I can't stop thinking about this!!! This easy/cheap test could put a stop to the virus not only in America, but in other countries as well. The test could be REQUIRED before entering school, the work place, stores, gyms, salons, restaurants, etc. It would be the key to keeping the economy opened. If the government won't get on board - what can regular citizens do to help? Fundraising? Go Fund Me campaigns? What can WE do to help?
Go to rapidtest.org (that Dr Mina mentioned at the end of the interview). Follow the instructions under the "Letters" tab to add your signature to letters to be sent to your state governor, senators & representatives. It was super quick and easy. Fingers crossed! (I can't believe we've wasted all this time when they literally could've produced millions of strips for schools and businesses to open).
We need to treat the $1 test as just a better replacement for taking someone's temperature. Effectively we are already doing a lot of (ineffective) rapid testing already! You can't fly, go to work in many places, etc, without verifying that you have no symptoms having your temperature taken. If your temperature exceeds the norm you are told to go home. This is of course minimally effective. Adding a fast $1 test to this would increase the effectiveness immensely.
@@AlphaGeekgirl Indeed! We've known I think since January that fever is not a good indicator. Meanwhile thermal cameras and IR thermometers, which in themselves are more of a "rapid test" for fever screening (less accurate at fever screening than a thermometer) are used, but these paper tests are not despite being far superior.
The former Commissioner of the FDA Dr. Scott Gottlieb would probably be right on board with this idea too. He's been advocacing better testing since around February 4th. He's a very switched-on guy. If he could help that would be fantastic.
Get active people! I also called my governor’s office and left a message regarding this viral load paper test after I heard the earlier medcram. I also have an email already penned to send to friends and family. Just wanted to hear this first.
Besides sending a letter to some elected officials as Michael suggested, please make sure everyone in the media, CNN, Washington Post, New York Times, HBO, etc. are all aware of this. This is exactly what America needs. RIGHT NOW.
Unfortunately, an hour talk... No one got the time to finish all in once. Even TED talk didn't go viral, it's just a double of length of an average RU-vid clip. It still unable to get market share here. No mention TikTok those 15s clip is the hit right now.
Incredibly important information we must help Dr. Mina educate our legislators , public health officials, and other healthcare leaders. Dr. Mina is the single most important scientist in our attempts to contain this virus. He must have a voice on a national scale!
00:00 Introduction 02:20 what is the biggest barrier to make rapid paper strip testing a reality on a large scale? 06:54 pros and cons cheap paper antigen versus PT-PCR tests? 12:18 The FDA issued a new emergency use authorization template for developing over the counter diagnostic tests. When non-prescription tests become available, is this a positive move related to this Dr. Mina's discussion? 18:07 is the FDA capable of making the leap from ideal specificity to practicality of testing? 24:00 So who is producing these tests? Names, brands and where to find them? 38:08 The NYU did a study of Abbott's ID NOW test. Compared to this, for the paper strip tests, what are the sensitivity and specificity figures? 47:09 Can the company sell the tests without FDA approval like they do with supplements and vitamins? 53:54 Can the quality of the spit (throat vs mouth) effect the results? Has from the throat a better chance? Is poor spit quality more responsible for false negatives in the high 30s rather than the test's sensitivity constraints? 56:11 How amenable are the "paper" tests to the massive up-scaling? How do you successfully get the message across to those who can implement the necessary changes to testing strategy both in the US and around the world? 58:23 Why are labs not required to report CT values with positive results if we know infectious thresholds?
There are other countries apart from the USA. My country would be happy to buy millions of these tests to test tourists (the tourists would happily pay the $1 to $5 fee).
Thank you *SO* much for this information... this is what operation Warp-speed should be all about and focusing on !!! Please make it happen, the Gov't should get out of the way of this and thin out the bureaucracy so we can have the tools in our hands to fight this pandemic. I think if the public understands that this is possible and available *TODAY* and it's super low-risk... we could have it very soon and get over this horrible thing sooner!
I've been sold on this since TWiV and beyond excited since MedCram picked it up. This is such an obvious and simple solution. My criticism is not towards the concept or the wonderful geniuses promoting it. But this particular video is a letdown. I already knew much of this. This video is not shareable in the sense that we need to inform and convince OTHERS on the idea. Can you redo something that can be shared to consicely and quickly to get the concept across and have people realize its value? Remember who we are dealing with (the general population). We ned you to make a quick, impactful commercial, even if it's 30 seconds (up to five minutes) remember attention span! KISS Keep it Simple. Let's get the word out to your average Facebook user. Something that Twitter will trend.
Thank you Kyle and Dr Mina. I really hope this groundbreaking testing idea gets the attention it deserves as it clearly has the ability to utterly transform how we manage this devastating global pandemic and save countless lives in the process.
If Amazon could/would get involved tests could quickly be made available everywhere. I like the idea mentioned previously comparing the test to a thermometer.
When I get a child with symptoms in my school clinic it would help tremendously to be able to communicate hard data to the parents and how long to stay at home (10days) and then test when returning to school.
Thanks for providing insight into the regulatory framework barriers. If this could be viewed as a public health tool, rather than as a diagnostic tool, you may be able to overcome these barriers. The problem may be that the public will view this as a diagnostic tool, so conflict may arise there unless there are clear guidelines as to its use. Face masks are, as you mentioned, a public health tool - I wonder if you could combine the two in some way as they are both made of paper. You could then sell them as face masks with a "screening tool" built in. If the mask tells you that you "may" have the virus then isolate, get PCR tested and diagnosed.
There is also another option. Export them to Mexico. I bet they will be happy. And then use grey imports to import them to the US. The FDA over regulations are disgusting.
John Zach scary. I don't want any test that will have PI standards which require it to stay within certain temperature ranges to travel through Mexico. The nature of these tests is that they are fragile in simple terms and must stay within carefully tested temperature ranges in order to work to meet performance requirements. Send the Mexico....they "cook"... then provide incredibly high rates of false negative due to assay deterioration. Any test for this virus will require a wicking action on the assay....even temperatures as low as 100 degrees can cause breaks between the cells that move the sample and buffer into the testing area. If the sample isn't wicked into the test area, you get a negative or invalid result. All tests for this virus and any new tests will use the same science and it's somewhat fragile to variations in the environment.
Dr., I think calling them a screening tool is brilliant! And it just might work. My state NC is part of the states onboard with this...we just need a lot more states! Let's do this!
this interview was so incredibly informative and reassuring! i went to rapidtest.org and followed the instructions to send letters to my state governor, senators and representatives to make this a reality.
If a smaller foreign government in Europe, Israel, Africa, Australia, ... were able to make this happen and show dramatic reductions in cases and deaths it would get the world on board. The gears of the US medical bureaucracy would turn. Lives would be saved and there would be a huge positive economic impact.
It seems to me that these rapid tests could secondarily, combined with other patient data, provide some very interesting data about both infectivity and immune response. Such information could also support various prophylaxis techniques outside the vaccine paradigm. What specific legal actions should be taken to remove the existing legal/bureaucratic impediments?
I am sorry.It is greed ,greed,and more greed,that keeps this from being used.Sad.This could be used immediately at restaurants while people are waiting for a table they get tested and are let in.Same at movie theaters.Sounds demeaning and awful,which it is ,BUT if it works and is used correctly ,we can start to get the economy back.This along with a Federal Jobs Program will help us keep our homes and not get evicted.H-E-L-P ! !Thank you so so much for everything you are doing.
Is there someone out there who create an animation of this discussion like Prager University does? More people would have the potential to watch and understand. I get it. But some won’t dedicate 45 minutes to an hour to get through medcrams excellent seminar. Remember we live in a soundbite age. Just trying to help.
The one thing I thought of: If this test is pervasively available, then people who test negative might insist they don't need a mask. Or, they might claim that they've taken the test when they haven't and go to school anyway. On the other hand, if even 90% of the population does "the right thing," we're still way ahead, I guess. I would love to hear Michael Mina comment on this.
I'm not sure you're thinking about this right. Anyone who may feel like they don't have to wear a mask isn't likely to change their mind with a + or - result. That said, if even a few people here and there decide that they'll isolate with a + dx, you've stopped at least dozens of extra infections. Multiply it by hundreds...the anti mask crowd is already out there without a mask. Not much is likely to change that at this point. But if we stop some ...that's progress.
@@AllYourBaseAreBelongToU5 of course you don't need to wear a mask if you're not sick. The problem with this disease is we don't always know if we're sick. But I get your point. Getting people to wear condoms to prevent HIV, even if they didn't think they had it, was important. Same here for now.
David Smith This is not a government “not believing in science” problem. We are supposed to have agencies, the FDA and the CDC, public health (Fauci) who advise the Gov. it’s these agencies and their arbitrary “perfection” fallacy that seems to be the problem. Regulators are the problem here and they are failing the public at every turn! These mandarins, who seem to have some sort of perverse, almost snobbish fetish of regulation for regulation sake. This amounts to criminal negligent in the extreme!! One might even suggest that the stubbornness, as well as the hubris this implies, might even come from the wish that some in these agencies have for the Trump admin to fail? I know that sounds a bit tin hat-ish. Whatever the cause, hubris, bureaucracy, the right hand not knowing what the felt is up to, so incompetence basically, or even political sabotage (extreme perhaps) the fact that these tests were technically viable months ago and are yet to be funded, mass-produced and greenlit by regulators, tells me that those that are in charge of the bodies who regular public health are in fact the problem. These ideologues should be ousted and the private sector should be allowed to solve this problem ASAP! Stop getting in the way for god sake!! Ironically, the free-market capitalists would have saved lives and the regulators and agencies are the ones killing people. It’s that simple! Why this has to come down to politics, is a disgrace!!!
I've been talking to EVERYONE I know about this. People with a connection to teacher unions, hospital E. R., National & international industry, politicians, someone with my state health department, someone working at the federal level with a mask campaign, another guy who does contact tracing. Ugh, they basically don't think there's anything they can do!!
00:00 Introduction 02:20 what is the biggest barrier to make rapid paper strip testing a reality on a large scale? 06:54 pros and cons cheap paper antigen versus PT-PCR tests? 12:18 The FDA issued a new emergency use authorization template for developing over the counter diagnostic tests. When non-prescription tests become available, is this a positive move related to this Dr. Mina's discussion? 18:07 is the FDA capable of making the leap from ideal specificity to practicality of testing? 24:00 So who is producing these tests? Names, brands and where to find them? 38:08 The NYU did a study of Abbott's ID NOW test. Compared to this, for the paper strip tests, what are the sensitivity and specificity figures? 47:09 Can the company sell the tests without FDA approval like they do with supplements and vitamins? 53:54 Can the quality of the spit (throat vs mouth) effect the results? Has from the throat a better chance? Is poor spit quality more responsible for false negatives in the high 30s rather than the test's sensitivity constraints? 56:11 How amenable are the "paper" tests to the massive up-scaling? How do you successfully get the message across to those who can implement the necessary changes to testing strategy both in the US and around the world? 58:23 Why are labs not required to report CT values with positive results if we know infectious thresholds?
Thank you for bringing such valuable information to light. Dr. Mina has some great ideas, we just need to get the folks in charge to buy into his line of thinking. Great information as always, thank you MedCram for showing us some light at the end of the tunnel....
Two things. First, why do these test strips need to be marketed as a medical product at all? They detect the presence of the antigen at or above a particular concentration. How they are used is at the discretion of the buyer. Sell them next to the pool water test strips. Second, I strongly dislike the suggestion at 26m that the government seize the IP of these small startup companies - compensation not withstanding. The suggestion that the government can do this better than an entrepreneur is highly questionable. It's easy to proclaim from afar that someone else's property should be taken from them. There are far too many elites in gated communities right now who have this idea. The track record of the government at the state and federal level in this regard is not at all encouraging. I refer you to the Milton Friedman series Free to Choose for a review of specific examples in detail. Otherwise I celebrate your work in this field and will write to my representatives asking to get the government out of the way so the free market can flourish.
The reason for marketing them as a medical product is that medical (public safety) decisions are being based on the result. Therefore the quality of the result must be assured to a certain published Standard. Selling such a test is fine as a "detector" but it would be hard to argue that the result of the test is not going to be used to make public health decisions.
Although, I'm not an eloquent writer, I've sent messages to government officials, The Whitehouse, and even newsmedia about Dr Mina. I thinks it's the single most brilliant idea I've heard since this pandemic started. I don't expect my effort to yield results since there's so much red tape and politics are involved. After what I've seen, I think the government is rarely the best way to get anything done.
Would calling it screening instead of testing make a difference? Was approval required for temperature screening? If you have a temp you are symptomatic. We're looking for asymptomatic. If you get a positive, get a regular test and quarantine I'm convinced. What can one do as a citizen to help make this happen?
Nevermind, I found it. You have to click on "show more" under the description and above the comments. The links to "Get Involved" are there. I grow impatient. It's time for us to take this bull by the horns and do it ourselves.
@@RichaRat [UPDATE] Reloading on a smaller screen without full-screen view on did the trick; I can now see the "Show More" section. [OLD] Would you believe I'm not even seeing a link to "Show More", in a browser window? When the video is over I will refresh the page, but that smells like YT Shenanigans.
I have sent a letter to my Congressman, both Louisiana US Senators, and the Louisiana Governor. We'll see what happens. I saw a story this morning, Aug 6, about rapid testing being done in Florida. The journalist said the drawback of the rapid test was not as sensitive as PCR. They did not explain any of the underlying science that is explained here. I see journalist rushing stories to air or publication without doing any research, which leaves the rest of the story untold.
I have received a reply from my Congressman. The reply talks about economic stimulus payments, with no reference to the content of my letter. Surely an automated form letter. I just as well plead the case to a fence post.
We need Dr. Mina's rapid tests rolled out to every household from yesterday! If we can have rapid tests at home for other conditions, then there is no reason why we can't do this for this rampant debilitating virus. Especially in the workforce where employees can be tested every day, and for schools and for individuals. It would very much control the spread of this belligerent pathogen.
what about lock down and mandatory masking in public places? Can restaurants and bars open if all the customers can show their test result that day? But if people stop using their masks what to do about communities which have a low levels of actual testing ?
I think the best regulations to push them under is the same one that home testing of blood sugar for diabetics follows. They could have an app that you record daily positive, negative or didn't test. The app could upload to the regulatory (or stats recording) authority. Maybe the app also records how many tests you used and you would need to show that you have used all the tests you were issued before you get another set. Maybe workplaces could require you to show your app before you start work or test there. All of these things are simple, cheap and a good way to get a country moving again.
On the surface, beyond the public health impact, this appears an option to consider to get children back in schools and open up more elements of our economy. If the espresso model becomes the only option can we leverage retail pharmacies and other locales to provide convenient access and drive down cost? As always a beneficial and informative discussion.
Revising the house-fire anology: We've been pointing an inadequate hose (expensive molecular tests) at all areas of the house fire, but mostly those areas that have already burned. In the obvious hot spots, the volume of the current hose is under-powered anyway. In order to actually extinguish the growing fires, we need to stop worrying if we are aware of (measuring/reporting) the process, and blindly sprinkle a massive volume of magical paper confetti (rapid paper antigen tests) that will in turn empower each individual ember to put itself out in isolation. We're asking the fire department (i.e. government) to do this without certifying or validating it, which is unprecedented in modern times.
Thanks! Excellent points. Public health tools should be deployed to serve public health. Affordable home test kits are practical and effective ways to go, like thermometers or home ovulation tests.
I won't take it if it is automatically connected to Big Brother. I want it like a pregnancy test. Nobody's business but my own, but will let me know if I need to go see my doctor.
That's what can happen with a livestream, and relying on multiple internet connections. When a video is pre-recorded, it can be edited, re-recorded and even dubbed (like what you are probably used to with most other videos), but with live-to-air it's not possible.
excellent info and ideas - hopefully they will gain traction going forward. from the beginning, we have needed more communication between public, private, and academics. thank you!
His voice cuts out at key moments. What did he mean to say during these moments? Anyone have a guess at least? Is it all in the transcript or does the transcript miss some words? BTW this regulatory intransigence reminds me of the problems that were seen in the beginning of the HIV/AIDS crisis where people are dying because of regulations and the slothfulness of officials [among other reasons with HIV --prejudice was part of the problem there]. Fixing this slowdown will save thousands if not millions of lives.
Test more people without using more tests.....10 asymptomatic patients that have had exposure but are not showing any symptoms can all contribute specimen to a single test....if that one test is negative then ALL are negative. Just saved 9 tests along with 9 cycles on the analyzer. If that group test shows positive, they all individually test. It can work. It could save hundreds even thousands of tests in a community daily and dramatically reduce result time.
A change in mindset is required to get this off the ground. Normally any diagnosis is required for a well defined ailment which has a protocol. Ailments & infrastructure is designed with the assumption that ailment is within a minority of population. In this case the need for testing is for 100% of the population. There is also no credit given to us as individuals who have lost their career and are fearful of falling ill. We don't need ba government to chase or trace us for testing. If testing can be non invasive & cheap then every working individual would test every time they leave home or return. The cost is based on return on investment since we have experienced economic destruction. We don't need politics or bureaucracy to determine how the economy can recover.
Falling into the cracks is what is happening here. Public Health has to be granted powers to distribute tests like those being discussed when emergencies occur.
This could be an absolute game changer and could mean we could get back to a more normal way of life. Unfortunately, aside from the regulatory approval, i just can’t see governments giving up control of testing. Perhaps the middle ground could be that they target hotspots with mass rollout of the rapid tests.
After some research my opinion has changed. If this isn't a diagnostic test and it can be used in numbers that are shockingly high, it will help for sure. Schools, church, malls, sports....home! If positive, reflex to PCR or antigen. Definitely was skeptical but not so much now after seeing some facts.
I was able to get a standard nose swab test today just hours after watching this live stream. Only one car in front of me. (a couple of days ago there were about 60 cars in line) The on-line results should come back in 24-48 hours. This went so smooth... it makes me nervous.
I think this is a great idea, a simple test to show if you are infectious or not, if infected stay home, in not go about your business. I think the implementation is wrong. Don't rely on people to give the test at home but at the destination. Example, going to work, the test is given at work. The employer has tremendous incentive to have his employees at work. They will be sure the test is given and the results used immediately. If an an employee is infected, send the home. That is great in two ways, the work place is 98 to 100 percent virus free and the employee can call his doctor early in the infection and get help immediately. It would work anywhere people need to be. Airlines could give the test everyone boarding the plane, those who have the infection could not board. No masks, no distancing, a virus free flight. Who do we talk to, to get this done?
talking politically, I think democrat politicians would be less interested in this common sense solution. It would release the public from government imposed lockdown and mask mandates.
@@Steve-Richter I think you are right. I am trying to contact some republican representatives who should know people who could help. Would you try the same? If enough of us try we should find someone who will listen. Thanks again, have a great day.
@@MimisTreasureCottage Hi Mimi, That is absolutely right and I agree. This approach, having businesses and others give the tests is not intended to keep you from taking the test. Thanks again for your response.
I think many countries have similar or worst issues like this, like Mexico, the red tape there is worst as it is more and more a socialist country than the US.
I kept hoping someone would ask if any foreign governments have shown any interest in this testing method. Surely there is some country that could implement a system like this without all the bureaucratic hurdles. I don't think the U.S. is interested because there is not enough money-making potential.
maybe the urgency is not there anymore since so few new virus cases are being detected in developed nations. Middle class populations in the US do not have many case either.
To make it simple, trust that people will be willing and would want to self report. All you would need to do is create a website and have a hotline. I’m pretty certain every state has had to create a marketplace under the Affordable Care Act that was accessible to everyone in a state online, by phone, and at in-person centers - the infrastructure already exists in some form. I know from experience it exists in that exact form in MA. Connect these tests through that system and include in the package a paper slip with instructions. I’ve done studies with the MA department of health and they could have this set up by September. Bring over covid test site state line employees and contract tracers. Everyone who self reports positive gives their zip code and like via ACA Marketplaces can be connected to either emergency services, primary care options, clinic options based on symptoms/services needed/ tied to location. You can also then get federal data collection of positive based on location via the same reporting network that already existence in every state in some form with the Affordable Care Act. We’ve done this before and we can do this again. I can break this down even further but this is just a five minute brainstorm here haha 😆 oh and get some funding for USPS by partnering with them to deliver packages of tests to every household. ANOTHER OPTION: It might not be possible to prevent this virus from spreading. We could start looking at Sweden and else where and we might see that the virus burns itself out faster if we just try to wear masks and wash our hands.
This is a great example of the creative thinking that goes against prevailing reason, but which can get us out of the Covid-19 situation we are in. And get the economy back on track. It is really painful to see the suppression of an idea, almost like an accident taking place in slow motion. I can think of many, many situations that could be improved by using this idea of effectively using a tool that is appropriate. For example, the issue of viral spread amongst the wildland firefighters in the West right now. Please, please, let us unleash American creativity and not put it in the corner.
It would be helpful to add exposure point, days, and duration of symptoms to the Ct graph. It is widely reported that the infective period starts before symptoms appear; by adding these data points it would be clearer why extremely high accuracy is of less importance than identifying patients who can infect others. Clearly RT-PCR is of little clinical value in isolation, especially if the Ct score is not provided simultaneously. The crux of the problem seems to be the inability to appreciate that more precision doesn't equal better public health. The public, press and many in the medical community think in terms of individuals, not the massive groups those individuals represent; too much "I" and "me", too little "us". Perhaps Dr Mina would find a more receptive policy environment in India where these tests could be rapidly and cheaply made, widely deployed by the government, and then, after success there, brought back to the US. Sounds crazy, but that might be faster than churning through our bureaucracy.
I know Trump takes a hit on this. He should have the interest level to be watching medcram and even TWIV so that he gets good info and make informed decisions. But also, if the media and public was not so hostile, Trump and other admin officials would be interacting more with informed individuals and experts. There would be more opportunities to ask/inform Trump about the benefits of these cheap, fast and effective paper covid tests.
He’s not clever enough or focused enough on detail to compose a coherent thought on the science of Covid. He has no interest in it beyond self-interest. The fact that this escapes so many in his “base” beggars credulity. Neither is his opponent unfortunately.
Steve Richter Ironically if Trump was opposed to this it would be more likely to be accepted. Having said that, they need this to be terrifying so they can control the week minded.
I had watched the abbreviated version of this interview on Saturday. When I went back to re-watch some of it today I found that youtube had taken the video down for violating community standards.
Yes, apparently RU-vid's algorithm or something has temporarily removed this video This has happened a handful of times before and upon further review, our videos are always reinstated. In the meantime, we've uploaded the video to our website: www.medcram.com/courses/antigen-highlights
Off topic, does anyone know where I can find 2019 u.s death statistics, not estimations but hard data? I can't find it anywhere. I found it up until march 2019, then nothing after that.
Where did you get that from. They are weeks away from releasing a LFT strip. They do also have a test that uses mass spectrometers that will be faster than PCR, but that is not their main product
It would be trivial to have a software component to tests that report all results. The bigger problem is the "tinfoil hat" approach to life that so many people subscribe to against data capture when it helps their fellow human. If the US can't get over that, the complexity of gathering the data is immaterial.
99.9% of 1 million is smaller than 50% of 100 million. Would love to know what the modeling would show if testing was daily. How drastic the transmission rate would decreased because testing would have usable timely results. Im a moron and ive been saying this for months. We need tools that create useful results not just data.
The way described, the CT values need to be used to figure out who needs to quarantine. They need to be published. There is way too much secrecy that surrounds this virus, most in the name of regulations that are standing in the way of our ability of coming out of this virus, and resuming our lives in as normal way as possible.
