Small tip: When in the midi editor (it has to be in focus), you can hit the "a" key to summon the automation window on the bottom. Upon clicking inside this window, you can cycle through your automation parameters (that you have already recorded) by using the shortcut "cmd+y".
DK: “So this is a little piece I’ve composed. It’s very simple and pretty short.” Me: it’s beautiful and better than anything I have ever written for strings. From others I might be depressed, but from you, you just inspire. Thanks for sharing with us!
Hi Dan, thanks for the video.. A little left field, but have you worked in Atmos at all? I'd be interested in hearing if you have any thoughts or experiences..
I did similar experiments and noticed harsch combfilter effects if not varying the mic-angle and changing bows and changing violins and recording speed. Ended up using five different violins and three bows etc managing to make 60 overdubs. Cello was a failure because mic angle matters less with low frequences.
Hi Dan, you changed not tempo but only pitch using Varispeed, didnt you? and for playing violin tracks you need to transpose the notes you played compare to original midi tracks. correct?
Back in the 2” tape days, I used to use that trick on vocals to get three singers to sound like a small choir. I still use a variant of it in Pro Tools sometimes to allow me to use my tenor voice to mock up a bass part. Logic appears to make it much easier, though. With a tape machine, you have to do the math. In PT, you have to use Elastic on each track, which is glitchy. Logic, naturally, you type the amount and go. Makes me want to get a Mac. Nice job! Now, if only I could rewind my life 55 years and take up viola.
Being able to record the Viola like that with varispeed gives you a huge advantage over non string playing mock up composers! Also now wishing I could play at least one bowed string instrument without sounding like a dying cat! I actually preferred the sound of your strings over the Spitfire ones, even before you’d placed them in the mix! Theres a tangible realness to them that gives them the edge over the software. Those strings definitely sounded different enough to work as well! Theres similar techniques in rock and metal, where electric guitars would be recorded on old reel to reels faster or slower than intended playback, for some added grainy dirt and distortion. Nine Inch Nails and Marilyn Mansons producers were big proponents of the technique. I’ve never used varispeed in logic before, and I’ve never heard of anyone using this kind of concept to make multiple recordings of the same instrument sound suitably different from one another. Is this technique in the context you’re using it something you have come across online, or something you’ve come up with yourself? I’d love to read up as much as I could on it. I know it sounds like hyperbowl, but this is one of the most exciting production tricks I’ve come across online in a really really long time! 100% going to be trying this on my own live instrument recordings as soon as I get the chance! ...Also wondering how this technique would fare on brass and reed instruments?!
Thanks for your kind comments! Glad you enjoyed the film. I haven’t seen anything about this before but I’m sure I can’t be the first to have done it. I asked around on Twitter and it was mostly met with silence or “sounds cool, let me know if it works”
Hi Sam, I think I can slightly answer some bits of your question... For brass - check out Seb Skelly, and this video of how he pitch shifts brass ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-9sDjrnE5XGc.html He makes it work really well! I'm an oboist, and in my experience, the more complex waveforms and harmonics of wind instruments don't take as well to being shifted around. I have been known to drop things by an octave to create a faked bassoon, and depending how well it's hidden in the mix it can work ok. Saxophones seem to work alright. Have a look at this film by Christian too - I think the same applies here, and when I've tried to shift things majorly up (eg a tenor sax up and octave into a sop sax), it's far less convincing. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-YbbBGYKucHY.html I'd be interested to hear from a string player about how far they can pitch up before it starts to sound fake - from a winds point of view it's not very far at all! Hope this helps a bit?
@@DanKeenMusic You’re welcome Dan. Sorry it took me so long to start watching your videos, the ones I’ve watched have all been great so far! You’re probably right, theres nothing new under the sun after all, but still to come up with a production concept like that on your own back is quite remarkable. I’ve been mulling over a passion project I’ve wanted to do for a number of years, but so many resource issues and technical problems are between me and it actually being feasible. I think this technique and the context, if it works for me, should get me significantly closer to making that a reality, so a huge thank you for sharing!
@@wesleywilson5009 Hey Wesley, thanks for those links! I’ve seen the Christian video before. The other one was new to me though -I used to use the same trick pitching guitars down with that same plugin, to get a fake bass sound years ago. Worked well enough that in a mix, it was ...mostly unnoticeable, unless you were an actual bass player, and it definitely wasn’t as good as the real thing, but I got away with it more times than I should probably admit. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe theres a difference between real time pitch/formant plugins and playing back audio at different speeds? I’m sure I’ve read or seen something somewhere on the physical/mechanical process of pitching being different to audio being played back faster or slower, as pitch plugins can be used in real time, and slowing down or speeding up an audio recording isn’t something thats possible with realtime recording- in any playable way I mean. Hence why Dan has to play the parts in at different speeds. Say you play 1 sustained note on your instrument, and you had a pitch plugin that was slowing down the audio in real time, the pitch plugin would then have to carry on sustaining, long after you finished sustaining that note. Obviously real time pitch plugins don’t do that. Or at least, I think thats all right. What Dan did sounded a lot lot closer in realism than anything I’ve managed using pitch plugins. I could easily be wrong though (I often am), and maybe theres just something in the nature of bowed strings that suits these particular production techniques more?
@@samshrimpton407 To be honest, I'm not knowledgable enough to comment with confidence, but I think you're correct there. Dan has in essence stretched out the waveform, slowing the playback and hence dropping the pitch. I've no idea how the algorithm of the vocal transformer works, but I believe that the pitch control in this plugin only effects the fundamental frequency, and the formant corrects for the harmonics? How it actually goes about the pitch shift (a waveform analyses in a similar way to varispeed or something completely digital?) I don't know! I'll look into it! RE waveforms - this might be of interest? we.tl/t-euNYaELRpL
If i earn enough with my music to buy such 200$ finesse plug in like the virtual sound stage I am possibly not searching for an explanation on how to improve the mock up ;) I watch all these content from Spitfire people and Co. with good will, but still skeptical about videos with too much external plug ins showing things Logic Pro can do alone. For example, setting the multi sampler correctly will allow you to quite any sound on the strings. If you need some special articulation, you can record a new sample from the internet or from the violinf of a friend. The virtual sound of 200$ stage looks awesome, but you can use Logic surround as well, and set different reverbs for each track. The Varispeed technique is always very good to remember, however here your music is already slow my dear ;) But is a very good thing to remember regarding automation; it will allow you to do fine automation with the mouse or track pad, perfect for vibrato. Mixing the midi with a real audio from viola is also a great idea. And some plug-ins like this especial reverb are good to know even when not buying them, because then you can maybe imitate it as well, using other techniques.
I think everyone should always be looking to improve their mock-ups, especially if they’ve only earned $200 from music. All plugins are just tools, but there are many out there that go further than Logic’s stock plugins, including VSS - it’s not a reverb, it has many functions that help spatialise sounds without harsh reflections. By “recording a new sample from the internet or from the violin of a friend”, you’re relying on the hard work of someone else anyway, so why dismiss the efforts of plug-in developers for creating high quality tools? I’d suggest too that violinist friend probably isn’t still playing a beginner violin but has invested in a quality instrument
@@DanKeenMusic I think no one dismisses most of the famously quoted plug ins , but many people can not afford it still before they do quality work with built in plug ins, and would like to know the alternative way .
Great job,great content, so hard to find good content on RU-vid so thank you very much 🔥 Can you make video with piano (eq,reverb and mixing with strings) ?
hey dan loved the video. I was wondering if you can do a video on orchestrating and how to make mock-ups that have orchestral “bursts” like star wars batman dark knight etc. Thanks stay safe.
As a not-logic user (Reaper fam here); what is varispeed? As a musician and producer; I love this video and also goddamned I need to learn to play bowed instruments.
Great video for a noob like me, just a quick question about the Virtual Sound Stage: if I understand correctly it pans the instruments as if they are on that location on stage, so why pan them before using the plug-in? Great job as always! Keep ‘em coming! 😀
This is amazing. I do this all the time when it’s just me and I want to get a full sounding “choir effect”! (Quick tip: Record at a low varispeed with falsetto and you get amazing sounding sopranos) But never thought to do this for an instrument! Great video Dan!
Thank you Dan. I actually think you sound better than the virtual violins. I wonder if you could perhaps double a bit more, mess a little more with the sound, and skip the virtual instrument entirely, or perhaps just subtly add them where needed, perhaps the cello? I'm not a violin player, but I am bit allergic to virtual violins when you here it is virtual, and at the same time loving it when it sounds good. But, next to the real thing it almost always pales in comparison. Cheers!
@@DanKeenMusic Have you tried tracking different 'players' on different mics to make them sounds a bit different? I can't say I have, but it was suggested to me once!
You seem kind. I'll tell you a secret, by using Townsend L22 microphone you can emulate different microphones digitally. This creates even more of an illusion of an orchestra when there's the characters of U87, AKG 414 & U47. By blending different mics you get different sounds out of violin. Also the mic has two capsules for stereo recording and can emulate two mics simultaneously. Godspeed my friend.
Thank you, cat on internet! I’ve heard AMAZING things about this mic. We’re fortunate to have most of its emulations at the studio - maybe I should trial and do a mic shootout??
@@DanKeenMusic That would be cool! Townsend can also emulate the distance & axis of the mic after recording which is mind blowing 🤠 (not paid to promote or anything just shameless fanboying)
Hello everyone! I am encountering a persistently irritating problem in Logic X and would like to see if someone here can help me. I have been trying to use my mod-wheel to pitch bend in logic's sampler and LABS. Back when I used logic 9, the value of the pitch bend was 2 whole-tones. I could pitch bend from say an F to an A. Now it only goes from an F to a G. So, for Logic X it only moves 1 whole step. How do I change the value of the pitch bend while using the mod wheel of my midi keyboard? I have looked on all forums and cannot find an answer. Please help! thanks in advance!
Hi John, I think your problem is with the sampler, not Logic. Like all MIDI, your pitch bend should have a value between 0 and 127 - you can't extend this range to extend how widely your pitches are bent. I don't think the LABS sampler can be changed without resampling the instrument, but in the Logic Sampler it's quite simple. In the Synth tab, click Details. Then, next to Pitch Bend Up, change the number to however many semitones (half steps) you want. If Pitch Bend Down is selected to Linked, you should now be able to bend up and down to the amount you just set. Hope that helps
Hi Dan, awesome video! I was wondering if you could tell me what camera and lens you use? Also, do you know if it has unlimited recorded time or is it called at 30 mins per video?
Best mike i have used for strings (i.e. mostly my violin) is a coles 4038 ribbon. Spaced about 40-50 cms above, from the body of the violin. Also works superbly with violas and cellos too, a little further away, but approx. perpendicular to the body of the instrument. Never tried it on a double bass. Re VArispeed... i tried, and got interesting results with a slightly different technique. When tracking the same violin part several times, it just sounds "false" somehow. Like a double tracking effect. What i do is varispeed by a variable small amount, less than 50 cents, for each overdub, and retune the violin on each pass. That way my vibrato is slightly different for each track, and the violin resonances are slightly different. Then when mixed to getherm, it doesn't sound like one violin(ist) multitracking. You get more of an ensemble sound that way. Do it enough times, and it really can sound like a group of different players all together. Would also be an idea to use two different violins, again to get different resonances and timbres. Try it, and see!
Perhaps moving the mics to different distances for differing purposed instruments, especially the 'cello', might help to give more sense of place to the recorded instruments. If I could play a string instrument, yea, I'd try it. :) Dammit.
Your piece is off to a nice start. Reminds me a bit of Barber’s Adagio for Strings. I don’t think I entirely understand what you did with Varispeed, but it’s quite innovative. Thank you.
So if I wanted to start playing a string instrument to do this, which one should I choose? I do have a musical background so in terms of theory there’s no problem I’d just have to learn the technique. Great video 🙌🏻
Very convincing sound! Bassoonist with 30 yrs of playing in professional orchestras, therefore with a greater appreciation of the viola than others might have 🤔 but the cello really worked for me.
Thank you for the varispeed tip. I had tried so many things for my string ensembles (I even have a viola with big fat strings tuned down an octave) but this is gold.
Hey Dan! Do you think this will turn out good when you do this with a cello? I want to incorporate a "quintet sound" into my compositions but stringwise i just play the cello and the double bass.
Ok... this is *really* interesting! By way of background... I grew up in a musical household and I later attended junior RAM studying the oboe. I started this year at Guildford school of Acting on their BA Theatre Production specialising in sound (both engineering and design). I always try to include something live in every mix and design to bring a sense of realism (CH's IN9 "How to make a string quartet sound massive" is a great watch on this topic), so if there is something melodic that I can play in on the oboe, of something warm and harmonic that I can play in on the cor anglais, I will. If not I'll see if I can get something in on the piano, but I'm a terrible pianist so that's a last resort! I think for the 5% of the time that you will spend putting something live in, it adds at least 30% 'more better' to your mix; be it something musical, or in a design case some kind of wildcard recording that is specific and has an emotive connection to the track in hand. So a question back to you, Dan. In my very limited experience with professional orchestral samples, I have found that strings and pianos give the most realistic reproduction of being a 'real' instrument, and woodwinds don't always sound as convincing (or at least require more effort on the engineer's part to make them sound convincing). My thinking is that wind instruments, and woodwinds more so than brass, have a much more complex waveform than instruments with strings. Any thoughts on working with winds? Or is it perhaps that as an oboist I know how it should 'feel' as well as sound, and maybe you think the same way about string samples as a viola player? I know that your octave-faked cello is much more convincing than my octave-faked bassoon so I'm presuming that the complex nature of these instruments just simply does not take well to being pitch shifted. I have adopted the Seb Skelly approach for playing instruments that I can't play hence far, but will definitely be experimenting with varispeed! Using the vocal transformer, I can definitely get something bassoon-like that can work deep in a mix, and it works ok on saxophones, but I've never gotten anything as successful as with strings or brass. I've found it to be much more successful pitching down than up though - along the lines of CH's speeding samples down video. I have made soprano saxophones out of tenors and it was just about acceptable in the situation! I would highly recommend giving this a watch (and a subscribe!): ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-9sDjrnE5XGc.html
Really nice. I tried out varispeed in Logic many years ago but it was glitchy at the time. It never really matched up to tape varispeed so I never gave it another thought. Having seen your video you’ve inspired me to give it another go on guitars!
That was absolutely nuts. When you first played back all those live takes I had no idea it would sound that good. I'm getting a viola and hopefully I can teach myself in an afternoon.
Another great video Dan... shifting time again. Marty McFly or Doctor Who...convinced you're a time lord! Cheers for sharing your wisdom and insights...
Hi Dan! I'm Glenn. I'm very pleased to meet you. Lovely work here. I'm a 30-year Digital Performer user and never could stand the editing in Logic, BUT I'm a chronic user of tape-deck pitch-wheels, and I horribly miss the ease of that functionality in all of my DAWs. Varispeed right in the main transport of Logic is going to make me take yet another look at that DAW.
@@kilgoretroutist Thanks for the info! I played with Reaper many versions ago but I'll definitely take another look. I support their effort and their mission.
You're the author of the soft strings spurs samples! All my congratulations, you did a excellent job, these sounds are in my patches library and I used them a lot. Realy inspiring, great great work. Regarding the delay I personnaly also use the old trick to send a short delay with no feed back to the main reverb in order to move the sound further back in the audio space.
@@DanKeenMusic i skipped over the recording your viola section not realizing that's where you used it. i thought it was something you were going to apply to the midi part.
