Not correct, you should never solder these lugs. Industry standard is to do a full crimp with high quality tools. This would never pass an inspection and is not code compliant.
Little critique, when you plunged the cable into the battery terminal at 3:47, you needed more heat once the cable bottomed out. Deal is the wire pulled the heat from the terminal and cooled the solder off too fast. Another way I know this is at the same time in the video, that wire should of went all the way into the terminal. Lastly the solder will flow out of the terminal if done properly. Recap = the solder cooled stopping your wire from going all the way down.
I knew I forgot to preheat the cable (sufficiently) when I was editing - I could see the splash but I had to leave it in since I was out of time (I used to follow a strict production schedule) and I was out of lugs besides so reshooting would have cost me another day. Sometimes filmmaking is about compromise. (Thanks for commenting!)
It's all good. Just plunge the cable while heat is applied. Then as you know with heat, the cable will sink down into the connector/terminal. They put a ton of solder in those battery terminals. Nice video sir.
Cool I thought I was seeing s*** on my welding leads I solder all the lugs with the quick connects as soon as they lose grip that's it they're gone I guess they could be soldered but if I need to change the lead then that's a little bit trouble
Interesting video. Canajun... the princess auto power fist stuff gave it away lol. I crimp. I had a Hydraulic Crimper and found it awkward and never crimped correctly, but then it had euro sizes, not AWG. I bought the AWG Iwiss manual crimper about the same length, no ratchet with cutter combo for not much $ on Amazon and love it. Awesome crimps, no loose dies and I find it easier to use. I gave up on marine terminals, they kept working loose. I always hated the "clamp" terminals for corrosion and water ingress to the cables causing corrosion. I used to solder decades ago, but now do only crimp for the vast majority of connections of this type now.
All my trucks have marine posts with soldered in ring terminals for 4 gauge wire. Never had a problem. Plan in doing this in my f250 off road rig as well
Wonderful video.I learned a lot and really liked it. But where in the world can I get those supplies? Evan a local professional electronic supply house did not have any tined cable. You said not to use the solder that is made for plumbing but you didn't say what the correct solder is called.Please give us some product names and sources.
Use double wall heat shrink with sealant inside, they make heat shrink tubing that includes a sealer or glue, it is the only type of heat shrink that can be considered " water proof " in my personal opinion, any soldered joint, should be cleaned with alcohol to remove left over flux as the flux itself will cause corrosion and failure of the connection. Brass battery clamp's are the best, they have the lowest " galvanic corrosion " rate when mixed with other metals, lead, copper, aluminum, tin etc... I guess no one ever told you about sweating the joint.... you have to keep applying heat as you solder and in some case's even after you have a good connection, so the convection currents can carry the solder all the way though the material as the material you add is usually much colder as someone else pointed out. this is not a " critique " of your work, this is only to pass on the knowledge i have accumulated over the years......
So I like this video, the cables are stripped too much but the idea of crimp and solder makes sense. Have you looked into battery slugs? They are designed pretty good. wouldn't need to crimp either!
My electrical upgrade on my truck (bigger Alt) 1/0 Awg welding wire. 3 wire ground, Side post termimal post removed And 3/8 course thread bolts added for extra ground add ons Lug hammer tool used Wires were pre measured without any wire exposure Between Lug And wiring case dabbed the outter edge of the lug with dielectric grease after connection. Shrink tubed.. 3 years in still no issues And preforms better than most cars in Canadian winters
great vid bro.....good tip on marine wire too..I inherited an 600850 ROTO CRIMP TOOL MFG: AMP TYCO ELECTRONICS and excited to use it ,,,,,it uses SOLISTRAND terminals and splices...rock on !!
After you cut off the proper amount of insulation, and crimp the terminal onto the cable, then you can clamp the terminal into your vice and start pulling on the insulation gripping tightly but just allowing your hands to slide down the cable a foot or two. This will actually pull the end of the insulation away from the terminal in order to be able to have room to solder it, and not burn the end of the insulation. After it has cooled down some, just attach the other end of the cable to something and do the same procedure in the reverse direction until the insulation butts up against the terminal. It makes a very tight professional joint, and looks great after the heat shrink. By the way, I have found that copper terminals will corrode quickly if around batteries. The plated ones last a whole lot longer.
You said tinned bolt cable can last 10 x longer than ordinary welding cable. I'm guessing the copper color one is plain welding cable? Why is that? Is the longer lasting one also more restrictive to flow? Also, where does ofc speaker cable fall in order to the list?
Ferguson 20 diesel been there a few times my self on harvest equipment to get thru the day... or week.. crap I should go see if I ever fixed that on the combine. Lmfao
What's your take on soldering without a crimp? Yes I know there's a little balancing act involved I've done it both ways. Depending on application and time constraints. Anyway my initial question 100% solder without a crimp, your opinion? Thanks
I create connections for extreme duty environments like salt water commercial vessels. I try to crimp and solder everything because it works and is durable. Engineers cannot disagree strongly enough because some book says crimp only.
@@repairs101 I agree. 13 years working on battery powered industrial equipment has taught me the right way to do terminal ends. If I don't have enough time to do it right the first time, how am I going to have enough time to do it a second time? As for solder only? Although a soldered connection has less resistance than the wire, if the circuit pulls a lot of current through the connection it can get hot, melt the solder, and come apart. Same if the solder didn't make a good connection when made. Crimp only? A newly crimped connection has more resistance than the wire itself. As time goes on it can corrode and resistance will increase. This is why the only proper connection is both crimped and soldered. Then sealed.
Wow great video. I wish i had this 5 years ago when i replaced the ground terminal on my Honda with one of those cheap temporary Motomaster terminals from CT thinking it was correctly done. Definitely bookmarking This!
This is a masterly, well done, and totally professional job of battery hookup wire making :) There seems to be a tremendous amount of controversy over crimping and shrink wrapping, or crimping AND soldering, then shrink wrapping (??) The argument I've heard against the soldering step is a soldered connection will raise the impedance of the copper wire, thus, producing heating and reduce overall efficiency. (??) I'd like to see a video test on making copper hookup wires for DC battery voltages where this is put to the test and cables made with and without soldering is tested for heating, impedance, and overall efficiency.
+Mark Job - Thanks for the comments. Mark. As far as masterly goes some viewers may disagree as I forgot to preheat the cable before sinking it into the terminal (3:44) causing a splash and an inferior bond. I know better but filmmaking and mechanic work are hard to do at the same time and still be good at both. As far as the tests go I'd be interested in seeing those results too but don't think I'm qualified to conduct an empirical study. I'm just a grunt.
+wackoguywatch if they arent soldering that does not mean best way. time is money to professionals, who may give other reasons to people why they arent taking the extra time to do something that may not matter so much in every application. then there is that job security thing. do auto manufacturers design every part of the car to be the best it could possibly be, when a car that lasted for 50 years would put them out of business? or battery cables that went bad in 5-6 years means profits at the dealer service center?
Soldered connections are not allowed in aviation, only crimp. If you are using it in a stationary, non vibration application, soldering would be acceptable.
I read on milspec that after you soldered something you should clean it with alcohol. I believe that would a be a counterword against everyone that says that you don't need to solder a crimped connection
I use acetone to clean excess flux after soldering. I'm not telling you what to do, just showing you what I do. My experience has led me to crimp and solder, even though engineers all say don't.
Engineers aren't trained to sell, that would be marketing. Engineers are more worried about possible future repairs and simplicity than trying to sell something.
Engineers are the bane of existence... they will over complicate something beyond belief just because... here is the thing if soldering was 99.5% as good as crimping... they will say "NO CAN'T SOLDER NO GOOD" because of that .5%... ALSO, it takes way more time to solder something than crimp it... might even not be able to automate the soldering part... so... lets all keep that in mind... My mil spec battery cables are not crimped can't be... one terminal has 2 wires going into 2 different holes in the terminal... with 0 indents...
Solder vs crimp is an age old controversy and there are lots of opinions and studies, but I prefer to think that if a crimp is done correctly the wire and the metal of the connector become homogeneous. If a connection is soldered and for some reason starts to heat up, then the integrity of the physical connection is compromised. The solder has a different electrical resistance and so therefore the electricity has a more difficult time going from wire to metal connection. Another thing to think about is that there are no soldered connections for the HV transmission lines, all the connections are mechanical… Just my 2 amps worth...
A properly installed battery shoe should always be crimped . High amperage is capable of raising the temperature of the joint high enough to melt solder .
Amazon now sells hexagon hydraulic crimpers with detachable jaws for 6ga. to 2-0 cable for $40.00 they produce 5 tons of crimping force " yes they are Chinese " mine have been working perfectly for 6 month's . the crimper comes in a plastic case and is about 14" long , this is far easier to use in the bilge of a boat. R. Walters Marine Electrician
Do they even make any tools in the US anymore? Doesn't matter. The Chinese now make better ones. I recently had a toolbox full of old US tools from the 40s and 50s stolen It made me sick. No one makes tools like that anymore. Cept maybe the Germans but they always were a bit better at engineering and quality than the US.
I found my Hydraulic supposedly 50 ton crimper worked horribly. I bought the Iwiss manual one - easier to use surprisingly and a *much* better crimp and with rotating die, no more dropping and finding dies. The handles are about the same length too.
With all the contradicting advise from the on-line experts you will now have enough ideas to do a video showing the current carrying capacity of soldered vs crimped joints. My personal non professional opinion is I do it just like you. Soldered joints may make the wire stiff near the solder, but they will work even if they get a little electrolyte on them and I've had a crimped only connection fail due to corrosion. If a soldered joint gets hot enough to melt solder due to current flow you are carrying too much current or the bolt connection next to the solder is overheating. Soldering joints doesn't raise their resistance.
You're really not supposed to solder battery terminals at all!!! the soldering creates a hard spot that cal lead to early fatigue, and solder'd terminals can fail earlier than just crimped due to resistance and overheating. check out ABYC on this. You've also stripped too much insulation. the insulation should butt up against the terminal to minimize the opportunity for corrosion.
Have you actually tested the resistance? All of the soldered connections I have made have less resistance than ones with a crimp connection. Just saying from my experience.
Horse1066 A crimp creates a gas-tight cold weld? Who are you kidding? And as far as Engineers go.. As someone who deals with them on a constant basis and has to fix all their screw up's, They are generally some of the dumbest and most arrogant people I have ever met.
Pierre Mitham If done properly, the benefits of soldering far out weigh the disadvantages you have mentioned. On the stripped wire side, applying a heat sink while tinning the cable prevents solder from wicking under the insulation. That way, only tinned cable goes into the termination leaving the rest flexible. IF you have access to the right crimping tools by all means crimp. Many of us do not. Mechanical connections are made better by adding highly conductive solder because solder fills the voids between conductor bundles in a large cable. The more contact area you have between conductor bundles the better.
Little critique on the hand soldering. Keep connector down and cable up. Keeps solder where it belongs, inside the connector. Keep the heat at the lug hole if at all possible. Finally use larger solder if you can. I always wire brush off the soldered connector and wipe with an oily shop rag. Again GREAT video sir!! Lots of proper advice here people.
Solder or crimp.... Argue, argue, argue..... Terminal ends are either made to crimp or solder, not both!!! Crimping a solder terminal can crack it... Thus ruining it Using a punch and hammer to crimp??? No... You are distorting and stretching the socket, causing uneven contact....and probably cracking it too. A good crimper will crimp evenly, much better contact. Just saying....only done it for about 50 years ..
A proper crimp is actually called a cold weld, much much more solid and trustworthy and longlasting then any solder. Solder introduces resistance to the wire, a proper crimping does not.
You never have to worry about low loads or voltage in big wires, but you will always worry about big load and high voltage in small wire, go big or stay home, do it right the first time, besides bigger cables have much less resistance.
also if you preheat the cable before putting it into the heated mess you will not get the spray effect and it will bond better, just not cool down that fast...
Márton Szabó Of course you're right and I know better too - running the camera can be quite a distraction. By the time I saw the footage it was too late - out of clamps and out of time. Thanks for commenting!
Jezz... could you possibly do this worse? Lugs are soldered or crimped. Never both. Nicking the conductor is absolutely not permitted. If you're going to crimp, use a crimper with the correct dye.
Crimping and soldering should never be done on the same connection. It sounds like belt and braces, but the reality is that a properly-made crimp is a cold weld so all you are doing is increasing the likelihood of the crimp becoming microscopically loose by heating it to soldering temps. You might never have an issue on something stationery like a solar panel installation, but if you do this on things that vibrate and move (i.e. any vehicle) then you are increasing the likelihood of it breaking over time. Crimp (with decent ratchet or hydraulic crimpers) OR solder.
Tracy Wilson someone said thing about the Navy used to crimp and solder and now they only crimp... that's probably because of the requirement to use lead free solder which is creating a whole new problem on its own of tin whiskering.
batvette Best advise for tin whiskers (I leaned them as tin fingers), don't solder with 60/40. I remember asking my instructor why slapping on a (80s) TV could reset the pic and he said without hesitation, blame it on the missing lead. Darn microscopic crystals.
No soldering cables! Good crimping is best !copper is the best conductor not lead and tin, which are susceptible to heat! Buy a crimper ! Ask any engineer
Engineers are theorists. I have decades of practical experience as a Heavy Duty Mechanic. Every (salt water) Marine outfit I have worked for crimps and solders battery cables.
What have you got against solder? I've had to replace many crimped only connections with a properly crimped and soldered and sealed connection that never had a problem again.
@@johnwyman6331 Solder makes an excellent connection (when properly done) but soldering after crimping renders the crimping useless as the gas tight connection associated with crimping is lost due to expansion. Also, capillary action of the solder causes the first two inches of cable to go rigid which can be a problem. Use a proper hex type crimp tool and some heatshink over the lug for a professional adequate finish. Using a centre punch to crimp is a bad idea.
@@rogeronslow1498 I agree that using the proper crimping tool is highly important. I don't understand why you feel a crimped connection is gastite, or the importance of it being gastight. If it actually was gastite, then why can a larger, more viscous molecule (liquid solder) flow between the strands? If it being gastite was important, then wouldn't solder make it more gastight? I said I solder it, not over solder it so that it flows down the cable two inches. You claimed it has problems if soldered. Can you elaborate? From where have you gotten your information? In my experience replacing thousands of bad wiring connections, and at first having to replace them again until I figured out how necessary solder, proper crimping, and adhesive filled heat shrink was, I have yet to find a better way, though I am still willing to learn something new. But it has to have some good quality information behind it, not just some unknown guy's opinion on the internet.
@@johnwyman6331 I'm following the recommendations of the lug manufacturers such as Cembre. Soldering produces an excellent connection but the solder wicks up the cable. If this is not critical in the application then it's fine but often in high vibration environments the cable will gradually break where the wicking ends. If you heat a crimped connection significantly then the crimp is compromised.
Do what I did. Ebay for Military Spec battery lugs. A kit comes with two lugs and a black and red rubber protective covers. All super HD and both accept 2 cables ea. I paid around $20 w/ free shipping.
+cue108 - German engineer here! Wouldn't buy these cables. Soldered connections on a mechanically stressed joint is not a good idea. Especially on cables this size. The solder stiffens the cable, so the strains tend to break more easily. The only viable way here to establish connections like this, is crimping (according to DIN EN 60352-2).
Abcdefg Well, crimping only has a high connection resitance thus I prefer crimping for mechanical security and soldering for a lower connection resitance especially for low voltage high AMP connections. But when you can predict mechanical forces to the connection in its environment a soldered only connection is completely fine and there is no need to stress a DIN when knowing the environment of the connection. In higer voltage lower amps environment crimping only is best choice. A norm always tries to find a general formal appraoch. If one does not understand the domain very well, simply apply a DIN is best approach I think.
+cue108 - I don't think you are right about the resistance. Crimping (if done right) creates a gas-tight cold weld at the surface between the wire and the terminal. A proper crimp connection is completely tight and leaves no air-filled spaces behind. Therefore you have the best imaginable contact between the wire and the terminal. However, I don't know any research about this topic, therefore i cannot prove it. Maybe you're right...
+Abcdefg - So please explain how are these joints mechanically stressed. I don't know any science but in practise these cables are trouble free and the only stress applied is when you change the battery - once every 2 to 10 years. Never had a complaint about my battery cables and there are hundreds of vehicles and vessels out there with them in service.
This is the farmers way of making terminations!! It is not normal to lose a few strand of wire when stripping!!! Only use these techniques in a pinch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh fer fucks sake I've used "Temporary" terminal for the last 26 years without a problem, so I guess I'll just have to tell all my shit it's supposed to be breaking down.
they dont solder cables on aircraft ,,, and watching the fitting distort as its hit with a nail punch is painful , at 3.36 you can watch the cable not go home fully ,,, why bare more cable than there is room for in the fitting and leave a gap , why not just measure from the fitting , ah well . to each their own i guess.
@@alpinewhite probably because they're worried that the mechanic won't crimp it also. If the solder doesn't make a very good connection, then it will create a hotspot melt the solder and come apart.
That’s not the correct way to crimp cables and using a punch is substandard especially where vibrations will eventually loosen that crimps quality. It’s not usual to cut off copper strands this can have serious consequences. This video is irresponsible.
Solder battery wire terminals proper way, with powerful enough soldering iron like 200W 500W etc. Propane - butane torches are a disaster for these as solder does no wick into the strands properly.
the best way to do this is to solder first. then you do your crimp. it's a night and day difference compared to the way you do it. my way looks better then most cheap factory crap like yours
