Keep making the "Understanding [Insert Denomination] series. As a Catholic, it is so interesting to learn more about other denominations, and I appreciate how unbiased you are!
Glad you find it interesting! I've also become interested with all the denominations of Christianity, because well it is interesting and there's always something new to learn haha, God bless! 😂❤
I'm Orthodox, and I've seen this view both espoused as dogma and disparaged as heresy by various Orthodox Christians in discussion forums. Three Orthodox, four opinions!
He did a terrible job describing it. The early church believed Hell was actually Gods love in the form of fire. That no matter what you did, God still loves you and to some like Hitler, it is painful to know you can still be forgiven given the millions of people you killed. Also, Orthodox does not believe in some of the first statements. Salvation isnt a heaven or hell thing either, its a delivered, healed, saved from the powr and effects of sin. In all 100 times salvation is used... There is no mention of the afterlife in the term. Also, your faith doesnt save your from sin, but Jesus faith in you in which you had no part of. WHILE YOU WERE A SINNER, God brought you into his son. Most of this stuff will sound absolutely blasphemous to the western Christianity but to those who are hungry to hear more the actual Good news, look up John Crowder on RU-vid. Let the heretic comments roll out now 😢(I feel sorry for the american church)
As a Catholic, I appreciate what you said about works. The parable of the talents is a good example, it’s not the amount of works that saves us, but what we do with the gift of faith/ grace that God has given us.
Canon 32. "If anyone says that the good works of the one justified are in such manner the gifts of God that they are not also the good merits of him justified; or that the one justified by the good works that he performs by the grace of God and the merit of Jesus Christ (of whom one is a living member), the justified does not truly merit an increase of grace, and eternal life, provided that one dies in the state of grace, the attainment of this eternal life, as well as an increase in glory, let him be anathema."
Here's the support for my statement: Ephesians 2:8-10 ESV For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast. [10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. Romans 6:1-2 ESV What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? [2] By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?
@@GogglesOstrich “You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. And similarly, was not Rahab the prostitute also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by another way? For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.” James 2:24-26
But you cant, you never can. Thats why God brought you into union with himself. Orthodoxy is about our union with God not on my behalf but his. You didnt give birth to yourself. My words, actions, nothing I do changes the reality of Christ in me. Here come the heretic comments... 😢😢
@@prins_af_danmark Well at least you got off lightly for most of your life. Hopefully you can put yesterday behind you, and walk towards something more profitable to your soul, specifically the Son of God.
As a catholic, quick correction. Sin(mortal) does not kill faith (dogmatic faith), but charity. It would kill "formed faith", that is faith working through love.
Why don’t you keep going, “ it results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace , that is the state of grace.”(catechism of the Catholic Church par 1861). So when you commit mortal sin you lose your salvation, then have to gain it back through the second plank of penance. It’s a whole work based system that brings no peace. That’s why there was the reformation.
@@Coteincdrok. Just be honest though and admit that mortal sin ends justifying grace. That’s why it is called mortal! And then admit you gain back your salvation through the sacrament of penance but then you are still under temporal punishment and that if you die in a state of mortal sin then you go to hell. That’s why purgatory exists. Because without purgatory, it’s pretty much an impossible sell to be a Romanist
Technically speaking it's much more like execution than murder, as it's legal, systematic, delivered by the authorities, and the person being killed is not being viewed as a victim.
@@ÍtaloResiåYou shouldn't pull verses out of context. Read Exodus 17:8-14, Numbers 14:41-45, Judges 3:12-14; 6:3, and 6:33-35. The Amalekites had made an enemy of God. They also had a history of child sacrifice(Deuteronomy 12:31) to false gods. This was divine justice and retribution, not genocide as some think. God is all-loving but He is also all-just and will wipe out those who make enemies of Him and will protect His people. The wages of Sin is death(Romans 6:23) after all.
I'm favoured only God knows how much I praise Him, $230k every 4weeks! I now have a big mansion and can now afford anything and also support God’s work and the church.😊
Only God knows how much grateful i am. After so much struggles I now own a new house and my family is happy once again everything is finally falling into place!!
I remember giving her my first saved up $20000 and she opened a brokerage account with it for me, it turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to me.
I have to say that the Orthodox view of salvation was a bit inaccurately described. In the Orthodox Church we have no "legal" understanding of sin and hell as is the case, for example, in the Catholic Church (no "purgatory" or "indulgence"). It should be added to theosis that we believe that in the end we only be saved by God's grace. I also have to say that it sounded very biased and didn't go into enough details, such as the meaning of the sacraments.
Oriental Orthodox here. Orthodoxy is purely the fullness of our faith as founded by the Apostles. And I do have assurance of my salvation so far as I continue in the faith, in which the Lord’s mercies will endure and sustain me forever. Thus, we don’t work for salvation but because of our ongoing salvific process. Remember fellow believers, faith is more than just intellectual-it’s experiential. Attend a Divine Liturgy and you will experience Christ as more than just words on a page. Amen.
I'm Armenian but don't know too much about the topic. Dislike the legalistic definitions of what was said in most of this video. Where can I find more information about the oriental, and more specifically, the Armenian point of view?
@@ApostolicStorm Read GOD'S *pure words* in the Bible and you'll never need. Cachetisms, vatican I or II, all fallen men trying to redefine GOD'S word. The great harlot's end has been prophecied - in the bible. Come out from her!
@@Dogloki I'm not making him stumble - I am just pointing out that STRAIGHT is the gate, NARROW is the Way and few there be that find it. Praising God is fine, but it won't achieve much if it's false. Cain praised God by giving fruit and veges - God rejected him. He also clearly said, "If Cain does right, will he not be accepted?" Clearly then, correct doctrine is key to salvation, and you won't get a scrap of correct doctrine in the Lutheran church, or in fact in most churches - because they're all trinitarian. They make Jesus God, and in doing so they remove the mediator BETWEEN God and man, the MAN Christ Jesus. Spending your life learning Lutheranism is no different to spending your life learning Catholicism....or any other 'ism'.... all are 'another way', and Jesus called all who try to come by another way "thieves and robbers." So instead of finding fault with what I have said, why not preach the same Gospel that Jesus preached? He didn't mention Luther.
@@randnew1 Not quite... Mortal sin does not kill faith. It kills the life of Grace. Faith (itself a free gift from God) remains to assist the individual to come to repentance and thus reignite that life of Grace. Also with the sacrament of confession - the forgiveness of sin is not dependent on completing the penance given. The penance is only there to assist the healing of the temporal damage done by the sin
as an Orthodox would like to quote Saint Isaac the Syrian: "Those tormented in Gehenna are struck by the scourge of love, says Saint Isaac. And how bitter and cruel is this torment of love! For those who have felt that they have sinned against love suffer a torment that is stronger than any other terrible torment; the sorrow that strikes the heart for the sin against love is more painful than any possible punishment. It is inappropriate for a person to think that sinners in Gehenna are deprived of God's love. Love... is given to everyone in general. But love by its power acts in two ways: it torments sinners, as here it happens that a friend suffers from a friend, and it gladdens those who have fulfilled their duty (to God). And so, in my opinion, such is the torment of Gehenna - it is repentance"
Like Hitler realizing he is forgiven from killed millions of jews... The eternal lake of fire is Gods love. To some, like hitler, it is hell. We humans call for judgement, justice, punishment. But Jesus called for turning the cheek, loving your enemy, and forgiving. His love will always be offensive to the religious.
@TimC1517 ---> True that. Baptists actually read their Bibles. Lutherans listen to the Pastor once a week read sections of the Bible from the lectern. They trust in an "infant baptism" (which they do not remember, nor did they ask for) to take away the Augustinian myth of "Birth Sin". They live just like the worldlings do 6 days a week. {[ I know whereof I speak: I married into a W.E.L.S. family. Ugh! Spiritually Deadsville. Thankfully my 3 kids all asked to be baptized in my Baptist Church in the mid to later teen years. My son is now a Baptist Pastor. Both daughters are married to Baptist Deacons and they read their Bibles during the week at home.]}
@@gusloader123 This is a very uncharitable thing to say and rather nasty. I grew up in an LCMS church and I am still a Lutheran, but I attended Baptist churches for years and met some of the most amazing Christians there. I agree one of the best things about Baptists is their focus on the Word. But, sorry as I am to hear your experience with Lutherans was bad, that has never been my experience with any Lutheran church as I have attended.
@@TimC1517 --- They are trusting in "infant baptism" to save them and agreeing with the catechism. There is never a mention of being 'Born again" or getting saved from sin, repenting and believing in Jesus Christ all week long, not just 1 and 1/2 hours on a Sunday.
The Catholic perspective is mostly accurate, but it needs some clarification: We believe we are saved by grace, through faith that works through love (Galatians 5:6) - a faith that is living and active, rather than a faith that just acknowledges belief. The Church teaches that we are not justified by faith alone, as a passive, once-and-done event. But our faith must bear fruit, and our cooperation with grace, seen through our works, keeps us in communion with God (James 2:24). We don’t believe faith can be “killed” by mortal sin. Instead, mortal sin severs our relationship with God by an act of the will, rejecting grace. When we sin mortally, the virtue of charity, the "soul" of faith, is lost, which is why confession and penance are needed to restore that communion. As for purgatory, it is not about “extra sanctification” in the sense that it’s something that gets added. Purgatory is the final purification of the soul from any remaining attachment to sin, making us ready to enter the fullness of God’s presence in heaven. This is not a second chance for salvation, it's the final step for those who die in grace but are not yet perfectly purified. And lastly, while the Church does teach that God ordinarily dispenses grace through the sacraments, we believe the Church is the sole custodian of the fullness of truth and grace. So, just because God can work outside of visible structures of the Church in ways known to Him alone, this doesn't mean salvation is ordinarily accessible outside the Church.
@@arnkriegbaum Jesus' words in Luke 12:41-48 is a great example. Also if you look at the Old Testament, there is a overwhelming recurring theme - God requires purification before one can enter his presence. Of course if one's belief simply rests on "accepting Jesus into your heart/Jesus did everything so I can do nothing" then all of this sounds like nonsense.
The first paragraph is actually very close to what Luther taught. He said that we are saved by faith alone, BUT we are not saved by a faith which is alone, that is, a faith which does not work through love. The works do not save us, but they are a necessary accompaniment to saving faith. Here is a quote from his preface to the book of Romans: "O it is a living, busy, active, mighty thing, this faith. It is impossible for it not to be doing good works incessantly. It does not ask whether good works are to be done, but before the question is asked, it has already done them, and is constantly doing them. Whoever does not do such works, however, is an unbeliever. He gropes and looks around for faith and good works, but knows neither what faith is nor what good works are. Yet he talks and talks, with many words, about faith and good works."
Redeemed Zoomer portrays Eastern Christian denominations (like Christian Orthodox) as having a less complex theology and being more mystical when the theology is just different. Not just this video, but in his channel. More broadly, there is a habit of Westerners percieving Eastern beliefs (whether Eastern Europe, the Middle East, India, or East Asia) as less rational. In reality, Eastern concepts are just different and Eastern reasoning tends to be more lateral and holistic and less linear and reductionist.
It was a primer of Christian denominations, not everything else that is non-Christian.
4 дня назад
Eastern Orthodox believers will specifically state that they dislike the excessive rationalism of the west, they not only embrace mysticism but theologically ground their beliefs due to the holy spirit not preceding from the son in the same way he does the father.
By just theology alone within the Catholic sphere, I know that the doctrine of Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus (Outside the Church, there is no salvation) should ring out. But looking at your videos, I get a sense of understanding for Protestants and Orthodox Christians too. They, like the SSPX and Sedevacantist Catholics (both of whom I sympathize and even align myself to often times) are just Christians who are trying to study the Church Fathers, the Bible, and the Traditions they have maintained. In my heart of hearts, I know that we all seek unity once again, but unity can only come through dialogue. And this very concise description of the different church groups' views on Faith and Eternal Salvation is one of the many steps we can take to become whole and united again, just as it was written in the Epistle of St. Paul to the Ephesians 4:5, that we will one day be united in "One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism". For without the Christian Church, we lose Christ. We lose Christ, we lose our salvation. +Ave Christus Rex+ (All Hail Christ the King) God bless!
I think it's the opposite, a lot of times heresy comes when we try to overcomplicate the simplicity of the Gospel. 2 corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
@@somemedic8482 Church history has witnessed both. But it's definitely dependent upon the type of heresy. If it's a soteriological heresy, than the tendency may be to overcomplicate the Gospel. If it's a trinitarian heresy, the tendency is often to oversimplify who God is as revealed throughout OT and NT. Redeemzed Zoomer even mentions Oneness Pentecostals at 11:30 who believe that Trinity is overly complicated, emphasize that the word "Trinity" itself is not even found in scripture, and that the doctrine is the tradition of men. They deny the Trinity in exchange for modalism, claiming Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are merely three personal manifestations of one being, one personal God.
Great summary! ❤ Miss the apostolic/new apostolic faith of many millions of Christians. 1. water baptism. 2. sealing/spirit, baptism by a living apostle 3. Holy Communion and fellowship with Jesus in divine services and forgiveness of sins 4. as a Christian in a daily endeavour to become more like Jesus. 5. Jesus' return and first resurrection for all those who belong to his bride ❤
🎃You should make a video about if Christians should celebrate Halloween!🎃 I know I keep saying this but I really think It would make an interesting video.(especially since it's almost the 31st)
_“One person judges one day to be more important than another day. Someone else judges every day to be the same. Let each one be fully convinced in his own mind.”_ Romans 14:5
I think as long as you're not praising/ worshiping hell or demons it's a fine. Having kids dressed up in Spider-Man costumes asking for candy is not a bad/ evil thing. Just my opinion
It’s really hard to pin down Baptist views on anything due to the very nature and definition of Baptists. That being said, you did a good job of not over generalizing and explaining the standard views while recognizing there is nuance and distinction within our camp.
I would consider myself Baptist just because I mostly agree with their points, that said I didn’t agree with everything that other baptists believe in as showcases in the video.
There is a lot of variance. But there are Baptist distinctives that define the Baptist movement Bible- sole authority of Faith & Practice (big one) Regenerated Church membership (another divider) Autonomy of the local church (it's not a denomination 😀) Priesthood of the believer (nothing between me & God). Soul Liberty (I answer to Jesus, not ecclesiatical authority) Immersion & Lord's supper (only 2 ordinances, NOT sacraments) Separation of church & state (our contribution to Western civilization!)
Catholic here, I think you're pretty much spot on with our beliefs. The only way I would say it better myself is if I said that we're saved by grace and faith is the effect of that Grace, so when you say the faith can die in you, we would say the grace dies in you, the sanctifying Grace. Two kinds of Grace, sanctifying Grace, which is that indwelling of the Holy Spirit and actual Grace which doesn't mean actual as in like " actually" but as in pertaining to Acts, as in a special act of Grace given you to help you respond to God's invitation. Invitation. It can also be sort of things like profound moments of communion with God when you feel God's finger on your heart. Various saints have referred to this as spiritual candies or spiritual kisses, basically as moments of Grace to strengthen the faithful and convert the wicked.
Happy Reformation Week! Reformation is the day that we Lutherans celebrate, among other things, that we don't have to do anything to go to heaven. You don't need to worry about if you had enough faith when you accepted God, or if you've done enough to get out of Purgatory, or if you are part of the elect. Edit: Just to clarify, I don't mean to start inter-denominational debates with this comment, but rather to remind other Lutherans of the grace we received.
While I’m more Baptist leaning I’ve started going to a Presbyterian church for the similarities between the two, the history, and the high church setting. Also your videos, ancient paths videos, and truth units videos have been my biggest influences lately when it comes to historic Christianity and my decision to go to a Presbyterian Church today. Still on the fence about infant baptism but I do plan on going back next Sunday. Keep up the hard work Redeemed 🙏
paedobaptism is a doctrine that ive been back and forth on for maybe five years also. im in a baptist church where a lot of the elders and congregation are reformed and trained in theology so whenever i hear wilson or r. scott clark on the subject i always ask someone from my church for a response. maybe i will die being on the fence still 🤣
Thank you for saying they are All Christians! The Church is One in the sense that All the baptised form the One Mystical Body of Christ. When we pray for Christian Unity, we pray for the peoples of the Churches who are divided. Unity will come as promised by Jesus in His Message of "True Life in God".
I don't believe catholics generally are Christians because of heresys such as purgatory, the distinction between venial and mortal sin, the necessity of penance etc. To believe the entirety of catholic teaching is incompatible with biblical Christianity
Except he said oneness pentecostals are heretical and not Christian. Weird to callout one denemonanation for being "heretical" when obviously all these denominations are heretical when in comparison to each other. for example once saved always saved is a big one
It's funny, because men in their own wisdom will think themselves smarter than God. God truly revealed His Oneness in ALL of the Bible and dwelt FULLY in Jesus. Jesus is God. (Colossians 2:9). They proclaim Truth to be wrong and will team up with each other to deny Oneness, forgetting ALL they quarreled about.
@@dakotabowman13 great scripture to point out. Certainly seems that way to me brother. It is weird to me that the wholeee Bible is all about oneness & unity in all things (God included) yet the God it’s all about would be 3? God help us all
As someone who follows the Wesleyan Molinist belief system I hold the view that salvation stems from Gods grace that empowers all individuals to decide whether to accept or reject faith, in Jesus universally. An integral part of this belief is Gods foreknowledge about each persons choices based on His knowledge and how He directs His providence accordingly. Human free will and divine grace work together in concert to provide salvation to everyone without certainty until they actively choose to embrace it. The journey of justification through faith brings about a transformation, in believers. Initiates the process of sanctification guided by the Holy Spirit. Embarking on a path of salvation involves a dedication and an ongoing venture, through life where believers strive for holiness with the guidance of God while honoring human free will.
I want to compliment you on the lutheran segment. Usually, when you talked about Lutheranism in the past, it was always a bit simplified, where what you said is technically correct, but the details are important to understanding it completely. "Baptism saves" can be misunderstood, if it's not explained what we mean by it :D Namely, that baptism is a means of grace through which god creates faith in us. And that it's not specifically the water of baptism, or the human work of baptism that saves. And that, of course, other means of grace can create faith too. Or that we believe in "single predestination" can also be misunderstood, when it's not also explained that we also agree with Arminian in the fact, that if a human is lost, it's because he resisted it, it's his own fault, and god isn't just "passing them over". If you're saved, it's because you were predestined, if you're lost it's because of your own free will. Monergistic Salvation, Synergistic Damnation. So, thanks for taking the time and effort of explaining this in a bit more detail here. I also like that you wrote about Lutherans simply taking what's written in the Bible and going with it, not trying to invent these logical constructs or rationalizations to explain stuff away, just because our human mind can't comprehend it :D
12:57 This is a common belief, but as is a pattern in Orthodoxy, is not an established dogma. It also isn't a dogma that it is *not* true. It is a possibility, and we wont know until we get there, or we might not know, we'll only know when we get there, or we might not...
When I became a Christian at around 20, I fell in with some Presbyterians who were very Calvinist. I had been an atheist and pretty wild delinquent, which led to deep despair. But the Calvinist message, which I only very briefly held before hearing other alternatives from Christians in my family, somehow sent me into an even deeper despair. I was literally told God controls the demons and planned ahead the Holocaust and every rape. Eventually I became Catholic, which I've mostly been for the past two decades and am happy with. But I still bristle whenever I heard the hardcore double-predestination talk from Calvinists. I know there was a time when St Augustine's similar views on reprobation before consideration of demerits was common, but the Jansenist Catholics were, thankfully declared heretics after Council of Trent for their views that were similar to Augustine/Calvin on this. All that to say, I really can't seen how this is an attractive or even workable worldview that people can walk around with and sleep at night with.... thinking that God creates billions of conscious beings for the sole purpose of torturing. It gives me an image of a kid torturing ants with a magnifying glass. God forgive me if I'm wrong and just can't see why, but of all the ideas Christian or non-Christian, I think Calvinism seems like the most evil. Islam is a pretty identical fatalist belief, I guess. Thankfully, it's clearly morally contradictory (the proposition that God is good yet plans all evil and suffering, including that of a Massa Damnata), unless you have a totally nominalist/voluntarist who believes "good" is just whatever God says/does. Considering what you said about babies having souls in the womb, that makes it even worse, since only like 15% of conceived embryos survive implantation and pregnancy to even be born and get saved. Unless 100% of those embryos are elect and saved through special means, the picture just keeps getting darker. Overall great video though. I think you have a good analytic mind. But I do think the systematic theology can make some lose the forest for the trees on what a good God full of mercy and love actually would be like.
I'm not a Calvinsist, so not defending that per se, but your personal 'feelings' or visceral response to a teaching, thought or belief don't determine it's veracity.
@@porcine83 Sure, that's why I also said it's morally contradictory. If someone says, "Bob is a great guy, but he likes to kidnap hitchhikers and torture them in his basement," that would create a negative emotion in me, sure, but it would also be a clear contradiction based on any reasonable conception of the good, so I wouldn't believe that. As I said, it's possible for those who hold a nominalist/voluntarist position to say that "good" is just whatever God says it is, so he can make what we view as evil actually good. But I reject that position, and not just for emotional reasons. I also talked about my personal journey, which is a usually what happens first, we try on different lenses to make sense of reality, and ones that make the world make sense, we continue to wear. The world made no sense with Calvinist lenses, so I took them off. I am pursuing truth, and I would follow my most honest attempt at identifying it, even if it made me an atheist (which it did for a bit) or a rastafarian. What else can I judge on but my reason and conscience (which God gives us to identify the true and the good)? Catholic makes the most sense to me, so I've been in the Church for 20 years. But if it ceased to for some reason, I would leave. That would take a lot, but I'm not here for blind faith.
Hey RZ, just going to add that in Pentecostalism the dogma of needing to speak in tongues is different. Maybe its the influence of other denominations but there is a growing group that agree that Tongues is a gift but not necessarily everyone needs to speak it.
that is how my church believes, tongues and other spiritual abilities are not a requirement, and we believe the spirit is working through you for the benefit of either someone specific, or the entire congregation. my church may be different because it's a southern church of god. so loud sermons and people feeling the spirit and speaking in tongues, dancing, jumping, laughing, shouting, and even doing things they're physically incapable of doing bc the spirit is working through them. we personally don't believe that 3rd work of grace, we believe we all fall short of the glory of god, and we never actually stop sinning because we are imperfect humans. this is just what my church believes, personally. not saying anybody has to be this way.
@@ahhgeez I'm leery of the people who are jumping around, shouting, etc. Seems to go against Paul's instruction that everything should be done in an orderly way in 1 Corinthians 14. I've also seen where people get so desperate to be included as one of the insiders among a group, they will hype themselves up into thinking the Holy Spirit is speaking through them, when if fact they're just drunk on the feeling of raw emotions. Large group "revivals" are notorious for whipping people into a frenzy, then when they go home the dopamine and adrenaline fade out and they realize life is still as boring and drudgery like it was before, so they keep on trying to seek the next spiritual high. I've also yet to see a confirmed "healing" session where something verifiably medically wrong with someone is checked afterward and found to be truly healed in the moment. Shysters like Benny Hinn are well known for their so-called "faith healing" for profit. I live near James River Church where a pastor claimed that a woman had some toes regrown at one of their services, but there was no documentation of her condition before the service, and once they were called out to provide some evidence, they hushed it up to "protect the woman from scrutiny"... even though THEY were the ones who first went the to media to discuss it. Makes Christians look like lunatics when people do this kind of silly stuff.
As someone who grew up ECLA, then became Southern Baptist as teenager, who is now a Calvinist/Baptist, I can say I rather enjoyed this quite thoroughly. The Lutheran, Baptist, and Calvinists parts were right on. Cannot speak for other denominations, but as someone who has studied and is working on his masters in ministry in seminary right now, I can say the others sound true to what I have learned thus far. Great job.
As a former baptist now catholic I need to recognize the love you manifest by being so honest. You just exposed the catholic view clearly without debating, not because you agree but simply because that is not the point of this video. That really encourages me.
Some "big word" context on salvation for those who find it helpful: Justification: One *is saved* from the penalty of sin [declared not guilty] Sanctification: One *is being saved* from the power of sin [being continuously conformed to the likeness of Christ] Glorification: One *will be saved* from the presence of sin [living eternally in the presence of God where sin does not exist] These are sometimes referred to as the tenses of salvation.
As a 15th century merchant i can tell you all ya gotta do is give the local bishop a few sheckles of gold and maybe a bit of silver and you're practically a saint. 👌
Speaking as an evangelical, I'll say that there's a bit more of a divide when it comes to the "once saved always saved" thing, since me, my family and others don't believe in it.
Agreed. I came to Christ under a Free Will Baptist pastor, and while I'm not nominally Free Will Baptist, I still believe that apostasy is a real thing. Why someone would reject salvation after having experienced God's grace is beyond my comprehension, but I know there are those who have done it.
@@VTdarkangel I know quite a few from my church that walked away from the faith and went astray, but fortunately found their way back to it. And tbh sometimes it works out for the better, because then their testimonies can help bring others (back) to the faith as well.
@@VTdarkangel You can't turn away from God's grace. This is what is known as the "doctrine of effectual Calling" at least in the reformed/Calvinist view. So we would be inclined to say that they were never truly saved. (Also we/I completely deny the Arminian view of Free will when it comes to soteriology) Not saying this is what you should believe, just that this is most likely the most direct opposing view The Perseverance of the Saints, the elect will endure to the end even if faced with death.
@@Altusfonz Free Will Baptists are Arminian Baptists. They were once known as General Baptists. They (and I) do believe that there is some degree of libertarian free will in that we can choose to reject God's grace. He calls us to faith and reconciliation to Him through His grace, but we have a choice to accept it or reject it. This is different from Calvinist soteriology.
@@Altusfonz " we would be inclined to say that they were never truly saved" That's how I've come to understand it as well. When someone turns their back on the church, they were probably the people being described in 1 John 2:19 "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us." Where the problem seems to occur is as fallible humans, we're really good at deceiving ourselves and also being deceived. So we see a person who has gone to church for 20 years, sings all the songs, leads Bible studies, goes on the mission trips, tithes regularly, etc.... doing all the "outward" stuff we expect Christians to do, so we think, "Joe is a Christian." But Joe is really just going through the motions and is amp'd up on the hype and excitement that can be found in some churches. He might even be a pastor or a worship leader and feeds off the energy and excitement. But he's only putting on a show for himself and everyone else. This again would be what the Bible describes: "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ - Matthew 7:21-23. Faith in God is both personal and corporate. I say that to avoid the error some people make of thinking they can NEVER go to church and still be a Christian, which is ignoring God's instructions in the Book of Hebrews and many of Paul's letters where he describes how the church is one body with many parts, all of which work together. But at the same time, going to church and doing all the "Christian stuff" isn't what makes you a Christian, and THAT is the personal part where, truly, I think only the person himself or herself can know. It really does come down to: "Do I trust in God's mercy and forgiveness, and do I believe what he says about how that changes my relationship to Him?" If yes, then I'm truly a Christian.
I appreciate that you added that Lutherans do affirm the elect will ultimately still persevere whilst also still adding that you affirm you can fall from a state of grace. I can explain further the Lutheran understanding as posited by St. Augustine against the Pelagians.
What he said about Orthodox views on heaven and hell essentially being the same place is kinda true, and also there's the idea that the "hellfire" people talk about is actually the Energies of God that those who reject God will despise, and the same bright light is what shines brightly through the Saints. Just a quick note but it is true the Orthodox view of the afterlife is quite different.
Because Orthodox still has a Greek philosophical worldview in Christian garb. From Heraclitus saying all the spiritual essence was fire, to the conflagarations, to Neoplatonic mystical ascent through tollhouses, the cosmic mystery of the Logos... Orthodoxy adopts the most of Greek thought. And this is why I think it's more true, unlike many Christians who think otherwise.
Through all the details of soteriology and debates on how much our salvation is a choice, it seems like all denominations do agree that end of the day being saved is being with Christ and working with the Spirit so that we may be with the Father. God bless my friends, I hope to know all of you in Heaven and the New Earth.
4:15-4:29 Methodists also basically believe this exact thing. They believe that salvation itself cannot be "lost" once received, but a person can "fall away" from it through a life of sin and a lack of striving for Christian perfection. Which means they could potentially forfeit their salvation by not actively pursuing a holy life.
Slight correction: Holiness theology differs from Methodism in that they say that the second work of grace, entire sanctification, is instantaneous. That is, instead of working your whole life to reach it, you can become perfect instantly. Also, Pentecostals believe that speaking in tongues, the third work of grace, is also the third chronologically. They believe that all the works of grace are instantaneous, and they are New Birth (becoming a Christian), entire sanctification, and speaking in tongues in that order, unlike the video that switched the 2nd and 3rd works of grace.
I was told in my pentecostal church that speaking in tongues is a gift one can receive. Not everyone can speak in tongues, some have a gift for other things such as messages in dreams, ministry, prayer, and a whole list more.
One God but soany versions of salvation. After being Roman Catholic, Southern Baptist, Assamblies of God and finally United Penticostal Church i have dropped the idea an organization has the right formula. By dropping out i have drawn closer to God. It seems each group has a piece of the puzzle however no one group has it all.
Thanks. I was trained as a general baptist in my teens, but also believed one could fall away. This was like the Methodists. I later came to belief in once saved always saved. I believe predestination has to do with God's foreknowledge of who will be saved. He seeks to save everyone, but even with the gift of saving faith, those who will be lost, chose to reject saving faith and become blotted from the book of life. This is again like the Methodist, but with persistant salvation for those who do not reject God's gift of saving faith. Those who are lost are either lost due to their will or due to God's will. God has already said His will is to save everyone, so that only leaves the choice to the humans who are lost, contrary to God's will. I was surprised by the Orthodox view. I thought it was more similar to Catholicism.
Day 23 of asking Redeemed Zoomer to livestream himself listening to the 2006 album Go by the Newsboys because it's good contemporary Christian music (can't stop wont stop 🎉)
As someone going through OCIA to become Catholic, I appreciate how you’re always charitable and fairly represent the Catholic position. Many other Protestants are not so kind.
Great video. One of three non-Catholics I have ever heard represent Catholicism in good faith. I never knew how to distinguish these groups but it is interesting that Mormons closely fall into the Pentacostal category and some will claim to be in the sinless state which is a lovely conversation to have.
All protesting denominations have this truly earthly understanding of time and try fit their "individual" systems into their understanding of time. Interesting to notice how the Orthodox leave so much room for G-d to move.
@@Thatoneguy-pu8ty i see you Have been watching the Ortlund videos? I'm not too versed on the subject (I'm not orthodox). There have been a lot of replies to Ortlund aswell. Anyway, wouldn't say it's an amazing rebuttle to the idea that Orthodox leaves a lot more for working out your faith.
Mortal sin kills faith, but that means you have faith without charity i.e. “dead faith.” So mortal sin really removes charity. Faith with charity is the the “living faith” which saves.
The Baptist view makes more sense to me as it is not a religion, but rather a relationship with Christ, and with the Calvinist view of Presbyterian beliefs, saying that people are predestined to be saved and some aren’t, which is not written or mentioned anywhere in the bible. I am blessed to be a born again Christian who believes in Baptist values
@@PatrickSteilCatholics and Baptists do not have even remotely the same view on salvation. First of all, the VAST majority of Baptists are OSAS (Once saved, always saved), and I know of virtually no Catholics who are.
@@Ssethtzeentach_enjoyer I just meant on the one point of it being a relationship and not a transaction. :) Definitely agree that Catholicism does not ever teach once saved always saved. There are no relationships that work that way :)
This video should be called “How extreme Calvinists see other denominations but fail to understand them due to their hard deterministic gnostic views” there fixed
I’m so glad to hear you articulate the catholic view of salvation so well! I feel like most Protestants absolutely have to strawman our position so all the bible verses that they think go against the catholic church can work. None of them work when you articulate it like that, thanks RZ. I shared this with some non denom friends, hopefully one day we’ll all laugh at these disagreements in heaven.
Nice summary video, zoomer. Quick correction- baptists are historically confessionally reformed (not in the same way as my Presbyterian brothers). This includes views in soteriology, covenantal theology, regulative principles, etc. I highly recommend reading the early confessions such as the first and second London Baptist confession of faith. Each are similar to the Westminster confession than some realize. The Arminian/dispensational Baptist archetype is really a 20th century development largely. Suggest reading about Baptists historical theology. Blessings!!
Very true! I posted above how the reformed baptist view is more similar to the reformed view than the freewill baptist one he described here due to its language of sign and thing signified and covenant membership. It just doesn't want to seperate the sign and thing signified, like the view of communion as well. If one can separate sign and signified by giving them to infants why deny them communion?
I appreciate the disclaimer where you differentiate between Reformed/Particular Baptists and general Baptists. Us 1689ers are used to being lumped in with non-denoms in your videos.
I really appreciate how you stayed focused on the central theme in each denomination, not mentioning other foibles and idiosyncrasies, that was very brotherly of you! 😀 But where I get hazy on all this is I try to picture Jesus walking with his disciples, and pulling out a white-board on a tri-pod and using a dry-mark begin diagraming all the biz-buz nonsense complexifications of his salvation message, and seeing Peter look over at John and say "Really? I never knew it was so complicated!" Somehow, I think when Jesus comes back he will probably not be too happy with all the Pharisees that have shown up in his newly born church.
dang! I really love your vids!! mind to also talk about the act of praying comparing habits throughout the history and maybe what each denomination may focus more when it comes to praying? maybe what I'm asking doesn't make sense at all but I better ask than keep quiet, and thanks again for taking the time for your explanations
As a Baptist I'd say "If you stopped believing, you never truly believed" is creating the wrong impression. It implies that it's possible somebody wouldn't know if they have true belief. I know right now that I truly believe and as such I know with 100% certainty that I am saved
Denomination makes no difference. Belief in Jesus Christ, and acceptance of Him as your Lord and Savior is the ONLY way to heaven. Period. It is written.
Hey, Zoomer. How's it going? I'm a presbyterian who is thinking a lot about the possibility of becoming catholic after studying a little about the church fathers and the church history. Could you make a video for protestants who are considering becoming catholic or orthodox? God bless everyone!!!
I was an Evangelical that became a Byzantine Catholic in 2004. Reading the Early Church Fathers is also what lead me home. He's a couple of my favorite: St. Cyprian, bishop of Carthage “The Lord says to Peter: ‘I say to you,’ he says, ‘that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not overcome it. And to you I will give the keys of the kingdom of heaven . . . ’ [Matt. 16:18-19]. On him [Peter] he builds the Church, and to him he gives the command to feed the sheep [John 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. Indeed, the others were that also which Peter was [i.e., apostles], but a primacy is given to Peter, whereby it is made clear that there is but one Church and one chair. . . . If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he should desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church?” (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4; 1st edition [A.D. 251] “There is one God and one Christ, and one Church, and one chair founded on Peter by the word of the Lord. It is not possible to set up another altar or for there to be another priesthood besides that one altar and that one priesthood. Whoever has gathered elsewhere is scattering” (Letters 43[40]:5 [A.D. 253] St. Optatus, bishop of Milevus “You cannot deny that you are aware that in the city of Rome the episcopal chair was given first to Peter; the chair in which Peter sat, the same who was head-that is why he is also called Cephas [‘Rock’]-of all the apostles; the one chair in which unity is maintained by all” (The Schism of the Donatists 2:2 [A.D. 367] St. Jerome “I follow no leader but Christ and join in communion with none but your blessedness [Pope Damasus I], that is, with the chair of Peter. I know that this is the rock on which the Church has been built. Whoever eats the Lamb outside this house is profane. Anyone who is not in the ark of Noah will perish when the flood prevails” (Letters 15:2 [A.D. 396] St. Augustine, bishop of Hippo “There are many other things which most properly can keep me in her [the Catholic Church’s] bosom. The unanimity of peoples and nations keeps me here. Her authority, inaugurated in miracles, nourished by hope, augmented by love, and confirmed by her age, keeps me here. The succession of priests, from the very see of the apostle Peter, to whom the Lord, after his resurrection, gave the charge of feeding his sheep [John 21:15-17], up to the present episcopate, keeps me here. And last, the very name Catholic, which, not without reason, belongs to this Church alone, in the face of so many heretics, so much so that, although all heretics want to be called ‘Catholic,’ when a stranger inquires where the Catholic Church meets, none of the heretics would dare to point out his own basilica or house” (Against the Letter of Mani Called “The Foundation” 4:5 [A.D. 397] Ecumenical Council of Chalcedon “Wherefore the most holy and blessed (Pope)Leo, archbishop of the great and elder Rome, through us, and through this present most holy synod, together with the thrice blessed and all-glorious Peter the apostle, who is the rock and foundation of the Catholic Church, and the foundation of the orthodox faith, has stripped him [Dioscorus] of the episcopate” (Acts of the Council, session 3 [A.D. 451]
Any particular road blocks that bother you? I converted a couple years ago and have been obsessed with apologetics. I was raised methodist but i studied a couple calvinist churches and theologies for about a decade.
It's interesting. My Mom was raised Lutheran and describes having "always felt Saved/Christian" and they raised me Baptist. As a child I went along with church stuff and eventually got Baptized because I felt like I should. But in retrospect I feel like I was going through the motions because I was just a kid. After some angsty agnostic, God-Hating teen years, I had an experience while reading a book by a Christian author (Lacey Sturm) that, after me lying in bed awake for almost the whole night, ended with me choosing to follow Jesus a few days later, and I started going back to (my childhood) church. Would this be in line with the Baptist view? I can't describe what those days felt like, other than I felt like I was inside a "Dolly Zoom" or something. To this day, I feel weird when asked "why" I became/wanted to become Christian because, I really didn't. I had my angsty, objectivist, passion driven, hedonic life and was content. But it was like all of a sudden I was aware of a whole in my chest or a limb that was missing.
The One God Jesus wants you. Read Acts 2:38. There's a podcast named "Biblos" that explains fundamental Biblical Doctrine. It's a wonderful podcast and explains a lot. God bless!
@@ChristIsMyLordnSaviorno it wouldn’t have. Christianity is far more nuanced than that. People make big mistakes in not understanding what they believe. Also believing is different then having faith, also the relationships and functions of grace, regeneration, sanctification, justification, mystical union, atonement, and reconciliation. As well as the rolls that the persons of the trinity have in this process.
Ephesians 2:8-9 NIV 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
I would read C.S. Lewis’ “Mere Christianity,” the Bible, especially the gospels, and “The Case for Christ” to become familiar with historical arguments. In terms of picking what type of Christianity to practice, I would read the Church Fathers and the Scholastics and come to your own conclusion rather than watching debates which are often heavy on rhetoric and light on substance.
Mark, John, Romans. That will give you the basics. Focus on the Gospels and the New Testament to start. Find a Church you like and SUBMIT yourself there. Be open to correction, remembering that fathers correct their sons out of love but punish and cast out unproductive servants. There is no test you cannot pass, only lessons that need to be learned. Putting feathers in your jacket and hanging out in a hen house doesn't make you a chicken, "getting into" the bible and going to church doesn't make you a Christian. God is Fractal and infinite, a little piece contains the whole, but a repeating pattern can be separated from his wholeness and deified on its own, be careful. You want the Whole Deal. Go All In.
What do I fall under? I believe that having faith in God, having a relationship with Him and turning away from a sinful lifestyle is all you need for salvation, through Christ's death, we are saved, since nobody is morally perfect.
Since you believe all of that, you are a Christian. Good Job. A lot of what is in this video is more of the extra stuff you do after you realize the key points and can depend on the denomination. A good thing to do regardless of denomination is to remember Acts 2:38, which includes St. Peter's instructions for the new followers to the church. The most important part of this verse is to "Repent and be baptized." Most of what you do will follow that as you will be doing so "in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." (Acts 2:38 NIV). These two rules are important, and, as seen in the video, most denomination's rules are just based off of these two points. Once again for emphasis, "Repent and be baptized."
Reading my above comment, I just looked at Acts 2:38, and it's pretty clear why doing both repentance and baptism are important as you "receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." (Acts 2:38 NIV). Ignore what I said about it being extra, it's still important to do so both of these, hence why they make up a prominent portion of the video. [They may not be the first thing you do (as that is believing that Jesus is your Lord and Savior), but they should very well be the second things you do.]
You botched Wesleyan salvation The works of grace aren’t taken by us, they’re taken by God. The first work of grace (prevenient grace) is when God gives us the *choice* to receive the Gospel. At one point, some will make that decision, and God performs the second work of grace on them, baptizing us in the Spirit. Sanctification is its own part separate from the two works of grace.
Video request: Could you please do a video on the Tetragrammaton? (Is it a name or title? What does it mean? Should we say it? Is it relevant to salvation at all? How do the denominations differ on this issue? etc.) I've been trying to understand its significance and meaning and have found many different conflicting answers.
Good Summary. The problem with most of these philosophies is that they lack scriptural foundation in every salvation point they make. Further, they cannot point to a several examples or even a single example in the new testament of someone achieving salvation through these means. Brothers, we are to hear people preach and be Bereans (Acts 17:10-12) as Jesus continuously warned us that there will be many false doctrines and Paul confirmed not only Christ isnt divided, but he teaches the same thing in every church (1 Cor 4:17, 1 Cor 7:17 etc). So I challenge you not only to make sure your doctrine matches God's word at every stage. But also it has examples in the book of Acts to back it up. As the issue of you going to Heaven is a very serious one and the road is narrow.
