How to Clean a Grandfather Clock part 2b of 4 

Your welcome. Glad to have helped.

You're welcome Gregory. Glad to have helped.

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@Donald Kendall instablaster :)

@Denver Elisha I really appreciate your reply. I found the site thru google and I'm waiting for the hacking stuff now. I see it takes a while so I will reply here later with my results.

@Denver Elisha It worked and I now got access to my account again. I am so happy:D Thanks so much you really help me out !

@Donald Kendall glad I could help :)

Thanks. And good luck with your repairs.

Thank's very much for your kind words. Yes, so happy for the Cubs. I have been to Wrigley field a few times, great times and memories.

Thanks for the kind comment.

Richard Marshall if I had a do over I would have only used brake cleaning if breaking down or not. If the lacked was on then just more break cleaner. I never heard about the chrome issue but I would run the clock until it didn't work but I would clean and oil it. If it ever gets damaged then a bushing job should fix I'm thinking. The new bushings are hardened and as long as the pivots are burnished a little it should run for another 40 years with oiling. Or just order a new main mechanism. Thanks for the kink comments.

:)

Thanks John, Very kind comment. Appreciated!

Take it apart this is not a proper way to clean a mechanism

@@whatmemories3728 agree. This is no way to teach people to do so. There are so much wrong with this “tutorial” I don’t wanna start. I just feel bad for people who would follow.

Most movements can be repaired. Older clocks don't really need re-bushing as frequently as newer clocks as the brass before WWII was so darn thick it just wouldn't wear out even if they ran dry. But it should get a good cleaning and if any of the pivots are ovalled out too much (more than 1/2 the arbor pin diameter) then those pivots holes will need to be bushed. With such an old clock I would never try to do the cleaning or repair myself as such an old clock is not replaceable. With my modern ~70's clock I know if I goofed it up I could always buy a new-old stock movement by just paying the same cost of a commercial repair shop cleaning/repair fee. So for me there was no downside to trying it myself because if I couldn't do it then my fate was the same, buy new. Your clock on the other hand is just not replaceable and should be cleaned and serviced by a professional horologist. I would use these people if you are in my area but there are others throughout the world. Good Luck! www.arizonaclockco.com/contact.html

Good idea thanks for the tip!

You left the plates in far longer then it should be that’s why the lacquer came off. Read the instructions on the container.

Thanks for the kind comments. I'm going to be doing the re-bushing job on my clock sometime this year. Most likely in the fall. Mind you I will be doing it without the professional quality tools but I have a plan that should work for only doing one clock for under $100 but w'll see how it turns out. As for the fees horologist charge for cleaning and oiling it is a real number and is worth the fees if you can't do it yourself and the clock is worth the work. Most times you can get a new movement for the same price so it really doesn't make sense to have an old clock cleaned and oiled but for clocks that can't be replaced this is a great option. A horologist will do an amazing job normally and they normally don't leave any work undone so yes it would be fair to pay $550 for a full cleaning, repairs, re-bushing, oiling and setup. It can be many many hours of work. Good luck with your clock!

i did dilute per the instructions and it does strip the lacquer. So does brake cleaner and other harsh cleaners. Maybe just hot soapy water. Dawn dish soap maybe the best option.

Unless you want to somehow modify it to add a lift bar to lift the hammers you will have to let it just wind down.

Got it...Thank you!

That is outside of my skills Sorry. Please contact a horologist in your area for best advice.

Most cleaning and oiling will be very close to the same work. However, you might have a main spring or two that you wind up in such a clock and you have to be super careful with such springs. They sell main spring clamps that fit open springs. I'm not an expert on all these types of locks but if you look in the show notes or go to my page you will fine more links and my email is in my "about me" page. I'll help if I can. www.toddfun.com/2016/06/01/how-to-clean-a-grandfather-clock-part-2b-of-4/

Thanks. I try my best to be helpful but I only do these things for fun which is why I call my DIY channel ToddFun.com Thanks for all your comments and input on my clock videos, I'm sure your knowledge will help many people that visit.

True.

Good idea. Thanks.

timesavers.com/ But if you have a spring drive you'll need to be safe as taking one apart is dangerous and difficult without the correct tools. However such tools are also sold on this website I think.

I find the newer (>1970) many time have a clear lacquer and if it is still in place then just wipe down the brass with a mild cleaner. If the lacquer is itself damaged or degraded you need to soak in ammonia solution like I did until all the lacquer comes off but then you have a lot of rinsing and brass cleanup do do like I did. Older clocks have thicker brass plates and need the full treatment if you want them to look bright and shinny again. Really clean, bright and shinny is not imports. Meaning, you can just clean with brake cleaner real well and then scrape out all the pivot holes with some orange wood sticks. It will not be a shining but if you can't see the clockworks then that isn't important anyway.

I know it's 11 months since you asked this question but it's an important one. As you probably have been made aware, yes there is a change in the way that brass plates were manufactured that make early brass much more reactive to ammonia than modern brass. I read that it's mid 1800's but there's no definitive cut-off. One author said that he would not risk a mid 1800's London clock to an ammonia cleaning. It's not just the color either. The ammonia reacts with the brass and breaks out the grain structure. This means that teeth of train wheels can get weakened and break off, etc.

You would have to disassemble the spring in order to clean it really well and re-grease it. And that’s not something I would try and do without the correct tools and experience.

Great tip!

iv done this when cleaning a carburetor it does work. lucky for me i was able to turn it on and leave it going in the garage and left till later

The links in my blog posts should have a source. www.toddfun.com

Also petroleum affects the laquier, even if you submerse it for a few secons.

Sorry I don't. I just do this for fun and to share what I know or learn.

Thanks for the reply. Do you know anyone that does repairs?

Expert Clock Repair Arizona Clock Co. 1660 S. Alma School Rd. Mesa, Az. 85210 480-755-0616 arizonaclock@aol.com

Glad you liked it!

You can clean it with break cleaner. If it is a wind up I don't recommend cleaning the springs or attempting any service yourself. Do the cleaning outside, gloves and eye protection of course. Try well with compressed air, then oil. Take it apart for best cleaning and oiling. If you find bad pivots you should replace or have it serviced by a horologist.

Thanks for the advice! I bought a new barrel spring for this clock a few years ago and installed it myself. It wasn’t that difficult but I certainly appreciate your warning as they can be literally deadly. Thank you for the reply and, again, thank you for posting the videos. I am very appreciative and have learned exactly what I was hoping.

hi

No. They need to be unrolled, wipped and inspected. You will have to get this down by a horologist that has the correct tools because it is very dangerous. There are some youtube videos out there that show how to do this job with the right unwinding tools and you can get the tools from eBay or www.timesavers.com Some videos show how to make the tools but I don't think that is too pratical. There are many different types of main spring winding schemes so to know how to do each one would take a lot of youtube video hunting. Here is a book on "end-loop" type which just one type.: timesavers.com/i-12520970-a-useful-tool-for-winding-unwinding-loop-end-mainsprings-by-robert-porter.html Here is the page of all the tools timesavers sells for main spring work: timesavers.com/c-325976-tools-equipment-related-supplies-clockmakers-watchmakers-specialty-tools-equipment-mainspring-winders.html

Wish I know that before I did this as the lacquer would have been better to leave in place and just clean the pivot holes. Turned into a lot more work for me because I did have to brass bravo it to get the shine back the the lacquer was protecting.

Good idea. Thanks.

But if you do a clock home solution using acetic oil, ammonia, acetone, water and detergent with LESS ammonia and let it LESS time in the ultrasonic ?

Not sure. I have never owned a cable drive. I would think it was best but just don't know.

Todd Harrison Thanks.

True, automotive break cleaner worked the best for me. I don't think I would ever use ammonia based anymore and I did totally tear down the clock and cleaned everything to break cleaner was the best at that point anyway.

Would like to know where. The "non-amonia " name brand I found actually is ammonia based just no smell. So not sure where unless you make your own.

I was quite worried about (2) myself because I foreseen that issue. I used copious amounts of break cleaner to spray out the pivots as well as cleaned them again with cotton sticks and isopropyl alcohol. If I had to do this again I wouldn't use the ammonium cleaner and then wouldn't care about the trying to recover the surface. Lesson learned. :)

Never wd-40 on a clock ever! That stuff will be the end of the clock. You can take mechanism out of the clock then try to really spray it down clean with automotive break cleaner. Use 2 cans with with the attached nozzle straw. Do this spraying outside and not near any sparks or flames! Then blow the mechanism dry with an air compressor or computer air duster can. Then oil the wells and grease the metal contact parts where needed or where you can. See my video: How to Assemble, Oil and Grease a Grandfather Clock part 3 of 4 link: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-_ObRnjNzHK0.html I haven't posted part 4 yet but that will only be on Clock setup.

+Todd Harrison (ToddFun) thank you. I'm buying professional cleaner an Liberty oil an doing it correctly. Clock has been in my family for decades an I want it right for my daughter when my ticker stops.

If this item is really an important heirloom and money isn't the issue I can put you in touch with a professional Horologist. However, as long as you don't lose or damage any parts and don't try to repair any bushings yourself you really can't do too much other harm trying to cleanup and repair yourself. You need to evaluate if you do have any bad bushings because if you do your clock will not run for long even if it is cleaned and oiled. See my older video on how to examine the bushing: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-4U-ROHWuTaM.html

WD-40 is one of the worst "lubricants" you can apply to a clock's movement. Don't use it on clocks.

If it is just the hole in the minute hand you can get a new minute hand here: timesavers.com/ If it is the shaft you'll have to have a local horologist service the clock and most likely make a new shaft. You could order a whole new movement if the unit is already 20 or 30 years old it's a good investment as these movements ware out anyway. www.blackforestimports.com/

@@ToddFun Is the wheel here the center one that I'm looking to replace? timesavers.com/i-24050591-urgos-center-wheel.html I imagine purchasing the replacement movement is the way to go, but I like to tinker and would still like to give fixing it a chance....Side note your videos are awesome! Thanks a lot for making those!

@@ToddFun you mention using brake cleaner in one of your videos. Would you recommend that? I don't think I would want to use an ammonia based cleaner and I also wouldn't want to remove the clear coat if there is one.

@@dominicscardino2304 Either will clean a dirty clock. Break clear the best in my experiences. However break cleaner will remove the clear coat if there is one and most newer clocks do have clear coats. I can't see my movement so it doesn't have to be a shinny, it just needs to be clean and oiled. Ammonia will remove clear coat to after too long of a soak and it doesn't really clean the clock unless you use it hot and with an ultrasonic cleaner tub. Pros will fully remove the clear coat, fix with bushings, buff and re-clear coat. The clear coat is just for looks and if you can't see your movement it really makes no sense to have the clear coat imho.

I agree with your assessment 100%. I did the tear down, cleaning and oiling but didn't do the pivot repair as I wanted to finish the video series and make the DIY pivot repair later just in case I fail and have to order up anew movement. I'm currently editing the last of the video series and will upload shortly. Thanks for stopping by all the way from Northern Ireland!

That should work fine too. It will remove any clear lacquer that keeps the brass plates shinny so you will have that problem. That is way professionals use an warm ammonia with water cleaning solution and an ultrasonic cleaner bath. It will clean all the parts and plates without removing the clear lacquer. Only important if you can see the mechanism or if you like to see a super shinny mechanism, it doesn't affect the functionality of the clock either way.

This is a chain drive so there is no main clock spring. If you have a wind up clock then I would take it to a clock repair service because you need special tools to safely unwind, clean and re-wind a clock spring if it's dirty.

Thanks. I have several mantle clocks and am watching your videos to learn how to bring them back to life!

Not something you should try. They need to be carefully "C" clamped, removed from clock, fully unwound into a long metal strip using special unwinding tools so you don't get hurt by an exploding spring, you need to clean the unwound spring steel and then apply clock "mainspring" grease, then using the same tools to wind and insert spring in clock before removing safety "C" clamp around clock spring. There are videos on how to do this but the tools are expensive and home made tools ideas are sketchy. Best to take it to a horologist if it needs cleaning and greasing. If the clock isn't worth much as most windup clocks after 1970's are not then just do your best to push in some "mainspring" grease into the spring before a weekly winding using Mainspring Grease Bellows amzn.to/2VDBjwS, repeat as needed and hope for the best.

I neeeeed it! HA. I like things to look real nice. It is a hobby activity for me so it's all about enjoying myself and doing the best job possible. Thanks for stopping by.

I feel the same way about doing the best job; such gratification. It got my mom in trouble when she removed the patina from a very old family heirloom trunk. See my comment about the danger of using Brasso.

Disсovеееr How tо Cure Cаndida Infесtiоn Аt Аny Аgе, Еvеn If Yоu’vе Тriеd Evеrуthing Аnd Nоthing Hаs Еvеr Workеd Fоr Yоu BеforеCliсk Hеreее -->twitter.com/abc134a97ebbaec4f/status/784262969735516160 Hоооw tо Clеaаn а Grаndfаthеr Cloсk раrt 2b оf 4

Any is fine but it will also take off any clear lacquer you might have on the brass so don't use break cleaner unless you can really take it apart and buff it out if it has clear lacquer, otherwise the melted lacquer will make a gross mess.

@@ToddFun Thanks very much for the reply. I loved the video. Our Grandfather clock has not run for about 10 years. It stops shortly after winding and reset. The clock is about 45 years old. After watching your video I'm ready to get it working again.

I'm not sure, maybe somebody well read your comment that knows if this is ok. I know brake cleaner works great! I think the cleaner is just a diluted ammonia solution with a little dish soap from what I can tell. If you get it hot such a mix might work. You could try it on some dirty brass pipe to see how things work.

Brake cleaner is what I use right now.I spray it on and it seems to get all the grime out. I don't feel confident to take a clock apart so far.

I'm sure if you are blasting the brake cleaner into all the pivots with the straw it will get the joins so clean that an oiling would be all you need. Just a drop of clock oil on each pivot well. Some day you might build up to wanting to take on apart. If it has wind up springs they need some spring grease and if you take such a spring clock apart you have to use spring clamps so the springs don't hurt. Remember to be safe with such clocks that have spring drives.

Thank you Todd for confirming that brake cleaner blasting does the job I know that eventually I'll have to take it apart to clean the springs. I'll see where I can buy clamps and a wider.

I used this "secret" ingredient in my clock and it stained the brass too......I think using less ammonia and less time could be better, I am not sure

That is a very good idea. Interesting you mention it here as it might help somebody. I see these picks at Goodwill and other Donation Location Stores so I could have got one I'm sure. If I ever do another one for myself I will fully disassemble and us break cleaner. It is fast, cheap and leaves nothing to clean up. I would still use wood picks and cleaner in the pivots however. Thanks for stopping by.

The brake cleaner looks very effective, in fact that might constitute my entire plan if I need one. What brought me to your site was a little prepping ahead. Next week I am going to pick up a handed down, 35 year old Emporer grandfather clock with an Urgos UW66027 movement. A little quick research tells me this movement was discontinued, deemed prone to excessive wear if not oiled regularly. The only replacement requires a chain-to-cable conversion and requires drilling the face... ugh. So that's out. My inlaws surely never oiled it, but then they never ran it regularly either because they said they didn't like having a chime in the house. (I don't think they knew it had a Silent setting). In fact I've never seen it running for as long as I've known them. That along with the fact they are non smokers and fastidious due to dust allergies may be a saving grace for this beautiful clock. I ran it for about 2 hours after they told me I could have it and it ran fine during that time, but then I shut it down til I could get some oil ordered. I'm not sure what I'm going to get, but the works look clean from the photos I was able to quickly take inside.

Sounds like it should be clean. I used the following oil and grease in my videos: astore.amazon.com/tod0f5-20/detail/B00CVZS7NY astore.amazon.com/tod0f5-20/detail/B0047BFLVG

Guys you can pick up a decent ultrasonic cleaner on Ebay for less than $100?

Nice idea. thanks

I agree. Good points. Thanks.

78a67h m

Someone I think your right. :)

No, not too bad. just make sure you dry it real good. In my video I show using an air compressor to get most of the water off then a hair driver for 10 minutes to make sure no water was left behind.

Well, I put the clock back together after cleaning it and now the top gear that is driven by the pendulum arbitrarily sticks. I think all that gunk must have kept the clock in somewhat alignment. Not sure what my next step is...

If any of the pivots have wear the clock will stop. I know when I reassembled my clock I had over tightened the transverse gear that would drive the quarter hour drive which did stop my clock too, but if you don't have gongs (chime tubes) you will not have such a transverse gear to get wrong, however you might have something tightened up wrong someplace. I found my problem by using my finger to load the gears and feel for which gear seemed closed to the hangup. Maybe you have a little play in the escapement or verge that can be tweeked to free up the movement. Lookup my email at ToddFun and send good photos might help me see what possible problems. Real close focused photos would be needed.

Thanks Todd. Just send you an email.

brake cleaner also works on hornets and spiders fyi

Old clocks?

Thanks. yes I'm still learning. I have another crap clock and will try my hand at a manual pivot repair before tying on my nice clock. I have two books on the subject but need to do the pivot job with minimal tools. Y'll love that video when I get it done. :P HA. Its all trash nowadays if one can't fix it by themselves so might as well try even as an amateur. So many of these clocks are just not worth a professionals time to fix, might as well just buy a new NOS mechanism after old one wears out because the cost for a full cleaning and re-bushing job is almost the same as NOS and with NOS you get another 30 years. I'll try my own on video and if I fail I will purchase a NOS from one of the parts dealer websites.

Todd Harrison, replacing a pivot without a lathe? Damn, would love to see that! Pivot replacements are really a shit job, most clock makers that I know( including myself) rather search a whole new axle. But most of us have a stock of these old clocks from over generations of clock makers 😅 keeps the price and labour time low!

Sorry, NOOB misspoke. When I say pivot rework I mean bushing job. HA.

@@ToddFun I hear you. I have a Hermle 340-020 k (made in 1998). several clock shop guys tell me it was a crap, poorly designed movement that might last 20 years. I have pulled it out of the case and will try your brake cleaner solution; since I have nothing to lose as it's just a shiny boat anchor right now. I have seen someplace I can get a new movement for $199. Would you guess they are just a plug and play type thing, or do they require specialized adjustments once installed? The other option I'm looking at is to put in a quartz movement for $100. Some actually sound quite decent. Anyway, thanks for the great video! John - Spring TX.

@@johngraham6839 They will be plug and play movement replacements if you get the correct model match.

Yeah, I know. I'm still learning. Input is always welcome. ;) I didn't know it was lacquered or that the cleaning would remove the lacquer at the time. I was just following the books I had read. Strange none of the books mentioned anything about a lacquered pieces not needed such cleaning. You horologists keep too many secrets to yourselves. ;) I also was scanning RU-vid but never found any good home cleaning videos a DIY person could follow so I used what I had learned from some books and made my own video. I do cover how I should have cleaned the mechanism differently in the video and that I was trying different methods in my video just to show how those different methods could be done depending on how dirty a mechanism was, not that my clock needed such extensive cleaning, so I hope the general public follows and understands just the same. I end the video saying such so please watch the whole video and give me feedback. I'm making one last video on how to do a pivot job by drilling and replacing with a new pivot insert. You'll really crack up when you see how I'm going to try to do this in my DIY method without the correct clamping / drilling jig. I'm going to make my own jig and practice on some stoke brass plate. Maybe you want to watch video 5 on DIY pivot repair before I release it live? If so let me know and I'll send you a private viewing link. If you have ideas I can always edit or re-shoot parts if possible. But once a video 5 goes live I can't change it. Thanks for your time. PS. you have a nice looking little shop in Rockford, MI. Thanks for stopping by.

Hi Todd. Your video is really encouraging. I was given a basic clock repair book as an xmas present -- then my first project was a Westminster chime clock that had stopped. I took it apart and cleaned it with tooth picks, pretty much like you did, and like you, made all my jigs myself. The only proper 'clock' item I bought was oil. LOVE the idea of using polystyrene tiles to hold the cogs! Am definitely going to pinch that off you!! I discovered the problem was a worn Bush in the time train - but my book explained what to do, so I took the plunge. Again, no special tools required, as i already had a set if small needle files. Brass is quite workable, and with a set of bushes I managed OK . Clock is running as happy as Larry. I cant believe I did it myself! I can see that a 'professional' who attends to lots of clocks will want the full armoury of costly gadgets, but for the one (or two....? !) clock enthusiastic amateur there's no need. I didn't laugh at your video, Todd, I though it was wonderful to see how others tackle the same problems with some latteral thinking. So THANK YOU for sharing your experiences! Cheers David

Thanks very much David!

Very very helpful and enjoy all videos even though a cubs fan...cards fan here@@ToddFun

Sir, I hope you're just pulling Todd's leg. If not, it's no wonder why the clock shops are going out of business. I inherited a Howard Miller Grandfather Presidential clock that sat unused for many years. I called three clock shops in my area, asking for a ballpark price for a clean and lube, understanding that if parts were required, the price would go up. The least expensive quote was $525 and the highest was $900 plus parts. I can purchase a new Kieninger triple chime movement for less than the repair cost. The only reason for only calling three shops was that the other two shops listed being in the area as well as the service tag inside the clock, they were all out of business.

Really? I'll have to look that up. Thanks.

Yes.

A sonic cleaner would be more then a new mechanize for me. I will polish the pivots if needed next time, I have research how I can do that task for cheap. I have 2 really bad pivot holes in the simple brass plate. I have plans to put in new hard bushings from Time Savers. I don't think you'll be too pleased with my bushing methods ;). I have been able to get these tasks done without all expensive tools which is the point of my approach. That is, to be able to get crap clocks fixed and working with minimal tools. Many people have old clocks that need work but they can't justify the service fees for a professional with all the tools and skills for a clock they would otherwise put in the trash. I do advise people not to try this themselves if the clock is valuable or a family heirloom. Thanks for your information and comments. Please provide details advice anytime even if I can't afford to follow all advice.

Thanks for the info. I did do a strip job, I wanted to show people other options if they can't bring themselves to take apart the clock correctly. Some people just will not go as far as we will. I wear gloves when I work with cleaners and have used both for 30 years without issue. I'm not saying it isn't bad, just that I feel safe enough and haven't been affected. I use break cleaner often while working on cars and I have got a splatter of break cleaner in my eyes many times. A quick rinse under the utility sink and all is good.

I used IPA in semiconductor processing for decades without issue. MSDS have good information about this chemical. Ethanol can cause similar issues.