Timestamps: 0:00 Intro 3:26 Gojo VS Jogo 6:00 Tai Lung VS Furious 5 7:46 Dragons VS Armies 10:19 Dae-Su VS Thugs 13:05 Thanos VS Avengers & Guardians 16:18 Saitama VS Boros
Along the lines of Dae-Su vs the thugs, I was actually thinking about the Netflix Daredevil series, specifically the halfway fight early in season 1, and I was hoping it would be here because I was curious about your thoughts, I actually need to go rewatch it myself, I don't remember specifics but I think it avoids the one-thug-at-a-time thing until it's justified because Daredevil has beaten the thugs to the point only one of them can stand up to fight him at a time 😂
Basically every fight from the World Trigger manga is a masterclass in strategy, and is usually a david v golaiath. One thing I love is that its never just the heroes who are smart. No one ever loses due to being an idiot, just by the opponent having a more thought out plan. I think the first fight in the B Rank Wars arc is a great fight to illustrate this since it requires very little context to understand, making it good for making a point in a 20-30 minute video. Note that the anime is awful so reading it will probably be farm more enjoyable and interesting.
"One thug at a time" works well if the choreography makes it clear that the fly swatter is maneuvering to make his opponents face him one at a time. For example, if he chooses a chokepoint for the fight, or stays mobile so the group has to keep chase and he keeps singling out opponents. That's how you beat multiple opponents in real life, after all.
In the Witcher 3 game there's a castle ruins full of bandits I always tackle way too early in order to get a specific reward, and it has literally dozens of bandits, with reinforcements spawning in, and since I'm so underleveled I basically die in two hits, making it impossible to survive unless I use the terrain to my advantage. From being a real pain in the ass, it has grown to be my favorite fight in the entire game, because I feel like a goddamn musketeer fighting my way around a castle, finding choke points in doorways and on stairs, forced to actually use my spells creatively to stay alive instead of just using the same few trusty spells in the same way in every fight. Any movie fight where someone is facing more than three opponents who don't all rush him makes me roll my eyes so hard.
@@korganrocks3995 Eh depends, it gets difficult to swarm a guy all at once after a certain point, because you are more likely to hit your allies than the little left of your opponent, and different weapons clear different amounts of space near a person- though in most cases it usually makes sense to form a ring around the foe even if you are not actively engaging. Of course most things in film are exxagerated to the point of breaking suspension of belief, but the inversion of a flawed or false picture is still seldom the completly correct one
@@No-longer1 This is why the lone fighter having a blade(preferably a long one) makes this kind of thing much more realistic, because no one wants to get too close to it. A lone fighter wielding a blunt weapon or no weapon at all is easily taken down by several people rushing him at once. Whether this actually is what happens in real fights when a single person is outnumbered doesn't actually matter for the realism; all that matters is what the average viewer finds realistic. Most people have not participated in or seen fights between one person and multiple opponents in reality, so while we might be way off, we'll still be bothered by the perceived unrealistic scene.
in a D&D encounter one time my character's party encountered an enemy who was way too strong for all of us at once. so my character cast shape earth on the ledge under his feet to trip him up so we could RUN!
With regards to the last fight shown here, that being the Saitama V Boros fight, there's also another layer to the whole thing that feeds into characterisation. Boros gives a monologue preceding the one he was interrupted in, where he explains he spent 20 years flying across the entire universe seeking a worthy opponent. While Saitama never did any searching by conquering planets, he does fully understand the boredom Boros faces, so him not fighting back and even asking "Are you done?" mid-monologue adds to his characterisation that he's deliberately giving Boros a chance to fight at full power to give him that thrill Saitama himself thinks he'll never find. That very characterisation is the reason the fight goes on as long as it does, and yet it still works because Boros is using new powers and transforms twice within the relatively small space of 12 or so minutes.
Viewers are always waiting for Saitama rival during the show. And Boros fight really gives them (hope) that "this is it". But yeah, it's actually just heavily masked fly swatting You just don't expect this guy survive THIS MUCH damage. But Saitama just doesn't care😂
Part of what makes it spectacular is the sheer spectacle of it. The manga is exceedingly well drawn, which sells the sheer scale of carnage that the fighters (Mainly Boros) inflict: blowing through thousands of decks, ripping hull plating, smashing Saitama so hard he hits the moon, and that beautiful contrast of how the cloud cover is completely spilt. All that just doesn't affect our character in any meaningful way. Sure, the fight has zero tension as Satamina clearly isn't giving his all, even though his normal series of attacks are pretty basic and has all the energy of "well I guess I better finish it now because this is getting out of hand. Oh, and I'll throw one punch with intent to kill to finish the fight". But every panel is drawn gloriously which sells the sheer scale of the conflict that we can't help but be entertained. Plus we had the S-class heroes build up just how damn challenging Boro's minions are, so we are fully sold on how big a deal this fight is, just the protagonist is just too strong to even care. That sets the stakes that isn't exceeded until much later in the manga.
The opening of the Kung Fu Panda Bridge fight is very cool visual storytelling. Ti Lung switches to walking on the support rope, forcing Tigress to shift her balance while he remains collected and relaxed. Even before the fight begins, he’s already in control and throwing her opponents off their rhythem
Another thing that makes the Saitama/Boros fight interesting is how it turns the antagonist into basically the underdog: as the fight goes on, the focus slowly shifts from Saitama, who’s having an easy time as always, to Boros who’s really giving his all and even enjoying this surprising challenge that suddenly fell into his hands. Every time Saitama tanks his moves, or resists one of his power-ups, Boros doesn’t feel fear, or rage, but excitement and fulfillment. All of this helps making an ultimately one-note, derivative character more endearing and memorable, to the point one may even root for him, a little bit
I've ended up saving that episode in my video collection. I go back to it from time to time it's a great episode. The part where Saitama starts to show more interest as Boros survies a Punch is also a nice touch. The destructive showcase of power that everyone else outside of their fight witnesses also help to sell it
I think another perfect example of fly swatting from One Punch Man comes even before Boros: The Deep Sea King fight. He quickly becomes the biggest threat we've seen so far in the show, the stakes are quickly set that he can (and will) destroy every human on that and every other city, we see every character struggle in the show so far fight with their all only to fail, it develops Genos character because he chooses to almost sacrifice himself for a random girl (before this fight, he didn't even care for civilian casualties) and shows Mumen Rider (a "nobody" without power who does as much as he always can and more to help) try to take on Deep Sea while giving a moving speech, only to fail completely afterwards. It's a fly swatting in the villain's favour. And at the end, when Saitama finally arrives, they pull the rug from under the spectator feet, and the fight's over before Deep Sea King can even land a punch. The fly swatting reverses, and then we see how everyone cheers for Saitama, but dismisses everyone else's sacrifice just because they couldn't defeat the monster. So he discredits himself saying it was because of everyone else and he'll steal the credit. So the glory goes back to those who almost gave their lives for the fight, even if it means he'll be hated by everyone, because he doesn't care about his image, his name or his "brand". He genuinely wants to help not because he'll get something for it, but because he has the power to do so. And this fight shows how far he's wiling to go, sacrificing his public image for the sake of everyone else's The fight's a double fly swatting that feels interesting, develops two character, leaves you with a better understanding of the protagonist and never overstays it's welcome since it ends in literally a single punch
Personally I don’t think that saitama “doesn’t care” about his image. He cares just a little bit. We see him get frustrated during the meteor event, the hammer head gang jackin his bald look, and caped baldy is not a name he really likes. It’s just that when push comes to shove he prioritizes other people over his own well being.
@@yukii381it would be better to say that it isn't his priority. He cares about it but won't let it get in the way of helping people, good deals, his friends or having fun as a hero.
My favourite fly swatting scene that comes to mind is Gojo vs Jogo, Hanami, Choso, and Mahito. The fact that they have a reasonable plan to counter Gojo, are taking advantage of the terrain and all of their abilities to the fullest, and yet Gojo still brutally decimates them is amazing to watch. Especially when he manages to focus down Hanami and fully finish him off, too often in fights are characters slapped around and left until they can get back up. It's the first time we see Gojo go all-out and actually have to exert himself, and it's got great characterizations for all characters involved, great strategy from the weaker side, and great visuals and animation to back it all up. Truly an instant classic.
I think this fight is not a fly swatting fight because in the end they win, they don't kill him but they manage to capture him because of Kenjaku. And this results in the escalation of the Shibuya incident.
I'd argue it's more of a David Vs Goliath fight due to the outcome and because the weaker side employs a lot of strategy to try to beat the stronger side but i digress
I feel like there's a handful of good situations for one-at-a-time fights and that fight scene actually makes sense to me. It's a fairly narrow hallway with a bunch of street thugs who probably didn't discuss strategy in advance. A lot of them are wielding weapons they use in wide-swinging arcs, which don't work well in narrow spaces. The dude they're fighting also has a weapon. So, naturally, it takes a second for everyone to get up to speed and they only work well together once or twice. Some of them are more aggressive than others, some hang back because they're worried about catching a stray from a friend, etc. I think it was about as close to realistic as it could get and still have the good guy win.
One at a time is how 1vX are won in real life, because good positionning, friendly fire and untrained cohesiveness allows to force successive 1v1s. Go look at fights, go look at weapon sparring. One at a time is far from an automatic sin. That being said, what was shown was the most unwinnable situation I have ever seen. All his "good exemples" had the 1 in the 1vX be clearly physically superior in an open field, so with way better odds. If he ever lost suspension of disbelief, it's not because of one at a time, it's because the guy won at all.
I think the better David vs Goliath fights are the ones where David's goal isn't to defeat Goliath, just secure an objective that is within their reach when outright victory would be impossible for them. Tien from Dragonball Z isn't really allowed to win any fights after Dragonball given the universal power scaling being a joke for humans, but he's able to hold Semiperfect Cell off for a while to allow other characters to escape by using a move that could never kill Cell, but it can push him deeper and deeper into a crater so that he can't get up and pursue his targets. Tien burns through his own life energy, showing he's putting way more into this than Cell is to close the power gap a bit while Cell needs energy to still actually win a fight when he gets out, and Tien's doing it to cause a disruption way above his weight class rather than outright victory. There's no question at any point that Cell could kill Tien, but rather the drama is in whether or not Tien can successfully stall Cell before burning out his own life or slipping up and dying to Cell. The audience doesn't know the outcome the same way they do when weaker protagonist must defeat stronger antagonist for narrative conclusion, as Tien can simply die and the narrative moves on to the obviously stronger characters who are going to be the real battle, but it kept our attention to see how it went down.
This was the first thing I thought about when I read the title- instances when the stakes are not tied to who wins the fight, but some other aspect of it. "Sure, character A isn't going to beat character B, but can A keep B distracted long enough for C to escape with the macguffin?" Actually, that Vader scene from Star Wars: Rogue One is a great example of this.
For David vs Goliath fights, I >BEG OF YOU< to use some Hunter x Hunter fight. Doesn't matter which. It can be Gon vs Genthru, it can be Killua vs the Chimera Ant siblings, it can be Meruem vs Netero, it can be... SO MANY of the fights in that show. That show is the KING of David vs Goliath fights and your video on the topic will NOT be complete without it. It's also the inspiration for JJK.
Jujutsu tech students againtst the forest curse was a fly swatting until the arrival of besto friendos at which point it became a david and goliath battle Poor david had a real hard time managing the boogie woogie and yuji "Black flash mashinegun" itadori
HunterxHunter also does something interesting for flyswatting, in that is characterizing the loser and failing to use their nen to the fullest, as with hisoka vs kastro or Morelle vs Cheetu.
I love how this happens in Baki When Baki fights someone, it's like "How is he gonna beat this guy" because Baki usually goes for opponents stronger than him When Yujiro fights someone, it's still like "How's he gonna beat this guy" because despite winning every fight in like ten seconds, Yujiro never beats his enemies with a normal punch. It's usually something insane like ripping a dudes face off with one hand or pushing them through an entire convenience store
Old Boy: you're missing out that this is happening in a narrow corridor preventing them to all attack at the same time. You also probably got confused by the side view which is only a cinematic view as opposed to what is really happening in the movie and some actors might be stepping a bit out of where they should have stayed when they all attack at the same time. As for 20 guys attacking at the same time, try it with 19 of your friends armed with a baseball bat vs a moving piñata and you'll see that it requires crazy coordination if you don't want to hit each others bats, hands, arms and face. Everyone is hesitating and scared of their teammates who could hit them by accident.
Old boy being mentioned as a bad fight was something i didn't expected at all. The fight was never intended to be a great fight, where Odesu can show off his skills. The movie is about him and the antagonists crazy revenge fantasy. Odesu just did some work out in a room for years on end without any fighting skills. The Hallway where the fight mentioned takes place in was not only very narrow but also wet, and you can even see the thugs slipping on the floor or missing hits due to space and slipping, same with Odesu. On top of that, noone won the fight. Odesu managed to get out there alive, since noone really wanted to continue to battle as Odesu is clearly insane, unpredictable and managed to get through the mass of people. Its one of the best fight scenes in cinema for the whole choreography being in one single shot, where the fight in itself is cohesive (in comparison he could have used the Old Boy Remake fight scene as a bad example instead), and realistically not a single person realistically would have been able to get out of Odesus situation alive
14:20 Personally, I disagree with this point. I do believe that in most circumstances Thanos should have ,and would have, taken them all out, but there exists a problem. Thanos wants something from them. It isn't unreasonable to believe that Thanos understood the situation with Doctor Strange, and this scene showcases his wisdom. He knows that Doctor Strange has what he wants, and he has to give it up willingly. I believe this is the purpose of his actions. I believe that this scene shows how he is still a creature with fear, but he has ambition and wisdom that allowed him to have made it this far. I think that the writers included this as a way to express him as a very complex character. This is also why he doesn't slaughter everyone after he wins the time stone. The writers wanted to further the plot that Thanos is egotistical yet merciful, and the decision for him to not finish off one of the greatest threats to his conquest expresses that.
14:43 I think the issue with the move is simply the existence of the move at all. The way Thanos should’ve defeated them was by learning their capabilities and abilities throughout the fight and then adapting and using that knowledge to defeat them, which of course he couldn’t have done immediately when they first jumped him. This, of course, would require complex fight choreography and writing which is beyond most of Marvel. Alternatively, establish some reason why he either couldn’t or was unwilling to use such a powerful move in the first place, for example show him absorbing power from their moves and storing it in the gauntlet, or show that at the start of the fight the Avengers and Guardians are fresh and able to take such a hit and keep fighting, then show them getting tired and then beaten by the same or a similar move later on.
14:30 In general defense of the "waiting to use your full power" trope, it actually does make realistic sense when you think of it terms of how easy it is to use some of your strength vs all of it. Why drop a nuke on every opponent, when a few punches will do? Once they start showing a chance of actually winning, though, that's when the cost becomes outweighed by the possibility of actually losing the fight, and that's when it makes sense to use your full power.
It also does work for characterisation, specifically to display a character’s pride. A good example of this would be Emiya Shirou vs Gilgamesh in Fate: Unlimited Blade Works, where Gilgamesh explicitly states that he would consider using his full power to be a loss, because that’s the standard he must hold himself to as a king. He loses because he doesn’t use his strongest weapon, but it doesn’t feel unsatisfying at all because it’s entirely realistic for him to do so. Thanos also works in that context, because he’s an egomaniac and equally has his pride to uphold. He takes his armour off at the beginning of the movie for exactly that reason, he doesn’t believe anything is a threat to him with the stones. And when he does almost lose the gauntlet, he panics and immediately starts spamming his strongest attacks, exactly how you’d expect someone in that situation to do.
Thanos is pretty arrogant when you think about. He thought and knew there was no way they’d bounce back from that, and in the end when he died on Titan he didn’t care because he did what he needed to do.
@@alex2005z at risk of sounding stupid (I haven't seen the movie), if you plan on killing half the universe, there's no reason not to start with a couple guys in front of you, right?
@@Squampopulous I think he wanted the stones to decide who lives or dies or something. Plus he is "Honest" about the way he does thing and he does keep deals
I’ve actually been having a lot of trouble with this, thanks. My series that I’m writing has an OP antagonist that is supposed to be a benchmark for the characters to grow to. I wanted to showcase that strength without the butt-whooping being too boring to watch. I’ve been thinking about that a lot lately, and this helped me think some things over.
I think the best example of a 1 v. many fly-swatting fight that I can think of is the Warehouse fight in Batman v. Superman. Regardless of how you feel about Batman’s characterization, the fight excellently shows how it avoids the tired enemies-taking-turns trope. The most crucial moment of this fight is Batman’s opener as it gives him many advantages against a group: 1) allows him to take the jump on an entire room full of armed men. If you don’t already know, Batman initiated the fight by blowing up the ground beneath the middle of the group. This gives him a unique angle in the fight. 2) some of the men fall through the hole and are instantly taken out of the equation 3) those remaining fall to the ground disoriented 4) this gives Batman enough time to grapple to the ceiling which gives him the vantage point 5) because the thugs never saw him, they still assume he was down there and start firing in the wrong direction 6) Batman’s hidden vantage point gives him the opportunity to use his superior equipment in order to neutralize all of the rifles in the room 7) the device that neutralizes the guns also act as a mini explosive that will take out some of the goons and disorient others 8) after all is said and done, the remaining few are left scattered leaving low chances to jump Batman Once he finally engages in combat, he still uses his superior speed, skill, and gadgetry to dispatch goons and keep others at bay. At most he gets jumped by 3 people. The only guns that still work are measly side arms that can’t penetrate his cowl and gauntlets.
Vi and Jayce vs the chemtanks is such a good flyswatting scene because it goes from the enforcers fly swatting the workers, the chemtanks flyswatting the enforcers, and then Vi and Jayce (a character with no fight experience) fly swats the chemtanks, thus showing how insanely overpowering and dangerous Hextech is.
Tbh I think they should’ve used the scene to show Vi in her element while showing Jayce to be stumbling, although being more knowledgeable about his own weapon’s capabilities. Still good fight overall though
I would say the big thing worth discussing that didn't show up in this video is the characterization options for the loser of the fight. I don't mean the Naruto-style "let's find out what this guy's deal is in the last 2 seconds before he dies" moment, but rather the flyswattings where characters are left alive. You mention it, kinda, with the joke about "learning more about Quill," but there are a lot of fights - particularly if the one who loses is the protagonist - where a flyswatting is a chance to learn how our character deals with failure, fear, or pain.
I think it might actually be one of the best David vs Goliaths I’ve ever seen, because not only does the Goliath, Ushijima, not feel weaker as the game goes on, he only gets stronger and stronger, to the point where at the end he’s one of the best depictions of a realistic character feeling genuinely superhuman. He outshines the entire rest of the cast by such a huge margin and yet because the context of the “fight” is a team sport, he’s still beatable. And they don’t even take the easy way out of having him be strong but his team be weak, the rest of his team still all feel realistically strong, but it somehow still doesn’t feel unrealistic when they lose. There’s some alchemy there, and I do feel some slight fudging to make sure everything works, but it’s completely unnoticeable unless you overanalyse it to a completely ridiculous degree.
Not mentioned with the Gojo vs Jogo fight is that exposition fits into the actual mechanics of JJK's power system. The Binding Vow. Giving up something in return for an upgrade in your technique. A sorceror explaining to their opponent about how their power works gives up the element of surprise, allowing the opponent possibly finding a work around but boosting that power's effectiveness in return.
Idk if this would count as a toss up or a david-goliath but the Tanjiro vs Rui fight would be great imo. I love when fights show the conviction of the "david" in that tanjiro was willing to decapitate rui even if hed be slashed to ribbons. If not this fight itd be cool for you to include a fight in which the "david" has overwhelming conviction, that shit gets me every time. Love the vids man keep it up
I agree so much with your take on how viewers want to see a showcasing of the hero's strength, not of the opponents' incompetence. That's why I often find the 'hero VS group of thugs' boring most of the time, but I hadn't been able to put it into words. Omg. Such a great video
I think Saitama's fight was interesting because you see that moment where he's caught off guard and you wonder for a moment if he's finally going to be challenged. He keeps hoping to be challenged and so does the audience.
Great videos. Seems like Kill Bill has a tone of excellent examples of these different types of fights. I think it does what you're talking about quite well. I really thought about it thinking about how the sword fight against the gang is an example of somehow having a fight against a huge number not just fall into the 'they line up and fight one at a time' trope. So for David v. Goliath I might say that The Bride vs. Budd. Maybe it's not enough of a 'fight scene' but we've seen her absolutely mow down everyone in her path, and then she is going after this out of shape has been, who uses his apparent weakness to hit her with a shotgun blast. Very tactical in context.
I’ve been loving your videos I’ve been here for about 3 weeks and you make some of my favourite videos I love watching people analyze movies characters and genres
This was really great! My only thought is it felt more like you were mainly talking about various fights in the context of your graph. I think you’ve got some great views and insights, would love an even deeper breakdown of things done right vs wrong, and ACTUALLY how a fight of this type can be crafted successfully.
I love the fight scene in Frieren: Beyond Journey's End, Frieren vs Aurora, where there was a hint that Frieren is OP, but you cannot be sure until the reveal of the backstory. The fight scene is, I think, a great example of fly-swatting.
Another great couple of David v Goliath fights have to be Spider-Man vs The Sinister Six from The Spectacular Spider-Man S1E11 and S2E3. Both of them are quite different and also showcase a great use of strategy against stronger opponents, or characterize the growing effects of the black suit.
One thing to make fights more interesting is alternative objectives. e.g. Gon doesn't need to defeat Hisoka, he just needs to take his badge/land a good punch A fight can be interesting if each party has a different victory condition.
@@Squampopulous Also, some things you didn't talk about with Boros: At the end of the first ep saitama has a dream where he fights opponents that can actually fight him, and there's a moment where we see his stylised heartbeat to show his excitement. Just before Boros' final attack, we see a colour-inverted version of the same heartbeat from Boros. Saitama fought Boros like he did in order to give meaning to his life, because he related to his boredom. Their characters have strong parallels, and it's more thematic than most people think.
Speaking of Hunter X Hunter and alternative objectives, the fly swatting fight between Gon and Hanzo is interesting for exactly this reason. Here, the fly actually wins, because he completes his objective, while the fly swatter doesn't.
One of my favorite fly swatting fights is Red vs Blue's Agent texas vs York, Wyoming and Maine. There are quite some interesting details in the fight that show us more about Texas and also York. It was shown already that Agent Texas was the goat, she already had 2 fly swatting fights where she performed really good, but this time, we get to see that even against top tier agents, she can dispatch them pretty easily (even though York was trying to get Wyoming and Maine to work together and they refused to do so). We see yet again during the bo staff fight round, hand to hand round, and also gun fight round that she mops the floor with them, with most of the time showing off, and i think it is a good detail from the animator that she tries to do these tricks and being cool because some time after that, it'll make sense why she is always depicted like that. Anyways, we see York more into York's personality as someone that makes jokes and satirizes most situations, no matter how hard they get. We get to a a certain gunfight round where Wyoming and Maine are given live rounds and grenades instead of non-lethal ammo, and they go straight to try to kill Texas despite being in a practice session. York gets fed uo with this situation as he didn't know why was it happening, so he tries to help Texas, even though it was the first time he met her. We see that York tried to do the right thing even if it means that he has to betray his teammates. On the other hand Texas reacts to this by saying "I don't need your help, never abandon your team", even though she was dealing with 2 top tier agents that were actively trying to kill her, which shows how she values loyalty (despite that she always tries to do things on her own) above everything, or maybe not, but that's a spoiler. And yeah, she rejects York's help and even gets to beat his ass in one of her outburst of rage when she got shot in the shoulder by Wyoming. At the end of the fight, Maine accidentally throws a grenade to York, he couldn't react to it because he was stunned after getting hit by a huge block of concrete. How he survives the grenade? Texas started shooting York with the non-lethal rounds (which on impact it creates like a pink mass that blocks the movement of the armor, so yeah it was used to reduce the impact York would receive), and this also shows that, despite Texas valuing so much loyalty, she is not a senseless murderer and wants to do the right thing. And these traits have a big impact later on and explains why everything turned out to be the way it was (i forgot to tell that the fight took place way earlier than the current events of the show)
I think you should probably add another category called eye candy as in fights that aren’t technically that important to the story but are still a welcomed addition due to showcasing cool stuff within a series
@@junova7503 A lot of art that is not made by self-proclaimed artists who want to convey a "deep meaning" is to just look cool, or nice. You don't exactly look at a painting of a landscape and say "ahh yes, I love the darkness of the shadows alluding to the darkness of the artist's heart." That isn't to say that art with intention is bad, in fact, I love art that has hidden meanings for me to uncover, but not all art needs to have a purpose.
@@TotallyTally Art is a means of communication, an expression of ideas and emotions given form. A painting of a landscape, to use your own example, serves to capture a view from the perspective, or the mind, of the artist, and thus communicate with the viewer. A fight scene is a part of a story, which, as art, is intended to communicate with the viewer. A pointless section of the story is like a pointless section of a painting, it should not exist as it serves to distract from and hinder the expression that is art. To put it simply, a pointless scene in a story is not "art", it is a detriment to the art otherwise present.
You claim to love art yet claim "Not all art needs to have a purpose". I implore you to read these two quotes by artists: "If your art doesn't irritate people, you aren't doing your job." - John Cage "Art Should Comfort the Disturbed and Disturb the Comfortable." - Cesar A. Cruz
What would have been cool is if Thanos had fought and learned his abilities along the way. It'll be similar to how a Mega Man level is designed where something new is introduced, then something else introduced, and then finally an a-ha moment where Thanos uses both new abilities at once to survive or finish a fight. A purple fireball later followed by a wave of bats would not only justify but characterize the purple wave attack not appearing earlier.
Id love to see an analysis of commander erwin, not just that final fight (ofc that last one) but more importantly to me, the one where they charge titans and erwin gets his arm chomped off, that was the scene that sold me on his character, and his dedication to the cause. That his character is entirely about the cause, about militant action, and about the fierce determination for humanity to survive.
ive been subscribed since the first video i watch from this channel and I just realised you have less then 100k subs craziest hidden gem ive ever seen. keep up the great work.
A david vs goliath fight I like is Vetto the Despair vs the Black Bulls in Black Clover, the opponent is clearly stronger than everyone, and the one person who could stand a chance in a 1v1 is occupied, so they have to use their abilites together to win
Another example might be the Kenshin vs Shishio fight from Rurouni Kenshin Part III The Legend Ends (2014) but if that's not your cup of tea there's an excellent toss-up fight between Kenshin and Sojiro in Rurouni Kenshin Part II Kyoto Inferno (2014). Maybe it's something you can touch on in a later video?
5:00 The explaining bit caught my eye because Gege made jjk have a GREAT way around the cliché of characters explaining their techniques for no reason. In jjk universe, you can make a binding vow that can make your technique output stronger if you explain how it works.
The Bride vs. The Crazy 88 (from Kill Bill Vol. 1) needed to be mentioned here. It offers great characterization, mood-setting, and exposition. There was even a miniboss and boss fight. Tarantino basically checked every single box of every single trope related to this kind of fight.
Really cool as always. This kind of videos always makes me think about fight scenes in the fiction pieces i like, and one of the best examples of fly swatting is gotta be most fights in re: zero. They never fail to showcase the characters, even tho you'll always know who will win. Especially with the new season airing fully packed with fight scenes.
Great video, I really like how you clarified your point about powerscaling, I had the same questions as that commenter did. About the one-thug-at-a-time problem, I wonder what you think of the Madness Combat animations, I think they do have that problem quite often (the 5.5 episode is most notable for this in my opinion), but the sheer speed of the fight makes it believable most of the time. Also the characterization is quite lackluster? Though it does get better at the newer episodes. Anyway I just can't stop but enjoy the animations and I wanted to hear your opinion on it (even if it's a negative one).
Honestly if anything I was a little disappointed with MC12 because we watched Sanford get completely decimated and exhausted in 11, and now all of a sudden he's mostly back to being a badass killing machine again.
My personal favourite approach is the One Punch Man "matter of course" flyswatting. Character is in the middle of doing something, gets interrupted or attacked, swats away the attacker and goes back to what they were doing without breaking their train of thought. Rather like swatting a literal fly while dining outside and holding a conversation. One might remark on being annoyed at the fly, but it doesn't turn into an actual fight.
I feel like Fairy Tail would have some David vs Goliath done wrong. Example, when Natsu is that strong where his mere flames can melt stone, where he can evaporate an entire lake, but then next season it feels like his been nerfed. like that OP video game weapon you’ve loved using for its destructive tendencies and now it feels like it’s shooting out Cotten candy.
Your videos are great, love watching them. I highly recommend an anime movie called Sword of the Stranger for the world cup video you plan on making. The final fight is probably my favorite of any movie.
Cool video essays about cool stuff bro :) I also wonder if your take on Attack on Titan was changed by its ending? Furthermore, I think a video essay of yours on unsatisfying endings would be great, and would fit the bill (BNHA, JJK, SNK, GOT, etc) and your channel. It would also be great if your videos were longer, even if you just voice over more with fewer edits, I think long form content would benefit you even more.
glad you enjoy :) i have a video about abrupt endings on my channel. i think AOT had a good ending but i wish it was just a little more fleshed out. and yea, once school wraps up i plan on making even longer videos
I think I saw one of your videos some weeks ago and didn't feel like it added anything to the scenes you commented but now your analyses are really pertinent and for any beginner writer are strong advice, so keep up the good work and keep improving mate you're doing tremendous work!
I know we’re talking purely films here however for future David vs Goliath fights I feel any fights from recent Fromsoft games fall under this category. Take Elden ring for example. These fights for me are always rememberable as you a small fry solider of no renown challenge the very gods and lords who govern life itself to claim the right to rule for yourself. Each boss you fight lore wise severely outclasses you in every conceivable way (some wielding death itself) You only win each fight based on strategy, learning your opponents move set and gathering the right equipment for battle. Again I know this games we’re talking about but I love your breakdown of fights and wanted to share my thoughts!
Here's my opinion on someone who loves to do realistic fights. If you have one of those 10 versus 1 situation or something along those lines the best thing you can do is have your character get overwhelmed (don't have each bad guy fight one by one its really poor writing), hit, and maybe even seriously injured but still win. Make them win NOT because of their pure strength or firepower alone but also tactics, perhaps using the bodies of others to block bullets using make shift weapons (such as smashing a plate over someones head) Also look into realistic self defence, such as a two on one where someone has you in a strong head lock and the other is punching you from the front. There's a lot of possibilities to show you ingenious, quick thinking and scary your character is by making them look weak to the opposition and absolutely clear the floor with them, while still coming out slightly scathed. Furthermore, for fights where it is a 2v1 or 1v1, you can use this to really dive deep in the fly swatters emotions and behaviour. In my own film a samurai and an elite soldier (similar to an SAS soldier) are fighting, our fly swatter (the SAS soldier) begins to mock our samurai by 1) taking another dead samurai's blade, 2) dragging it across the ground and blunting it deliberately, 3) not using any special techniques or any movement styles at all, playing really foul such as using it more like a cane and just throwing a storm of really poor form but powerful blows, 4) using kicks, punches, headbutts etc to win the fight. He's pretty much mocking our main characters "honour" as a samurai. You can really show the power of some characters and give some very good character development in fly swatting fights while not letting it be this really boring fight. Oh and on a side note PLEASEEEEEEE if you're going to do a fly swatting villain dont do an obvious the villain delays firing a weapon or something so the heroes have time to save them. Honest to God the best thing you can do if you're willing, is kill the character. Straight up. My favourite representation of this in my own film is that one of our main characters are captured, he's doing the old "I wont tell you anything" and our villain plain and simply says "I dont need anything" and kills them, no reviving, no delaying, one of our big characters dies then and there which helps add suspense to fight scenes because they could die and we see the scale of our villain's cruelty But that's just my take lol ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@Squampopulous Somethin ive been working on for about 8 years lol. Would love to talk about how to make good and unique power systems because thats something I dont see a lot in these "writing tip" videos, so definitely look into doing one of those
The thing is, coordinating a many vs one fight is _hard._ And I don't just mean that in a "it's hard for a choreographer" way, I mean it's _hard to coordinate a large group (especially of weak/unskilled/untrained people) against one person._
@@somdudewillson I'd agree with that, but when taking things into account you can easily make them stupid enough to jump your character all at once and have them figure out a way to take them on one by one while still getting hurt, such as people he "knocked out" (or so we believe) getting back up and holding / hitting / stabbing or whatever to them
I'm a little disappointed that the edgerunners finale didn't get brought up as it's one of (if not the number 1) my favorite fly swatting fights. Especially with how it characterizes not only David and Smasher, but the entire city as a whole.
One of my favorite flyswatting scenes is madara vs the allied shinobi forces from naruto. We don't technically learn anything new about him since the series has been gassing him up the whole series, but this is our first time actually seeing him and it's a bombastic introduction that tells us one thing, "they weren't lying, this dude is a threat." It also helps that this fight is a treat for the eyes
Dunno why, but it was mainly common sense to me. Good to know that i can make such things interesting. Just feeling relieved that the vector i was going was actually right.
You are SUCH a good RU-vidr! I am currently writing a novella and knowing these things helps a lot! The way you explain things is very good and interesting, and your voice is easy to listen to. You make really amazing, high-quality content! Thanks for making these videos, :D
Great video! I have one criticism however. The way you described One Punch Man makes it sound like the entire series is about Fly Swatting, but that’s only true when Saitama is on-screen, which isn’t always the case. There are plenty of fights without him, especially in season 2. These fights are still Fly Swatting sometimes, but not always. For example, I can think of 2 instances of World Cups right off the top of my head: the S-class heroes vs the aliens at the end of season 1, and Garou vs the A and B class heroes at the end of season 2, with the latter being one of my favorite fight scenes of all time.
Old boy being mentioned as a bad fight was something i didn't expect at all. The fight was never intended to be a great fight, where Odaesu can show off his skills. The movie is about him and the antagonists crazy revenge fantasy. Odaesu just did some work out in a room he was captured and locked in for 15 years without any fighting skills. The Hallway where the fight mentioned takes place in was not only very narrow but also wet, and you can even see the thugs slipping on the floor or missing hits due to space and slipping, same with Odesu. On top of that, noone won the fight. Odaesu just managed to get out there alive with how he positioned himself, since noone really wanted to continue to battle as Odaesu is clearly insane, unpredictable and managed to get through the mass of people with a knife stuck in his back. Its one of the best fight scenes in a "realistic" movie for the whole choreography being in one single shot, where the fight in itself is cohesive (in comparison he could have used the Old Boy Remake fight scene as a bad example instead), and realistically not a single person would have been able to get out of Odaesus situation alive. So its more of a David vs. Goliath with Goliath being the group of thugs. Before the fight started, Odaesu telling them the Bloodtype of the guy he tortured is a big characterization point. Him being willing to somehow get through this group, even with a knife stuck in his back, shows how determined he is with his revenge. Its not a big flashy fight, it's intentionally a sloppy uncoordinated mess, and it captures that really well, especially by comparison of the difference in determination of the group of thugs and Odaesu.
As he said, it's both good and bad. It's a great spectacle, and it's close enough to realism that a lot of people buy it, but there's just so many of them within a few steps of the protagonist(armed with a short, blunt weapon) that it doesn't actually work if you think about it. It broke my immersion, and while I know my bar for realism is higher than most, I'm definitely not alone in this. I think if he'd had a sword or long stick that might have improved it a lot, alternatively if the cinematography had hidden just how surrounded he was.
@@korganrocks3995 Yeah, although i just have to disagree with it being good AND bad; I see its more a flaw in the framework he uses to analyze the fights. Although i think its a great tool to use for analyzing battles, it leaves out unrationallity, unpredictabillity and imperfect actors. I would need to watch the fight scene alone in close detail to find the part you mention (thugs few steps from protagonist which are not hitting); but in such a closed space those people risk hitting fellow thugs or risk getting hit by them. Therefor i dont think it breaks immersion. Yeah IF they where 100%ly determined to just kill him, yeah he would have no chance. They could risk self injury and just end it. Fight scenes in movies in general never are realistic. In reality fights just dont look pleasing, people just end up on the ground and try to do as much damage as possible by stabbing for instance, or they end up grappling. But unpredictable grappling wont look good in movies. Therefore straight up realism and believability isnt something i would rank very high as a measurement for a fight scene, aslong as there are no extreme cases of just acting or choreography mistakes (like acting as like taking a hit when the other actor forgot to hit a punch). Real fights with high competence would look like MMA fights basically. So Somewhere the writer needs to include fictional liberties even when trying to write a realistic fight. As in Kung-fu and one Badass actor destroying a group of people looks cool, but that not realistic. And I dont see a way to choreograph an unpredictable and sloppy fight scene intentionally and pull it of better than this. So in conclusion I would say if the movie is primarily about fighting then yeah in this framework you could argue to make fights more of a spectacle. But this misses the point here. Especially 1v1 fights when a group is involved dont make sense if the intention is to showcase a characters strength or to make a fight pleasing. Therefor the context of the fight itself and the intention of the writer needs to be looked at too. So the Framework he uses is definitely good for a lot of genres, and especially for Anime and pure action movies.
@@zephiask1758 The trope of a group of enemies attacking a lone fighter one at a time is something modern audiences are more sensitive to than a few decades ago, so you can't get away with it as easily now. Whether things are realistic are less important than if they seem realistic to the average viewer. If you're goon nr 13 and watch some mysterious dude dispatch half a dozen of your fellow goons with ease, you'd either try to organise a simultaneous charge or get the hell outta there, you wouldn't wait until he's taken out another half dozen and then attack him as if you had any greater chance than the previous dozen mediocre fighters in a 1v1. It works in something like Kill Bill, because by that point the movie has made it very clear that realism isn't on the menu, so just sit back and enjoy the ridiculous spectacle, but in a movie which so far has been fairly realistic, it'd break my immersion. Part of my problem might come from having worked with kids: even kindergarteners realise quite quickly that they don't stand a chance 1v1 whether it's soccer, wrestling or whatever, so they always end up swarming you and winning, so to me it seems unrealistic that adults wouldn't come to the same conclusion.
I think that the worst "one thug at a time" flyswatting fight scenes are those where the weaker side is clearly made to be uncoordinated and clumsy just to lose. But when the stronger side wins through sheer skill and power, I don’t mind if their abilities are overpowered. It still makes for an entertaining fight.
While we’re on the topic of Gojo fly swatting we gotta give Sukuna his dues. 1) Sukuna vs Finger barrer: Sukuna not only showcases how far above he is from the avg SPECIAL GRADE(The highest rank in the show), but he also shows us an open domain for the first time although we don’t really learn about it till Shibuya. 2) Sukuna vs Megumi: This is more of a characterization for Megumi as Sukuna points out Megumi’s immense potential. But we also get a glimpse of Sukuna’s battle IQ. 3) Sukuna vs Mahito: Didn’t even last 1 min, bro just sliced him & told him to fuck off. Why you may ask? Cuz Mahito ACCIDENTALLY touched his soul, & Sukuna knew it was accidental. This shows us how highly Sukuna regards himself & that he doesn’t always play with his food Finally, Sukuna vs Jogo: Jogo sweated his balls off & summoned a bloody meteor! Just for Sukuna to sit on it & cook him with his own move😭 But it’s actually after the fight where we get huge characterization for both parties. For Jogo, it’s his deepest desire to simply be human. For Sukuna, it’s the revelation that he can treat others with respect & honor them but ONLY if they’re strong. Then after his speech, Sukuna looks at Jogo’s corpse with an empty expression that contrasts his mood whilst he was chatting with Jogo. The immediate emptiness Sukuna feels once his playtime is over displays his hedonistic & meaningless existence. Which begged the question, “This guy may not be just pure chaos & evil?” Now we know the answer. Imma be honest JJK has such great fights for every category. Truly a great battle shonen
I’m gonna have to hard disagree on the Oldboy hallway fight. We see before the fight starts that the hallway can only fit a few people across, and so we’re given a reason why they can’t all just surround him easily unless they back him against a wall, which is just what happens. Then, when they think he might be dead they back off, not because they’re incompetent or because they feel bad, but because the main antagonist doesn’t want him dead. Also, we see in the performances as the fight goes on that the thugs become progressively more scared of him as it goes on, as they’re all just there because it’s their job and it’s not worth the risk of serious injury to fight this guy that no one of them could beat. The scene both justifies the one or two flies thing and the lack of viscousness in the enemies he fights, plus it’s just an incredibly technically impressive shot and choreographed scene, so I really don’t see anything to complain about in it.
