I think as a general strategy the nuggets should pursue a heavy offense starting lineup and a heavy defense bench. The starting 5 already is arguably the best offensive starting 5 in the league, but 1-5 on the bench should be defensive studs. Caruso, Braun, Watson, draft a defensive minded PF, and get Drummond. So you’re throwing haymakers with the starting 5 and then during the non Jokic minutes forget about offense and focus on slowing the bleeding to an absolute minimum.
I do not think we should be afraid of going into the second apron because Booth doesn’t make any trades or acquisitions anyway. Might as well pay KCP and keep the starters together.
I agree, unless it effects our ability to resign AG since he is more important to what Denver does and there is noone on the roster to replace him, unlike KCP or MPJ.
@TengrisWill ..Watson isn't a PF, he will get physically bullied if you put him at the 4, so he is not a AG replacement. Braun is not a KCP replacement at all, he is not a consistent shooter and has shown no ability to do so. MPJ is the most replaceable starter especially at his price. The only solution is trade MPJ for picks and few to no players to reset under the apron.
@TengrisWill .. really? Jalen Suggs. 39.7% 3 point shooter, NBA All Defensex second team. SG/SF or Ayo Dosunmu, 40.1% 3 point shooter and will be all defense in two years, Keon Ellis maybe although he has a small sample size, Dean Wade, PF/SF, 39% from 3 and a legit defender. Averaged 5.6 points on 4 shots a game, MPJ averaged 16 on 13 shots a game. If you approximate shot totals in the 13 range for Wade you are looking at 16-18 points per game, FAR superior defense and have the same floor spacing. There are plenty of better cheaper options that you would be able to trade for. Or just go nuts and trade MPJ and try to sign OG Anunoby to a FA deal... totally blow through the 2nd apron. What MPJ gives you, 3 point shooting, average defender, no ability to create own shot, ok free throw shooter, no middy game, can be more easily replaced than KCP who is all NBA defender at a premium spot. Also, based on the Nuggets reliance on pick and roll, pin downs, and off ball screens, KCP could increase his usage and take 6-8 more shots a game with MPJ gone and become infinitely more valuable.
@@DavidJackson-fq9fn 100% Denver act fans act like mpj is the best shooter in world 😂 many guys in the nba that can 40% from deep & average 15 & even better defenders for way cheaper then mpj
Adam is wrong about the “going into the 2nd apron now is a death piece” argument. The cap is set to rise $10 mil per year for each of the next several years. All of the cutoffs - including the 2nd apron line - will rise with it. So the 2nd apron line in 26-27 will be quite a bit higher than it will be next season. And while the true max deals (which are set at 25% or 30% or 35% of the cap) will rise with the rising cap, the other contracts do not. And furthermore, there will be additional flexibility in other ways going forward. So no, you don’t let the talent take a big step back in Jokic’s prime by letting KCP walk just to avoid the 2nd apron in this one year.
37:26 I couldn’t disagree with Adam more about avoiding the second apron because you would lose a draft pick a decade from now. Now is the window to make every move to win, Jokic is the best player on earth in the middle of his prime. The organization needs to do everything possible to maximize the chance to win right now. The nuggets were a below average franchise before Jokic and will be after Jokic. Why would we waste any of Jokic’s time so we can hopefully be in the play-in mix in the 2030s? I’m sure Booth thinks he is so good at drafting players that we will still be contenders after Joker but no one sane agrees.
Let's face it, because of Jokic, everybody thinks they are great...including the front office, they think they gonna have chance to win after Jokic is doney which is just ridiculous
I also disagree with Adam. The draft pick bit only comes into play when you’ve been in the 2nd apron 3 of 5 years. So you can just have to avoid that 3rd year to avoid the draft pick penalty. Also, everyone should keep in mind the cap is going up $10 mil/year every coming year and each year that will raise the lux tax cutoff, the first apron cutoff and the second apron cutoff. Going into the 2nd apron this season doesn’t mean they are stuck for subsequent seasons. Getting cheap now is a mistake.
@@scooterk5 and the salary of player like jokic increase every year. That includes mpj and murray who will ask a bigger pay check. Weather Denver stay or not on 2nd apron the team is in a bad position if they dont make a move now. But booth is a idiot. When you have player like jokic in your roster. You only need 3-4 guys to develop. Nothing more than that if the goal is to contend. Right now they got atleast 5 and they still gonna draft 2 players.
I read in the chat the KCP doesn't have to score...you are right, but also, player in his position needs to be a threat, esp. from perimeter, you can't have 1 additional people on Murray or in the paint
Great stuff from the guest about Jamal max contract. They can always pay him the most, only thing they are risking, is Murray being a diva. But they always have the high ground, Murray can't get more money elsewhere and he can't have a better teammate then Jokic, just giving him the money makes NO SENSE. Wait him out, pay him as little as you can...that's how you win
Jamal has to prove he is worth the contract and he had not even proven to live up to his last one. Connelly was foolish to give both MPJ and Murray a max contract for potential.
The analysis shouldn't be who made a deadline deal and made the finals but who made a deadline deal which made significant impact in advancing in the playoffs ...remember we were ousted in the second round
You guys have to asess all this with the new media rights deal and how that changes everything. 10% max raise in Salary cap year to year, which also increases the aprons. Cap is set at 141 right now, it will go up to 170 in 3 years and 210 in 5 years. This will mitigate signing KCP, AG and Murray to long term deals.
Because it’s expectations. Doesn’t actually mean that Jamal is that good. Jamal has not given enough to warrant these expectations, especially now that the playoff myth has been destroyed.
@@melodyisdead503 so even if I agree with you it is still the case that Murray was expected to perform and was paid accordingly while MPJ was not expected to do all that much (and performed even less) is paid about the same which defies all logic
I agree, I personally think there’s a lot of hypocrisy when it comes to the standards MPJ is held to. For two years now in the playoffs he’s had disappearing acts. But the excuse is “he is the reason they beat the Lakers” which is laughable. Denver needs depth & they need a legit big man behind Jok. If they don’t get that & run Jok into the ground again by having to play him more than necessary to where he’s expired for the playoffs, if I were him I’d be pissed. If he wanted to walk after his contract is up I wouldn’t blame him one bit. Give the bench depth; give your best player proper backup 5 help; enough of this “the only way we can win is by walking it back” 💩. How well did walking it back work this year.? Think that philosophy will beat MN next year? Denver needs some new wrinkles & players to mix up the offense, and keeping the mediocre MPJ is hamstringing this club. Absolutely absurd that people think this spot up 3 pt shooter w a massive injury history is that critical to the Nuggets success.
@@-ac-8296 Because MPJ mostly did what we expected of him. He had a great regular season and he carried the lakers series. While Jamal is “injured” takes the most shots and does not setup our max catch and shoot guy. Then he’s also being arrogant and throws heat packs on the court, when things don’t go his way. He’s also, as admitted in the exit interviews, not taking things seriously (bad condition), has had a lot of injuries and always comes up short during the regular season. Finally we can also get rid of the myth of him being a playoff riser. It will all come down to the mean. Meanwhile mpj fought through some personal stuff, took the blame after game 7 and has a good work ethic. If you wanna trade any starter, it has to be Jamal.
It's just idiotic to pay MPJ $35m a year if you're not going to utilize him any better than the Nuggets do, leaving him standing around in the corner all the time and occasionally he'll dive to the basket. Then in the 4th quarter they just go to the Jokic Murray 2 man game and freeze him out 38% of the time! Absurd cap management!
I hate the “the wolves were built to beat the nuggets” excuse. They were built to stop jokic and our backcourt failed. What does that say about the nuggets?
Its a lack of IQ from players like Jamal & MPJ & just coach it was painful 2 watch when luka gets doubled his team knows exactly what 2 do as soon as luka gets rid of ball but some players on this team there iq is so low when they throw doubles at jokic there was so many great opportunities 2 score but the decision making from was just awful
DEN is Jokic...funny that winning the title made some people on the team thinking they are the reason...they should look at their rating net rating without Jokic, they are gleague players mosy
Can we stop with Jamal was hurt BS as an excuse. He felt he was good enough to play that excuse should be thrown out the window. He was not hurt in the Lakers series until game 5, and he played like shit. Murray is not a playoff riser like many want to claim. He is just as inconsistent even during last year's championship run.
A family member of mine today ran into Jamal Murray and he was cold and rude. All she said was "I want you to know we love the nuggets" it wasn't harassing and it was in the private confines of an elevator. He was cold and didn't even look at her or acknowledge her in any way. I'm very disappointed. It's not ok to be rude to the community to who loves and cheers you on. The people who have supported you in good and bad times. The least he could have said was "thank you" or smiled. Especially when she was with her 5 year old son. So disappointed. He needs to learn some respect and humility. Vogt, I think you should call him out
"they were good enough" - WELL... they WERE NOT. FAR FROM IT. And some of us were saying that as soon as season started. Nuggets WERE NOT and ARE NOT "good enough" as they are - to win again. Jamal declined, MPJ stalled and regressed, other teams READ Nuggets and are ready for them. Even with Bruce Brown - this team would not be "good enough". Everyone else GOT BETTER and improved their rosters. Nuggets lost assets and major pieces DECLINED. There are 2 paths going forward - 1. Accepting the "nugglyfe" and retreating to it (I never understood this "condition" nuggets fans are in, but it's there) - OR 2. Accepting that there's still a chance to shoot for BIG goals, as Jokic is still there, and MAKE SOME SIGNIFICANT CHANGES And... Why is "nuggets media" so obsessed with CBA/aprons/bs !?!? Is THAT the "media" job!? To be Ownership/GMs and FOs apologists!? That's a mindset of underachievers; "we have no money", "we're insignificant", "we're poor in the middle of nowhere", "we're just not lucky", "someone cursed us" ... NPCs spiel. If Nuggets want - REALLY want to win another title - they should ask and answer following questions HONESTLY: 1. Is Jamal Murray good enough? Is he on a decline and does he have a PERSONALITY needed to win? 2. Is MPJ "done" - is this "it"? Is there an upside? Is he at his ceiling? 3. Can Reggie and DJ really be contributors in a championship team? 4. What is Zeke Nnaji? 5. Is there ANY real potential (for a championship team) in Pickett, Tyson, Strawther? 6. Is PWatson EVEN close in his development - to REALLY contribute? How Nuggets "gonna handle it" re CBA/CAP/rules... etc - IS NOT SOMETHING FANS SHOULD BE BURDENED WITH. Again - "nuggets media" insisting on discussing this is just their que to find excuses for ownership/FO/GM. WE DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT. WE DON'T CARE. FIND A WAY, FIGURE IT OUT, MAKE IT HAPPEN. YOU'RE PAID TO DO IT. DO YOUR F*N JOB! But, if you're happy with few bucks you've made this season - with the full arena and marketing draw - and you hope to do the same this season - fine. Then we'll just disconnect.
All of the Mike banter always seems like a combination of excuses & cherry picking of data and what the guy is actually worth. For two years now in the playoffs he’s had disappearing acts. But the excuse is “he is the reason they beat the Lakers” which is laughable. Denver needs depth & they need a legit big man behind Jok. If they don’t get that & run Jok into the ground again by having to play him more than necessary to where he’s expired for the playoffs, if I were him I’d be pissed. If he wanted to walk after his contract is up I wouldn’t blame him one bit. Give the bench depth; give your best player proper backup 5 help; enough of this “the only way we can win is by walking it back” 💩. How well did walking it back work this year.? Think that philosophy will beat MN next year? Denver needs some new wrinkles & players to mix up the offense, and keeping the mediocre MPJ is hamstringing this club. Absolutely absurd that people think this spot up 3 pt shooter w a massive injury history is that critical to the Nuggets success.
Serious question, in a vacuum, is Jamal any better than much maligned Trae Young? I say no. They are both bad defenders. I would bet money that after a feeling out period getting to know how to play with Jokic, that Trae would outperform Jamal by a large margin. He would get to the FT line 2x more... 2x more assists... and would "unlock" MPJ.
Murray is not good, the problem is even though his mentality is bad, I struggle with any other player being paired with Jokic...I think it's risk no matter what...
people act like the 2man game is impossible 2 run with another PG and only Murray can do it with Jokic 😂 it’s jokics that’s most important 2 the 2 man game any PG could do it & replace Jamal & im tired of the 2 man game anyway kills other players on the court momentum & that’s mostly Jamal’s fault cuz he only wanna go isso or play 2 man game that’s all he know he doesn’t know how 2 run the show like a true PG
@@Munnnn8This playoff run has exposed Malone's faults as a coach and Jamal as an "All-Star" player. Jokic is everything and too bad his running mats are not doing their part.
Couldn’t disagree more. Trae Young playoff career stats are horrific from an efficiency, +/- net rating, OnOff, etc. his first year had good moments but his last 2 playoffs Trae Young horrid. 37.6% FG% 27.2% from 3 5 TPG - 11.9 Per100 +/- - 13.3 Per100 OnOff +/- Horrific defense. Jamal Murray 2020/23 Playoffs had one of GOAT guard stretches on way to WCF & title (in much harder West) over 39 game sample! 26 PPG 7 APG 5 RBG 1.5 Stocks 49/42/91 (53/51/95 in 4ths!) 19-24 playoffs (53gms) +5.4 Per100 +/- & elite +11.8 OnOff! Since 1997 playoffs (play by play era) only 1 player has scored 21+ points in a 4th quarter more then once! It’s Jamal Murray who has done it 4x!!!!! Even this past down playoffs (clearly not 100% but no one is this time of the yr so it still is what it is) he joined LeBron (2006) as the only player since 1997 to have TWO game winners in the same series (5 seconds or less)! Also games 5 (close out lakers) and game 7 (close out Wolves) he AVERAGED 34, 5 APG on elite efficiency. He def was not good overall in the 24 Playoffs, but even with down 24 Playoffs Murray last 51 Playoff games (which includes 7 series wins whereas when he didn’t play in 21/22 nuggets 1 series win) he’s still AVERAGING 25 7 5 1.4 stocks 47/40/91 20.2 PER (very good for a number 2 & this was even better 22.6 in 20/23) +3 Per 100 +6.2 OnOff. Nuggets this year when Murray played won at 61-62 win pace yet in the 23 games he missed they won at 47-48 win pace. I get the frustration with his health, and how he acts at podium at times, plus wasn’t his normal elite self this year in playoffs (he quietly had a great regular season when he did play with elite splits and per 100 stats just plummeted overall in playoffs which had been complete opposite 20/23), but as someone who has watch NBA basketball 40 yrs and studied the history of the game (Pacers season tickets in the family since 87-88 and pops went to many ABA games 67-75 when pacers were awesome) 20/23 Playoff Murray is about as great as it gets from an offensive guard perspective especially for a number 2! I looked it up on Stathead and Murray is the only player EVER over 39 game span to avg at least 25+ 7+ 5+ on at least 48+/42+/91+ splits. Steph Curry career Playoff splits are worse than 2020/23/24 playoffs Murray splits. I’m saying all this as someone who loves Jokic by the way. Trae Young is absolutely not the answer. Now if you could get Donovan Mitchell who is > in playoffs then Trae I’m all for it. Murray 6’4” 215 and when right can get any shot he wants while also have crazy finishes around basket. Meanwhile Trae Young is 6’1” 164 pounds! Thats small AF and won’t age well! Spida Mitchell has much better size like Murray as he’s 6’3” 215. I just always prefer the taller/bigger player all things being equal and players who have shown unreal heights.
I said 200 times...we need players who attack rim! We don't have them.... How sane person can think we bring same team and can win against 🐺 next year....or mavs... No f way!!! But hey what i know... Sure bring it back and watch Denver MUST trade mpj. They must do it...
