@@krazyzyko as Marth I just wave dash back and forth while down tilting. Surprisingly effective, and irritating to the Luigi who keeps trying to approach
I can already imagine Kira playing fox at 4 AM, laser camping the fuck out of a ness who started playing 3 months ago. They get annoyed, quit on the second stock. Kira laughs, and queues unranked again. This time it's a peach. He gets the lead, then jumps on top platform. "I have the lead, so I don't have to approach", he thinks. A couple of seconds later, the peach player quits as well. Kira cackles, then realises it's late. He shuts down his computer, pleased that he had defeated his opponents so easily with his superior neutral. As the monitor turns off, he sees himself in the dark reflection. For a brief moment, the thought of him just being kind of an asshole crosses his mind. He quickly shrugs it off - "Nah, it's just a game" - and heads to bed, still smiling. Tomorrow's going to be a big day for him, after all. He'll be finishing and uploading his next tutorial, "How to utilize taunts to throw off opponents in Melee".
Fighting a low-tier is like studying for hours and hours for a test only to get a question on something only mentioned in an obscure part of the textbook.
Pour one out for the low tier mains on netplay, forever doomed to be one-and-doned, insta quit out on, or camped/mixed up on. They fight the toughest battles lmao
We all have the same character select screen, if you choose to play a low tier you get what you signed up for. Picking a low tier then complaining about how your character doesn't have tools to best something is stupid, if it's a big enough problem that you don't think you can beat it switch characters or at least pick up a secondary
@@lotalentueux Shiek autocomboes and has pretty simple kill confirms on any character. She was considered the strongest character in melee's infancy because anyone could set up into a forward air and win with shiek.
it's either that, learning forbidden matchups or making random things on the spot, which sounds like the best for both parties, but most likely the top tier player would get 2-0ed in bracket
There is a direct correlation between this video being published and the increase of camping on unranked. We did not need a video guide teaching people how to ruin the fun of everybody who does not main the top tiers
Nah I actually agree though. Way too many brain dead players who spam laser, then taunt you every kill or every other kill, like as if what they did was sick. Yes, sick in the head! It’s very frustrating. Slippi Online is full of toxic losers, but Falcos are EASILY the most toxic
Look bro, all of this is a valid way of winning, but you have influence in the community and you're influencing people to be assholes. The part at 6:48 is super uncalled for. Why should you be laughing at them when they are working super fucking hard and most likely outplaying the shit out of you? It makes no sense.
If I match against someone in unranked that laser or platform camps, I’m leaving regardless of the character I’m playing as. I’ll find someone else who’s actually interesting and fun to play with. I don’t play unranked to simulate a tournament experience. Also playing the game to strictly to make the other player have a bad time just cause of the character they choose is weird and toxic IMO.
That or the people that taunt after everything. I make it my goal for them to have the least amount of fun possible. They get to watch me practice shield drops or platform movement for the next 8 minutes or fight a lvl 0 cpu.
@@aftermarketmartin2126 lame character? You serious? You should bring respect instead of encouraging people to pick top tiers instead of low tiers, it's already a game full of falcos, foxes, marths etc, a bit of variety can make the game more fun. I bet you have fun just by winning and not by playing the game. Plus they are called low tiers for a reason, you can beat them without camping and playing lame...
@@aftermarketmartin2126 omg another Fox! Dude you’re so cool and good, because fox is fast. You’re just like mang0. What you don’t realize is that you’re playing easily the best character so you have to work less hard than everyone else. And you seen shameless about it. Somewhere along the way, you forgot what melee is about. Everyone respects low tiers more than they respect yet ANOTHER fox player. Nobody is impressed by you dude. And if you camp me on unranked I’m leaving with the knowledge that you are a complete loser
@@HieronymousLex "What you don’t realize is that you’re playing easily the best character so you have to work less hard than everyone else. And you seen shameless about it. Somewhere along the way, you forgot what melee is about." Why should anybody feel shame for playing a good character with tools they like? And what exactly is Melee all about? "Everyone respects low tiers more than they respect yet ANOTHER fox player. Nobody is impressed by you dude." Speak for yourself buddy, not everybody is as obsessed over what other people think of them as you. And nobody is impressed by what character you're playing when they come across you on unranked. "And if you camp me on unranked I’m leaving with the knowledge that you are a complete loser." And I'll leave not giving a shit and move on with my life. Stop being so angry, meditate, it's good for you.
i really wish you had made this video about camping slow characters effectively (which is an awesome topic and very important!) but left out all of the negative attitude towards low-tiers. i know you touched on their perspective at the end, but the way you introduce these characters at the outset is just rude, and the advice you give is full of snarky remarks about making them feel bad (e.g. 6:48 "laugh at them"? i know you are joking but also you are clearly aware of the community energy towards these characters and this does not help). incredibly disappointed that a content creator of your caliber isn't considering this stuff tbh.
I find this strat is actually inherent to playing slow, punishing characters. With characters like puff, you often dont have the frame data and speed to be guarunteed much of anything by simply doing your own game plan. Instead of thinking about your own game plan you have to spend all of your mental capacity considering your opponents. You take things slow, learn their style, and eventually punish something extremely hard. You wreck your opponent at rock paper scissors instead of challenging them on frame data and button presses. Many foxes just need to realize that theyre able to do this strategy too, and they can work that in with their destructive frame data for an even better character.
As a Zelda main I'm aware that people always try to be "cool and tryhard" and they think they'll instantly win just because they play as a better character, ending up humilliating themselves by their own toxicity The fact that 19k+ people needed to watch this shows that most of the players struggle to fight low tiers because it's so rare to find them
I’m glad he included some counter-strategies towards the end but, I don’t think making the game more frustrating and incentivizing less character variety is really good for the health of the game. This will just make more people quit and less people start. Adapt or die I guess, just seems less fun personally.
Samus main here. The more opponents I play who know what they are doing against me, the better. Playing against non-campy foxes all day does nothing but teach me bad neutral habits
I used to think that retreating, laser camping, and even using shield (LOL) was "lame." Now I know that my braindead "hold forward, always attack" mentality was holding me back and not allowing me to even understand the neutral game, let alone play it. Good video as always!
Retreating, shielding, ect aren't lame but camping is. Yes, it's more likely you will win playing that way but it's equally as important to play non-degenerately.
Low risk camping is what makes melee fun to watch and play. It's hilarious that this is supported by the same community that banned wobbling. "Camping for a gimmick win is only okay when the characters I like do it!" Upvote this video, camp out every low-tier at your next local and really push your local camping meta. Great melee is sure to come after :)
Damn, imagine having to make a full-on guide video on how to beat low tier characters... guess the folks that say Melee is unbalanced garbage have been PUT in their PLACE!
Honestly, I like fighting low tiers. I will always love competitive Smash, in every Smash game from 64 to Ultimate, but low tiers add that variety the game needs to stay fun. Sadly, low tiers also have a lot of gimmicks and teaches bad habits.
from playing bowser recently for fun i think its not even bad habits in a conventional sense; bowsers best options translate so badly to good characters they can make it harder to play them correctly. of course everything is fixable with practise though.
@@ciarankelly3726 I won't lie, my main game right now is Ultimate. I like spectating Melee but it's outside my skill range. Anyway, I play in the higher end of the GSP system and it just doesn't matter. On top of online habits, I've had people play characters like Pit or Olimar, characters that have no hitbox on their UpB, yet will UpB out of shield, consistently. Like 9 times out of 10, and they get punished for it every single time. And it's because characters like DK, Samus, Dr. Mario, Cloud and Steve have a decent UpB out of shield. It has taught these players to always use UpB out of shield because that's your only option for most of the characters I just listed.
Low tiers spam things for free? Lol, try to play a low tier against a swordy with a super disjointed hitbox or a super fast furry with a one frame attack. Those characters can literally play half brain dead by abusing their high-tier privileges.
I can’t believe you’d rather make a video teaching overpowered top tiers to laser camp low tiers instead of writing low tier guides. You’re literally Fox News, “fair and balanced” at this point 😂
@@aftermarketmartin2126 I wasn't mad, just saying it cause that's basically what he was teaching. Also, that's a very scrub reason BTW. If you like playing a character, then play them. If someone's gonna play like that against you, then it says more about them than you.
Leffen knows that Hbox's best bet at an approach is using platforms to reduce landing lags so he will run around until he knows Hbox has no option to approach without lag
Peach can cover the jump by throwing a turnip up, so the jump option doesn't work well if the peach is doing this. I do it when i play peach cause i know people will try to abuse the slow jump shes got. Since it hits sideways, its easy to combo off of too
Was looking for someone to say this lol. Turnips and floating makes Peach able to beat circle camping. But most players are Fox/Falco/Falcon mains so the prevailing opinion is Peach loses to circle camping.
@@kickitsmooth low tiers are inherently lame. They force the top tier to camp so they don't fall into their lame gimmicks. Then they get mad when the top tier doesn't just die for nothing. Just lame all around. Even mid tiers are like this, to a less extent
the comments here are so weird yeah being camped out sucks, i love playing ice climbers and they get hit hard by this, but shaming people for trying to win in a competitive game is absolutely ridiculous, especially since at the end of the day every top player is doing some variation of this all the time, especially the players that are generally considered cool like n0ne or mang0 the title is only how to beat any low tier in a good attempt to clickbait you into seriously learning how to play the game
This is unranked. And no, n0ne and mang0 don’t laser camp random low tiers on unranked while running in circles. They simply do not. And they’d be ridiculed if they did
@@HieronymousLex if having a ranking system is the litmus test for a game being competitive then i guess smash was never competitive until 2013 when they started the miom top 100 and you're getting far too hung up on your initial disgust of laser camping to see the actual point of the video which is to use the tools you're given to avoid your opponent and call out when they're going to approach, taking advantage of the fact that you're playing against a human with emotions, not just a character. The only real difference between a "cool" top player and a "lame" top player is the distance they camp at. When you really get a good look at it the same overarching ideas from this video are being used, just with a different way of expressing it depending on whether they short distance camp or long distance camp. It's simply impossible to find that top level of success and consistency in melee without using some variation of this playstyle or you'll find a player that uses it against you, and even if they don't know the specifics of what you're doing, knowing when you're going to do it gives them a major advantage.
Being a Mario player is rough because you're either playing on hard mode, or people are just quitting as soon as they see you're not one of the top 8 characters.
Welcome to the FGC, Melee players. This is what neutral game is. The idea is that both players are trying their hardest to win. It's not WWE - a Doc main
So these are the options, You can just quit out of the match against a low tier (my go to) or you play them and have zero fun, or you camp them and make them work for it. I would mess around and play them my way, but then they win and taunt you and leave anyways. So you might as well make them regret playing a terrible char.
@@SomeoneWitSkill the only low tiers who taunt someone who's not circle camping them are high tier mains that are just trying to be disrespectful. Don't take out the rudeness of those people onto actual lowtier mains
Not me. Im good enough where I can get a rage quit streak going and I’m not even playing lame. It sucks. I can only imagine how bad Puff mains have it.
Sounds like you raged while playing unranked because you got beat by some low tiers and decided to make a low effort video chiting on them. Seriously lol, a 9 minute video saying to pick fox/falco and camp on dreamland/fountain. Do you have a twitter? Where can we get more access to your deep intellectual thoughts? This strategy isn't even close to perfect - evidence of which are your recent losses to low tiers on Slippi.
playing a low tier doesnt make you cool. winning a few games in unranked as a ness isnt cool either. being CONSISTENTLY good with ness or any other low tier is cool. thank you for posting this, less foxes losing to low tiers is just going to make unranked more enjoyable for the rest of us. edit: censoring h@x isnt cool and is super revisionist, thats fucking hella lame bro.
@@selvyucro Gotta be bad before you can get good. That's the real issue though; It's hard to play people and get better when nobody wants to play against you.
So you're just a giant pussy who doesn't wanna fight low tiers on unranked and wants to make it so you never fight against them anymore do to frustrating them and only fight high tiers is what im getting here. Gotcha!
Shit I've been doing that fox shit for years, to the kids at my old high school in club, or at tournaments definetly my daily play style online, sorry yall
i actually really like this video and find it particularly interesting for a pretty funny reason the strategy described sounds almost exactly like the way i like to play footsies, that one black and white 8-bit fighting game with only left/right movement + one attack button, two normals, two specials you can either charge or cancel into after hitting a normal, maximum 3 blocks per game, and no health bar (land a special to win). anyhow, i only ever played it with two friends, but i ended up making both of them ragequit just by picking up on their tells and reacting to them just moving forward with an attack, usually the low kick or charged high kick. ever since then my biggest goal in melee has been to learn how to play like that with sheik.
I usually start to do this if I see the low tier wants to annoy me. When he does taunts and other stupid stuff. If they try to play the character the way it should be played then I play normally and we can both learn.
This is why I hate try hard foxes lol. Like dude I’m just having fun playing a character not in the top third of the cast and you’re camping me on UNRANKED? Okay
This is why any floaty needs to ban DL against Fox. Big space + top plat = no fun. The Foxes are realizing DL is legit his best stage in most MUs. Thats why Foxes ban stadium, the lack of top plat makes it kind of an FD 2. Puff is probably the only floaty that can go DL vs Fox because of mobility and rest and even then, its a pain.
this really really is not gonna help the 'low tier players don't deserve to have fun so i'm going to troll and camp them into oblivion instead of just treating it like a normal match' attitude that a lot of people have lol
Great vid. It's cruel, but it needs to be said. I finally dropped Doc after experiencing everything you described. Top platform on BF and DL64 is basically impossible to threaten. Crouch-cancel improvements over the last few years really put the nail in the coffin.
the weirdest thing to me about floaty mains is that when you do camp them, as is optimal, they don't want to play any more. if you start camping platforms and evading without committing once you have a lead, people just dip or spam taunt. there is a big veil over defensive and campy playstyles as boring and meta-killing but it's almost the opposite in that the one being zoned out has to use their brain way more than if they were playing a typical, aggressive neutral game. it's the kind of gameplay that leaves both competitors a sweaty mess from how much mental effort it took to either get one hit or not get hit once. on netplay though... it's just not worth engaging :)
I'm a hyper aggressive low tier main, if someone starts circle camping me with lasers, I just get an early lead, then stand on a platform forcing them to approach.
