo that I identified as Powell’s work from httyd and now I understand the reason behind it. Great video!
You commented just the other day about HTTYD and Solo music, and now here you have both in one video! What a coincidence that I was already working on this one! What did you enjoy about it? What stood out to you?
@@FilmScoreandMore As obsessed as I am with the Solo score in general haha, what I loved the most is how technical the video was. You examined individual instruments and the music sheets themselves whilst turning towards the future in how it impacted Powell's work moving forwards in HTTYD. Although if there anything I could add to this video, it'd be perhaps a brief analysis of the score, focusing on what instruments are used and what meanings they create in combination and how they complimentary serve the screen.
@@FilmScoreandMore What I loved the most about this video in particular is how technical you were regarding the specific instruments used and how they work on music sheets. I don't know how to read sheet music myself so it was fascinating to see such a technical perspective regarding score composition. I also loved how you linked Powell's work to past and future, emphasising the timeless nature of his pieces in a sense. If there was anything I could add though, I'd love to hear your thoughts on analysing the pieces semantically, focusing on what meanings are created and how these serve the visuals they accompany.
@Vi0letRay Thank you, that’s great to hear. I really slaved over the detail in this one. It takes a lot of work to mock up all that music, and I got a little carried away with this one. Maybe in the future I could discuss the use of those instruments further.
I listen to john Williams score for the adventures of TinTin and I only listen to the suite of hook, but I have to listen to more of john Williams soundtrack.
I also noticed the trumpet's triplet in busy busy Berk when first listening to it, and I had to replay that part many times because it's so good! Thank you for breaking down the orchestration in such a detailed way, and I'm wondering will there be analysis on the use of other instruments in httyd scores in the future?
I’m glad you noticed it, it’s definitely a strong tool in this score! I probably will cover other individual instruments and sections in other videos. I already know how John Powell likes to use a few of them.
@@FilmScoreandMore I am a huge Williams/Star Wars fan, so I really like when those topics converge with the Powell/Dragons discussion. I have also heard Powell speak in interviews about how Williams influenced him, and it definitely stood out to me that HTTYD 3 had a new life and, as you say “refinement” that caught me as Williams-esque. (Powell also put out some choral concert music between films that gave him wonderful practice for all the choral work in THW.) Additionally, and controversially Solo is my favorite film score - period, because it combines Powell’s genius with the Star Wars thematic legacy and so much great Williams material. Powell treats Williams themes with more respect than even he does, the reorchestrations and rearrangements are awesome, and it makes for such a treat combined with Powell’s newly composed material, even more so than Powell’s purely original scores.
@karalewis388 Solo and Powell’s oratorio were both the huge factors that contributed to HTTYD 3’s unique sound. I absolutely understand you choosing Solo as your favorite. I know exactly what you’re talking about in terms of its own unique identity and reinvention of the classic Star Wars sound. It’s so new and old, classic and fresh. And it just works in such a unique way.
Very interesting topic! It's great to see how a collaboration like this can help someone grow and refine their work, even someone like John Powell! I really liked Michael Giacchino's score for Rogue One, but I'd love for John Powell to take over should Williams one day stop scoring for Star Wars. The pieces he wrote on his own did a great job at using the style of music that Williams has established for Star Wars as a basis. Overall he showed a good understanding for how Williams works and I'm sure getting to collaborate with Williams himself for some pieces of the score really helped achieve that.
I completely agree! I know Powell advocates for a Solo 2 (and of course he would). That particular movie seems unlikely, but it would be great to see him do another Star Wars project.
That “Exodus” gag cracked me up. Offsets the otherwise serious tone of the video beautifully. Lovely video, as ever. Was cool to see even someone as great as Powell learning from the Hollywood music GOAT. Definitely planning to try out that “extra trumpet backing the melody an octave lower” trick in my own scores. Looking forward to more great analysis and score dissections in the future, now that you have that third book to study!
Thanks! I’ve had the “Exodus” gag in mind since I first heard the track, I just knew I finally had an opportunity to use it here. I’m sure Powell learned a lot from Williams (and other mentors he’s had in the past, plus on his own). Tim Rodier from Omni indicated the trumpet trick has been used by others like Jerry Goldsmith, and I think it’s become more standard now. I just felt these two scores had a clear connection.
My theory on the doubling trumpet to the horns is that it's there to give the horns a little forward direction in color. The trumpet isn't really meant to be heard. I think this works well when you look at classicaly recorded scores where they tend to rely mostly on a 2 or 3 directional mic behind the conductor. In the original star wars films for instance (and yes I'm aware they used spot mics as well), the horns (save for a few moments, aka those spot mics) sound very distant, but the newer ones the horns sound a lot closer. try listening to the final horn fanfare at the end of the main title (just over a minute into the main title) and see if you can hear the difference between ep 4 and ep 7.
That makes a lot of sense, and it feels with what Tim Rodier from Omni said about them. Thanks for the specific notes and references, I’ll have to compare.
Thanks! I appreciate that! I’m always working on more too. Might even have some input on a vid from @filmscoreandmore too! 😉 Should I make a more in-depth dive video on this topic?
@@AndrewMerideth If you did, I’d definitely tune in! I’m a major Williams/Star Wars fan and tend to miss fascinating recording details as opposed to compositional ones.
I don’t think you’re meant to most of the time. It’s just meant to give more point to the horns, not to be identifiable as trumpet four aiding them. But I would suggest you just listen closely. I can listen to the same piece many times over years and continue to find new things. There’s too much for you to catch, really. It’s a ton of detail.
You’re right, I did have to simplify there. The trumpets are the same, but it sometimes has two tubas and I remember euphoniums being used. The more technical you get the harder it is to fit into context!
@ryanhartley211 You’re telling me, and I already knew the themes and motifs because I’m the one who wrote about them! This video would have come out sooner if I weren’t unpacking so much. Since you’ve been unpacking the book, what else would you like analyzed? Again, there’s just so much in it. I already have some bites and plans.
Brass sections are over exaggerated. Powell comes from the Zimmer side of things where ridiculous brass is the norm. Williams seem to have taught Powell that no, you don't need 12 horns because 6 does the task just as well.
While I do agree that Hidden World has more complexity, I think it's by far the weakest of the trilogy. The motifs get so complicated that they become hard to even identify. I disagree that this is more "refined". It sounds like it's trying too hard.
I understand where you’re coming from. However, you can’t treat this score as the same thing as the first two. More time has passed between making movies and it’s a different case. I picked a complex version of a theme on purpose, but there are many simple variations of all of them. The Village Hymn also has many simple variations, one in this video. And if course, the Hidden World Theme itself is a long but fundamentally simple and identifiable melody. It’s all there if you really just remain open to it. I recommend listening to Exodus as it reprises almost all the new themes and motifs in one cue tailored to the scene.
@@FilmScoreandMore Oh I can identify the melodies for sure, but I personally think that it's trying too much at once. I get that feeling every time I watch the movie. I prefer his older style more.
@muhammedzayan4399 I see what you’re saying. With that being said, The Hidden World score has just as many new themes and motifs as the other two do. It’s really not presenting any more new information than they are, and each has a specific role it fills. I’ll definitely be talking a lot more about it soon. There’s so much that will become clear if you stick around and give it a chance.
@@muhammedzayan4399I feel like the score is different, but that could be mistaken for worse, which it definitely isn't imo. Even though it felt a bit less simple than the first two, and that took some getting used to, eventually it grew on me and I may even like it more than the second one. I love the instrumentation and the feeling and everything that accompanies the Light fury especially. I think it also changes because of the story changing, so if you like bolder, louder villain music, look to the second movie, and if you prefer something that sounds more subtle and careful and cunning, listen to the third. I think even if the soundtracks sound different, they still suit their purposes perfectly. The plot is less simple in the third movie than it is in the first, and the music thoroughly reflects this. They both capture longing, fear, and adventure, but in different amounts at different places.
