Very sensible tips, specially for a lot of the competitive 40k players that are coming over to 30k due to burnout. My playgroup has had to give many new guys "the talk" already.
This is a really good video. I noticed an incredible shift between age groups in players, were people with a younger disposition (or less time within the hobby) are very used to the idea of min/maxing (almost like a computer strategy game approach), while people who are old enough to not draw onto online games as their primary strategy game experience as well as having experienced early editions tend to opt for asymetrical loadouts, story or flexible driven lists and tending to take suboptimal choices due to the direction of their modelling choices etc.
It's almost exactly the opposite at my flgs, the older guys have enough options in their collection to build great lists while the younger players have maybe a few box sets and just have to run everything they have lol
@@eastoforion yeah, i can definitely see how the cost of the hobby will overshadow choices. That is a lot more prevalent in the initial entry into it though and less of a restriction on players that have found a comfortable decision on 'their' legion and direction, i.e. once the point is reached were someone is comfortable with their personal choice and has access to more units than their preferred points level.
@@livanbard old enough? What are you trying to say? I made an observation of personal experience, you fall without - cool. That's why it's a statement, about an observation, from me. I read your reply as either saying that it doesn't apply to you (it's an observation, of course it doesn't apply to you. We don't know each other so why would i be referencing you? And I'm not citing some natural law or creating rules for a new religion.... 🤣) or, you're asking me about a minimum age in which case I'm guessing you took an observational comment as a slight and are offended - in which case I'd refer you to my personal opinion on internet comments and tell you to go f.....
@@livanbard i guess there might be a third option, that you're asking a specific age group disregarding what i wrote in the statement above. I talked about longer time spend in hobby (which usually means sitting securely on a prefered main force with access to multiple unit choices on their shelfs) or people who drew on other means of strategy games than computer games within their experience. That is situational to personal experience or availability of experience due to timeframe - where your question might squeeze into. That means prior to the mid nineties (we'll disregard LAN parties where people used to drag desktop computers and humungous monitors to one location and created their personal intranets). At that stage the available mainstream games within the same concept were Battletech, Rogue Trader / 40k 2nd edition and the much more developed Warhammer Fantasy. You converted metal miniatures with a hacksaw and similar tools and it was fairly normal to walk 18 miles uphill to school in the snow in July both ways. That unique experience would probably put their birth sometime in the distant 70s, so they were teenagers in the nineties before the uptake of the internet (to eliminate the access to Age of Empires, Anno 1602, starcraft and the likes) and would force the exposure to come from sci-fi literature and the early contenders for tabletop games that didn't involve the historic reenactment genre, i.e. their grandfathers miniature table of the Napoleonic Wars on stamped tin in the unused, secondary library of the summer estate household.... I hope you realize the humor in this, but 'for pete's sake', re-read the actual comment you commented on and ask yourself why you commented (what appears to be) a 'competetive' question on someone elses video that only superficially grazes the comment it references. And just in case you were directly referencing ',while people who are OLD ENOUGH to not draw onto online games as their PRIMARY strategy games experience' - probably a decade older than you by your own description. 👌🏻
Dang man, just the video I needed. I noticed I've been close on being burnt out of competitive 40k and playing some 30k, just pushing models around to have fun epic battles sounds amazing. I'm currently thinking of an Iron Warriors army that was a kind of testing battalion for energy weapons, with volkite-equipped destroyers and breachers, maybe a Sicaran Omega once the plastic model releases. Also, if you had a Patreon, I'd give you money. Real, actual money. 😉
Really interesting topic, thank you for taking the time to reflect on these potential issues and way to keep it fun for everyone. As someone new to wargaming who have yet to play any serious game, and that has been leaning more into the hobby/narrative side of things, I find it reassuring that there is a place for that kind of players, and it feels actively encouraged by that kind of video. Also I really appreciate the tone and pace of your voice, as well as good enunciation, I find it super clear to understand everything you say, which is not always easy as a non-native English speaker. Your channel has been a nice discovery for me, I also appreciate the discreet yet useful visuals, I think it adds a lot, keep up the good work!
This is such an important topic in wargaming, and GW games in particular, and I think you've summarised it really well. The point about it being a framework for setting personal goals rather than a way of gatekeeping or judging other people's behaviour is incredibly important. Thanks for the video!
I think the point is though that if the end goal is to have a more enjoyable experience then 'bad' units used specifically will turn a 'bad' experience for both players into a good one. 'Better' units are only 'better' in the sense that they increase your probability of winning.
For me the worst offender is being gamey and doing all the min-maxing. Getting started with Heresy and having watched people play, the first thing I chose I will not do is the artificer sergeant. It completely breaks immersion when you actually picture the guy running up and down his unit and throwing himself into every shot (in slow motion, no less, as all bodyguards do). And now that is what you will picture as well.
Loving all of these videos bud 😁 going over them now. So far I am thinking of word Bearers with two 20 man squads one more shooting the other more melee nutters. Custom character of some sort not sure yet a dreadnought. But that's all I have at the top of my head ha
I always tell people at my table "Don't go by the numbers, get what you think is cool, bring it, set it up, and play the game." This tends to go over better at open tables because most people there are fairly new to 30k and/or 40k. They're always the ones who come back to me saying they had a good time. But the old hands or people at dedicated 30k/40k events who give the most push back with lines like "Yeah but why take X when Y does the same thing better?" Or "Yeah but it just gets too random, there's no strategy to it, and it's all down to the dice." Yes, it is down to the dice, and to how people think and play. As opposed to just what the sheet says. Which to me, and a lot of people, is more fun than seeing someone's list and knowing the outcome of a game.
Great video, sage words indeed! Another thing players can all do before starting a game is have a chat and compare their lists just to sense check each has capabilities to counter the other’s unit choices. If there are any glaring mismatches the minor adjustments can be made like dropping a Spartan flare shield or giving a few units melta bombs. This can be a quick fix to having an enjoyable game for both players when their armies have bad efficiency / skew match ups.
Good video, the one thing I've noticed around my club is they mostly go for things which are good due to money because they don't like spending money on things which are not very good. Especially when it comes to Forgeworld.
Great video! Would whole heartidly agree! I've been keeping abreast of peoples thoughts on how HH 2.0 is going and this is a really good summary of everything! Like i think both "It's on you to make sure your army actually has the tools to deal with most enemies e.g not electing to bring anti tank/haywire then getting killed by tanks and dreads doesnt automatically make them op " and "dont be mean and take dumb combos that skew real hard and make half your oponents army a waste of points" can both be true at the same time, and I think this is a really good verbalisation of that! Id love to see you do a video on terrain as well, at some point! I've been playing with the Obscuring rule from 9th ed (mainly because my playgroup dont have much LoS blocking terrain) and that's been such a god send to reign in people going like 4 storm cannon levi dreads!! Would love to see your take on all that!
Another great video. I'm a narrative player so I watched this video to learn how to add competitive units but not overdo it! I usually get rofl stomped in 40k because I start with a story and I build the army around it. And being a Word Bearers fan it's just awful. But trying out World Eaters for Heresy (bloody tired of painting red!) Definitely want to mix it up and make a still "rule of cool" army but make sure I can win a game or two! Thanks again cheers!
Listening this morning while building my AoD Spartan. Enjoyed the episode. Will say, as a non tournament player, learning who I should NOT play, for my own enjoyment, has been a big part of enjoying this hobby. Personally I don't play against WAAC players. I enjoy a beer and pretzels friendly game.
You nailed it again, Ian. I have made the same mistakes, especially focusing, and lost friendships as a result. Well played, Sir. Everton or Liverpool, BTW?
Primarchs are the same as LoW/titan super heavies. You have a conversation with your opponents. We normally say 'OK mate how many points? No primarchs. How you writing your list? Fluffy or going for it. So when asking a friend for a game I say 'Shall we do 2500pt, no primarchs and list to win?' Sometimes we do infantry only....we actually did a tanks/walkers/knights/Dreads only game and it was incredible. Honestly I feel like HH would be ruined by spammy competitive lists. One of the best bits about HH is that it's like 40k used to be maybe 10+ years ago where kit-bashing and making unique units is a lot of fun and you really want to get to play them on the table top.
There is one time where I set up a campaign that was very similar to Warhammer 40K chaos gate. Parts of units that you had die wouldn't get replaced until xyz part of the crusade and there was a limited amount that would return. You would have to juggle points as well as the bodies/models. It was a challenge to think further ahead and people had way less sacrificial units and OP synergy units would quickly get cut down by opponents.
Since I like to have a diverse miniature collection and prefer mixed-arms, avoiding three of the four main pitfalls is easy. However, trying to be less efficient on purpose is really hard. I may happen to run one or two suboptimal units because they are pet units of mine. But beyond that, purposefully replacing strong options with weaker ones just feels so bad to me.
Something I’m doing with my World Eaters is making them a mounted company, every infantry unit has a transport, and then a few predators to support. But the predators won’t have the best weapons because 1. Expensive and 2. You think World Eaters could keep the more technologically advanced weapons running? It’s way easier to slap some gun lube on a heavy bolter than keep all the wires and cables on volkites or plasma. That’s just how I’ve decided to not make my list competitive by giving tanks and dreads somewhat sub optimal ranged weapons since that’s not the point of World Eaters
Thanks for this video. I just got back from the Heresy event at WHW. I’m finding myself talking a lot more about tactics than I used to in the old edition and am worried I’m getting to competitive. The reality is I’m playing DoR Blood Angels and need to find a way I don’t get flattened by interceptor reactions! I lost all but 1 out of 5 games so I just want to get an army that “works” rather than wins every time. I’d be happy if I only one 1 in 3 or 4 games.
Personally I think about tactics non stop! I don’t think you have to suddenly switch to narrative-only, but if you are the type of person that thinks about tactics a lot this video is mostly just about making sure you arent so optimised that you no longer have fun games. Interceptor is certainly an issue if you want to ds - I’ll write that one down as a video idea!
@@Hearesy I lost a whole 15 man squad to various reactions on the turn it arrived. In another game my terminators got pinned for two turns by rotor cannons. Having also tried a librarian with telepathy at this event my solutions would be: - take a squad of rotor cannons to lay down suppressing fire to pin units that can intercept - take a librarian but start them on the board to nullify reactions - deep strike within 6 inches to pin units. This is the risky one! I’ve always been a narrative player but having been on the end of some disasters I need to think more than I used to.
This topic is really bugging me lately, I'm doing an IF army and I read everywhere that they are OP. I'd doing to do a 1st company themed Army with Sigismund as a warlord leading 10 Templars in Land raider carrier with a Chaplain, 2 units of 20 Phalanx Warders with apothecaries, a spartan and 1 of each dreadnought type (a full melee contemptor, a storm cannon leviathan and a lascannon deredeo) and of course the stone gauntlet RoW to make it legal. after seeing the video I still don't know if it's too much, probably I'm gonna take out the apothecaries and add a tactical squad. I don't think it's too much competitive since the Templars are not the best melee unit in the world and I'm investing a lot of points in that death ball (Sigismund and templars are the main and almost only reason I choose IF), also I have only 2 line sub type units that makes me score badly in many missions and 1 unit of phalanx will be on slow on foot. I wanted the different types of Dreadnought bc I like them all and this way they have each a different role (close, mid and long range). Did I make a list that's unfun to play or does it have enough weaknesses?
@@Infernal_Puppet I just said 1st company, never said anything about templar force. The first company is Huge and composed mainly by elite unites and located in the Phalanx, so dreadnought, templars and Phalanx warders makes sense, I never read about the fist company being only o mainly Templars.
@@Infernal_Puppet Well, I guess I'll find another background for my list. I really don't want to be that guy, I choose the units to use even before the rules leaked in the playtest version, also I already bought the stuff and would be too pricy to change it all up, maybe with time I will expand with something more general.
Dude at my LGS for our chill weekly get-together is like this. We’re all learning and he tends to be a super douchebag about EVERY little rule, dice roll, and movement, to the point where he is condescending and gatekeeping once every minute. It sucks all the fun out of it. We specifically started this group to avoid this type of vibe that we notice a lot at our local GW stores, so I totally agree with the sentiment of this video
I agree with most of what was said. Though I don't know if I could advise people who are slowly expanding from the AoD box to spend their money on quite expensive sub optimal units when they've been getting dunked on by players with more disposable income. The lists beating them don't have to be spam or cheese, but just having access to a wider variety of units is going to really put the AoD box in a hurtlocker.
my problem is I have an extremely poor W/L ratio, so wanting to bring the best units is kinda driven into me for any game at this point, but i also much prefer the fluff as well im now starting an Iron Warriors army for a traitor faction, i main Dark Angels in both Heresy and 40k, and im trying to build lists that arent spammy, my main thing for my lists is a Praevian w/Hammer and Combi-Melta and a Castellax retinue with Darkfire Cannons, because A)Darkfire Cannons are really good, doubly so with IW Legion Trait, and B)it feels like a fluffy IW thing to do, as well as all my bolters getting the Shrapnel upgrade for pinning, even more so on Destroyers with dual Shrapnel PIstols, but i dont want to annoy opponents with endless pinning tests despite the fact that marines pass morale 9/10 of the time
I disagree with focus being on your list of things not to do as long as you arent doing the others, im playing a death guard army and the units im using almost all benefit from something unique to my army such as chem flamers or moving and shooting with heavy weapons. But in my opinion that makes it fun to play against because even my basic units like flamer support squads and missile squads feel different to play against
Here a tip have fun make lore or crazy list that have no idea if work of not. Sure take 20 heavy bolter in two rings or in my case... have 20 drop pods
This is interesting, ill keep it in mind i dont like tactical squads that much but ill get some canon fodder painted up if i play. I think there is a bit of an issue with the lack of units available in plastic right now making it easier to create more fun lists.
I find it's a tough balance to maintain. On one hand, we want our opponents to have fun, but on the other, we want to have fun ourselves, and no one actively wants to lose. I feel like it's best to get into your Legion's head and use what they would use. You're not just playing a game. You're role-playing. Whenever I throw my Raven Guard on the battlefield, I ask myself "What would Corvus Corax do?" The answer is usually infiltrators supported by Outflank and Deep Strike Assaults. Our Legion special rules and Rites of War are encouraging us to do different things, and what works for one Legion doesn't necessarily work for another. I guess my point is that if you're leaning into your legion's narrative fighting style, you'll have a fun game regardless.
This is what I wrestle with. As a collector of now twelve legions, I want each army to lean in to its legions theme. My Blood Angels for example are almost entirely jump infantry. I have three Iron Warriors armies - one siege force, one mechanized infantry, and one armoured company. I want to make sure each force "feels" like it is from that legion, in look and play, and while I'm willing to play at a disadvantage I do worry about some combinations being too good, too unfun.
When the RoW you are taking is so bonkers op that adding land speeders and contemptors makes it weaker. Talking about Mazan Sagyr btw. Also it’s funny that the consul basically custom made for it can’t be used in it, the teleporty guy from the pdf.
I would rather play in a group with everyone is running at like 85-90 ish percent. Where the marginal power increase of a few points is minimal. Instead of everyone going for 50% and someone is considered rude for even going a little over because it would be easy to do. Narrative does not equal bad at the game. Spartans are a thing. They were in the box set. If someone has no strategy for how to deal with one, then their failure to plan is a plan to fail. The tank is designed to hold a Death Star even. Which as a 1.0 veteran we all figured out how to kite those and they don’t win games.
I've been thinking on this topic recently mainly because of your other videos. I found that if I flesh out the narrative aspect of my force and build units around that it shifts my focus away from my 40k/AoS instincts towards efficient listbuilding because you can end up with a list that's too competitive by accident. The process felt more natural than trying to be aware of what I usually do so that I don't do it, but still retain enough power that I'm not getting tabled you know? I also took your advice from the Imperial Fist videos and focused on the armory instead of the unique units. There's no way I can see to run Stone Gauntlet without it feeling spammy and/or skewed. Kitting out universal units with legion wargear (the legion trait goes a long way too) then having anyone able to deepstrike is a more thematic army that will be more fun to play I think. The narrative aspect is actually pushing me away from Hammerfall strikeforce and towards the Recon squad generic RoW which was something I didn't expect.
I hope that 30k appeals more to the thematic minded players. It is reasonable to assume that anyone picking this game up is going to care more about building a reasonable, lore accurate force rather than power-gaming to the point where no one is going to want to play against you.
Very good insight I'm doing IF and have been scared they may be a bit much 😬 I planned to run three ten man units of Phalanx warders with fafnir rann as warlord the the legion consul and two heavy support squads with the illiastus assault cannons with the stone gauntlet RoW. Hoping it's not to much I plan to run some more generic meh units to back it all up. If it's to much or to weak I suppose just adjust for next time.
IMO it is the responsibility of each player to provide an opportunity for their opponent to have fun. This means matching the relative power of your list to a reasonable level. It's a game, not a fight to the death. If you are winning at the expense of your opponent's enjoyment that's a dick move. There is also a major difference between playing good units because you enjoy them vs playing them strictly to win. Strive to enter the battle on equal terms and let the skill of the players and Dice Gods decide the winner!
Thanks very much, gets me to think about my 60 Immortals and bunch of dreads at 3k. I thought being mostly short/medium range will mitigate things but maybe it's still a bit much.
I dont think theres anything wring with immortals, actually i think theyre a great unit that is balanced+fluffy. I run lots of them and think theyre ok (probably get bored before 60 though!)
I don't want to be competitive, however my homeboy and I have a very toxic relationship. It's like an arms race. Every game we play we increase the size of the battle incrementally, and I'll win, then he wins. Then I win, then he wins. Over time we're both running ridiculously efficient armies and are trying to scrape every point of value out of our armies. We did this with Orks and Adepta Sororitas. It was fucking epic until I showed up one day with a Canoness with Martyr's Strength and the Blade of Sacrifice. She was securely safe in a Death Star of Sacresants and a Hospitaller and horrifically unstoppable. I won three games in a row and it broke him. So now we're doing HH with Blood Angels and World Eaters. I'm so excited.
Well, I’m a competitive player at heart so I had doubts seeing the title of this video. Then I realised I can easily have a legion with a lot of different units and just decide what army composition I play at certain levels of events. I’m sure I would go all effective and powerful heading to a tournament. But if I were to play with my bud at a local game store I think I would even want to try different army comps, rather then steamroll or get steamrolled. I just hope tournament organisers will do something about fury of the ancients - it’s dull and broken when taken to the extreme. Btw - what are your recommendations for dealing with phalanx wardens? Just shoot them with lots of tactical marines?
Im comp too obviously, currently trying to find ways to do things with my army using a variety of units of various standards rather than the most efficient ones Regarding wardens yeh, just machine gun them with something and kill the things in the army that do damage because they do so little. Also if you can pin them and get rid of the +1 invuln you can kill them np in a turn. Not hard to deal with really if youre an experienced player.
@@Hearesy yeah, that’s my thoughts exactly. It’s funny when I talk about gaming when I cannot even make a choice of a legion yet xd anyway, thanks for answering. And about PWs yeah, they are slow and not very shooty I think, better to kill everything else haha. Just don’t try to get close to them with your pimped melee unit. That’s a sucide most of the time probably.
I'm planning on making a World Eaters list, rampager and planning on taking two 10 man squads of rampagers in a rhinos, and two 5 man of assault marines with jetpacks. Would that be too spammy?
When complaining about the Dread spam, I receive feedback of players "you just need to learn how to play against it" If they encounter something they find hard to beat "Thats such a competitive list"
The weird thing is, last edition, the dread RoW was a meme list and not very viable. So is the guy who is playing his list from last edition a WAAC player? I’m running 3 Contemptors at 3k points and I feel like that should be able to be dealt with.
I loke to build theme armies that are story driven as opposed to win driven. I am working on both a Dark Angel's force and a Thousand Sons force. My DA will have Calaban weapons and I may go more close combat fitting in with the Knights theme. I haven't really made up my mind too much for my TS.
I find it weird that people have decided that 30k is the 'uncompetitive' format. According to the fluff Astartes did whatever it took to win especially in the crusade era when they had the most resources.
Its just what the community (mostly) do to date. Nobody has to follow. But if you want to join the existing community - which is what I’m doing - then this video is aimed at that. If you want to play a different way, do that instead, just dont expect narrative players to want to play with you any more than you may want to play narratively!
@@Hearesy the thing is that these videos kind of push the narrative that there is some ideal level of non-competitiveness, but what it they are really doing (whether intentionally or not) is pushing the idea that we should extol and somehow celebrate mediocrity. Never mind that its really really hard to make a list that is just flat out bad in this edition, its using the (questionable) morality of one particular group to determine what is THE acceptable way to have fun in this system. Yes, even with your airquotes of wanting to 'play a different way'. Narrative players will already cloister themselves regardless of what the actual level of competitiveness is. To have RU-vidrs flat out declaring that making a good list somehow makes you a less desirable gamer is frankly counter productive to the long term survival of a system much less its growth. Plus its toxic af.
@@Hearesy I do appreciate your content is not just regurgitated reddit fodder but I am pointing out that this is abit of a slippery slope that you are taking yourself down. Treating a 'competitive' mindset as a derogatory term, with or without nuance is setting up an 'us' vs 'them' narrative that leads only to salt. Its a shame and more than a little bit confusing to see this new generation of content creators so heavily align themselves with 'narrative' play when in reality narrative play doesnt need the kind of content that you guys are putting out (ie. unit reviews, rites of war discussions, etc etc). GW themselves have opened the floodgates to allow 30k to be more accessible and thus it will attract more and more players of all mentalities and this is a good thing for the system and for the hobby as a whole so its a shame that theres already the circling of wagons to exclude a whole new generation of players just because they want to play the game a different way.
I can't do it, and it's a huge disadvantage. Playing Necromunda and now one player don't wanna play against a gang I built for a campaign 2 years ago. Don't know how to do this, cause I hate losing.
My group originally comes from a 40k background, with some players more competitive than others. We’ve gotten into 30k and I’ve tried really hard to create a fun and narratively satisfying world eaters army. However one of my opponents bring an ultramarines army that’s big bricks of suzerians, telemechrus, and those no LOS missile launcher terms, all of which are proxies. He’s my friend so I don’t want to piss him off but how do I talk to him about this?
Straight up tell him to dial it back, and challenge himself as a general and enjoy the narrative. If he's truly your friend he'll want you to enjoy things too.
My group has outright banned thunderhammers. While I don’t mind them being used in fluffy ways, like with salamanders, even a single one on a random legion praetor can make games very unfun, leading to all duels with the praetor being mutual annihilation or just crushing of the not thunder hammer praetor
@@Hearesy it’s simply that brutal is a rule better kept rare. On dreadnoughts it’s tolerable because they aren’t protected by a retinue and only have 3 attacks base but when it comes to full units of command squads kitted out it becomes oppressive. I’ve fought iron hands with 2 units of command squad cataphractii lightning claw thunder hammer combo with two praetors with thunderhammers and there was just simply nothing I could do, everything they touched died. Several other legions can abuse them arguably worse though, like imperial fist tartaros command with storm shields and thunder hammers
Thunder hammers are just generally a rude weapon I’d say, and unless taken in a legion which suits them for fluff reasons I don’t see any real way to implement them without becoming an arms race for who has more. Certainly I’d say there may be times where it isn’t though, like when taking them against sons of Horus who don’t get instant killed by them and in limitation against legions who for fluff reasons decided to take some to balance it out.
Well, it's hard to be 'competitive' playing sons of horus. After half year of playing local games I simply give up this week. Everyone is pushing their lists to the max, even in friendly games, so I can't see any reason to stay at 30k, especially playing such weak legion like SoH.
RE: spamming, if i am a Tson player and try to spam out Psyhic powers (IE 3 HQ casters, 2 Osirons Magnus, Sekmet for like 6 casters), would that go against the "don't spam" idea, if i'm taking different powers (IE Telepathy Osirons, Biomancy Sekemet, 2 Pyromancer Consuls, and something nice on the Praetor/Ahriman)? ON that, is making a list designed around the most large blasts i can fit in it too spammy as well? Pyromancy for the 3 large blasts I love and I've thought of trying to spam Pyromancy with Scorpius Launchers for massive large blasts. Not to win, but because I love the idea of space fire wizards and their long range fire launchers just devastating the battlefield.
No i dont think thats an issue. Thats your legion trait - its literally what you do, and none of it is anti-fun! The large blasts idea also sounds fine, off the top of my head no large blasts are anti-fun to play against, so sounds like a good idea!
Coming into the game I'm finding it difficult how to kit Terminators. Seems like Cata would be more ranged death where Tart would be the melee. How could I kit these to be less competitive?
With my track record, I could show up with the most competitive list out there and still manage to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. My play style is like the Detroit Lions, but without the inexplicably big paychecks.
I play WE with the usual trends of big Rampager unit, big Red Butcher unit, and 2 Despoilers, Angron if the opponent wants to run Primarchs. Typically rest is filled with transports, characters, and probably various speeders. Main way I've been making it competitively or not is actually adding or removing a Biomancy Librarian whom is extremely powerful especially for an assault army. Since World Eaters lack any rules at all for shooting now which makes me feel really bad if I take any shooting units beyond transports and speeders. Any other ideas?
@@Hearesy My main thought is that it's still a deathstar and I can't really think about a way to make WE not a massive melee skew. Mostly because of their zero ways to buff anything else, and even when I do melee skew it's not that hard to deal with. I'll try tossing Angron into a Despoiler squad, reducing the rampagers, adding red hands instead, and maybe shoving in a Kratos see if that's less rude. My group's a bit more competitively minded anyway but there's a secondary group of new people I don't want to rick roll.
i definitely dont want my generalisations to come across like a melee nutcase legions shouldnt be melee nutcases. I think if youre not dropping them in peoples faces t1 i dont think its really skew (my word bearers are going to be mostly melee and footslog across the table…) if nobody has an issue with your list dont worry about fixing it just because of this video!
Running WE with Berserker Assault RoW I find the most fun. Having Rampager squads as troops choices fits the World Eaters nicely. I played a 3K game with a mate today where we both ran Primarchs (Was super fun when Angron and Morty started butting heads, and was funnier when Kharn decided to take on Morty in a solo duel and got immediately scythed to death). A question about the Rampagers, do you prefer to run them with or without jump packs? And I also wish that caedre weapons were available as unique upgrade sprues for the World Eaters (spending £44 on a squad of Rampagers just to get the caedre weapon models is far too expensive)
This is something that I struggle with, I want to play noisy silly emperor's children but I don't think my 30 kakaphoni would be fun to play against. I'm not sure, I haven't got a great feel for the rules and stats. 30 dudes with guns that cause pinning sound like it might be a bit much.
Kakophoni are good but expensive, i think an opponent with a decent army would have no issue gaining ground back at you by killing squishy marines. I think youre fine if you want to run it, id go more variety than running 30 of them though personally!
i got to disagree, been playing EC and their cheap special units, universal +1 I on the charge and exceptional warlords Traits and special weapons did wonders in the 5 games i've played
I've recently got into heresy 2.0 cause my group plays it alot. But my taste for heresy is already bitter because my first game 1500 points just using box set stuff. My friend turned up with 3 units of wardens with one 20 man with rann and it was such a boring game.
Dont put him in stone gauntlet Dont put him with warders Play him in stone gauntlet with warders but make sure the rest of your army is tame That kind of stuff
its not the community's fault GW cant balance, If you think things are this far out of balance house rule it. I would rather house rule to have a more "fun" list rather than trying to "lower your efficiency"
Absolutely. But you can also do it yourself, if you choose to. At a competitive level its GW’s fault. At a casual level? Blaming GW is just absolving yourself of responsibility.
