How To FEEL The 7/8 And 7/4 Time Signatures (And Write Groovy Music With Them) 

:D

This has been the most burning theoretical question to me for well over 30 years. Sounds to me our host is saying that it's meaningless (except wrt notation). But you seem to be saying there is a audible difference? But for a few proud minutes, I UNDERSTOOD the time signature denominator. Thanks pal!

@@TheSimonScowl thats why I said quick and dirty. If you don't have the composer's sheet music, then you are left trying to figure it out yourself. This "rule" helps me grasp it a bit better.

The way I understood it is you have to establish the tempo first. Then if it's "a bar plus most of a bar" (Money) then it's 7/4 and if it's "not quite a bar" (eg Jocko Homo by Devo) then it's 7/8. Most songs with 7/8 or 7/4 have a 4/4 section too and you use that to decide which is which, or if not then you just tap your foot along and decide that way on the basis of which feels more natural.

Roger Waters wrote "Money". Not that Gilmour's opinion is invalid, I agree with him, but he didn't write it.

​@@TheSimonScowl Let me offer a very different theory-answer. Like a lot of things (“when is it D# vs Eb”) the difference in x/4, x/8, x/16 comes from written music in staff notation. In staff notation you were expected to describe the pace with an adjective, in rough order from “solemn” to “broad sweeping” to “emotional” to “walking” to “moderate” to “cheerful” to “lively” to “frantic.” So you were meant to listen to the piece and choose one of these adjectives to describe it, except they were written in Italian - grave/largo/adagio/andante/moderato/allegro/vivace/presto. Italian also has diminutives and augmentatives, so “a very emotional pace,” “adagissimo”, “a bit cheerful of a pace,” “allegretto.” Based on those categories a quarter note has a certain approximate/expected duration. The gravé quarter note is expected to be around 2s long, could be 1.5 or 2.5 or even 3, but if your music specified a quarter note 1s long that would be too far away and you'd want to switch it up, treat what you were calling a quarter note as a gravé eighth note. The largo quarter note is expected to be around 1.2s long, the adagio to be 1s long, andante 750ms, moderato 550ms, allegro 450ms, vivace 375ms, presto 325ms. Again these are not exact so only convert them to BPM with some caution “the BPM just needs to be near this reference value not equal to it,” these are g≈30bpm, l≈50, ad≈60, an≈80, m≈110, al≈130, v≈160, p≈185. So when I use a BPM tapper to tap along with this video 1-2-1-2-1-2-3, 1-2-1-2-1-2-3, I find something like 250, 260 “bpm” tapping along with those numbers. If you are going to write something that feels like a very frantic System-of-a-Down song “1and2-1and2-1and2and3and1and2-1and2-1and2and3and...” then I should write “very frantic” or *prestissimo* and then the proper time signature is 7/4. But if he is instead targeting smooth and funky then I should write *moderato* or upbeat swingy I should write *allegro* and then I should write it as 7/8. Or if he wants to play very moody emo with the same speed of 1-2-1-2-1-2-3 counting, some notes sustain for the whole bar or multiple bars, I should describe it as 7/16 (and potentially then regroup the measures into 14/16 and rewrite as 7/8 with an underlying count “1-and-2-and-3-and-4-5-and-6-and-7-and-8”.

I blurt out something that muses me and go back and try and figure it out! Occasionally I get something. Cool comment btw!

My pleasure :)

Same here. Even wrote a little 7/4 punk ditty, back in the day, 4+3, but it seems now as if 3+1+3 might fit too because the middle beat of the bar is a rest. 🤷‍♂️

This can limit yourself in your righting though. There are A LOT of other rhythmic permutations in a bar of 7/4 so you might wanna try those out as well.

Cool! Break out the Shopska salad baby!

What a coincidence... I just finished writing the script for it ;-)

@@MusicTheoryForGuitar Wow... Can't wait to watch it...Excited:)

@@MusicTheoryForGuitar I'd love to see a video discussing why there can't be a 3/3 time signature. I got asked this and I really had no proper answer to it.

And outshined And Spoonman

frame by frame or Discipline King Crimson Rocks them odd times like no one

projekct* have some of the grooviest songs of all time

Shhhh don't jinx it ;)

@@MusicTheoryForGuitar - Dang it! I'm so sorry that in my enthusiasm I've let our side down, it appears. Love, love, love your channel! I eat it up. More of this and everything else you put out, please.

1 dislike now 😔

You beat me to this comment! :)

Isn't "Tom Sawyer" by Rush also in 7/8?

@@daddyd543 yes, but from what I understand it is even more of a mixed meter than Freewill in terms of shifting from 4/4 to 7/8. I admittedly hadn't tried to count that one before and had to look it up! I 😜

daddyd543 only the signature run. The rest of it is 4/4

more like 2+2 =5, am i right but for real though, 2+2=5's intro is in 7/8 too

Ayyyeee 🎉

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You are probably right. I heard Don Ellis explicitly said in an interview that he was inspired by "unsquare dance", though I could not find the original interview.