Ranking EVERY Counter in Smash Ultimate 

Thanks for watching everyone! Counters are a bit weird to try and rank because realistically, a lot of them would be pretty close together in a list of all Ultimate's moves, but gave it my best shot. Let me know how your list would stack up! -Main channel: ru-vid.com -Twitter: twitter.com/MrMockRock -Twitch: www.twitch.tv/mockrocktwitch -Patreon: www.patreon.com/mockrock -Teespring: teespring.com/stores/mockrock

The funniest thing about Sora’s counter to me is that it’s one of the only counters (maybe the only counter) that can’t hit Plant’s Down B at range.

Fun Fact: In Brawl I thought Marth and Ike just had down specials that did nothing.

"I'm not putting every move with super armor on here" Kazuya: "damn"

It’s so bizarre seeing how low Corrin’s counter is considering how busted it was in Sm4sh

Joker's down-B is the same as Melee and Brawl Zelda down-B: it turns you into a better character

I was shocked to see Shulks' Vision make it to B-tier. That thing is extremely unreliable, particularly in the air. When I saw Sora's counter, I wished Shulk's was programmed that way.

Grenijas's counter is by far my favorite just because of the off stage play with it even if it is not that good overall

It would also be cool to see a tier list of Kirby’s hat to see which ones turn Kirby into an absolute monster

While Brawler's counter has a lot of pitiful aspects, at the very least, it is at the very least one of the most satisfying ones to actually land, with its animation giving off an energy similar to Doc's back throw

2 things about k Rool counter that wasn’t mentioned: 1: It is reversible, though it can be hard to land, it is really good for taking a stock if you’re being ledgeguarded 2: It has a hitbox even when reflecting, this means that, if you’re hit by a projectile at close range, you hit them with a reflect *as well as* the counter attack, this does devastating damage

you can also reverse k rool's counter if the opponent is really close to you - i love when i counter a falcon knee offstage and send them flying backwards towards the blastzone

To all my fellow K Rool mains, all hope IS NOT lost. If Sora counters at ledge, you can buffer an air dodge while in the freezing animation. I discovered it while playing online.

One more thing I’d say in the favor of Sora’s counter is that, because of his S-tier recovery, you can use his counter literally anywhere offstage whenever you like, and still recover.

I love Corrin's Counter Surge. Especially how powerful it used to be in smash 4. Love Sephiroth's Scintilla too.

I kinda wish Revenge boosted movement speed in addition to attack power (obviously less of a boost). Being able to turn projectiles into attack buffs is great but it doesn’t actually help me get any closer. Plus unlike smash4 Cloud limit you wouldn’t really be able abuse the movement buff as it would go away immediately after hitting someone once. Just a thought

I have to hard, hard disagree with Greninja being C. When used in the context of the character- a slippery mixup combo machine, the counter is quite essential. Bonus because of how people know of gren's shitty oos game- people tend to try pressuring you a lot in shield, and the counter represents a real danger for suddenly switching the pace and punishing them. Also, this is a rather little known fact but greninja's substitute doll represents a lot of bonus utility. If you know how to manipulate it you can move the doll near the ledge and give yourself a 20+ frame window to 2frame with downsmash, instead of the usual 2 frames. Or place it on a platform to extend upsmash's active hitbox to 40+ frames. Seriously there's an apolotion video that covers the use of sub doll, it's woefully underrated. Shulk needs to go below C tier. How on earth it can be ranked above greninja, I have no idea. Vision is extremely inconsistent and whiffs more often than it hits, which to me is a death knell for counters which are already unreliable by nature.

Also, important note - Sephiroth's counter can be b-reversed, meaning that as long as you're moving, you can cover both sides with your counter. As such, the directional component only really matters for the space above and below Sephiroth.

Soras counter is so satisfying to use, I literally just used it today on a banjo wonderwing and KO’d on stage. the knockback is pretty good and sends them pretty far horizontally. completely stopping their move and whacking them w a giant oversized key is also visually pleasant

1. half focus attack also crumples, but it does high shield damage instead of ignoring shields 2. You missed a few things about counter throw. The fact it sends behind you is much more impactful than it might seem, their feet are completely vulnerable, they become marth in the air, and it ignores projectiles

Look closely, Mii Sword Fighter also stuns your opponent when it hits.

i pretty much 100% agree with this apart from shulk I would say c tier it's so inconsistent and the reward isn't worth it but yeah great vid as always

my only issue is i think u underrated greninja's counter. Its endlag really doesnt matter considering how far he travels, it still kills at high percent or on strong moves, and if it doesnt, it combos or puts the opponent in perfect positions to be abused by greninja's offstage and juggling game. It's such a flexible move that i think it deserves a higher spot

One more thing about Gut Check is that the melee counter is separate from the reflected projectile. This means that if you Gut Check a charge shot or similar move at point blank range, the combined reflected charge shot and counter will do borderline Incineroar levels of damage.

If Ike’s counter sent out a projectile like Ragnell is supposed to be able to I think that would make it more unique and give Ike a way to handle projectiles

I'm just assuming people who bitch about Sora getting a counter never played KH1. It's a fundamental ability throughout the entire game. Just be happy they didn't add Strike Raid. 4 ranged keyblade throws followed by one super throw, where he's rooted in space but completely invulnerable.

My favorite counter is Shulk, mainly because at a certain point I know my opponent is gonna die, the animation is delayed to make the payoff JUST right, plus it looks really cool. Ooh and also Smash art having the potential to kill my opponent at like 20%

for counter throw's hitbox. It's range is insane in the air. You can connect it with byleth's full range f-smash

This tier list feels counterproductive

I thought sora’s stun on is counter would make it really inconsistent, but I didn’t realize how massive the hitbox actually was

Sora’s counter can still counter things when getting hit from behind as long as the attack hit box is big/long enough. For example pyra forward smash and sephiroth forward smash

As someone who used to use mii sword fighter one of the main reasons the counter isn’t preferred is because it’s either that or a reflector which works very similar to Mario’s cape which can still gimp some opponents recovery’s better than the counter can but also helps in heavy projectile based match up and when your as slow as mii sword fighter is you’ll take what you can get

Some fun facts about King K. Rool's counter that weren't mentioned in the video but I feel are worth pointing out: 1. If you reflect a projectile with it, the counter hitbox is STILL ACTIVE, and both of them can stack at close range, leading to a hypothetical 3x multiplier on a reflected projectile. This sets it apart from the other counter/reflector hybrids. 2. He has full-body intangibility from frame 4-15 during its startup, allowing him to narrowly avoid certain attacks or grabs under the right circumstances. 3. It's the only counter in the game (to my knowledge) that can be turned around manually.

I would argue that, while yes, one of the most important aspect of a counter is to be able to catch recoveries, the ones that don't do that very well can actually be used differently. For instance you say that Corrin's counter is not great for catching recoveries, but it is actually very good at preventing edge guards when you are recovering (specially when you are going high) this counter allows you to punish high edgeguards and kill out of the top for that. At the same time, while you wouldn't want to juggle your opponent with the counter, it is a great juggle startup, and I would argue that it was designed to be used in the air most of the time, not grounded, which makes sense since this way it will kill very early. I am not saying that Corrin's counter should go in S or A tier, but it can definitely be a C or maybe low B tier if you use it properly.

HOO BABY was just watching a few old mockrock vids for reference on how to structure writing abt some guilty gear ideas I’m working on and just came from the counter vid, good timing my dude :)

Mii Brawler's counter is one of my favorite moves in the game. It's really bad, but I just love it. The actual counter being a grab and all is really cool, and the sound effect is super satisfying. Can't argue with your placement, though, it sucks as an actual counter!

With Mii Swordfighter, I've been using Reversal Slash due to it being somewhat of a worse Mario Cape and using it to deny recoveries in tandem with Chakram because I've found Mii Swordfighter's Aerial Down Air to sometimes put me in a worse spot than who I'm hitting.

I think it would be cool if Incineroar’s Revenge gave him a small movement boost, then he would at least be viable

I love how sora counter can counter banjo side b. Best thing added in the game

Mii Brawler counter one-shots Ganon on doriah. Genuinely a broken move when it lands Vs heavys, which is surprisingly often.

Random fact: K.Rool's Gut check actually has frame 4 intangibility that last for like 11 frames (F15). This means that - if timed right - you can actually get "hit" from above and the counter will work. I have even seen that with Bowser's Dair, ang KirbyKid took some games after reversing the counter (because that's another thing you can do, tho it doesn't work if opponent's hurtbox isn't inside of you).

The thing with Peach's counter is that no matter which move you counter, it always deals a solid 26% and knockback that kills at around 100%, no matter how weak the move was That means you're almost guaranteed to edgeguard and kill many predictable-recovery characters at low percentages, it deserves to be at least in A Tier

Again, Brawler's Counter Throw has a bigger grabbox in the air, so it whiffs way less. Check on Ultimate Frame Data.

Sora has brief intangibility at the very start of his counter which makes attacks go through him and hit the keyblade making the counter successful. Good luck getting that off consistently tho. Its actually pretty good for sweeping attacks against him while he is in the air as they will make it to the keyblade even faster.

I’m a link player, and I personally discovered why Sora’s reflective counter actually does something. I got hit by my own boomerang after it went through him.

I seriously disagree with greninja’s placement. It has one of the best uses in edguarding with the diagonally down angle, which means you can live afterwards. There is also serious cheese you can do with the substitute itself by extending hitboxes for easy 2 frames.

"Incineroar mains lean on [Revenge] maybe more than any other counter in the game, and for good reason" revenge my beloved revenge is the only reason incin does halfway as decently as he does, that move defines his MU spread. it's kinda unreal lmao

Strongly agree with moving Ike's counter down to C. I would put it at the bottom of C, bordering on F. In addition to being ridiculously slow (literally triple the startup of the fastest counters) the hitbox whiffs constantly when used in the air. The speed and accuracy problems make it surprisingly difficult to use offstage as an edgeguarding tool, even against recoveries that can be countered. I would also move Shulk down to C for accuracy problems. The directional dash is nice when grounded, but in the air the move whiffs against loads of enemies slightly above or below Shulk.

I’ve been loving these tier lists. You put a ton of insight and work into them and you clearly have a ton of knowledge of this game. Great second channel!

For greninja the substitute itself actually has a good amount of utility since it can block projectiles and be tilted to face upward to block even more projectiles so I would personally put it in B

Marth’s counter actually has (slightly) more range than Lucina’s counter. Why that is, I don’t know.

Yeah but Mii Fighter’s counter is the sickest in the game. When you pull that off you feel like a god.

Incredibly high quality content from you never fails to amaze me. Keep it up man!!

Even though Mii Brawler's Counter Throw is kinda crap, it's always in my main Mii Brawler moveset because it's strong and STYLISH! It's so cool-looking when it connects!

I value this video, and enjoyed watching 😀 But I only agree with three choices 🤗 Thanks for making it though! It was useful to form my own opinions and make my own teir list

Some other things to note about bayos witch time. Hit boxes are still active, meaning moves will clank and if it’s a multi hit, you will get hit the moment witch time ends. And about bat within, in the air when doing witch time and triggering it, you can’t influence the direction fall, you also can’t move on the ground when triggering it during witch time either meaning you will be hit by multi hits again.

When it comes to focus, don't know if you knew this but focus can lead to both shoto's being super plus on block when descending and allows both of them to get guaranteed shield breaks if done right. Of course, that is using them offensively not defensively but if you ever talk about those moves again I think it's worth noting

Sora's "reflect" property on his counter is also pretty good for stuffing boomerang-esque attacks and pika's down b.

As a disgruntled Ike player I'd argue that Ike's counter is bad enough to be a contender for F tier. Besides being the slowest, and formerly the laggiest counter in the game before Sephiroth came along, the supposed power that is meant to balance it is only felt if you catch a powerful hit with it - it still has the weakest 1.2x counter multiplier possible despite Roy and Chrom receiving the 1.35x multiplier. Even Palutena has 1.3x on her less powerful double-duty counter. Furthermore, not only did the counter portion both lose active frames and get more endlag tacked on than other counters coming from Smash 4, they even made the actual ATTACK laggier, making it dangerous to use to block recoveries on both success and failure, as Ike falls considerably farther during the swing animation than other counters, including those of faster fallers Roy and Chrom, and he is already not a character who's very comfortable trying to recover from below. Its sole strength was a decent ability to kill offstage off of even weak hits, but there are now a slew of counters capable of doing that without nearly as much risk.

Forgot about that banger intro, gosh I love that, always have. Good to hear and see it again. Also ngl didn’t realize you could select launch with Shulk counter-or if I did it’s just not a memorable aspect. Also maybe hot take but I think Substitute is one of the best counters. Maybe that’s a little bit biased but I think it’s just a very high utility counter, and lasts for a solid amount of time. From all my playing of Greninja I just feel like there’s so many use cases. Also Sora counter just straight up beats Wonderwing? Dang.

Fun strange Mii Brawler counter fact: Unless it has changed, it is apparently grab immune for its entre duration, endlag included. Last time I experienced this was 2019 at LTC7, so this may have been patched. Situation (repeatedly) was Alolan Whip to punish counter only to have it push Mii Brawler along the ground. I have not tested it since then and it doesn't really come up often due to lack of character popularity.

8:40 Ken’s Focus Attack is actually a punch attack even though the animation explicitly shows him kicking. Using a Foot Attack⬆️ Spirit won’t boost Ken Focus Attack, but Fist Attack⬆️ does. They literally Copy/Pasted Ryu’s Down Special data and forgot to change the effect from punch to kick.

You really don’t need to apologize for Mii Brawler having a trash counter. Even if it were good, we’re still gonna use flip jump over counter.

Nice video, keep up the good work!

I agree with the Brawler counter, but I'll never forget the time I took all 3 stocks off my friend by countering Byleth's axe with it. It was literally a 1 hit kill.

Seeing Substitute rated below Vision and Double Team hurts my soul.

I actually think Sora's counter is the second best in the game simply due to the fact that it completely nullifies recoveries. It can even edgeguard Pikachu, which is incredible.

I love that one of the selling point is , “this counter works.”

One fun fact about the Croci boi: as you all know he can turn around when hit, if he does this in the air he can launch the opponent in the direction he moved, so if you're close to the blast zone you can try catching an opponent attack and get an (in most cases) easy kill

14:00 most likely because people use power thrust more, while blade counter is great and fairly consistent for a counter, power thrust is great and fairly consistent in general

I should mention Mii Brawler's counter counts as a grab which can also counter Wonderwing (life as a Banjo main is hard) but that doesn't make his counter better or Sora's less special imo

It's not often that I agree with a Tier List point-for-point Well done 👏

Really nice video!

I think Corrins counter is pretty good, it has pretty good range so if you play in team battle and the both opponents are attacking you from 2 different sides you could easily hit them both, so for me I would at least put it in B tier but that’s just because I play a ton of team battles

As an Ike main I’d say C tier makes me kinda sad but I’m forced to admit that hitting it depends on getting some pretty sick reads, so I’m ok with it. Still, to me, nothing beats the feeling of getting that counter and seeing my opponent fly offstage, maybe precisely because I have to get the read for that to work

As a former bayo main, I must argue that witch time doesn't deserve to go anywhere other than bottom... with sephiroth's

The best part of Incineroar counter is the sound and animation Incineroar makes

As a Mii Swordfighter main who uses Blade Counter, I predicted that it was going to be A-Tier and I was right

If I'm not mistaken, Lucario's counter also has grab intangibility from the start of the active frames to the end of the move. Weird, but fairly nice.

Counter throw does get more range in the air, but that also changes the knockback angle and decreases the damage multiplier.

I 100% agree with that incineroar statement, as an incin main it is so damn funny to be 50% behind, land 1 Nair and be even.

brawlers counter may be bad, but it looks STUPID fun

Mac’s counter also has the ability to move while using it slightly, it gives mac s when it activates, and it also allows Mac to stall in midair. Also, speaking from experience, mac still has plenty of ability to edgeguard with this and still get back to stage.

I'm so happy to see Mii Swordfighter get an easy A tier with its vertical property. I recently started playing them myself, and let me tell you, countering a Captain Falcon's knee has never felt more satisfying.

Sora's counter isnt consistent, when someone is on stage and someone outstage fails most of the time. And I don't agree with Corrrin his B. Also Sephiroth's counter power up when has one wing.

You gave sora S tier just for edge guarding? Based off that logic then lucario deserves at least an A he teleports to your targets location. And it’s really consistent off stage. Even with low aura it kills almost every time off stage cause you can chose the direction and get a stage spike everytime. He’s just not played a lot so people don’t know that.

13:25 Kinda surprised MockRock didn't mention the giant grab box Brawler has when he counters while in the air but hey it happens.

I didnt know you could pick up Peach's turnips so seeing Bowser holding one made my day

I swear, DLC has just been a sliding scale of counter powercreep. Buff my mans Ike. Why does he have a frame 9 counter with 73 frames of endlag and a tiny forward hitbox and it isn't even the strongest counter to make up for it. What the fuck.

If I remember. Shulk's counter would hit opponents even if they were shielding and was stronger... back in Smash 4 They fucked it up even worse in Ultimate. His arts are also just riskier than before.

I’d put little macs in A teir for how it works out with his move set Now this can fund tou over with how it works so against some moves you’ll get punished hard even if it lands But it’s fast Has a great hit box and Works extremely well with his move set

Another cool thing about K Rool’s counter, you can turn it around when it gets activated! Now this only really works if someone is hitting you from really close, but still cool!

Finally, someone who doesn't think Sora's counter is the best in the game. It's good, for sure, but the best? Lol no.

I use Sora's counter EXTREMELY often. Anytime you whiff something on shield unless they use a quick oos I just counter. Anyone tries to follow up with an attack that's not true counter. And it's so strong people die to it all the time lol. I do wish you could b reverse it. And rare occasions attacks will hit Sora's feet or his back through his counter and it'll whiff. He can also struggle to counter standing on the ledge against ryu up b. It won't hit him most the time just stop the up b.

For some reason, when my buddy plays Sephiroth, his counter feels like it doesn't connect nearly as often as it should.

Ryu/Ken's Focus Attack does not need to be fully charged to activate the crumple state. You're able to crumple with Stage 2 (indicated by the first yellow flash). Stage 3 only crumples longer, but Stage 2 is still great since you can FADC out of Stage 2 after hit to kill confirm/hard combo from it

Have to hard disagree with incineroar. A lot of projectile reliant characters can just follow up on you while you're in the boosting animation and start a combo on you, and if they happen to do it with grab, you givem up neutral for nothing. Then, if you're too far away for them to do that, they can just pop you with a second projectile while you're in the animation. God only knows how many stocks ive lost to charge shot after revenging a missile from over halfway across the stage. Plus, if you're counterjng a projectile, you still have all the space to close before you can use the revenge, and against someone more mobile, the revenge timer can totally just wear out before you get to use it. It's a great counter, but the anti-projectile functionality is a lot better on paper than in practice.

Dang, you did Greninja's counter dirty -Fixed knockback scaling means that if you don't kill off the counter, you can probably combo off of it into a kill -the substitute that spawns can be used to extend hitboxes, in some cases adding 10+ active frames to attacks with very few active frames -Greninja is completely intangible during the attack phase of Substitute, meaning it can be used as a maneuvering option if an attack isn't as viable of a choice -You can pick any direction, meaning you can kill that much quicker from anywhere on the stage, or even use it to recover from a really bad position off stage, two things I felt you *drastically* downplayed

fun fact mii swf counter also stops you in the air as it puts you into clanck animation

I never actually realised that some counters have certain ups and downs i guess you learn something new every day