How this 120$ Noctua Cooler beats a 360 AIO 

Even on chips that get really hot, like the 13900K?

there are plenty of justifications for AIOs. Starting with shipping: by having almost no weight on the socket, there's no nearly risk of damage during shipping. It also leaves a lot more open space in the case to allow for work later.

But theyre trendy and have pretty lights.🤣

it just works

You're right for about every situation, except small form factor enthusiasts. The space efficiency of being able to move the cooling solution is invaluable for small form factor builds.

true!!

That's just common sense lol...

They may as well have a rental service.

@@g.4279 or a straight up de-lidding service

@@VeryIntellijent shipping as unlidded might cause some trouble as cargo workers sometimes handle stuff carelessly

Respect?

@@GOLTURBO555 Respect acquired from honesty and not trying to sugarcoat it

Screw consistency. If I'm building a PC it should be optimal without being constrained by consistency. Two point mounting is obviously kinematically superior, so GN's results need checking

​@@shanent5793I fail to see how it's "obvious" that 2 point mounting is superior, and even if there's an intuitive argument favouring it the funny thing about intuition is that it's often wrong.

@@bosstowndynamics5488 Even in this very video he complains about inconsistent mounting because the cooler shifts side to side. This is a result of an additional lateral constraint caused by the friction between the strap and the cooler. A roller would eliminate that constraint, allowing for more deterministic placement. Excess constraints on a any degree of freedom will introduce inconsistency with removal and replacement. This has been well-understood in optical design, where repeatability is measured in nanomètres. There is an alternative in the form of elastic averaging which is also very repeatable, but since it relies on elasticity it is less effective on small systems. If you look closely at the stock CPU retainer, it is also a two-point mount. This is a cheap way of getting consistent clamping without needing a torque wrench, though the extreme length of Intel CPUs highlight its limitations. The latest SP5 socket illustrates a combination design where the retention frame has two longitudinal mounts, a screw at one end and the other end held down by a hinge connected to a beam that is clamped to the board by two screws. The frame is very rigid, with a tall web along the sides, while the six or more contact points to the EPYC heat spreader are just stamped protrusions, allowing for elastic averaging. Then the cooler itself is secured with six small studs around the perimeter, also using elastic averaging. Direct-die is a very different situation, with two or three small, asymmetrically distributed contact surfaces. And since it's DIY I think it's more important to keep costs down instead of focusing on repeatability when the system is infrequently assembled. I think it's more than just an intuition and I would appreciate it if you could point me to that GN article or video

@@bosstowndynamics5488 the shifting side-to-side is potentially beneficial when using a thermal paste as opposed to liquid metal or graphene sheets, allowing it to spread out as well as push the excess out in doing so, as opposed to a 4 point mount where excess may be "swirled" around the middle. of course when going to direct-die as opposed to a heat-spreader and/or using liquid metal/graphene sheets, these points are moot, since direct-die is a less homogenous mounting surface, LM requires a thin-as-possible application, and graphene sheets are extremely fragile. the "obvious superiority" is with homogenous flat surfaces and thermal paste, which is what >90% of people will do

@@shanent5793 GN's pressure mounting testing uses a pressure-sensitive sheet of... something (I don't know exactly what it is) that changes colour depending how firmly its pressed in that exact area. as such, considering the side-to-side shifting tore apart Roman's graphene sheet, it's possible that the results of GN's testing are not entirely accurate (however the way to get it more accurate would involve some stupidly expensive processes, such as X-Ray Fluorescence Photospectrometry by mounting the cooler to a glass substrate separated by a liquid whose refractive index changes readilly with pressure, but since XRF can only penetrate so deep, it may necessitate electron microscopy, which is a lot more expensive in turn afaik)

Would conformal coating rated for transformers be any good I have 180c spray air dries etc?

Comparing stock on AIO to delidded on Air though? Scientific value: Zero, except that delidding is probably a cool thing.

​@@JSmith73don't mistake AIO for custom loops, people purchasing them often want a plug-and-play solution. Comparing delidded Noctua tower cooler to a custom water cooling that runs without delidding - that would actually be a bad set up in my opinion.

It’s an interesting demonstration of options. Comparing apples to oranges of course but some people might not want to get an AIO for whatever reason.

You mean the lack of honesty and transparency. Issues? #1 Comparing only a very low 1200 RPM normalized fan speed between the two which is not only insanely low and not realistic for a real load hence his asinine thermals even at the end when no proper fan curve to manage noise vs thermal needs, but such low RPM fans will have issues pulling air through the grill of many types of AIO radiators (some worse than others). Yet he doesn't even really acknowledge the normalized vs max cooling potential which is misleading. #2 He is comparing a 170 Euro price setup vs a 200 Euro AIO when 45 - 120 Euro 280/360 AIO's destroy this setup with proper fan curves when allow to run higher, often by a very considerable margin. Thus this is not saving money, being actually considerably more expensive in fact... and it has worse results and you have to deal with liquid metal which simply isn't for everyone.

The first thing you do when troubleshooting is ditch the water cooler and slap on an air cooler.

@@mikem9536 No it's not.

@@mikem9536 If you are troubleshooting a PC that is not first thing you do...

@@lilpain1997 That's a massive generalisation. Most troubleshooting in PCs is just down to connections

@@lilpain1997 if you want to shoot some troubles before they appear, that's definitely what you do

He already has a video showing that

Carbonaut is the new one I want to see tested

And compare it against things like PTM 97950/Laird TPCM which both have long long service intervals.

@@arespirit KryoSheet I believe is the new product. Carbonaut is the older version. This new version uses Graphene but I haven’t seen a video really showing what types of temps you get vs high end thermal paste.

That's the key trick in this video 😂

That wasnt shown for obvious reasons, as its a marketing video. While Noctua makes good products, the cooler here isnt outperforming or even matching 360mm AIO. Instead we are just seeing how bad the AMD IHS is, and how you can significantly lower your temps by removing it and going direct die.

Indeed. My thoughts exactly.

Surprised he did that. I stopped watching as soon as he mentioned the dodgy douche Linus. Sounds like I didn't miss much though.

@@__aceofspades To be fair, you can go anywhere and compare Noctua to an AIO, the question here was "What if you spend less on an air cooler, but de-lid it?". The fact of the matter is that the direct die air cooler did perform better than a 360mm AIO with the heat spreader. If you're budget is $200 for cooling and you want the reliability of an air cooler, this could make sense.

That is an interesting real world test you have made there 🙂

If you mount the rad externally the Waterforce would be superior, rads in cases soak up lots of heat from other components really easily.

I learned the hard way that AIOs are not actually more quiet than air cooler. Sure your fans can run at really low rpm but you have a screaming pump which gives you a headache. I would take loud fans all day instead. My ears get a ringing from this AIO I bought and I start to develop a headache a few minutes after booting up.

He's keeping cost fixed. i don't know how he picked the AIO but it costs significantly more than the Noctua cooler.

@@ssl3546 oh ok 👍

Not cheap. This is so much more expensive a setup at around 170 Euro than a superior 45 - 120 euro AIO that can trounce this. He really was not honest when he said 200 Euro AIO.

The reason is because the colour is ugly as hell. they dont help themselves

From what I have heard before, there are lots of people hate Noctua's stuff simply due to the color (poop brown as they called), but I actually like that brown color a lot lol

@@gordoncheng9819 there’s chromax for ppl who don’t like brown, but they still hate noctua for some reason unknown, calling them ‘poop’ like you said…. if they like rgb that much they can just buy something else but they choose to swear at noctua and ppl who buy their products

just asking, who hates on Noctua? i mean, their products are a little expensive in comparison with other brands, but the quality is above all of them i think they even offer a lot of value, i have a server with an ancient nh-d14 that have like 10 years working and it stills perform like the first day

​@@mikeycracksonNot half the price, the PA is 1/3 of the price. Only question is longevity and warranty but given that you can buy 3x PA or 1x Noctua I'd still get a PA unless you the new Noctua beats it by a large margin. Under heavy loads the Noctua is quiter too but since I game with headset I don't care.

What did you use to stress test? That's pretty hot tbh. That's what I get after 12 hours of prime95 (which is by far the hottest stress test for me), on my 7980xe which I've overclocked quite significantly. And that's a notoriously hot CPU that's been overclocked. Cinebench is 10 degrees less hot too. Edit: with a 360 mediocre performance AIO. Also 30 minutes isnt long enough. Prime95 won't even hit peak temps in 30 minutes, takes hours.

@@username8644the CPU is literally designed to push itself till it hits a limit Normally thermal limit is hit and you peg at 95c but sometimes power limit be the limiter For Ryzen 7000 series anything under 90c is seen as optimal cooling

@@commanderoof4578 Right. And my cpu can go to 110 degrees. So I'm technically running significantly cooler than this guy with a significantly hotter CPU that is overclocked. Which is my entire point. Edit: and also informing that a 30m stress test isn't really relevant.

@@username8644 the Ryzen 7000 series are designed to FORCIBLY TRY TO RUN AT 95C and that is the limiter most of the time Also Ryzen 7000 series has a super bloody tiny die and a monstrously thick IHS Again its by bloody design that its doing those temperatures and poor choice too keep AM4 cooler compatibility play plays a large role in it

@@username8644 I used Aida 64 and Furmark… and in both cases hit 85C in about a min and stayed there for 29 mins. Pretty good indication the NH-D15 is working as designed because the temps didn’t climb any higher… not even 1C. You’ll never convince me running for 10 more hours would change anything. If they don’t move for 29 minutes they won’t move for 290 minutes either. Additionally… this is the only time my 7950x3D has even sniffed 80C+… I don’t consider it running hot at all especially when I can set up 3 hours of encoding with Handbrake and stay in the 65-70C range. Did I mention gaming temps are even lower? (4K Ultra with 4090 doing all the work)

Lots of people learn their lesson that way. Watercooling is just not safe.

What happened to your setup? Something in a custom loop break and spill while running or something?

​@@overtristIt heavily depends... take in mind tons of people are currently running water cooling setups and they are fine. A good company support and maintenance matters and made a difference...

Nobody cares.

@@s13shaka you clearly cared enough to comment, you mouthbreather.

thats how this clickbait works :) good catch

Just happened to me, the noise is not good, especially fast (and constant) ramp-ups/downs, on a upper tier CPUs. Yes, new air coolers will keep the temps under throttling limit, but at the cost of your nerves...

Don't bother. I bought one recently and it breaks apart too freaking easily with an AIO. I'm expecting a revision very soon for this expensive junk.

@@elcactuar3354 corrected 👍

where you live?

It's a graphene one, and it has higher conductivity than any thermal paste. Liquid metal is better. You are correct here. But most people find its application quite difficult.

@@tiggertsk This isn't graphene, it's graphite. Actual graphene is a single atom in height. I own a few of these pads, and they are NOT for heavy use. Thermal grizzly doesn't even list the W/m*K rating for them, and even if it were comparable to a paste, it's still a solid sheet and cannot fill microscopic faults and cracks in the heat spreaders of the CPU and heatsink, these create air pockets that act as insulators. Even in a direct-on-die solution, the heatsink would need to be a perfectly smooth surface with no imperfections for this to work as efficiently as TIM.

So does liquid cooling if the radiator is in the case.

yup! that's exactly what I did decades ago on some socket A build (a weird time when AMD chose direct die on desktop). Now, most of the time I just remove the side panel of the case.

Last two builds, I've mounted the air cooler back-to-front, with the rear fan blowing IN with a ghetto-mod filter on it (a frame cut out of ABS sheet, attached with 3M magnetic strips, can be detached/reattached by feel), with a centre/top exhaust. CPU cooling is completely unaffected by heat from the GPU, the hot air from which is also very effectively exhausted by the top/centre fan. Of course there are intake fans (two front and one centre/bottom).

I'm into overclocking myself but I'd say that modern CPU's and motherboards are so good with the turbo profiles stock that for daily use the gains are going to be very limited. Even with an older CPU (i7 4770K) I have recently tested you are only looking at around 5% in the real world for daily use. Benchmarking is different as you don't need the stability. At the low end the additional 5% gain you can also get from overclocking your GPU could be enough to see the system soldier on ok for another 6 months while you save for new parts but when you can afford decent kit it's not really worth doing for a normal user.

Guessing not for you then, eh. The point Roman is making is that, if you already own a Noctua cooler, then you can still use it if you were to upgrade to 7000 series cpu and still benefit without buying a AIO. Simples. So your grand total should be 110 less or even less if you were to sell the Delidder,. Not for you, that's fine but their will be plenty wanting the option.👍

@@madb132 110 + lost warranty + potentially broken CPU when delidding. You will probably pay twice as much in power bill after the OC in a month than what you might have saved by just buying a proper CPU for your use case.

That is not an indication for any cpu. It depends on silicon quality solely (plus maybe a tiny bit on LLC). Imagine overclocking guide written specifically for 'golden sample' CPU that just straight up doesn't work for any other processor. Is that helpful at all?

You don't need to delid the CPU or use liquid metal. Just the normal air cooler is more than enough for the 7900x under normal use, without heavy OC. The offset mount kit is a great idea though, a few degrees less for very little $.