I have the opposite problem. I have a hard time with my forehand, there appears to be to many ways to swing. With the backhand it just feels like there's so much better feeling. My humble request is to do this style of video for the forehand, these videos are gold.
Thats a good point you make there are a lot of different ways to possibly hit the forehand and finding your style is tough. I made a video about all I know on the forehand, if you go into my library you can see it it’s the one with a picture of Ma Long
Actually I also feel that my problem is the forehand of the loop. The movement ist much bigger and therefore much harder to controll (shot selection) for the suitable outcome in a specific situation or for a specific ball
Hey man, good video, what about the end motion of the stroke? is this vary from player to player? is there any "ideal" motion to end, or that depends on where you want to position the ball after the stroke? I see for example Hugo Calderano has a very particular ending stroke on his backhand Great videos! Thank you!
Hello yeah so from my viewpoint all players have a slightly different feel for the stroke as well as different body proportions and muscle type etc. Hugo’s finish is really sawed off and short with no full release, he makes great spin and goes to his target, moves forward through the stroke nicely. The method I described is a good base technique that works but if along the way you feel you like something a little more than others I would feel free to deviate.
i have good question for you i wish you have the answer what do you think went wrong when we hit top spin wheather it is forehand or back hand that has alot of spin but the ball does not go very fast .what do you think went wrong on the swing , so i will have a lot of spin and speed at the same time. thank you
The racket was probably too closed, if you want the ball to go fast you need good “wood” contact. So if you get only spin but no speed the racket is too closed and you probably swung from low to high to try and get the ball over the net. It’s hard to say without seeing it but that does sound like it would be the problem
Seth, you have no idea how badly i needed this. Ive been looking for ways to improve my backhand loop for weeks now. This video is an eyeopener on so many levels. Heading into training with it later. Thanks for all the passion and effort you put into your content! We keep grinding, cheers!
I have a question, I improved my backhand alot but I was working only on incoming pure topspin/backspin balls. Now sidespin balls messes me up , every long sidespin serve I guess is just not into my sweetspot hitting zone, if you (or anyone) could give me an advice on looping pendulum serves and also the reverse serves (reverse pendulum, backhand or tomahok serves).
Hi Seth. Love the content..been watching you for a while. I just wanted to know if your shoulders are meant to ache when learning this technique. I seem to have good "wind shield wiper" movement with elbow centred throughout the stroke but i find when i have to play consecutive strokes, in practice, that my shoulder begins to hurt
Yes they will hurt, the good news is you can just take a small break and then get back to it, and also a point will never last long enough that you feel fatigue in the shoulders while playing. I would say that its a good thing because it means your strengthening the muscles and the motion will be easier if you keep it up.
Thanks so much Seth!!! The video was GREAT!!! I think I've been on the right track for the most part so it was awesome to get positive reinforcement and there was some wonderful new info in there as well. Also, I built a return board several months ago and have been using it with my BH for the last month or two. I agree it really does seem to help to have to adjust to what I'm putting on the ball.
#1 youtube video on the backhand now! :D. My best takeaways: 1. the 'punch' had no idea about this. 2. high - high rather than low to high, or mid-mid method. 3. from another video, waiting for a high ball to drop before doing the back hand loop this helped me massively in my games. Suggested missing bits in the video. + I wonder how does someone move leftward in a hurry since most instructional videos are about moving rightward for the crossover foot work , but no-one talks about how to move extreme left when someone returns wide with the backhand. What do you do, when someone returns it to wide backhand, and no time to move Left what do you do?
Hello thank you for the takeaways. That is a good topic how to move leftwards, I believe Fan zhendong does this so well he takes a big step with his right foot first crossing it over his left then take a big step with his left and it helps keep the body really stable while moving leftwards very fast take a look at him especially his younger videos he loves to move more then haha
I think this is your best video so far!! Couple of questions for you: 1) You said that "no-spin" rackets can help learning this stroke. I use rubbers that are now old (1.5 years old with about ~7h weekly training) and i feel like their spin and bounce are significantly lower compared to other players' rackets. However i felt that this helped me a lot into figuring out ways to add spin for the forehand loop/topspin by using the body (for the backhand i dont think it helps me/not sure). Can this damage my teqnique somehow in the future? Should i change rubbers immediately? 2) I had a lot of trouble deciding on whether i should change grip from forehand to backhand. My backhand loop could only work with a drastic grip change that was not realistic in a game situation. I Decided to use the same grip as my forehand, and do less agressive shots with backhand (focused on placement/pressure with low topspin). Do you change grips between the two shots and what does the majority of high level players choose regarding this?
Hi thanks for the compliment, I would change rubber but I don’t think it hurts your game to play with this older rubber. I do change grip I’m like you actually I had a very drastic version and I had to tone it down and find a milder grip for the backhand so it was easier to change from fh to bh.
Yep sames, I used to change my grip but now, I keep my bottom 3 fingers the same and just slightly adjust my thumb and index finger depending on racquet angle
I've never seen a person feed multi-ball with that dead ball technique before. Definitely gonna try that out because I struggle against the anti-spin, short pips, or players that do that dead ball block.
Really some of the best table tennis content on youtube! Keep it up man. A video suggestion of me would be a basic tutorial for a pendulum serve (pure backspin, side-backspin, side-topspin), without any fancy stuff like fake motions. Also with like the basic serving posture and maybe some tactics to go with a pendulum serve (for example short heavy backspin or empty serve, ...). I dont really know how tight to hold the racket or how to get good wrist acceleration and brush on the ball. Especially with the side-topspin i cant seem to get a good amount of spin in my serve (i dont really understand the mechanics of side-topspin serve) and i cant seem to do a good no spin serve where the opponent doesnt immediately knows its empty.
Hi thank you, that’s a good idea just a basic serve tutorial video on how to do the things you mentioned, I like that. Hiding your no spin serve can be tough I guess the main thing that makes a no spin serve tough is how much movement you can make fast without creating underspin some players hit near to the handle so because there is less speed there.
This is a good combo of rubbers personally I use K3 from Tibhar because i can counterloop easier with it but I feel Dignics and k3 are very similar except in price haha k3 is more towards 09c tho and is a little harder somthing to consider
@@PechPongTT cool man right now I'm using innerforce ZLC with D09C on forehand and D05 on backhand. Btw Seth, can you please do a video on backhand serve third ball tactics?
Master class ..thanks..i have one point regarding the positioning of the elbow: Some coaches say that putting the elbow high forward creates tension in the shoulder and after some loops you will feel the pain and wont be able to loop much. so they say this makes the shot less effective, also because the use of body rotation would be less. They say its all about body rotation. The racket arm and wrist just follow the body rotation and stop at the right time. I must say i also feel tension and pain when putting the elbow high forward.. I thought about it as follows: When you stand straight and keep the elbow near the body in a comfortable position and then just lift the arm with the racket in front the belly, then when you bend knees and hip to lean the upper body forward you will automatically have the space between the elbow and the body without having to move it in a position. Sot the elbow would be directed more downward to the floor, instead of being directed to the side in the other case...is this space not enough? wouldn't this also help prevent the mistake of reaching to the ball? and doesn't also help transmit more body rotation and force to the shot since the arm is near to the body rotation axis? Would be nice to know your thoughts about this issue. Many thanks
Hi good thoughts, many top players execute backhands differently, Ma longs elbow is much more tucked in than say timo Boll’s at impact most players move their elbow into that elevated position so I feel it’s a matter of comfort when it comes to the starting position, for me when learning it was easier to just have the elbow up and in front and I got used to the strain now I can do as many as I want without getting tired. As far as body rotation most modern players are not using much if you look at pitchford, Jeoung Young-sik, fan zhendong players who are considered to have the best backhands use littler rotation just because the game is so quick. If you gave them a loose ball a little slower yes they would see the opportunity to load up the waist and use rotation, players like Zhang Jike and Darko are extremely good at this and are able to do it even when the rally is going fast. This is what I have observed and found to be successful for myself and the people I work with. Maybe i should note that players use forward rotation just not a wide up rotation sort of like the one inch punch philosophy
Nice video. One thing I feel is very important is not to rush the backswing. Hiromoto in a recent video talked about lining the hand up with the incoming ball. Then as the body starts to come forward the wrist whips back for the backswing and then whips forward resulting in an effortless fast swing. Most club players are not relaxed enough to get this mechanics and swing back too early and too fast before the whip action. If you shadow swing both backswings I think will see what I mean.
I was surprised when I put my robot on 0.6 time interval. That's fast. On my backhand I still had to slow the backswing down a bit to crack the ball hiromoto style. Even at this fast tempo you still need to focus on this for a quality shot. This surprised me and made me realise how important slowing the backswing is.
Last comment. Robot training is a danger as most people swing back too soon and get a bad habit. They do not go to ready position on slower balls etc In a game they struggle on slower balls and the random nature of matches.
I like everything except loosing your grip, myself as a beginner, I've had this issue, when I used loose grip which was making everything 10000x times more random and less consistent, maybe this is more advanced technique or smth, but after I started having good firm grip my consistency rised by a lot.
Great video! Looking at the clock behind you, one can get an idea about the amount of time taken/retakes for a particular cut :p Now that I'm trying to make videos, I totally get the "most time being spent in deciding how to structure it" thing. I'm going to try out some of the variations listed in this video, thanks!
Haha good detective skills I totally didn’t think about that. Yeah it’s a lot of planning and then trying to say everything in a clear way! Good luck with the backhand!
Awesome video Seth, thank you so much! Your tutorials are comprehensive and really clearly structured, very linear. I have a question- how much do you focus on your opponent after you play your shot? Currently I feel I’m too focused on the ball and as a result, I react a little late. Would love to hear what your opinion is. All the best!
I’m trying to focus more and more now which takes practice as there are moments that are more important to focus on them than others for example if they like to turn with their forehand being good at seeing that and burning them down the line. Or when they loop is it heavy spin medium or light spins then blocking with the correct angles. There’s many more specific moments it can be important to watch them and you just have to practice them individually.
I think this is a good question, I would add that when I focus more on the body of the opponent just right be fore his return, I will be more likely to predict quite accurate which side he will aim, and what kind of spin he will apply. Previously very often (not the serve) that I only what when the ball start bouncing on the other table, that is a bit too late. To say in another way, like when two people fighting each other (for example when we were child), It's hard to dodge from an hand attack of opponent if we just look at his hand, but could be detected earlier when looking at his eyes and the whole boldy. @@PechPongTT
A quick question, can you do a backhand loop video for the 'Grip' showing the use of the thumb please, if you have already done this can you answer with the link.. Thanks again for all your work
Do you have any comments or suggestions on appropriate video camera specifications and/or features to allow for good clarity in slow-mo and freeze frame analysis?
thank you very much for the explanation, very detailed so it helps me understand better. your work is very good. I wish your content success and keep working, and please let me know your setup.
Excellent video Seth! I always get something that improves my play from you! So thank you for your time and effort into putting these video's together for us all. Oh, what doe you use for your raquet, forehand & Backhand rubbers? I just switched to Timo Bolle Alc, 09c forehand and Gewo super select 45 on backhand, What are your thoughts?
Thank you for the kind words! I’m glad you and other get something from them. That setup sounds very solid hope you like it. I use tibhar K3 on both sides and samsonov unlimited blade I feel it’s a touch faster than my old viscarias
I love this video! Thank you very much. I will share it at my club and hope that these different ideas will help my students to get a solid backhand loop in time. Tks!
Great Video. Some really overlooked hints and tips that I would hardly notice on my own. Especially keeping underarm in front and open the angle are great tips. My problem specifically is when I feel I play bh "properly" my shoulder area gets fatigued quite fast. Do you think you need some strength exercises for that area or is it just a case of playing too cramped/wrong technique. When im just playing slower less effort with ellbow low i dont feel the soreness nearly as fast. If you feel like it might be strength related some recommended exercises forbthe shoulder area would be awesome.
For me I just strengthened my arms by doing a lot of practice, to become good at all the timing and adjustments you’ll have to practice many many hours and that will also make your shoulder strong and you won’t notice fatigue nearly as fast. The good news is that actual points are not very long and you won’t get fatigued it’s just the long extended training sessions. If you feel that you don’t compromise your technique I don’t think it’s a problem to have it a little lower, ma longs elbow is lower so I feel it’s also preference.
All players have variations on their backhand but I think you mentioned some mistakes that you just can't do. The backhand scoop is one of them, I used to do that. It is very hard to escape/redo techniques. My technique is much better now, still wrong but better. Film review is key, theory and practice is 2 different universes. With that said, decent video.
hey! yeah your right each player has their unique technique and body mechanics, I really started to appreciate the different variations when I went to play in sweden and it opened my eyes. I was of the thought that there was a perfect way and everything else was wrong but now I dont think so much like that. thanks for the comment :)
Seth, there are tons of pieces of advice in this video, and well-pondered images to illustrate them (e.g., the freesbee, the fishing rod). Besides being a great player, you are such an effective pedagogue. Many thanks!
your generosity is mindblowing...thanks SP comparing ML/FZD backhands...[ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-pYMY-1KQrbo.html&ab_channel=WorldTableTennis] their backhands are sooo different...i wonder why....FZD mostly keep elbow stable and as pivot point, ML seems to bring his elbow down and closer to hips during backswing.... their backswing during forehands and stance is also quite different...do u have thoughts/comments on why?
I really dont know they are two different styles of bbackhands for sure, Fan's backhand is more of a weapon where ma longs backhand is more designed for consistency I feel. It would really come down to the coaches philosophy of how this game is played neither technique is wrong and are scalable at the highest level (obviously) I prefer Fan's technique becuase Im offensive and want to be deadly from both sides one day.
Hi Seth, Thank you very much for the profession and detailed video, fantastic work. I have one question please, in your video on Unstoppable Forehand Loop HOW TO! @ 5.45 you emphasise the importance of keeping a stable racket angle for faster learning. However, in this video for BH Loop @ 17.50 you are suggesting that it's best to roll over the ball from an open to closed racket. So, is it a case of keeping the angle locked for the FH loop, but preferably allow it to go from open to close for the BH loop and roll over the ball? Thanks
Hey good observation, yes I was thinking about how contradictory that may sound as well. With forehand it’s easy to keep the angle stable through the swing due to the anatomy of the body. On the backhand I feel that it’s most important to let the hand flow and close naturally, if I was to dissect it more I would say yes keeping it stable on the backhand through the hitting area is good I think mainly just letting it close on the follow through is important. Hope that helps sorry for the confusion
Hi Seth, Great Instructions! Helped me a lot! Just a quick question for a variation of the backhand loop against backspin. Sometimes my opponent pushes the ball high and to the endline of my backhand. It's awkward for me to loop these balls especially coming from a pendulum serve as it's high. Do you have any tips for this kind of balls? Thank you!
Thanks! What brand of return board is the one you showed? Just watched one your matches with you spinning and leaping around the table. Could not help but wonder if you could do something like the two highest monetized table tennis channels...Pongfinity and Adam Bobrow. Neither of them can do the acrobatics that you often do. I know you are more of a serious player but would love for you to get more eyeballs. You did not mention the use of rubber bands to a strengthen your backhand. Still using it? What is your blade and rubber? Thanks for taking time to produce these videos.
Hello yes those are some great ideas I’m worried that maybe my channels focus is more about learning than entertainment which is where pongfinity and Adam excel! I do like the idea of coming up with some hype videos to boost the viewership I will try to figure out how to incorporate your ideas! I do still use the rubber bands very helpful to keep strengthening my shoulder muscles
I believe that if we use sticky rubber on the backhand, we will need something to fully utilize that backhand. I feel like if I loops it's oke, but if I drive the rubber feels very dead (ends in the net). What am I wrong here? Racket angle maybe?
if you are making a stroke you should always try to make good spin on the ball to help control and guide it, if you are going for a punch then you must try to get the angle right and keep the racket angle steady though the hitting area not flip floppy and catch the ball at a higher point of the bounce.
Some basic backhand faults discussed: 1. Racket Angle Too Closed 2. The Scoop: not able to rotate around the elbow 3. The Reach: Player reaches too much for the ball 4. The Fade: Touching too much on the right side of the ball The Secret Tip to improve backhand: Keep space between your hand and your chest
Yeah this i feel comes down to your transition work as well as your moving skills. I deliberately practice a lot of random transition work, including middle balls to strengthen it. Problem is that this skill seems to disappear as soon as you stop practicing it so it must always be maintained and worked on!
Hi Seth, my question is I been doing backhand push on rallies my whole life I don't know if I can do backhand topspin on rallies from this point onwards
The only thing i struggled to understand is what your secret tip was exactly about. I rewatched it a couple times but i somehow don't get it, at least i'm not sure if i did. Is it saying i should do the backswing with my wrist only and not forearm? At the same time i thought a general guideline was not to move my elbow when hitting a backhand loop. The videos of the pros don't really make sense to me, at least i'm not sure what to look for. Maybe you can give me a hint :D
Yeah sure, so the idea was not to take too much a backswing with your forearm and use more of your wrist and I do think a little elbow movement back to forward is a good thing as it lets you not have to take a large backswing with your forearm. You still rotate with your elbow but it doesn’t have to be in a fixed position which is what a lot of people believe which makes making power and timing at the same time a lot harder
Lol iv recent got into backhand loops Iv understood how to time the ball and then have the electrifying punch shot which makes the ball return so far you can't even see it sometimes I call it the Electric Backhand Punch
Excellent, thanks a lot for your video, I found a lot of information that you mentioned in the video, because I some time recognized and forgot, now you remind it for me.
Excellent video. Is it possible that one can instinctively have a greater feel and easier execution of let's say the backhand than the forehand. I have a very hard time with the forehand loop. The backhand is like hand in glove for me. I am grateful for this video it will advance my game and take it to the next level.
TT is not a skill which can be learnt watching videos so guys better focus on playing and playing u will start inventing your own shotd. These masters disnt had utube while they learnt
Your right got to put in the hours and hours of practice, having a good coach in your corner helping you every step of the way is optimal but some people don’t have that, I try my best to make videos that can help those who may not have a coach and want to improve their game.
Parabéns!!!! Melhor video explicativo para Backhand, você é um ótimo instrutor, me infique quais borrachas devo comprar com baixo custo, para backhand e forehand?
Me too! Do timing drills constantly focus on waiting for the ball to come into your strike zone, think about the length of your backswing, I like to keep it shorter and only go larger when it comes slow
i have important question for you i wish you can help. when we hit top spin we get alot of spin but the ball doesn't go very fast . what went wrong in my shot . . but what do you think we should do to make the ball go fast and at the same time a lot of spin , weather back hand or forehand thank you
I think if your having trouble with no speed lots of spin the ball needs to get to the wood more so a more open racket would solve this. If you have moments where your looping underspin and the ball just spins up short with no speed then the angle was probably really closed hope that helps !
Wow thanks and a great video tutorial in here and learnt a lot from this video. But will need to come back here a few times as lots of information to digest in one go.
Excelente, me gustaría darte un abrazo :) cuesta un poco ya que tengo que subtitular el video pero es impresionante. Todas mis dudas respondidas en un solo video. Grácias
Just a question from the service receiving video u uploaded (p2),U mentioned about looking at the logo of the ball for dead serves,are there any other ways to judge the spin amount(dead serves and heavy backspin serves) that u use in matches,because I found it hard to judge the spin amount and the spin type of serves at the same time. Is there any solution for this???
While the opponent's serving motion could be deceiving, on any legal serve you should be able to judge the spin from their motion and contact point on the racket.
I have this problem so I stared watching the bounce of the ball a backspin ball with float like and airplane where a topspin will hop like a bunny and side and dead are somewhere inbetween you have to wait for the second bounce to see this so your contact will be most of the time on the fall so you have enough time to watch the bounce, I use this method against serves I can not see particularly well, it works but a good defense is necessary because it’s hard to keep it short when your always touching on the fall.
13:30 is the best learning point of the whole video. and every player should adopt this mindset for every stroke, forehand backhand pushes serves etc. BRAVO you're incredible Seth!
Hello Seth, amazing content thank you, I've watched your videos multiple times and still go back for them to learn more.. I wanna ask you what blade rubber combination you used when you first started, I think I made the mistake you mentioned in this video I am using timo boll alc with Tenergy 05 on both sides (I'm happy with it but I don't have a good feeling on the backhand). I really want to improve my backhand. PS: I am an amateur player playing 8 hours a week and have been playing for 1 year and half.
