@@anthonythibodeau81 no. Spinning the turbine to create boost is more efficient than blasting air into the intake. The turbine is designed to be spun by high pressure air
@@anthonythibodeau81 also a good idea, but I believe that could create a more complex system as the extra air would have to be calculated for to get the correct air/fuel mixture. By just spinning the turbo you would avoid that and have the engine running as it normally would on the same fuel and ignition map.
not that Volvo. Only thing that malfunctioned was the battery. And a pebble on the highway cracked the windshield but that doesn't count as a reliability issue.
You know what's also an air compressor? A supercharger. They supercharged their turbocharger. It's a compound twin-charged engine and they so swedishly understated that fact by not slapping a "twin-charge" badge on the back of it.
This is a system we have in marine diesel generating sets for decades. It actually compares the charge air pressure with the fuel supply and if necessary it energizes a solenoid that supplies the air to the periphery of the compressor wheel. Very effective system.
What's the purpose in a system like that? Generators should be running at a constant rpm don't they? this sounds like a system for when you're changing rpm a lot and don't want to lose power during that time
@spazzywhitebelt the rpm is constant but not the load. Moreover it is very useful when the engine starts and fuel is injected without enough air, thus smoke is produced. With this system, the turbo will spool and supply combustion air during start-up.
@@camialeh nope, I haven't. I was figuring marine power generation was propulsion but now it's sounding like power generation (which I should have figured first haha)
Had this idea years ago. I kept eyeballing my scuba tanks, wondering what we could do with that. It's extremely cool to see someone turn the concept into reality.
@@Bally46 🫥 wtf are you on about? Lag only happens in a turbo because it runs off exhaust gases. Belt driven turbos aka “pro-chargers” don’t have that issue. In the end, they are all compressors. Even an engine is a compressor. The thing is he was talking about compressors and a solution to a certain compressor which HAS lag.
Point of order! Rally fans will know that a system like this was used by Ford on the 2005 Focus RS WRC car. They even used the larger USDM rear bumper to conceal the tank for the pressure. The only major difference is that they used the already significant boost pressure created by the turbo to pressurize the tank.
I was looking for this comment. Thank you for bringing it up. The channel „driving 4 answers“ has a good video about it with the title „FORD‘s hidden boost tank“. TL;DW same idea, much larger tank (it‘s the whole bumper lol) and the pressure comes from the turbo itself (when boost is sufficient). I don’t know if that approach is really feasible for road cars but I like that there is no additional compressor. Obviously you know all this, I’m just mentioning it for the next people.
well racing is a platform where a lot of experiemntal things are being presented and tested as well. Many invention in racing will eventually come to cars, just look at Formel 1 over the years, for example turbo formel 1 or that time they designed formel 1 cars with adjustable hight (ground effect), etc.
This combos is so good. Why no one thought about this a while back in the 90's? Adding existing technologies onto an turbo. A simple solution that works
In the 90’s, the focus was on turbine materials and bearings that could handle the boost. Once turbochargers were reliable, people started looking for solutions to lag. This fast-spin system would put enormous stress on a 90’s turbo.
there was a guy that did similar like 15 years ago. He loaded a bunch of scuba tanks(3000 PSI) into his trunk and used them as his boost. No turbo, no NOS. Just pressurized air. He was trying to get the valve system for it sold to people but not many were interested.
was developing something similar called a venturi turbo, instead of relying on exhaust driven turbos it stores compressed air and regulates a tiny jet down the middle of the pipe, it can increase pressure vs your rpm by opening additional solenoids the concept basically uses a tiny jet of air to move a lot of air in your intake pipe and since it stores the air in a tank it doesn't need an intercooler the boost limit is whatever the max psi of your tank is but preferably only half of that tops so it lasts longer without having to start compressing with the gas pedal down and probly way below this so you don't blow the engine
They would require the power of a traction battery, and then you might as well have a hybrid. Cheapo electric turbos from ebay might draw 1 hp, but that is hardly boost.
The compressor compresses the air into a compressed space, the air compressed into a more compressed space, into a more compressed space is reference to compression on you space.
That was my first thought too. I prefer simpler cars from the 90s (with an upgraded stereo). So many features of new cars ultimately just become points of failure
@@stephenkeller8208I think the biggest issue with this is you can only charge the tank with the same pressure as your running boost pressure - so you'll need to increase tank size to store a usable amount of gas. I'm guessing this is the reason Ford made a big tank in the rear bumper rather than in the engine bay. A discrete compressor could charge a tank to much higher pressure, storing the same mass of air in a smaller tank.
Some people use NOS for this, and many aftermarket ECU's have a map specifically for using NOS just long enough to get enough exhaust gas to spool the turbo. It all happens automatically when you floor it, no need for a NOS button even.
So youre adding weight just to make the turbo more efficient? And also making your system more complicated and expensive. So youre creating problems just to solve one that doesnt Need to be solved in a car that will never see the drag strip. GENIUS!
@@wyndhamcoffman8961 Your idling engine is going to be running 100k rpm and >50hp. That much power and gear ratio... so much easier to just have an air tank. It's not like this is a new invention. This is how most jet engines are started up. It's the lightest, most compact solution for a mobile application.
@@wagnerrp that makes sense, if it's the lightest solution. And it would make sense to get that fast boost. Who's engine is idling at 2K rpm. My car idles at 600. My work truck you can adjust it between 600 and 800rpm. I've seen generators fire up at 2100rpm; but they will generally have a lower stand by idle.
I'd love to hear more about modern centrifugal superchargers, especially those with variable drive ratios and electric assist ones I've heard rumors about for years
Car usually don't use that nowadays because if you want low end torque you'll use positive superchargers and if you want high end power boost then you'll use turbos and turbos are way more efficient and produce more boost than centrifugal supercharger that's why they aren't used in cars but yeah you can find those in some bikes because they need very little space to install compared to others two and if talking about electrically assisted superchargers than porsche introduced electric turbos which are better than electric superchargers so it's a better choice..
@@Shayan_Jawed410 Turbos are not more efficient than centrifugal superchargers, aside from that I get what you're saying. I'm a huge fan and proponent of them, where applicable, and I think they're erroneously overlooked
@@Shayan_Jawed410 That's not true. They're excellent for high revving engines, mid sized engines without room for the necessary routing for turbos, etc.
@@owenblount7334not quite since the compressor only runs when you want to. It’s electric too so into won’t really matter if you run it off the battery during peak requested power. The system is called PowerPulse is you want it research more.
I drove a 2013 Volvo S60 with a 1600cc V4 engine and I can tell you the kick and jump of that turbo was something. I only sold it because I got too old for the excitement haha
In the mid 80's Lancia prevented turbo lag with a centrifugal supercharger. When the turbo was spooled up, the supercharger would deactivate, and the turbo would kick in.
Volkswagen also used an interesting way of getting rid of turbo lag. By using both supercharger and turbocharger in their 1.4 TSI engines from around 2005 to 2011. Below 3000 RPM the supercharger is working, above 3000 RPM the supercharger gets disconnected and the turbocharger delivers the power.
Volvo uses twin charged engines too, PowerPulse and twin charging don’t really solve the same issues though. Volvo uses PowerPulse on diesels where you use a generally pretty big turbo that has lots of lag. While the petrol engines don’t use PowerPulse, since the turbos are smaller. Volvo has uses both twin charged engines with mechanical supercharger that gets disconnected via a clutch before the turbo takes over and systems with a turbo and electrical supercharger that feeds the turbo air.
@@einar8019 No turbos on a diesel is surely anemic, but its one of the most trouble free engine type there is. A N/A Gasoline engine is a picky diva compared to a N/A diesel.
@meikelinde1623 I will agree that, as an old car enthusiast, I feel like an old man yelling at clouds... I'm not giving up the turbo in my diesel Ram, though. The only reason her 7,000 lb ass can keep up with traffic is because of the power of boost and friendship! X3
Only on the high perf diesels though. But it worked fantastically well. It gave the 2.0l 4-cyl same transient performance as a 3.0l BMW. I had one in my V90 and the PowerPulse as it was called stopped working (a hose jumped off) and it was instantly noticeable
@quietone610 Yes, it can help a lot, but it's can also be a time bomb if something goes wrong so if someone ever does that they must be careful and make a failsafe for it because air bursting your airtank ain't good talking from experience was short term deaf and right leg broke just from pressure.
@@leaczy349that's easy you just make one surface at the end of the tank weak and thin compared to the rest of it so if the pressure inside goes beyond operation range, that's where it breaks from, then that side of the tank could be vented upwards or out of the tail of the car
Not sure how well this would work for gas engines but diesel guys have been using compound turbo setups for a long time. You have a small turbo that spools fast, but also the flow of a big turbo. You get to see some pretty crazy boost numbers too. My truck peaks a little over 70, and sled pullers or drag racers build setups that make well over 100 psi all the time.
I used to have a big rig with 3 brake valves and a dual independent air system. The 3rd valve was not tied to the brakes anywhere but the compressor output. If I popped the green valve on take off it would spool up my turbo going up hills and help maintain even power distribution as I climbed hills.
I think there was a way simpler solution to that problem invented sometime around 1950s and used by Subaru on their racing cars. It was a jet engine-like burning chamber added between the exhaust manifold and the turbine. Even though the oxygen level is lower in the exhaust gases, it's still enough to let the injected fuel burn right before the turbo and build enough pressure to spool the turbine all the way up. That's why their race cars started from low revs, while everybody else would have hitting the red line right before the start.
It can create a tremendous amount of heat, rally cars running ALS would sometimes just run one or two stages before they had to change the turbo. 😄 And... emissions is out the window. 🔥😄
It's called power pulse and is on the volvo D5 diesel engines (possibly on petrol too ?) I have it on my Volvo V90 Rdesign pro D5 awd and works very well.
This must be relatively new or a tech they’ve used in their non-T6 engines which have a supercharger to compensate for turbo lag. I have one and while it’s not a Mad Max sized supercharger, it does the job and is fun to listen to.
This is utterly impressive. Some including myself do have suggestions though. We know there as bypass technologies like waste-gates and blow off valves. How about storing excess intake air pressure to a compressor tank?
A handy plenum. Not "too" clever, but space required used to be a severely limiting factor. Usefully fitting it into an engine is an excellent accomplishment . "Comp, comp, comp, compressibility, that's the beauty of Gas!" Only old English people and old school British Gas Engineers will know what I mean by that.
It frustrates me how people enjoy the sounds of turbo lag, not realizing it makes your vehicle inefficient and the performance goes down while unnecessarily stressing out the parts. But then again, people lift their vehicles up despite the increased wind noise, higher center of gravity, and less fuel efficiency. Its all about aesthetic I guess. Form over function.
Basically more air intake means more turbocharger. Try adjusting your hood to have holes and make sure the exhaust is powerful enough to let the dead air go
I went to a tractor pull 35 years ago where semi truck had a large compressor on the back ….. named the general Lee and yes it was orange with the rebel logo
Man I've been thinking about this since I saw too fast too furious as a kid. Although the idea in my head was for the pre compressed air to go directly to the intake
Sidewinter just stores the previous boost waste pressure and uses that when you floor it again. More efficient and there is no turbo lag and it even saves on weight.
Don't forget get about the AC compressor. That's driven by the engine(a compressor) fed by the turbo(still a compressor) boosted by the air tank(also, a compressor)
I like Mazda’s approach with naturally aspirated engines. I own a Mazda 3 2.0 skyactiv. I have direct comparison with my father’s Ford 1.0 ecoboost. The Mazda is smoother, quicker and ( somehow ) gets better mileage. Reliability isn’t even a discussion.
And since you now have a compressor and compressed air storage, ya may as well have airbag suspension with adjustable ride height and driver-from-seat-controlled tire pressures along with an air horn.
Or.. you get a twin charger, which is a turbo for high rpms and a supercharger for lower rpms Or you get a twin turbo with a small turbo for low rpms and a big turbo for high rpms Or a variable turbo, idk if they are actually commercialized or if it’s just a niche concept Or you get that one thing I forgot the English name of, where you burn the unburnt fuel inside the exhaust which will spool the turbo quicker But adding a big gas canister just doesn’t seem like the best way to do it but idk I'm not an engineer
