How To Install A Whole House Surge Protector | TL Davis Electric & Design 

How else are you supposed to install the SPD if the load center is flush mounted and surrounded by drywall?

@terrydavis Does the placement not matter if your wires aren't long enough to relocate other breakers? Is this because its still the shortest path to ground being at the panel?

Two types of people remove panel covers. Electricians and idiots.

Why should you not mount the SPD in the panel?

@@GetOffMyIce probably due to code standards. it shouldn't matter electrical wise. but an inspector if you sold the house would most likely demand it be removed. so 25 bucks for a drywall patch kit or use some scraps and youre good.

I got several screwdrivers with the metal wrapped in electrical tape. I'm in hvac... so no I'm not inside yur traditional electrical panels often outside of my own house and more times than not working in hvac control panels we have the power off anyway... but at some point there's only so much you can do with the power off. So ya gotta be safe! I like the idea you mentioned using shrink wrap!! Definitely gonna try that!

They make insulated screwdrivers for hot-work. Also, don't neglect the value of NFPA 70-110.14(D) Terminal Connection Torque.

As soon as I saw him tying the neutral in I was like " how do they even live down there?"

I personally hate doing panel work with a flat head blade! Lol. Robinson #2 all day.

If you are not an electrician you should always shut the MCB off before installing the breaker. You should always wear leather gloves and safety glasses when working on electrical equipment. When doing these video's you try and get everything right. I also let them know if they feel uncomfortable they should hire it done by a licensed electrician.

I'd kill the power before opening the panel box up.

Nice that you screwed someone.

@@13612 How is that screwing somebody ? Must be an electrican making that dumb comment

Inspectors are a joke

@@marshalldavis7364 Torque spec. what are you building ? You must be just being funny lol.

This is energized work. It's pretty tame by energized work standards but I've done just a little research, enough to get dangerous. This is typically a 240/120V system. (Use 250V when selecting insulated tools.) Meters and probes are CAT IV. 250V has no restricted approach boundary, just work in a way that "avoids" touching energized parts. Class 00 gloves would be sufficient, but even at that lowest possible rating they're expensive. Arc flash took some more research. Here's some testing mostly at ~7,200V and 480V. Those flames are no joke. Oh, and the *lower voltage is more dangerous*. It can strike a decent arc that takes a long time to clear, just keeps blasting flame at you. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-fZP47mlELSc.html I eventually found a PG&E policy from 2009 that sets their protection level for pulling or installing 240/120V meters at 8 calories per square centimeter. 8 cal/cm^2 is not great but it's not horrible. Hearing protection and all skin covered with fire-resistant material - think face shield, goggles, firefighter's balaclava. www.pge.com/includes/docs/pdfs/mybusiness/customerservice/startstop/newconstruction/greenbook/servicerequirements/appB-FRletter.pdf The best arc flash protection is minimizing the hazard. I'm looking at the gap between those hot buses and thinking "Jacob's ladder, oh hell no." I'd not be comfortable doing that work with the main breaker in. So what if you have to work by flashlight? De-energize those bus bars! Also, the screwdriver with the uninsulated shaft is an arc hazard if it's dropped into the service feeder. So that's what I'd personally be comfortable with. Balaclava, ear plugs, face shield. Main breaker disconnected, prove the bus bars dead. Non-conductive floor, leather gloves as shock protection. Insulated tools, stay away from the service wires, cover them if possible. I would personally be comfortable with non-rated gear - cotton and wool. A dry chunk of 2x4 and duct-tape to cover the feeder; it's under 250V and tracking isn't a concern.

williamhoodtn you’re so smart

Don't give advice home owner.

Says the guy who might not have ever worked on an old Murray MB panel or some crappy old FPE. Turning off the main can open up a can of worms. Sometimes the MB cannot be reset so then what?

@@electricalron Nope, never have done that. I'm sure you are right. But since your videos are also seen by non-electricians (like me), safety should be at the top of the list when making a silly mistake can kill you.

I only installed it in the panel do to a special situation. Normally they are installed on the outside of the panel, either surface mount or recessed mount.

Eaton sells the breaker type.........

Ferrules are nice and the NFPA allows them on stranded.

Even just to set a good example for us kids

Yeah why the ground in the neutral bar??

Yes, why on the same bar?

Good Tip, I went back to my panel 3 months after new and re-torqued all the breaker conductor connections, found 1/4 turn on many and some took almost a full turn tighter. It is good prevention to nuisance tripping and costly breaker over heating damage.

I just want to clarify that it is not always the main panel, but is the first point of disconnect. If your outside service has a breaker that kills power to the pane where the majority of your breakers are housed,l then you need to keep the grounds and neutrals on the correct bars on that panel or mount in the disconnect(if possible) and bond grounds and neutrals

Thats not the purpose of this video

You could mount the spd outside of the panel but you must not exceed the 1 meter wire limits. The shorter the wire used the better.

I agree with installing outside the box to check the status of the lights at a glance.

You could drill a couple of small holes to view the lights.

turn off main power before working in the box

​@@williamtamminga5889 there's a lot of wrong w/ this. To turn off the power completely you'd have to pull the meter and in our area you can't do that without a permit. When you turn the main breaker off there is still voltage present on the Line side of the main breaker. So with the main breaker off, it's still considered energized because there is voltage present and pulling a permit for this application isn't practical. Unfortunately most electricians are not trained in electrical safety even though they're electricians. I know, it sounds crazy but I see and hear it all the time.

It does not matter on location in box. You are correct!. They don't like them more than 3' in length, the longer they are the less efficient they become. Good job.

Unless your sub-panel in the accessory building has circuits that exit the building (external lighting /pump/motor) Probably 2. Both building mains. However, if the sub panel feeds expensive equipment (welding machine/saws/motors/computers etc) which are costly to lose/repair - putting one on the sub panel (type 2) is not a bad idea..

Your goal will be to attach to a double pole circuit breaker that you know will remain untripped. My suggestion is the dryer circuit. Do not illegally double-tap the existing circuit breaker. Google about this. You need to either pig tail or get a proper tandem double-pole circuit breaker replacement that is designed for double-tapping.

It’s common to drill a small hole in line with the green lights. If the green lights are on it’s working properly. Once it’s taken too many hits depending on the electric service in that area. The lights go out. They can last 1 year or 10 years depending on the power supply surges.

you must not be an electrician.

So was it your"whole house" surge protector blew and didn't even protect your computers?

@@24kgalaxy I had 1 20k joule surge protector, 2 motherboards that were plugged into the surge protector, 1 modem, and a drop cable amplifier that was taken out. A whole house surge protector probably would have helped me out.

The lights flickered then I heard an explosion. Then I notice things not working on my PC like my USB ports. I looked at my surge protector and it was red instead of green.

I looked the story up. They are no longer in business. But this is an Eaton product, why smear Mike Holmes? He doesn't make the products.

@@robertlee4172 I did not smear anyone. Just pointing out fact.

@@gregsz1ful Did Holmes endorse the Sycom product, or merely used it on an install? Ya, I thought so.

@@robertlee4172 His registered electrician installed it. If you watched all of Holmes shows, you have seen it installed several times. Not sure what your problem is.

@@robertlee4172 Holmes endorsed installing a surge device many times. after my original Sycom device exploded during a storm, they sent me a replacement. After installing a new one ai learned about the recall.

Great catch on that. There was a freezer next to the panel that kicked on when we turned on the breaker.

Each big thing should get its own dedicated breaker, right?

my thoughts exactly!! Much easier to check without opening the panel.

Don't drill any hole in the cover, as you void the UL warranty.

@@terrydavis5882 They are talking about drilling a small hole in the metal panel cover, not the device as you hid the status indicators.

Do not drill any holes in the cover. The install was for a special need to not show the lights as the person, has a child that likes to pull apart anything that has lights on it. I will be putting out a better video on how to install the SPD. This video will cover existing panels. New panels, surface mount panels.

I installed mine on the outside

Not wrong at all. I've been doing that for years.

the type 2 has a higher aic rating than the type 1. Type 1 and type 2 are indoor rated. type 3 is outdoor rated and nema 4x is outdoor rated. you have bought a good Spd. make sure you put the right breaker in for it. Good luck on your project and make sure to turn off the power to the panel if you are not an electrician. Thanks for your comment.

It's probably too late for this, but those are probably the UL 1449 type ratings. Type 1 is intended as a permanent installation between utility and panel to arrest lightning. Type 2 is intended as just after your distribution panel and may or may not arrest lightning. Type 3 is the point of use protectors you usually find around as power strips. blog.nvent.com/the-applications-and-limitations-of-ul-1449-for-surge-protective-devices-spds/ www.nemasurge.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/SPD-Type-Application-Considerations-Rev-Date-01-31-2013.pdf

He needed a type 1 SPD at that location. Main panel installs = type 1 SPD.

The surge protection will have information telling what size of breaker to use. And if you want to put it on the outside. You can use 1/2” flex and two flex connector and a deep 4 square box. Knock out the 1/2” ko in the box and one in the panel. Do not add wiring to lengthen the wire on the surge protection device. If you need a diagram you can email me at daviselectricaldesign@gmail.com

@@terrydavis3863 Thanks! I understand. For sizing, I mean, how do you know whether to buy the CHSPT2SURGE (which takes a 20 amp breaker) or CHSPT2ULTRA (which takes a 50 amp breaker)? Looking at specs online I see a kA surge rating, but how does one determine how many kiloamps to protect against?

Sorry, 15 amp, not 20.

If the surge protector does its job and breaks a surge, is it possible to reset that protector or do you need to replace it with a new one?

Sorry the long delay. Eaton makes a flush mounting kit to install it in the sheet rock. On residential homes I would not install greater than 50 kva as it is a waste of money. 50 kva, 80 kva, 100 kva, do the exact same thing. Just look at as hits. 50 hits, 80 hits, 100 hits,

Count your spaces in regard to the existing breakers and go from there. Easy way is to also hold the cover back up the way it was before, make note of which spaces need knocked out, and you're all set. Basic math. As for the physical aspect of removing the cover knock outs, take a pair of pliers (or if you have strong fingers and depending on your type of panel) and bend them whichever way the bump on the knockout rises. If it rises up towards you, bend that way. It might take a few back and forth bends before it snaps and breaks off. Some brands (Square D Homeline) can break off in one bend with just my fingers. It's relatively easy overall. (And if you break out the wrong spaces, they make space blanks for panels that can be installed to cover your mistake)

He can't because this is an illegal installation and he knows it (or should, after 30yrs). If it was the proper device for in panel installation, it would plug into the buss and the panel cover would have spaces for it.

Thanks for the info. The electrical warehouse did not know they made one. The cost is about $32.00 dollars on amazon and the warehouse was a couple of dollars more for contractors.

This won't work without ground.

No, when you install this as close to your home's power's main point of entry as possible, everything 'downstream' is protected. Since a sub panel is fed from the main panel, it is no more than another 2-pole circuit in the main panel, and therefore, protected just like everything else.

Yes that’s fine.

In a service entrance panel like this there are usually at least two, and I have seen as many as four, ground/neutral bars. The service entrance panel is the first breaker panel past the meter, whether it's mounted inside or outside.

@@robertmoore254 Yeah but it appears he's working in the sub-panel, not the main service panel (which normally is outside in new-builds anyway). In the main panel, they're combined so if you're putting an SPD there they go together on the one buss. In the sub-panel they're separated...like this panel. So why wouldn't the green wire not go to the ground buss (with the rest of the green grd. wires) rather than with the white wire on the neutral buss? It appears to me Mr. Davis has contradicted himself on several occasions/comments here.

Yes. You are protecting the panel and all device down stream from the panel. You are trying to stop the surge at the panel and not at the device.

Can I use two single pole breakers from the distribution board for it or should I get a new 2-pole breaker?

I don't know where you got your information from?. The training that I received requires a two pole breaker and that breaker needs to be dedicated for the SPD.

In a main panel they are connected. The neutral and ground bar are the same. Only in a sub panel are they seperated.

@@terrydavis5882 Then why didn't you put the green wire on the "grd." buss? Are you implying that although they are separated out in the subpanel that they are still tied together there so it doesn't matter?

I'm not sure exactly what you are asking for. Are you talking about connecting two single breakers together that will trip at the same time. They make the snap on clamps to connect breakers together. You might find them at Home Depot or Lowes or your electrical supplier. I would suggest you buy a double pole breaker or a quad breaker that has that snap on already on the breaker from the manufacture.

Yes layering surge protection is always recommended!