How the New Lima Hellfire actually works | DCS AH-64D Apache 

Another advantage of the strange flying behaviour of the lima is, that SAM systems like the SA-15 and other ones which are able to intercept missiles seem to have a harder time hitting their targets (at least in DCS)

Next step will be to implement a British “Brimstone volley datalink” in to Lima. If missiles could talk to each others , you could just unload salvo on enemy column and disengage even before shots has landed.

The missile knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where it isn't. By subtracting where it is from where it isn't, or where it isn't from where it is (whichever is greater), it obtains a difference, or deviation. The guidance subsystem uses deviations to generate corrective commands to drive the missile from a position where it is to a position where it isn't, and arriving at a position where it wasn't, it now is. Consequently, the position where it is, is now the position that it wasn't, and it follows that the position that it was, is now the position that it isn't.

This is perfect. You immediately started answering questions that I had but haven’t heard others address. Love your work!

I tested this new shiny hotness in SP, worked perfectly. Obviously as soon as I joined a server to hit a (sadly static) convoy they went haywire: every single missile fired at targets decided instead to go for an apparently very sexy car park close by. Not sure if it was a bug or just poor use conditions.

Thanks for the explanation. Very interesting to hear the logic within the system.

Thank you for making this informative video Casmo.

Great explanation. Also loving the new camera angle works in game.

Thank you. Haven't use them yet, but definitely gives me more info on how to use them.

Thanks for this video and explaining how the RF missiles work, when I posted a video on these missiles, I thought I was doing something wrong! Awesome training lesson as always.

Yeah, The instant I fired my First AGM-114L And saw it curve like that, I was stunned, and then it immediately occurred to me that it was likely necessary for Triangulation calculations, similar to how Vision and Depth Perception work in our eyes. Our ears + brain also triangulate sound using similar principles. Compare the extremely minute time difference that sound reaches the right vs left ears, and compute the direction of the emitted sound. This is why it's so hard to localize sound direction underwater, since sound waves propagate almost 3 x as fast under water our ears cannot differentiate. VERY COOL mechanism for the missile, although mine don't seem to be hitting targets as accurately as the LASER GUIDED

Thanks for showing us the way the Limas work Casmo :)

Great explanation as usual. Thanks

Excellent information here, thank you.

This is the video Ive been waiting for!

I feel like you made this video just for me. Thank you.

Thank you, very informative

I can see this potential being useful where say the apache is hiding behind a hill and can't crest due to AAA fire, but does know the enemies are near a larger hill the apache can actually see and fling the missile towards the general location and just let the missile radar do its thing. Indiscriminate fire but if you have to suppress a position it might work over needing to directly LOS a target.

The Missel Knows where it is at all times. It knows this because the Helo knows where it isnt. Another cracking video, great job.

The Limas have acted very strangely in practice on DCS, I’ve had times where they work great but I also have moments where even well within range, the missile will over/undershoot the target and hit dirt. Usually happens to me on targets BMP sized and smaller, where the smaller you go the more often I see it occur

SO glad I watched this before I start using those missiles. I totally would've been getting mad that the MSL wasn't hitting where I was lasing! :)

My main takeaway from this is that the missile knows where it is because it knows where it isn't

Thanks. I needed this xD.

Thanks Casmo.

So basically it is a "Fox 3" and the AH-64 currently is lacking the radar so only INS + Pitbull, if you put it into fighter pilot speak.

Thank you

🤨 And I always thought the Hellfire L could only be used with the AN/APG-78 Radar.

1. What's the inertial footprint (TLE) error margin? Will, say within 2km, the Lima JDAM a target? 4km? More? Is there a difference between LOBL and LOAL? 2. Will the system accept shootlists? Within the PBZ footprint, based on target store points? Or is this a radar requirement for the APG-78 to provide steering or TOF lagged engagements? 3. Will a Longbow Hellfire reject a target hulk? Shot out by an earlier missile, and begin a new target search? Does it work against small PCI naval targets like the Brimstone does or is there a speed gate/lateral motion limiter?

I found the same thing also, if theres a radar dish vehicle type vs a ural truck, it won't pick priority..

I was attempting to shoot a shilka on a steep slope. I think the shilka was in the shadow of the hill when it was looking for the target.. if they actually model the inflight radar scans. Launched 4 MISSiles and they all overshot and hit open ground. Curious if it is due to beta, or truly the shadow of the hill.

2 things: 1.) can you run Lima's and Kilo's in Beast Mode? I.E. outer racks: Kilo's, inner racks ; Lima's? 2.) I've also noticed that the Lima's have about a 2km range shorter than the Kilo's. I can typically fire Kilo's right around 10km(a little higher, but not by much) and the Lima's, for a high PK, I need to be within 8.3km. You can launch further out, but it's like +90% that it'll miss and/or go into the ground.

Casmo, I have a small question, do you know in advance or can you influence the side where the lima is going? For example if I have a mountain to my right I want the lima to shoot to the left to avoid it, can I predict it or do I have to point the nose to the left? or do something else?

meanwhile i cant get them to work, had George look for targets, out of 16 hellfires 2 hit, while the rest took a rest in the same random field

Good stuff as always. I do wonder though, during the initial flight is the wandering guidance signals sent from code built into the onboard software separate from the seeker head, or is the seeker head itself sending the signals, as it looks around. I would assume the software is sending the guidance separate from the seeker and the seeker head doesn't send guidance until it locks on?

Can the FCR also scan the targets and automatically move the laser designator between the scanned targets for the K like it does for the L?

I think the dcs logic must have some form of percentage for hitting an intended target as I have had it hit other nearby larger targets when lased a specific target.

thx :)

Is the flickering explosion a new bug? Othewise a great video.

Lol that "shooting between the targets" example was a beautiful showcase. Which one of these will it hit? Neither lol

This is a little off topic, but seeing the extremely shallow angle from you to the target (relative to what I'm used to seeing in a fixed wing jet's TGP) made me think about it... If an apache is handing off target coordinates, how do they go about actually getting that info and do they have to laze to see the coordinates in the first place? My group was flying a mission last week where we had a couple Apaches passing us MGRS coordinates and every single one of us ran into problems where we had good readbacks, but when we actually plugged in the coordinates the targets were up to a couple hundred of meters off in some cases. Seeing the Apache's view here makes me wonder if they weren't lazing and as a result we were getting the coordinates of the ground on the other side of the target...

any idea if ED is going to implement any evasive maneuvers for vehicles being fired upon? be nice to see tanks use their laser detectors or RWRs to learn of hostile intent and run for cover...

Great explanation. btw what is that blinking thing behind the tank 2:10 Oh and judging by the explanation, this is the "The missile knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where it isn't by subtracting where it is from where it isn't" kind of situation isn't it

What is the Missile doing when its doing whats its doing?

I think that for a radar guided missile there is absolutely no difference what source the target data from the laser designator or FCR comes into it. This is the same data about the direction and distance to the target.

So.... the missile knows where it is, and where the target isn't. By subtracting from the target from where it is, from where it isn't, it knows where it is?

CosmoTV - is your tgp screen resolution deliberately low? I'd increase it to 1024 every frame - it should be most realistic setting. Unless your hardware struggles.

So basically it's a very large rocket launched cbu-97

One thing I was hoping we would be able to do with the Lima model was to just designate a waypoint for the missile and fire it to that without needing to laser spot it. But that's probably a little too fancy.

my biggest question would be in irl would you hover? can this be done at cruise speed? because if yes. my shots have been 10 to 15 feet off.

Is it realistic, that this missile will overshoot if you move towards the target while shooting it, and undershoot if you are moving backwards from the target? Because that's why a lot of people are missing targets, so I just wonder if hovering required for this missile to hit with precision, or in real life it works just the same both from hover and from moving positions?

The George AI is absolutely dreadful at using the AGM-114L but the missile itself is a lot of fun to use in the CPG seat.

That intro 😂

I can't believe its point and shoot irl... The lack of accuracy seems like a problem. Does the FCR help with it at all or is it just for spotting?

Essentially you're giving the missile a fly out way point, then seek out a valid target. Would imagine this missile is, used this way, is very iffy if there's a chance of friendly fire or the presence of neutral targets.

So I guess since it's just lazing to tell the missile which target you want George as CPG should be able to use it?

I guess the best way to think about it now is that it is a pit bull aim120

Agm 114R have both radar and laser guidance?

Theory: Could you lase and store. Then in manual mode advance to the next missile lase and store another and then cycle back to the first missle and ripple that way?

Great stuff as always dude. Will the FCR theoretically (taking into account DCS-isms) increase accuracy? Also, in Longbow 2 it talks about the "C-Scope" - which overlays FCR symbology into the TADS - is that a thing on this Block? Or even real?

So basically the missile knows where it is and isn't?

Correct me if I am wrong. But don't many vehicles now have laser detectors? So it would make sense to me to shoot a radar guided missile in a general area and let it choose rather than tip your hat that your spiking a guy.

Thanks

Your screen looks very fuzzy? Do you have screen resolutions low?

Basically a baby Harpoon.

Guess no missile to use around friendlies 😓

i find it hard to believe a radar can pick up stationary ground targets

My missiles keep missing everything. I'm using George, and the missiles keep hitting nothing but ground.

i am surprised such a haphazard weapon exists in an age where the public is so sensitive to collateral damage/imprecision.

Why is your TADS so blurry?

just like a little anti tank amraam 😅

Soon we get the AGM-114N Hellfire Romeo with some gore effects i hope?

The L is not very usable, just when you try to stay out of sight it might help you engage armor and short range air defenses. For everything else I'd use the K! The L tends to hit "not the correct" target in a group, also it hits allready destroyed targets (because they still reflect RADAR) and it is certainly not picking out air defenses in a convoy for you. That is all logical. And be happy that weather does not influence it yet. Strong winds and your Lima flies off to maybe hit your own armor that is a half mile off the targets. I wonder why everyone thought the L will give them supremacy... read a bit about and think logical! The Germans went with the PARS Missile system - IR always helps, problem with them is that they only see hot targets. Every system has it's use. Laser Guidance however is still the best system for precission and has a unlimitted variety of targets possible. The only problem is that they arent Fire and Forget. I wonder why the Germans did not go for the Hellfire, thinking about their Targeting Laser and Sight is on the top of the rotor which would have allowed them to stay in cover like the Kiowa?

Seems to me. That depending on which pylon it launches off of will depend on how it hooks. For example if it's launched off the right pylon it hooks wide right and then makes a sudden left turn as it approaches the lazed area. Then it starts searching for the nearest Target and.... kablamo.

So what you're saying is that the missile knows where it is and where it isn't, and once it gets where it isn't it will look for a target on its own. And then it will go from where it isn't to where it wants to be to kill something, which may not be what the CPG originally picked for the missile to not to be at.

Ok. Definitely "Game Mode" things at work here. Correct me please... How does a radar seeker tell the difference between a 'live' and 'dead' target? A radar return is a radar return. IRL you launch missiles into a target area, it could keep hammering the same target over and over, and never hit the still living active vehicle ? Random chance you get the correct target ? Yeay for gaming. :)

Thx for the video The image on your TADS and MFDs isn't clear try clearing metashaders2, fxo, and Tracks\Multiplayer Should make your TADS image clear

From the back seat George just sucks with the lima .... He misses 75%+ he's so bad there is really no point in bringing Limas unless you have a human cpg.