How to attack a backspin ball 

Thanks Noah. I appreciate the positive feedback! More videos coming soon.

Noah Hocker, I second that. The response times r so low in this game, I find it hard to remember it all while playing, short lessons like these helps me progress 1 step at a time and keeps me interested in the game.

yo dude, no offense, but go check "emratthich table tennis coach". this video is really shallow in terms of technique... just give it a try, might be harder to understand but you aim for a better and stronger technique and thus a better gameplay

I don't think 'shallow' is quite the right word here. This video is really aimed at beginners and improvers, so I keep the technique quite basic on purpose. Emratthich likes to show advanced Chinese technique in his videos. Personally, I don't think it is wise to teach beginner players advanced Chinese technique. I think you should keep things simple to begin with and then when you can do basic technique consistently, you can then progress to more advanced technique.

Tom Lodziak 100% agree Tom! I have only been playing for a few months and I really appreciate your ‘basic’ tutorials. I am a ‘retired’ top level badminton player, but I got so disheartened and nearly gave up due to the complexity of this ‘new’ game for me. Your tutorials are just what l need to improve and so progress at this great game! Thanks! 👍

Thanks Dan. I appreciate the positive comments. I don’t mind challenging comments, as long as they are constructive. But always nice to hear from people who find my videos useful!

Thanks for watching and the positive feedback! Hope the videos help in some small way.

Great idea! I might pinch this idea and use with the players I coach.

Awesome! Great that you have improved so much.

Thank you. I appreciate the positive feedback.

Thanks Frank.

Hi, if you are pushing and the ball is popping up, it probably isn't heavy backspin. It's more likely to be light backspin or float. You could either do a backhand topspin or if you push you need to close bat angle more.

Hi, to begin with try to brush the back / back-top of the ball. You should try and contact towards the top of your rubber. This will allow maximum brush contact with the ball.

Definitely need to keep the arm relaxed. This is very important. If arm is too tense, you the stroke will become slower and it will be harder to lift the backspin. With the left leg coming up - I have never really noticed this. But I will look out for it now. I don't have an answer for that right now, but you have given me something to think about!

@@TomLodziak ma long vs ma te, look at a few of the very first top spins from ma long. Lifting left leg noticably. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-eH4VwnQAsDc.html

@@TomLodziak i think i may have understood the need for lifting the left leg against strong backspin. Power comes from the right leg, meaning the right foot should stick to the ground. But power also come from rotating the waist. If the right foot cannot move (stuck to the ground), the power transfer kinda requires the left foot to be light on the ground, or even requires the player to lift the left leg a bit, so that the waist can actually rotate. What do you think of that idea ? Are you ok with that ?

Also, if you dont move the left leg, your body rotation will be stopped abruptly, hence risking back ache. This is less likely to happen if the left leg is « free », i think.

Hi, you can use the technique I show in the video to attack heavy backspin balls too. You will need to use your legs more and accelerate upwards more to lift the backspin. Here's a match of Timo Boll vs Joo Sae-hyuk, where he has to attack a lot of heavy chops: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-gatqZi2bm7E.html

Thanks for your time!!

For short backspin balls, you need to play a flick shot. I'll record something on this soon. In the meantime, take a look at this video from PingSkills ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-heJZe0OTDnA.html

Hmm, this is tough. You can do shadow practice, practice spinning the ball with your bat and you can watch and analyse table tennis matches on RU-vid. But all this will only take you so far. There really is no substitute for actually getting on the table and hitting lots and lots of balls.

Really, any type of decent inverted rubber will allow to spin the ball fairly easily. Here's a list of recommendations to get you started...www.tabletenniscoach.me.uk/best-table-tennis-rubbers-blades-advanced-players/

Take a look at this article about rackets / rubbers for intermediate players. Lots of good advice and recommendations: www.tabletenniscoach.me.uk/best-table-tennis-bats-for-intermediate-players/

Tom Lodziak thank you mate

Tom Lodziak hi Tom, I was reading your article and I still couldn’t decide what I should buy. I am only 15 years old so the price has to be around 50AUD as I do live in Australia. I am an offensive player. Can you please tell me any suggestions? Cheers buddy

If it is heavy backspin, you need to do everything I show in this video, but more so. You need to get your bat lower, and spin up more, with even more racket speed. You really need to commit to the shot, otherwise the ball ends up in the net.

Thanks Tom. I played last night against long pips and anti-spin, that was bizarre, up is down and down is up. Any suggestions for how to be more successful ?

Ha! Yes, it can be a horrible experience. At some point I'll create a video about this. In the meantime, take a look at this article I wrote for playing against long pimples...www.tabletenniscoach.me.uk/tactics-for-beating-a-long-pimples-player/

Thanks. Enyoyed the article.I will try to put it into practice.

You could push or flick short backspin serves. It depends how much backspin is on the serve. If it's a really heavy short backspin serve, it may be safer to push. But if it's a light backspin serve, then you have a chance to do a strong flick.

Thanks for the reply! Love your channel.

push or flick them back

The safest way is to push back imo

It depends. If it is heavy backspin, your stroke should be more 'up', finishing by side of the head. If it is light backspin, the stroke should be a bit more 'forward', finishing more in front of your face.

Tom Lodziak I am a beginner and my coach taught me to finish my stroke at the side of my head. Should I always keep on doing it until I get the hang of it?

Yes, I think this is good advice from your coach to begin with. If you finish your stroke up by the side of your head, you should be able to brush the back of the ball consistently.

Yes thank you.. :)

Timing is important. And certainly some players like to take the ball as it is dropping. But you can still topspin when the ball is loaded with backspin and on the rise.

ive been teaching this stroke alot, i assure you it's infinitely easier when the ball is falling down. it may be possible for good players to do it on the rise with a good rubber against little spin. But beginners/intermediate (and some good players too) players trying this will only get frustrated not understanding why they fail if you dont teach them to hit on the beginning of the fall. Just try to teach a lower level amateur this stroke, you'll understand. The player will get frustrated and a sore shoulder if you feed them something a bit more spinny.

I teach this shot a lot too, and I assure you it is fairly easy to topspin a heavy backspin ball when it is on the rise (even to beginner / intermediates). Just a question of timing and using plenty of racket speed in an upward motion. Fairly simple really. But different coaches teach in different ways. So if your method works for you - then keep doing this.

I teach the stroke just as Tom does. I don't think that waiting for the ball to fall down is a good idea, because you have to calculate when it will happen (what is not easy at all because you can't see its trajectory from the side), many times it will force you to go far from the table (not a good idea to get a good attack), many times you will get late to the stroke (specially if you have to cope with a quick long push), it will force you to continously move back and forth and many times it will force you to hit the ball below or at table height. Too many problems which can be solved with a proper technique hitting close to the table.

@@RobertoCostas of course it's difficult, but it's necessary, otherwise you wont be able to attack on decent backspin, but merely gentle pushes like shown at 1:30 or 8:00 .

Yes absolutely. You could return any serve with topspin, although very short heavy backspin serves are a little trickier. It actually makes returning serves a little easier in my opinion. It reduces some of the decision making. You just topspin everything! I'm actually making a video on exactly this topic.

Thank you! It is a very good news. Because "reading a serve" - at my opinion - comes ONLY AFTER quite a lot of repetions of returnig a serve, of getting rid of a pressere etc... While in our case one just need to see if it is a backpin or not AND read how much spin it has. And one learns at the same time a topspin. What is useful in any case. And in any case one should "read" a spin of a coming ball. A serve or a short. And we are looking forward to a promised video. Thanks in advance.

If it is really heavy backspin and low, then you need to aim your topspin even higher, with fast racket speed. You also need to use your legs to help lift the ball. Get low and push up with your legs to help generate some upward momentum.

Your choices are to either push or flick.

@@TomLodziak Oh right got it. Yeah I saw that tutorial. Really appreciate you replying to my question !

+Hin5525 Yes, you should use your legs as well as arm. You may not be able to see in the video, but I am bending down slightly and pushing up with my legs. With other things you mention - different coaches will tell you different things as there are different ways of playing and succeeding at table tennis. If what your coach tells you works for you, keep doing it. But if not, give my methods a go.

will you be making videos about finding opponents' weakness, apply certain tatics for certain type of play style?

Hi, I will try and make some 'tactics' videos in the future. In the meantime, you can read my articles on tactics. Lots of useful information about how to play against different styles: www.tabletenniscoach.me.uk/category/tactics/

In this video, Zhang Jike takes his racket below his knee over and over. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-wSyILHjT9Nc.html There are many stills of this that show that. This is from when ZJK was world champion. Is his technique incorrect?

Yes, ZJK's technique is correct but doesn't mean it is suitable for a beginner. High-level players have a very good feel of touch, but beginners don't, so beginners should learn a form that can help develop the feeling and maintain good control rather than imitate top players. Similar idea to why beginners should use a slow and soft blade to start with, rather than giving them the top player's equipment.

If you place the ball well and attack with speed, then it really is not so easy for your opponent to counter-attack. It doesn't matter if the backspin ball is low or higher, you can use the same technique to spin the ball up. If the ball is very heavy backspin and very low, you will need to get your entire body lower, start with your bat lower and really accelerate upwards to lift the backspin.

When I attack a ball WITHOUT BACKSPIN I can more or less predict the trajectory of a ball as a combination of my force, the angle of the bat and a spin of the coming ball. And I manage to hit very hard, close to the table. But the ball stays on the table. But when I give a spin as you show (practically vertically) then my force is VERY small. Otherwise the ball does not touch the table. I understand aerodynamic. But I do not see than my spin REALLY forces the ball to go down. My point is. I do not see how I can REALLY control the speed/force/impulse of the ball I send.

One of the key things is racket speed. If your bat moves up with little speed, then the attack will not be very good. The ball will be slow and short or may not make it over the net. But if you do the technique I show with a lot of speed, then you can attack backspin balls easily and very effectively.

Thanks fot your time. So the only way to complicate their " the life of your partner" is to give a maximum spin. What seems to me to be quite difficult while one must really BRUSH the ball without sending it up or forward. The coming ball should be quite slow. Or it is a question of excercise and reaction.

It can be very effective if you vary the amount of spin. Sometimes you could do slow and very spinny, other times, you could go faster, lower and a little flatter. If you can vary the spin of your attacks, it makes it harder for your opponent to adjust. And if you also vary the placement of your attacks, you should have a very strong attacking game.

+Goodkat No offence taken, although 'severe deficiency in technique' is a little bit over the top! Fully aware there are many things I need to improve in my own game. If you have any specific constructive feedback, please do share.

Take this video (for starters): (1) the biggest problem you have here is you're using your arm / forearm to power the shot (even though you do bend low and swivel the hip). This is evident in the tightness in your arm / shoulder, especially at the end of the stroke. You need to use your hips / legs to power the stroke and keep your arm / shoulder loose (with forefinger / thumb tightening onto blade face just before contact time). The main advantages are not in power alone (though it does generate a powerful stroke), but in (1a) control - using legs / hips for power and hand loose leaves hand free to do micro-adjustments to stroke which is very difficult otherwise, and (1b) recovery - using arm for power means worse recovery time. (2) you are also going up and not forwards. Against backspin, you need to contact ball at peak or just after and then go forwards (so that the ball does not sit up after bounce on the other side). There is more but going into more detail just confuses the main message. Hope this helps.

Fair point about tightness of arm and shoulder. Trying to play looser is something I'm working on. Regarding second point 'you are also going up and not forwards' - this is a deliberate and legitimate choice. I like the safety of spinning up when playing against backspin. And as long as I play the shot with good placement and speed, I'm not too bothered in the ball bounces up or not. If I execute the shot well, I should be in control of the rally. -

Hi blood bath - there is definitely some use of my legs and waist when I play this shot in the video, not just arm. Is there as much use of legs, waist and weight transfer as top Chinese players? Nowhere near! This is deliberate. This video is aimed at beginners / improvers. From my experience it is not helpful to teach beginners advanced Chinese technique - it is just too hard for them. It is best to start with a simpler technique and progress from there.

I understand that, but I agree that using the legs to propell the rest of the body upward and forward is quite essential. It's not advanced (like e.g. applying pressure with the fingers, or where exactly in the curve you hit the ball, or even using the wrist for extra spin)

Yes, you can vary your topspin a lot. I'll give a scenario - your opponent pushes the ball with medium amount of backspin. You could (a) play a slow and heavy topspin by taking the ball a little later and brushing upwards more or (b) play a fast, spinny topspin by taking the ball earlier and playing more forwards compared to option 'a' or (c) you could play a topspin-drive where your stroke is much more forwards and the shot is less spinny.

Thanks, yes, your examples are based mainly on the level of the SITUATION and possible derivatives from these SITUATIATIONS. My question was and is about the possibilities to PRODUCE A TOP SPIN, but with DIFFERENT force, speed and spin. Let’s suppose a ball come with a ‘medium” speed, without any spin, and it bounces just above the level of the net, and its peak is outside the edge of the table. That is, it is an easy, comfortable ball. Let’s suppose I play with skilled child or a charming female and I want First, to produce always with SUCH balls a top spin But, secondly, I want to change the arc, the speed, the force with each such ball. What I am “allowed” to variate with my TECHNIQUE and what should I always do, if I want each time produce a top spin, and not a drive with rotation, for example? Where does the top spin end? Without which movement of this or that part of the arm it is no more top spin. Is it possible to produce “authentic” top spin without accomplishing a CLASSIC movements For example, HOW I can while brushing a ball TO PRODUCE A SPIN influence the form of the arc at the same time. Or HOW I can while brushing a ball TO PRODUCE A SPIN influence the horizontal speed of my ball? How with the same BRUSH can I at the same time produce a spin I want AND a form of the arc I want, that is the question?

Ok,I think I understand your question. The thing you must always do is brush the ball with an upwards movement. Everything else you can vary if you want to. Small swing, big swing, high swing, low swing, slow wig, fast swing - these will all create topspin as long as you brush the ball. In theory, you could use completely unorthodox technique, but you will still create topspin as long as you brush the ball with an upwards movement.

There is definitely backspin on the balls James was feeding me. I wouldn't say it was heavy backspin, more like light-medium backspin.

This demostration is for beginner. Thank you Tom for your simple but important technique in learning basic looping.

Here we go, another armchair expert. Give the bloke a break for fucks sake, hes trying to help

"Bat" is pretty common in the UK.

If heavier backspin, you will need to more racket speed and to lift the ball more. It's harder, but still very possible to do.

Hmm...I'm trying to visualise some of your suggestions, but not quite sure I understand what you are saying. "non playing hand cannot be away from the playing hand" and "head must not be far away from the racket" - sounds a bit odd!!! But thanks for taking the time to comment.

Tom Lodziak for the non playing hand, imagine u have a football in ur both hands, so to say, the distance between both hands must not be more than a football circumference. It also applies in the execution of stroke. If the playing hand goes down, the non playing hand has to follow down. The second, our head should also be nearer to the racket, again imagine a football between racket and head, in backhands, too. It increases control. It creates optimum elbow and hand angle. The more the stretched elbow(the more the distance between racket and head), the less control you can have. Hope it is helpful!

Well I wouldn't say this is an absolute truth. Different professional players will play their shots with different gaps between playing arm and non-playing arm and bat and head. Some play the way you describe. Others do not. Timo Boll's FH topspin technique is very different to Ma Long. In my opinion, there is no such thing as perfect table tennis technique which everyone must follow. There are different ways of playing and succeeding at table tennis. If your way works for you - great, keep doing it. But it's not the only way...

Tom Lodziak i believe there are certain fixed things, and in which there are minor variations. I tried to suggest those fixed things, the basis of a stroke. these basic things can never be different, throughout the world. Timo and Ma long both keeps the racket nearer to the head, yet both have different execution pattern. It works definitely for me and my players, and if you try, it will also work for you. Thanks for the appreciation!

Also I think your suggestion that your hands should only be a football width apart and your head should be a football width from your racket is a bit extreme. I just tried shadow practicing that felt very awkward and unnatural. Are you sure you actually play with your hands / head that close together?!

Yes, it probably is, but it is also much harder to do consistently. If you loop backspin balls with Chinese technique consistently, then go for it! But if you can't do it consistently, then use my method instead.

Can you show video of you demonstrating the Chinese technique?