WARNING: Did some testing with this exact same setup and this no longer seems to apply with DE pathing. Stand ground seems to work a lot like aggressive when patrolling on DE except your units will mill about randomly before attacking more. Even if you use no attack stance first I don't seem to be able to surround many units and it just seems patrolling with aggressive is more consistent. This video needs a DE update and I wouldn't use this without practicing it yourself to know what you're doing.
I noticed SotL has done an update for it. He now suggests doing Attack Move most of the time, even though you might sometimes get melee unit stuttering. But that he thinks is just better if you're not as strong of a micro-er. You might forget your guys are on patrol and run all the way back - maybe splitting your army in half or something (half get procced to attack & the other half done recognise enemies nearby).
What about formations? I heard that when engaging with cavalry its good to put ur units on flank formation to surround enemies, or also, in general, use staggered instead of line formations to easily surround a large grp of xbows with ur knights for example.
Youre an awesome caster. First time visiting the channel. Whenever I'm watching T90, I'm excited when youre co casting because I know you're gonna be watching the small details I care about
The 4:43 enemy patrol test is wrong. You approach AI when it switches to run back. This way only half of enemies got aggroed right away while the rest of the army continued their patrol. This has a tremendous effect since it split enemy attack in half for a few seconds, letting you take advantage of the square law. If you could review this, it would be great. No player is going to patrol away from your units. Always into.
Depends on whether they're actively watching that group or just leaving it patrol because it's better than standing around. You can definitely catch them patrolling away at times. But it would be good to see what happens if they're paying attention and patrol into.
Hmm... I've never seen that. Especially since people usually used patrol as attack-move command. You also have to catch them the moment they're turning around or you need to have fast enough units to catch them afterwards. And if you attacked them from a side, which seems to be another common option, I guess it would turn out differently as well. So many questions requiring a test. :D
I mean, people do sometimes leave units on patrol rather than standing around if they're focused elsewhere and you can catch them going the other way. But you're right, your units would need to be fast to catch a group patrolling away *and* their units would need to be fast to split away into two easily defeated groups like they do here :p So yeah, the test isn't very representative in that sense...
I think there should be a stance where units fight in formation. It might not be very useful for competitive player but at least it makes up for good scenic battles. It always bugged me that the formations would all get messed up when ordering an attack. Also, box formation Kamayuks....
Does this work when you have knights vs spearman? and when you have spearman and the enemy has knights? i had like 5 spearman and my enemy had like 8 knighs and he killed me i couldn't understand why.. he had upgrades and was frank so xD but then i won, i was japanese and i knew japanese win to castle units so i made spearman and japanese castle units to counter everything he had xd
465marko opposite of ranged; when a unit has like a sword or a spear and has to come very close to the enemy to attack, not exactly 0 range cause units like the steppe lancer have 1 range but are still melee
Pretty damn convincing. I will certainly be trying to do this (for a long time before I actually become any good at it, like every other part of this game).
Yup, it does. Just tested with the same scenario as here. You also have attack move, but it's really janky. Units broke off and chased more often even when on stand ground and it came out more even. And despite that, in one attack move + stand ground scenario they were so intent on getting to the location that I lost the fight. I would stick with stand ground + patrol.
Hi Dave, can you do another test for enemies that are running away or doing hit-and-run? Basically, I see that my units, whether Eagles or Knights bump into each other repeatedly when chasing fleeing villagers or Archers. This consistently results in fewer hits and hence escape in case of a villager or taking more damage than ideal in case of kiting archers. Staggered formation will be counter-productive because the units will take ages to completely go through a single-wall hole. Thanks.
Great tip Dave! But quick question: When will you be coming out with merch that me and my mom can buy?? Looking forward to more videos and dank memes to come with it. hmu if you need anything
Really great strategy. im very interested to hear of anything else you may have. Thankyou sir. Id like to see this strategy applied to cataphracts and units with trample damage. Or halberdiers with proximity damage.
These are really nice strategies. But, do enemy units have disciplined formations as you showed? Nonetheless, I'm going to follow your first strategy immediately as it's most remarkable to me.
It's only better if the enemy is running from you. You get more contact with the enemy so you deal more damage, but you would also take more damage if they fight back. When your units are tight some of them stack on top of each other and you get higher chance for 2v1s in your favor within the fight. I feel confident I am right, but haven't tested it. You should test it, just in case.
back in starcraft 1 noone uses attack move, even though there is one, and instead everyone uses patrolling into the enemy with a bit of microing, and it looks similar to what is happening here, except in SC units don't go through each other so just patrolling into enemy is the best one.
Great video! Keep going! The community is growing bigger and bigger (also definitive edition will blow a fresh wind bringing a lot of new people in the game) and with your efforts you could grow into a major informative channel on AoE. Definetly keep going!
How about trying this with the staggered formation? Units are more spread out, more surface area to take the fights, less grouping of units next to each other which lessens idle time. I always use staggered formation for melee battles, and it's worked great for me so far.
Apart from using a mixed unit composition and avoiding bad engagements, what are some ways to respond when an opponent uses the tactics discussed in this video against you?
I tried "attack move" on steam HD version and results from "attack move" are much much worse then from "patrol". Do you know explanation? PS I used champions instead of eagle warriors.
awesome vid. my standard was to patrol aggro on staggered formation. Does staggered form make any difference? Its defs better than the standard line formation patrol
doesnt this mean...there is a lot of random staff going on? i mean f.e. the Differenz between surviving with 11 and losing with -6 is way to fucking high isnt it? :X
But it works just for fast units, or for all, Will be better you explain it with champions not with the faster unit, for example with knights of the teutón order Will work or Will be works use hold teerain?
Some of the better players suggest using the staggered formation on a melee engage. Does it change your results when compared to the line formation? Also, the way patrolling units ignore each others' collision boxes gave me an idea: what if you set the units on no attack stance at first, and patrol in such a way that they start to turn around and stack on top of each other exactly inside the enemy troops? Does it mean that they do multiple the amount of damage per attack surface? I'll try this out.
Staggered is great depending on how your enemy is deployed. If they have a bunch of archers and you are charging in with infantry or cavalry, staggered spreads your units out early so they spend less time running around the enemy formation and more time attacking. When in doubt, go staggered into fights since it's usually very consistent. No attack stance can be useful if you are patrolling towards an enemy over farms or near buildings your units might attack, but it's not so good in a fight like the one in this video since most of the advantage I'm gaining is through the first couple units I kill upon entry.
This was my thought exactly, this looks more like a cavalry strategy. Infantry is so slow that while you're walking into the enemy belly you're getting hit many more times than the eagles would.
15:20 "Stand ground patrol, switch into aggressive stance, definitely is the most consistent and best option for taking - *Thinks "any fight", says:* Infantry engagements" xD
Great information. Can you update for DE and with archer battles? I am getting back into CS type maps and this information is very useful and helpful. Thank you
