Ryzen 7000 Delidding - Unreal Temperature improvement with Direct-Die Cooling 

I was thinking exactly same.

He knows his audience

when you see 90 degrees with a beefy watercooling like that, delidding is a natural consequence

Maybe LN2 next video hehe i would love that

A 7900X got beheaded, but it was worth it ! köpfen = behead in German, but it's the verb used for delidding :D

Most likely not worth it at least judging people's price on delidded intel CPUs... Even used they sell old CPUs delidded at such high prices that a lot of times we can now buy something much newer and better for the same price sadly... I wish was that intel and AMD would sell a slightly cheaper CPU without IHS cause it's sad paying for something that I don't want and much less something pointless that makes the product much worse 🙁

You just watch a video from one !!!😀

Right! 95 to low 70 is indeed impressive! Debauer u should update amd of the IHS thickness issues or maybe release a delid kit into mainstream damn impressive ! 😱

@@guily6669 problem is when people tighten it too much and destroy their cpu it will be amd and intel problem... If they release it like that there wouldn't be a warranty

They should make the ihs more thinner

oh really?

SO you have a new delidding for me??

Love the reference

@@volundrfrey896 References are TIGHT

I want the warranty team to get all the way off my back about delidding their product!

As a CNC machinist, how simple do you think it would be to mill out say 1.2mm of IHS thickness (leaving a 1mm border around the outside)?

@@Fenix1861 with the machines in the video, easy. Should work to with in 0.01mm, as long as its set up correctly by the operator.

@@oliverwilton5389 what about on a manual vertical mill? I am thinking it might be a viable alternate solution (when combined with altering the cooler contact plate) that minimizes the inherent risks of delidding a soldered IHS while drastically improving overall thermal transfer.

@@oliverwilton5389 hitting 0.02mm pretty easy with an 80+ year old Bridgeport, I'd be more worried about clamping and flatness here.

@@iemozzomei very true, however, I would be machining the IHS with the CPI still attached. It could easily get damages some how. It might take a while, but lapping the 2mm off the top of the IHS, then skim the stand offs down on a laith by 2mm might be the best option.

Thanks a lot

Amd had to make coolers compatible because customers are already forced to buy expensive motherboards and DDR5.

It's for when they sell the "upgraded" gen 2 AM5. They have to leave some easy room for improvements on the table xD

@@matthuntelaar8486 But then AMD will pay this choice for as long as AM5 gets cpus... they might have shot themselves in the foot for the future generations with this choice.

​@@darkpitt1 There is already a room left for AM5r2, such as increasing PCIe lanes from 28 to 64.

They been doing it in Japan since forever. You would love a trip to Akihabara

@@thepopeofkeke I was amazed when I visited. As a mechanical engineer, I will certainly be going back to Japan.

@@thepopeofkeke What is there on akihabara? Most of the time it is famous for selling a lot of anime stuff and computer parts, but i never know about this thing. Tell me more about it

Thinking the same thing. Though still curious how much further the cpu can go with the extra thermal headroom.

that's a super interesting and very plausible hypothesis. gonna remember this when r7k x3d CPUs come out next year

It jus to keep compatibility with am4 cooler the switch to land grid array (LGA) changer the cpu height vs (PGA)

Thought the die size was the same for 5800x and 5800x3d? Didn't know about these manufacturing issues.

@@orangepacker7479 there are no issue the guy only assuming It was to keep the same height as am4 for cooler compatibility

And killed the 7700x 😭

Id like to see more nickel plated AIO offerings to maybe make this direct die cooling a bit easier to do without a fully custom loop!

@@S3V3RI7Y Yes exactly.

@@S3V3RI7Y If you're going to delid. You may as well have a custom loop. It can be cleaned and reused for many generations. If maintenance is done properly.

I mean dropping the temps 20°C... i am gonna buy it!

was never interested in delidding but 20 is just too big to ignore

Sht up

@@tutoriais5266 *Shut up

Gamersnexus has entered the chat...

He's the chosen one

F 🫡

Hopefully they'll offer a shorter version for zen 5.

@@WaterZer0 What about Zen 4 3D?

@@sonicbroom8522 I don't see why it would be shorter, but they could I suppose.

i wish you could order the CPU from AMD with an incompatible spreader for better performance - so a High Performance Skew. Because the benefits are so huge i would definitly buy a new cooler. You have to get a new board, DDR5 and possibly a power supply anyways

@@DxCBuG With the price of electricity now, those 15W saved will pay for the cooler in just a few month😉😆

I can't wait for the stacked cache models early next year or so etime in 2023. As good as Ryzen is now it's only going to get better. Has anyone done a full custom loop yet? Interested to see what how far you can push an all core overclock

If it's gonna constantly run this hot under any load and isn't transfering that heat efficiently, I want some real data on longevity. That is genuinely concerning.

​@@Grarlic dies have no problem running hot. I would not worry about a CPU dying from heat. oem's regularly ship systems that thermal throttle at 100c and they'll run like that for years before something else in the system dies.

be careful with liquid metal, it is very conductive for electricity and heat, and the heat sink should be full copper.

@@Grarlic I'm pretty sure AMD knows better than you. And by pretty sure, I mean they do know better. If it was an issue, we'd have laptops that would have died a long time ago, yet they'll chug along at high temps no problem for years. Just because you're used to something doesn't mean a different result is bad. In fact, the only thing I'm really concerned about is the extra heat in my cooling loop.

@@volvo09 So at what point do temperatures start being unhealthy?

It does seem likely that they have given up some clock frequency at thermal throttling temps. How much, is an open question.

I wonder why they didn't thicken the substrate beneath the dies with more layers of pcb

@justinthor delusional, reasearch more about the industry

@@justinthor yeah this is completely wrong

They can probably get much higher yields through forcing us to run lower voltage. That could partly be why they did.

Yeah those should be insane in gaming probably enough to keep up with 14th gen in games before amd can get zen 5 out hopefully with zen 5 they just make them 3d vcache by default or launch the 3d models at the same time

as if they won't run hot.

@@Xfade81 They will have to go all in for X3d cpus because Intel will release 14 gen next year and AMD won't release 9000 series until 2024

@@DuBstep115 I love how we already assume they're going to skip another number. Maybe we will see 8000 series als the 1000 series as also followed up by the 2000

@@jessesmidt734 I really don't understand who tech companies can screw up the naming scheme so bad. AMD is not the only one who can't decide their numbers or names.

Agreed. It´s either about solder bad quality or too thick IHS - or both. Possible cut-cost measure.

@@Morpheus-pt3wq he explained its because of the thick IHS which was done to keep cooler compatibility with previous gens.

​@@TroublesomeOwl honestly, that´s so stupid. Typical example of a company saving money in a place, where they shouldn´t be saved.

@@Morpheus-pt3wq Is it really to save money though? Seems to me they didn't want people to be angry about not being able to use their existing coolers. Maybe they could have figured out a better solution, I don't know.

​@@PhazerTech most cooling manufacturers are able to sell brackets for new sockets separately. Or, as in case of Noctua, send them to existing customers for free. But a company thinking about their customer´s convenience? Don´t make me laugh, or i´m gonna go ROFL.

I have a 9900k and wonder if it’s still worth doing this if I plan to upgrade soon since it’s getting old now.

@@RyanEllerbenahhh you dont need to upgrade till zen 5 brother maybe even zen 6

ada bang alva

so kenal

Is it really a problem though? I need to see more videos on thermals and etc. For me a little tuning and tweaking and i think you could get it running cooler.

@@HackoDis it may not be a "problem" for the average consumer. However, if you want to tweak and tune the CPU to squeak out as much performance as possible, you're immediately limited to your cooling solution. So it would be a problem if you didn't hit the lottery on a silicon this would fix it.

I dont think tou need the bracket diy modding will make same result you only need to find something to glow to the mobo instead the bracket that will hold the cooling block and fit the cpu if we can buy somewhere this bracket it will be awesome

@@shayeladshayelad2416 no way in hell I personally would try to manufacture any part of the process myself xD

@@Kknewkles lol for me it all the fun im trying to find some 3d printer that will make me something after this vid for my ryzen 3600 i will try to check what i can glue to fit with mu current cpu to direct cool it like this vid

yep i look at it the same way i look at cars....some "BUILDS" are purely/merely for show....others really build tune a powertrain get an ideal differential and gear ratio for MAXIMIZED power paired with suspension and tire grip thats perfectly engineered for fun/performnace....others just an aesthetic shit show...much like PC build methodology and enthusiasts.

I think that at least for enthusiasts they should make a delidded version, for years back in the early 2000s many cpus didnt come with an ihs (granted, this also ended with many cpus dying from chipped or cracked dies). But having a cpu advertised as meant for enthusiasts and also make consumers aware of the risks, I think it could end up working out

they used to ship without lid. My AMD athlon had the cooler directly applied to the chip...

Back in the day they didn't have lids, it was good times. 😂

and possibly lower thermal too, because of thinner IHS

5800X3D showed that die dimensions should be the same. Mechanically I would not expect changes anymore since it's a veryfied platform

if i were to guess, the thicker IHS is to distribute the heat more evenly over the whole area rather than having hotspots right above the CCD in a thinner IHS, to improve the thermal situations as the CCDs are more thermally dense than ever.

I'd guess it's to keep same z-height as AM4

@@starshepherd11 That doesn't make sense though. Coolers will have similar if not greater thickness and if that was the case, why the dramatic drop when removing it?!? No, it's probably just for cooler compatibility, though as Roman points out, it's made matters worse because it's only partially compatible with the range of coolers and likely to cause confusion for many/most "average" buyers, many of whom wouldn't even consider after-sales mounting kits for their existing cooler.

well, there's a coverage done by pcworld that many media doesn't talk about, it's about eco mode in the new zen 4 cpus which limit the tdp to 105 / 65 w, instead of using the 95 ° temp as a limiter

@@kingofstrike1234 Will check it out, thanks for the info!

only issue i had with the 3950x or from an "upgrade" standpoint was ccx and per ccx cache, zen3 was quite the leap since they did away with ccx and brought upon the zencore/integration of a shared cache pool and simultaneous access/computing/ipc from core to cache vs the ccx design which led to voltage jumps/clock bouncing/spikes ultimately latency issues based on those characteristics. Which even the 5950x SHOWS compared to a voltage tightened/OC 5800x or 5900x by comparison which run games better 5800x>5900x even in some cases where scheduling becomes an issue with less than optimized engines/games FC6 being a more recent example.....BC MY FC6 Came free with my 5900x was delayed 1 year from launch....and yet UBISOFT/AMD lobby yields a scheduling issue for r9 cpus in the FC5-FC6 "MADE FOR RYZEN" franchise....granted 12900k also sees the same issue. Also owning a 3950x led to clock tuner ryzen, Dram calculator, ryzen master being used as well as switching things like SMT off for games like escape from tarkov, cs:go, valorant, siege....among others. Which constituted reboots etc forgetting which setting is enabled for which use/case etc. Looking up your board/bios to see which ryzen power profile is most ideal for your specific build bc its non specific and even bios updates could mean you have to switch power profiles to sustain original OCS/stability or lead to crashes which is a nice ADDITION of work load on a random day

@@anhiirr kya kehna chahte ho

JUST DO IT BROOOO.....you will be rich!!

you're more brilliant than AMD Scientists or Engineers who engineered AMD CPU for years. Success is upon you brother. You & Roman can take lead AMD CPU engineering department.

@@5federline The engineers are not necessarily at fault as they are more than likely well aware of the negative impact this thicker IHS is having. It is their management who decided that this generation needs to be made compatible with existing coolers by having the same z-height as AM4 cpus. You don't need to be smarter than the AMD engineers to improve on their design, you just need to be smarter than their management.

To be fair, pc gamers are easily anally devastated when it comes to compatibility. The backlash from them not wanting to support 5000 series on older boards probably made them reconsider cooler compatibility. So you really have no one to blame but yourselves.

@@Wheres_my_Dragonator This solution does in theory allow for cooler compatibility by providing physically shorter mounting hardware. My question is why AMD didn't do this. There is clearly room above the motherboard for it to be lowered.

They could go for a thicker substrate as well when the z-space is not needed. Don't know what that does to the manufacturing cost but it's good that the platform literally has room to grow.

My personal hope is for some Xilinx chiplets to find their way into these chips. They might end up needing that extra Z-height for thicker dies or linking the CPU chiplets with something like the Infinity Fabric in the GPUs.

v-cache didn't make the 5800x3d's dies any thicker... I have hope for zen 5 and 6 though. Stacked cores would mean getting threadripper core counts on consumer chips, which would eat into their HEDT market share, so we propably won't see expanded core counts until at the earliest zen 6. My guess is they will use their zen 5c (the c stands for cloud btw) cores on their HEDTS for zen 5 to experiment and then bump the core counts for consumer chips at zen 6.

@@cheshirster Then I'm wrong I guess. Derbauer commented elsewhere on this video (scroll until you see Rabbit's comment) that it didn't so I was emboldened I guess. The other things I said should still be true though.

@@cheshirster no Vcache didn't make it thicker. They explained it when they rolled it out, and debauer also states there's no difference.

Lost my Barton to cracked die..... Might still have it....

The thicker IHS is the reason for the temps, however the thicker IHS had nothing to do with the 3D V cache; It's to make the coolers from am4 and am5 compatible and it really blew up in their face imo.

it`s like AMD is trying to convince ppl to buy Intel and tbh if 13th gen has similar performance at lower temps, i am buying intel cpu

@@momchil_v to be fair, if the temp's a concern, you can set a slight power limit or undervolt, which should bring the temps down to sane under load (they're already sane in gaming loads) and at like, half the power draw you generally only lose, like, 1-3% performance, or in the case of the undervolt, sometimes you *gain* a small amount of performance. Not quite to the extent of this delid, but it'll be worth keeping in mind for when intel releases and we can actually compare them.

@@psiah9889 no matter what you try and do, 7000 series is targeting 95C, so it’s gonna run hot, pretty much always

@@abnormallynormal8823 you can turn this off

Ah, what a great CPU that was !

Awe it was just a kid, it didn't' even get a chance to walk yet!

Doesn't even look like the traces are damaged though. Wonder if it still works.

@@itIsI988 If he resurrects, he could.

Me too