I've had this sub in my system all this time never realizing the true potential for flexibility at my disposal. Looks like I was just scratching the surface. Feels like I got a free upgrade. Thanks for the primer Danny.
Thank you for your info! You are the only person explaining this info clearly. I totally respect you and trust you! I know you work hard to help us all and I just want to say thank you so much!! You are a god send. I would send my custom towers to you but each one weighs about 80lbs.
I don't know if my cluttered open-concept listening space with horrible wall constricted placing would justify the expense but the knowledge gained from watching this guy is fantastic. It might be that a servo sub is the first "big" upgrade, and the analog filter to the mains in this video is great thinking.
I was one of the guys asking for advice on How to dial theese Subs in. Just a few days later you came up with this Video. It has been very helpfull. Thank you Danny !
I made a trip to East Texas recently, and was able to hear your NX-Otica Extreme speakers and servo subs in a nice dedicated listening room in Dallas. I was very surprised to hear the bottom end sounded almost identical to my reference speakers. First time I had heard lows which rival my own speakers. Good job
good subwoofer dials and control is the best thing i ever experienced and took my system to another level. that rhythmic plate amp has most of what you need and better than most subwoofers you buy out there. as i only use digital sources i thought i would upgrade to minidsp shd studio, full dsp with digital outputs and more options. and keep my power amps and dac's.
@@dannyrichie9743 now i cant go back, full dsp is just way to fun. i have only one digital to analog conversion but i do have a digital to digital conversion for the minidsp studio to get volume control and room correction dsp. for main speakers not much dsp is needed, high pass and lowering the 3khz region is necessary, 3khz is really loud and harsh before i do a -7 db on it.
@@sudd3660 From a strictly performance standpoint the Mini DSP will suck the life out of the music. The power supply, D/A conversion, and analog output stage is about the same as a $29 CD player form the early 90's.
@@dannyrichie9743 i heard of analog output on mindsp, thats why i bought the minidsp shd studio, it has no analog outputs. ebu/aes right into my belanto dac.
Love your videos, appreciate work you do, keep it up! Why you choose 12" driver in your Servo Sub products not 15" ? is it because of price, or 15" has bigger moving mass and it more difficult to control, or something else? Did you have plans to produce 15" Servo Sub in future?
Higher Mms is actually desired in servo subs as the sensor mass is of lower influence. Larger subs have a lower break up frequencies which means you can't control as fast.
Danny- thanks for this video- 2 questions - how high do these go (300hz?), and do you advocate for the swarm method, to flatten out sub response in-room?
I have used them with a crossover point as high as 300Hz, but 200Hz and lower is a better range to use them in. And the swarm method works great too. We have used that method before at shows to balance out the room loading.
Hi Danny! I want to stack 3 subs each side (6 subs in total). Can I use rca output to feed signal to next sub or I have to use Y splitter from preamp? What is yr recommendation to stack thses subs? Thanks Danny
Love my Rythmik FVX15. About to upgrade to 4x sealed for my dedicated home theater. I'm between the Rythmik G25HP and the JTR RS1. One thing that has been said (by Chris Brinhaver at PS Audio and Matthew Poes, among others) about servos is that the feedback mechanism is inefficient because the amp has to dedicate a lot of power to correcting the driver's motion. I'm wondering if anyone knows how much of a concern that actually is, given I'm aiming for clean performance with no compression at reference levels in 4500 cu ft. The CEA-2010 output numbers are actually higher on the G25HP than on the RS1, which makes me think this isn't a major concern.
Hello Danny. I was born and raised all my life in East Texas. The accents are so thick it's like a different language. But the way you say the word "and", lol. Ayuund. Three syllables?!? Reminds me of Dolly Parton or Loretta Lynn
Hi, Sir I love your explanation about this new breed of servo controlleb amp sub. W hen I first enter into these audio hobby,I always hear from local audiophile here in our place Toronto ,that if your sub didnt came from Velodyne...that means you are not getting the right bass.And Velodyne is synonimou with servo system sub as they always say. Ironically asVelodyne stop making their ULD SERIES the quality of their sub decline until it was sold to a german audio dealer.Ive got a simple questio,If you dont mind pls ,the servo system inside the RYHTMIC sub how does it differ from the servo system of VELODYNE sub. And also is there any plan for RYTHMIC to come out a DOWN firing sub...if not why? Great thanks
So if I was going to run these subs with the tripple towers and use a 8 inch point source driver, I can just run the point source in OB instead of running it in a TL box? Or do you think a TL would still benifit? Im guessing running the PS driver in OB would raise the x-over point and speed the driver up. I have industrial hearing damage and I can't hear past 12k and 10k is really where I listen to max so tweeters aren't really needed so a good 8" PS should do me for the highs.
i have only one sub and it sits on the right side of my room, is it better to make it play flat with the right speaker and just leave the left speaker alone?
So where can I get the necessary gear to do these measurements. I have a pair of Wharfdale Diamond 14's that I need to tune with a Paradigm Reference Servo 15 subwoofer.
Hi Danny , very nice show , my question is ; If my amp as a input impedance of 28 kilo ohms , so if I do understand it , I need a .07 uf for cut my frequency to 80hz ? Thank you in advance !
Id buy the filters if he sold them. Ive been wanting to try cutting off below 80hz to my main speakers. A simple line diagram would help clarify how to diy the filter and connection options. If a reply, Thanks.
Planning to purchase your subwoofer and stand mounted main speaker kits. The electronics that I have are two vintage Japanese mono tube integrated amps. The output from the amps includes taps for 16, 8, and 4 ohms, plus common. How should I connect the integrated amps, the subwoofer and the main speakers?
@@dannyrichie9743 Yes. There is one volume control for each amp. This means that to adjust the left/right balance, each amp's volume has to be fine-tuned manually. One possible future project would be to have a remote controlled device that connects the volume knobs somehow so that the balance and amount of volume could be adjusted remotely.
@@robertst1218 A separate volume control for each channel is a huge pain. I think I would by-pass the volume controls of each amp and add a good pre-amp.
These amps have an amazing vintage tube sound. If or when I add a preamp would probably just start over with all new electronics to get the best possible sound. Maybe I should hold off on the subwoofer, until all new amp and preamp are in the picture.@@dannyrichie9743
What about tube amps for music? - it is written on the site that the resistance at the output of the amplifier will change all the time under load (including due to changing temperature) and it is impossible to set up the subwoofer correctly ... it cannot be coordinated with the stereopair and it will not dissolve ... (by the way, other manufacturers silent about it)
I'd grab a multimeter and put it on to continuity mode (beep mode) and put 1 on the - of the speaker level input, then the other on the ring of the RCA. Does it beep? If yes, don't do it. What you want to do is work out if the - post of the speaker input is ground and connected to anything else. If it is, don't do it.
What do you think of connecting to high-level like a modern day REL subwoofer? Isn’t it better to run speakers (esp. large floor standing ones) full range via high level connection?
There are big advantages in rolling off the bottom end of your main speakers. That is a subject that I will cover in my next video that deals with bi-wiring and bi-amping.
REL sucks big time, huge time, compared to Rythmik like you cannot even FATHOM. you need to listen to the difference from a sub that you can ACTUALLY tune, to one you can't and is above 1K, like REL. they are coasting on a reputation and pure dogma. Their high tier is a different story, but for what you pay for a single , you instead get 2 (or more) open baffle GR subs and REL goes back to absolute stupid investment. So all that leaving your speakers full range for the sake of transparency and what not, BS. Seriously. It's a lousy argument. The sub bass on its own relieves the speaker woofers and lowers overall distortion for mid bass and midrange, depending of your speakers.
@@dannyrichie9743 Do they have a website with photos of their work? Basically I want it to look like it’s not DIY. Do they veneer the flat packs? Or do they offer nice painting? Or magnetic cloth grill on the face of the sub?
@@g0g0Sutra then you use velocity feedback with a sensor that is noisy. It's not desirable. You want a driver with an accelerometer. In theory all drivers can be used, but there are practical limitations. These limitations mean thay servos are only useful for bass
That's a great product. I've been wanting to get something to use with my integrated Amp to crossover my subs at around 60-80hz. The problem I run into is that I use an integrated Amp so, I can't install anything between the preamp and Amp "obviously since its integrated" what options are out there? How can I crossover my subs when using an integrated amplifier...
@@dannyrichie9743 this is a bit confusing. When I was using a preamp and power Amp it was easy. But when using an integrated is confusing how to do this. Would it be possible you could make a video explaining how to integrate subs when using an integrated? I currently have dual subs, but the way I run them is using the pre-outs of my Amp "yamaha A-S1200 " while this works for the subs my towers are still putting out a full range signal...
You lost me with the filter box. Does that plug into the back of the receiver/processor or the subwoofer amp? And how does it work to affect the crossover from the "mains" (towers or satellites) to the subwoofer(s)? Also, I can kind of see how using the controls on the back of the amp to flatten the responses, but I was lost on how the changes affect the output. In other words, if I change the "A" control, then what happens to "Z" on the output (driver/room) side? So confused... it's like I can see a shadow of a shape showing through a foggy day, but I really can't recognize what it is, much less see it clearly. Thanks for these vids. They are opening new ideas in how I move my home theater forward.
Danny, if a sub has two identical woofers facing to opposite directions, does it make sense to use two separate amps to do individual driver equalization? If so, would I then have to divide a box into two separate volumes?
@@dannyrichie9743 Thank you, Danny. I guess I should formulate my question somewhat better. It's not about amplification but rather about separate and different (amp) tuning for each of two woofers in one sub (in a case when woofers face to opposite directions). Let's say, to use different EQ settings for one woofer in a sub that's facing a side wall and for another woofer in a same sub that's facing a "free space" into a room. Is that desirable (worth it) concidering the low frequency wave lengths?
@@IliyaOsnovikov With our open baffle servo subs they are loaded into an H frame design. One can face forward or backward and it matters not. One amp is all that is needed for the pair. They then act as one driver. So there is no need to alter them independently.
@@dannyrichie9743 Thank you. Let me be more specific: I am trying to learn about in-room tuning of bi-polar sealed box subs or sealed box woofer section of a floorstanding 3(4)-way speaker with side mounted woofers (one woofer on the left side of a speaker box and another on the right side). Would there be any benefits (in a real size listening room) from driving them separately with somewhat different EQ settings or that's not worth it?
@@IliyaOsnovikov If they are truly playing down low only then they are really producing a more omni directional pattern just like when you throw a rock into a pond. Having them on a separate plate amp will give you a lot of flexibility.
can you do all that w/a remote control, your smart phone ! and an app ? that needs to be available nowadays! what a PIA to get up make adjustments! saw a sub like that ! but it was a tiny 10" sub ! Danny please not just a talking head ! demo the adjustments in vivo ! ( yes i realise we may not be able to hear the difference )
I use all this you have said, and I attest it does what it does and sounds fantastic and seamless. Yet, let me tell you out there there is a LOT of people that prefer to use those REL idiotic limited subs. All I've gotten really from forums is that all the rigmarole is worth to be called a frankensystem. I have the feeling that in 6 months from now opinion will start shifting. I've also seen the power that a figure as yourself saying useful stuff like this has in the audiophile crowd overall. Folks are just negationists for the darn sake of it, but don't understand even what a cap does to the signal. It's just... Tiring. People just loves to throw money to their problems and expect to see them solved eventually. Especially when there is a dogma that pushes them to throw more money because "you get what you pay for" and sky is the limit.
REL-ACOUSTICS are very good at what they do and have great products on the market. I have been using their ST range for years and conclude once dialed in nothing comes remotely close in terms of musicality, pitch definition speed and subterranean depth levels . I am now exploring open baffle speakers and shall be including open baffle servo Subwoofers. I would like thank Danny (GR-RESEARCH) for his/Their hard work, very informative video and products. P.s Just because product may not be to your liking, it doesn't necessarily mean that it is a bad product.
@Mike Glavin This will be an alternative to my martin logans and rel combo. Pure Audio Project, Spatial Audio, Gr - Research Are leading the way in open baffle loudspeaker designs. Gr - Research offers the right application and synergy (open baffle subwoofer) for the aforementioned technology.
@Mike Glavin More than likely get a cabinet/joinery firm to them for me. Then get them sprayed by a coach works garage. I live in there plenty to choose from.
@Mike Glavin Thank you brother, Danny has open up a whole new avenue for me to explore. The aim is to accompany open baffle loudspeakers and subwoofer with the Audio research Classic range. I am not into ridiculing any manufacturers products, but i do want to utilise their products uniformly in what actully works. Bless my Brother!!!
What is a minimal measuring setup? What equipment, tools, software is needed to measure frequency response accurately and to get the most out of speaker placement, and subwoofer settings?
@@dannyrichie9743 Hey.. you said it brotha! X-actly my point, if a GRR open baff sub can can eat an SVS or JL subs lunch. The product will sell itself. People just need a little nudge toward your direction, good demo vid will do all the persuasion ; )
Danny, today on one of the forums I've seen a warning message regarding Rythmic Audio company. The poster claims that the company's web site is no longer operational and that it's customer service is not responding to calls. Can you comment on this alleged situation?
Why 6dB? 3dB is twice the power. Isn't the general rule of thumb that doubling cone area gives 3dB. Doubling wattage gives 3dB. Doubling cone area and power give 6dB. When you cross from 1 speaker to the other there is no additional power, just cone area, so why is it 6dB? If each driver is at 85dB at their -3dB point then when they crossover they should together play at 88dB, no?
Depends on phase between sub and mains. For in phase system at crossover point such as LR4, the level of each driver is -6dB to measure flat. However, the power response will -3dB at x-o.
P/COG ratio defines price to cost of goods. So woofer is tops $60 and amp $100 retail $950 makes it a book example of ripoff. Typicalky COG is 180-280% Higheat COG have cosmetics 300% or 350% for brands like Chanell...on 5th a enue... this COG is 590%, I suggest to engage shrink ( and not that termal wrap type).
Doesn't have anything to do with "old" or "new". And the second voice coil as a sensor is not new at all. It was used in the I.Q. System.One from 1990 for example. I doesn't make much difference by the way what type of sensor is used since almost any suitable sensor is so much more sensible and faster than the movement of the woofer. And don't fall for the micky-mouse-physics stating that the placement of the sensor would induce any type of latency. Try poking someone with a broom-stick. There will be no latency between you moving the stick on one end and the pokee receiving the poke 1.5 meters away from you. The voice coil is not a gummi-bear. It is ridig and a sensor placed 3cm away from the voice coil will still move at the very same time like the coil does.
I so wish GR-research made Servo Subs and Amps for car audio. No one makes servo subs for cars and SQ and SPL guys would buy it up. Many guys are building large 4 and 6th order bandpass boxes for SPL trying to get low end extension. While SQ guys are doing open baffle setups and transmission lines. All of which is to get the lows sounding right for them. If I could get a pair of servo 10s on a 3k rms amp I would jump on it.
@@FOH3663 Yes & no. Some were doing that in the 1980s-1990s. In a car, they used the truck as the enclosure with a baffle under the rear window deck. In a wagon or van they would build a baffle wall somewhere behind the front seats so that the space behind the wall would be the enclosure. By "open baffle" in these cases, it just means the woofers were not in a typical sealed or ported wooden box. If you open the truck, or rear hatch/doors, you can see the woofers mounted in the baffle.
@@FOH3663 Search for IASCA Finals they are still doing open baffles and Transmission lines in competition to this day. Some cars will vent to the free air underneath the vehicle and transmission lines will often put the port ending in the center of the front of the vehicle so you do have all of your base coming from the rear. Another one that is more common today is small sealed enclosures in the dash or kick pod area with high excursion subs. Ima try and find a link, these are some really crazy car audio systems. One guy I follow had transmission line boxes made for his doors of his small car.
What about a servo? I expected a bit more words. This repeats every new vid: something is shown, one graph, purchase my cables and crossovers. This is not a content ((
