How to Make Tangzhong Milk Bread without Kneading

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Tangzhong is a roux made of flour and liquid. Part of the total flour of a bread recipe is cooked with the liquid until it becomes thick. The cooking process gelatinizes the starch in the flour and makes it swell up and absorb much of the liquid be it water, milk, or anything else you decide to use. Cooking the flour also impacts the gluten forming proteins which cannot produce strong gluten after being heat treated.
Having weaker gluten and the ability to absorb and retain more liquid are great advantages in breadmaking. Breads made with tangzhong are lighter and fluffier while being able to stray that way for longer. It’s a simple technique with great impact.
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Опубликовано:

14 май 2024

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Комментарии : 117

@ChainBaker 2 месяца назад

📖 Find the written recipe in the link below the video. 🥨 Get early access to videos ⤵ ru-vid.com/show-UCzSKbqj9Z042HuJTQI9V8ugjoin 🌾 Buy me a bag of flour ⤵ www.ko-fi.com/chainbaker 🔪 Find all the things I use here ⤵ 🇺🇸 www.amazon.com/shop/ChainBaker 🇬🇧 www.amazon.co.uk/shop/ChainBaker 🍞 Share your bread pictures here ⤵ www.flickr.com/groups/chainbaker/ 🍞 Visit my friends at ⤵ www.breadbakingathome.com/

@haroldsmith8997 2 месяца назад

Thank you I am now a member

@ChainBaker 2 месяца назад

@haroldsmith8997 cheers, Harold! You now have access to all the Members Only videos. While they are in early access, you will find the corresponding written recipes here on my channel in the Community Tab. Once the videos go public you'll also be able to get the recipes on my website ✌️

@haroldsmith8997 2 месяца назад

Dear Chain Baker. I think you need to make a refrigerator magnet with Bakers percentages on it. I can’t find anything like it on Amazon etc. Might be a great merch as the young folks say. Harold

@waynecribbs8853 2 месяца назад

I make milk bread all of the time, but I'm blown away by your simplifications. Adding all of the liquid at once and then letting it hydrate overnight is interesting. I need to try this new method! Thanks Charlie

@Chris-ut6eq 2 месяца назад

No knead bread is a winner for me!

@termlimits6395 18 дней назад

Your presentations of experiments in baking have been so very helpful in determining the when and why of using any particular technique. I've recently used one of your Tangzhong techniques successfully. Coincidentally, RU-vid has been presenting me with several other baking channels offering suggestions on baking principles. Probably spurred, most likely, from my frequent visits to your channel. You should be pleased to know that a couple of them utilize your approach of introducing a technique and then discussing the variations of that technique as supported by their own experiments to validate that particular technique. They were helpful, but you are in a class by yourself.

@alexbowman7330 Месяц назад

I love seeing the updated version of the old recipes. The methods have evolved, but also the camera and audio work has been refined. All good stuff. As for any suggestions, I would still like to see you do a video on Native American frybread one of these days. You could include the yeasted version and a baking powder version. Just an idea. I know you're a busy man.

@Jeepy2-LoveToBake 2 месяца назад

Made this yesterday - Milk bread process was simple with no issues, rose nicely and baked up beautifully. I love the golden brown crust and the wonderful aroma while baking. It has such a wonderfully soft crumb and the crust has just enough firmness for perfect slicing. Buttering the pan gives it an extra special flavor. Sharing at the office for "Bread Sampling Day" (all five breads I have made in the past few days, plus the Blueberry Lemon and a final batch of Chocolate Caramel Biscuits). (#345) Photos have been posted.

@roger55es 2 дня назад

Amazing loaf made it with spelt & oatmeal without milk turned out fantastic Thank you for a super bake video.

@dugpuck Месяц назад

Convert them all. I have made about 10 of your recipes, and I will make many more of your no knead versions. No one make bread available to the masses better than you.

@gutschke 2 месяца назад

Another awesome recipe by my favorite baker. I love that there are now so many recipes that demonstrate how you convert between different techniques. That's a super important skill. Here are a few other suggestions for what I tend to change when I bake a new recipe. Instead of heating the tangzhong on the stove, I put it into the microwave for a minute. Fool proof, fast, easy, hands off, less clean up, and no worries about scorching (not that that's super likely to happen here anyway). I also drop it into an ice bath afterwards, and stir once or twice after a few minutes. That way, I don't need to wait for 3+ hours and can make my bread right away. Finally, I've gotten into the habit of always hydrating my yeast for a minute or two in about a spoonful of water. You don't need to do so for all yeast, but it can be a frustrating mistake with active dry yeast. Better safe than sorry. Doesn't do any harm if you do this with active dry yeast, but not technically needed

@ChainBaker 2 месяца назад

Great tips. Cheers! ✌️😎

@HellInAHandBasket45 2 месяца назад

Oh Man this looks good! Thank you for saying that about kneading! I have been experimenting with simplifying the process for regular bread for the family and have had good results with less kneading.

@kleineroteHex 2 месяца назад

I loved to knead my dough, watching Charlie, folding here and there is just fine now especially with my sourdough😊 I just let it ferment an extra day.

@CornbreadAndChopstix 2 месяца назад

Mmm thank you very much!! 🩷 🍞

@lmkmomo 2 месяца назад

Beautiful ❤❤

@cesarhans 2 месяца назад

I have to tell you, I have been baking since 2020 and I've been baking bread every week. I never made a bread so good, this technique is incredible and thank you very much for sharing. My family love it, and I can't thank you enough for this recipe. It has been 3 days that I bake the same bread and it's over in about half an hour. I did make an improvement, as you suggested I added water, something around 150 ml to 200 ml. Again, I never made a bread so good

@kleineroteHex 2 месяца назад

Must try as soon as I get home again😊

@Iggygonecatchen 2 месяца назад

Nice work..

@mia_1969 Месяц назад

I've recently started making breads again. When I saw "milk bread" on another site the recipe reminded me of this tangzhong and I came here to find it. This is now my next recipe to make on my Bread Day!! Thank you for making it easy ❤

@mattlevault5140 2 месяца назад

Awesome. My son's university graduation party is next weekend. I've had good luck with the milk bread buns in the past so I will make them again for grilled burgers and hotdogs. I have an industrial style mixer at home so kneading isn't a concern for me, but the no-knead recipes are winning me over. Keep converting the old stuff! All of it!

@Jeepy2-LoveToBake 2 месяца назад

So soft and fluffy and fantastic looking loaf!1 Printing this recipe NOW!!!! 🤩🤩🤩🤩

@raveG244 Месяц назад

This worked out very well. I got a fabulously soft loaf with the signature stringy texture. Thanks for the recipe. I was surprised by the amount of liquid that evaporated while cooking the roux, a tad under10%. And it didn't even come to a boil.

@antheeamorgan 2 месяца назад

Baked goods make me so happy 🥰 I've been saying for a long time that I need to try a Japanese milk bread, guess here it is my cue 🙃😉

@knottybead4871 2 месяца назад

I maybe crafty, but not yet in baking. Thankfully I have you to help me out.

@ChainBaker 2 месяца назад

😉

@Slangnegativ 2 месяца назад

Hey Chainbaker, I got this crazy idea the other day to do a loaf but instead of water use coffe. Used it hot so I guess I made a tangzhong coffe loaf. Never heard of or seen that before so I had to try it out. I actually thought it worked very well!

@ChainBaker 2 месяца назад

Interesting! I made a scald using hot sweet potato mash the other day. Turned out pretty well. There will be a video later :)

@s.adams239 2 месяца назад

Sounds interesting! How much coffee did you use? I'm just wondering how it will affect the pH level of the dough and that might affect the rise

@Slangnegativ 2 месяца назад

@@s.adams239 I think I'm too much of a novice for higher hydration so I keep it at 50 %. The strength I can't give exact measurement off sorry, I just went with the normal I would normally use in a french press (1l), would estimate 8-9 tablespoons. I had no problems whatsoever in this case with the rise. In fact it did rise better than a lot of my previous breads, but I think that's because of the spring warmth finally hitting my area.

@s.adams239 2 месяца назад

@@Slangnegativ ok, thanks, I'll try it out myself. Do you think the bread tastes good with savoury fillings like egg?

@Slangnegativ 2 месяца назад

@@s.adams239 Honestly I have a hard time imagining how it would affect the taste, I think it might be better without, because it was rich enough in its taste I think. But if you try it out, let me know how it went?

@antch0 2 месяца назад

Great recipe as always, I was aiming to do this kind of bread so that's spot on ! I'm a bit surprized you used the tangzhong method, I would think you would use yudane or simply scalding the flour as you did in your burger bun video 10 months ago. Any reason or updated thoughts on it nowadays ? Thank you for your work and keep it up 💪

@ChainBaker 2 месяца назад

I was just recreating my old tangzhong recipe. That's the only reason why 😎

@Egle992 2 месяца назад

Thank you for this recipe, I Will try It soon! Can I suggest you to try baking Mantovane? They are a lovely Italian bread, characterised by a low hydration and a typical shape. I love them paired with cold cuts! I think you would give this recipe a nice twist! Thank you

@ChainBaker 2 месяца назад

I'll ad it to my list :)

@bloodwolf7462 2 месяца назад

My wife recently became convinced to baking so another recipe I can give her without problem :D And yes still here waiting for more "Principles of Baking" series ;) P.S. After I tested countless times baking with 2 baking trays, stones and baking stone setup all breads I made became more "attractive" in terms of volume :D

@parsaahmadi3144 2 месяца назад

Hey Mr. Chain baker, can you test the effect of water hardness levels on bread dough? I’ve read that low TDS (total dissolved salts) waters from the range of 10-50 PPM can create doughs which are super sticky and limit fermentation. And 100-150 PPM is the sweet spot, and above 200 PPM creates a dough which is too stiff and hinders fermentation. I haven’t really seen any videos about this topic on RU-vid and I think it would be a great test since dough is pretty much half water. Would love to see that video and keep up the great work 😊.

@mikewurlitzer5217 2 месяца назад

I had all sorts of problems with my "Softened Water" with inconsistent results and some dough's that were closer to soup than dough. I ended up using bottled water and those issues disappeared. YMMV.

@ChainBaker 2 месяца назад

I'd need to bust out some beakers and a lab coat for that one 😄 I would not even know where to start 😅

@parsaahmadi3144 2 месяца назад

@@ChainBaker yea I agree it is very scientific 😅 but the effects it has on dough is crazyyyy and I think it would be a great video

@mikewurlitzer5217 2 месяца назад

@@parsaahmadi3144 I figured out my issues with my softened water [uses salt to soften] by noticing very poor results the 1st day after my softener went through it's cycle the previous evening, a few days later as the water became harder, the issues started to disappear. Then I shifted to bottled water and have not had the soupy dough problem return. As I measure everything by weight, there was no other reason other than the salt content in the softened water and the lack of minerals it may have removed.

@dugpuck 7 дней назад

Can you do a wholewheat tangzong bread. I love the white loaf, wonderful texture.

@ChainBaker 7 дней назад

www.chainbaker.com/wholegrain-loaf/

@corwinblack4072 2 месяца назад

Tangzhong, much like yudane increases overall possibility of how much liquid you can put in your dough. At 20% of total flour used for both, you can do up to 75% hydration of final loaf (or whatever you make). And it doesnt get sticky (much). Only exception is when you are using something like spelt flour (which I do a lot), then it does get a bit sticky. Im baking very similar recipe but with yudane on regular basis, best bread for making toasts or sandwiches I ever had. Considering yours is basically the same recipe, just with tangzhong (which allows skipping quite tedious manual labor that yudane requires), it will be equally great. Btw. both tangyzhong and yudane techniques allow increasing hydration of basically any dough, cause well, thats what starch does. Ive made pizza with it, pretty good, altho it obviously wont do hard crust. Also you can go crazy and make stuff like scones with it too (did that, multiple times, it has nice side effect that they stay in very good shape for very long time.. well, would if someone wouldnt eat them). Anyway, thanks for the recipe, thumbs up from me.

@mikewurlitzer5217 2 месяца назад

While I love both tangzhong and yudane, I'm flummoxed by your comment about "tedious manual labor that yudane requires". I just boil water, add it to the flour in the bowl which I will eventually use to make the dough [saves washing 1 additional pan] and toss it in the fridge for 1.5 hours, [reaches 78F in that time].

@corwinblack4072 2 месяца назад

@@mikewurlitzer5217 Making yudane aint problem, incorporating it into dough without quite a bit of kneading definitely will be a problem. Only solution would be some hybrid between yudane and tangzhong, something like 2:1 liquid:flour. Btw. yudane is best left in the fridge for like 24h or at least overnight.

@mikewurlitzer5217 2 месяца назад

@@corwinblack4072 I've never had an issue incorporating yudane in with the main dough. Usually I'll first combine the remaining water with the yudane [like I'd do for a SD starter] then add the rest of the ingredients. Adding the water first makes it much easier.

@corwinblack4072 2 месяца назад

@@mikewurlitzer5217 I guess it depends on what ratio is your yudane and if its overnight or not. Im usually doing 80-90% hydration one and thats quite stiff next day. But I can try next time to simply let it soak, maybe it will give up. :D

@norcalovenworks Месяц назад

I watched your video to see if you and I agreed that it was ok to make the roux with all of the milk. My last bake used 24 oz of milk, and 8 oz of flour (25% of the final flour), but I decided to make challah, so I added 3 eggs to the recipe. The next time I make challah, I may drop the butter. My challah tripled in size during the initial proof, and quadrupled during the final proof, because I got distracted. I think the challah with roux will be a good recipe for cinnamon buns.

@sumire.s. 2 месяца назад

Thank you for updating the recipe. Can this be combined with cold ferment? Or cold proof? If so, any tips on that?

@ChainBaker 2 месяца назад

Yeah just pop it in the fridge right after mixing and give it one fold 30 minutes later. Ferment for a day and then proceed as per recipe.

@ChazZski 2 месяца назад

Wow i can’t wait to this! I usually have to knead for a long time! Can i use sourdough instead? How would I adjust the recipe? ☺️

@ChainBaker 2 месяца назад

Make a leaven with 20% of the flour. You may want to increase the hydration a bit because the sour leaven will tighten the dough a bit.

@ChazZski 2 месяца назад

Okay thank you so much!!! 😊

@doraharrison1642 2 месяца назад

thank you, this looks easy and delicious , Curious Charlie, what happened to you big heavy silver chain bracelet, it just dawned on m that you don't wear it anymore? Have a great weekend. :)

@ChainBaker 2 месяца назад

It does not suit me anymore 😅

@doraharrison1642 2 месяца назад

@@ChainBaker got ya, it sure looked heavy :)

@btrook1981 2 месяца назад

I can’t wait to make this! I’m starting it tonight and finishing it tomorrow. Have you experimented with dough conditioners yet? I have been using one from Amazon from the scratch brand. It makes the bread extra fluffy and has some barley malt to help it brown more. I am considering making a version of this milk bread that has it added to see how it changes the final product. Every time I test it though in other recipes it always makes it softer. The yudane bread I made was a lot better with it.

@ChainBaker 2 месяца назад

I have not experimented with dough conditioners. I think scalding/yudane/tangzhong are great methods for conditioning. Using eggs, fat or even sugar can help a lot too.

@btrook1981 2 месяца назад

@@ChainBaker the recipe turned out amazing with just doing it as described! I am making it again today it was so good I ate it all and didn’t share. I did convert the proof to a 12 hour fridge session and it was still incredible. I’m amazed at how easy it was without the kneading. I look forward to seeing more of your recipes converted.

@ChainBaker 2 месяца назад

Awesome! 😎👍

@pd8559 2 месяца назад

I use the Large USA Pan Pullman so to convert recipes: For the Large USA pan: Volume = 13 inches × 4 inches × 4 inches = 208 cubic inches For the Small USA pan in the video: Volume = 9 inches × 4 inches × 4 inches = 144 cubic inches Now, to find the difference in volume: Difference = Volume of first pan - Volume of second pan Difference = 208 cubic inches - 144 cubic inches Difference = 64 cubic inches To scale recipes using percentage increase≈44.44% So, there is approximately a 44.44% increase from 144 to 208 and just increase the video amounts accordingly.

@wok1978 Месяц назад

I want you to make tangzhong Version of panettone!

@Jeepy2-LoveToBake 2 месяца назад

This is such a fantastic recipe - the resulting loaf with soft and fluffy crumb, milky flavor and that buttery crust!!! I highly recommend making this - for toast, French toast, grilled cheese sandwiches... Charlie has 215K subscribers YAY!! - please share your bakes with family, friends and colleagues and share photos on your social media channels (including links to Charlie's YT) and ask your followers to subscribe to his channel. His fabulous videos have helped many of us become better bakers - let's all do we can to get to 300K subscribers by the end of the year. Remember, It only takes "ONE" post to go viral..... Go "Team ChainBaker"!

@RecetasconVeronica Месяц назад

Wooo que chino pan pero que pocos comentarios y tan buen video la gente no aprecio como debe de appreciate gracias exelente contenido gracias bendiciones Vínculos RU-vid Recetas con 👌🙌

@KeoniHung 2 месяца назад

made this yesterday! i personally add dry milk powder, i find it gives a very tender crumb.

@jailwhy Месяц назад

Hey Chainbaker, Love your videos! Can you keep mentioning how much the dough needs to increase? Eg, does it have to double after the 90 Mins? Cheers from cologne :)

@ChainBaker Месяц назад

Yep twice the size is just about right 😎

@amitsiovitz4000 2 месяца назад

Could this be done with whole grain wheat flour? It would probably need more liquid, right?

@ChainBaker 2 месяца назад

You'd need to increase the amount of milk to 340g at least.

@steveh3551 Месяц назад

Have you tried the pillowy soft roast pork buns or custard buns from Chinatown Bakery in London? It would be great to see your take on it 😊 it seems to be different from tangzhong, i was expecting it to be the same, but those buns were much softer, and can easily be flattened accidentally 😂

@ChainBaker Месяц назад

I thought they would be made with steamed dough? I must try something like that!

@steveh3551 Месяц назад

Thank you! I don’t mean the white steamed buns, but rather the round and brown baked buns, highly recommend to check out their bakery 😊

@lmkmomo 2 месяца назад

Does it taste any different from the kneading one?

@ChainBaker 2 месяца назад

Not at all.

@sd99944 2 месяца назад

What are the chances we could see 100% whole wheat sourdough recipe? Whether boule, loaf, or buns I'm interested in any/all! New to sourdough baking and my loaves tend to turn out pretty dense, I think due to my lack of tension building in final shape, but a video to confirm would be great

@ChainBaker 2 месяца назад

I don't have a starter at the moment, so it will be a while 😅

@alfredobotta5922 2 месяца назад

Thanks....how about cinnamon rolls with this method?

@ChainBaker 2 месяца назад

Here's an even easier method but with the same result - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-GkAnwnY5uGI.html

@vonantero9458 2 месяца назад

I wonder if it would make any difference starting this like a lasagna white sauce ; In a pan, melt the butter and add the flower. When it gets thick you pour in the milk.

@ChainBaker 2 месяца назад

Interesting idea. You would need quite a lot more liquid or a lot less water in that case I reckon. And you'd need more butter too. But I think something could be made up. I'm gonna add this one to my list! 😁

@ThomasTraveler 2 месяца назад

In an earlier video you said that you prefered Yudane to Tangzhong. Would it be possible to do a Nyudane (Nyu is Japanese for milk, as opposed to Yu, which is hot water) in we stir hot milk into the flour? It seems like it would be easier and not require topping up. I'm still looking for the ultimate white bread sandwich loaf recipe, with diastatic malt, and any other tricks to make a perfect loaf.

@ChainBaker 2 месяца назад

Definitely. The only reason why I chose tangzhong was because I was recreating one of my old videos.

@ddee1263 2 месяца назад

Can you use whole wheat or rye flour in the tanzang? I am going to try this recipe.

@mikewurlitzer5217 2 месяца назад

He has a Whole Wheat recipe using Tangzhong or I believe, Yudane. I've made it many times using fresh milled Hard White Wheat berries and it was stellar.

@ddee1263 2 месяца назад

@@mikewurlitzer5217 I will look thanks.

@ChainBaker 2 месяца назад

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-_XZGGPxydKs.html 😉

@ddee1263 2 месяца назад

@@ChainBaker thanks

@selka-kx 2 месяца назад

And after those few years maybe I would make at least one milk milk bread? 😅 I don't know why I didn't make it for today. Maybe because I don't know how to eat it? With what to eat it? 😃 Beside that I would like to see "best ultimate endgame babka recipe" 😂 Usually when I make some sweet bakes it's babka with different fillings (last time strawberry and that was amazing 😍). I always trying to do it the softest, the puffiest, the most delicious, the best babka... 🥰. My starting point for dough is your cozonac recipe (I don't prefer brioche) but I'm trying to make it no knead, bulk fermented in the fridge and without preferment. After that I experiment... Maybe some potato? What about more sugar? Maybe more egg yolks? It always turn good but a bit different. I should try also some crumbly topping 😀. Do you have your "best of all time" babka recipe?

@JeffO- 2 месяца назад

With peanut butter! Or maybe very soft buns for something. I don't like chewy hamburger buns, which is how my first try at it turned out.

@ChainBaker 2 месяца назад

You definitely don't shy away from experimentation. I love that! :) Perhaps I'll try and make some kind of yudane babka..

@jameswhite1450 2 месяца назад

I use the Tangzhong in my cinnamon buns.

@jameswhite1450 2 месяца назад

I want to add that i only use part of the liquid for the tangzhong and the rest of liquid to cool the Tangzhong before adding my yeast.

@haroldsmith8997 2 месяца назад

How do I join channel? Harold

@ChainBaker 2 месяца назад

Click the Join button under the video or scroll down to find the link 😎

@steveh3551 Месяц назад

Where do you buy your glass bowl with glass lid? I havent seen them in any cookware stores :(

@ChainBaker Месяц назад

They're each from separate sets. One is a 2L bowl that came with a plastic dish and the lid came from a 2L casserole dish.

@steveh3551 Месяц назад

I see, that’s why i couldn’t find it 😂 thank you!

@axejst9113 2 месяца назад

PLEASE convert more breads to no-knead!

@PKSkeith 11 дней назад

not sure where I went wrong but mine ended by sticking to the buttered pan and the crust was crispy instead of being soft.

@ChainBaker 11 дней назад

Perhaps your pan is different. You can try and line it with baking paper instead.

@jessicacheong4251 2 месяца назад

Hi chef, how can I know when to turn on or off the fan when baking? I am very confuse😮

@ChainBaker 2 месяца назад

Low temperature (below 170C) = on. High temperature (above 170C) = off.

@jessicacheong4251 2 месяца назад

As always, you are the best baker! Thank you for the prompt reply ❤

@user-ur5bd8bt7q 22 дня назад

can i use ap flour instead? i have no access to bread flour

@ChainBaker 22 дня назад

Yes. I'd suggest reducing the amount of milk by 25g or so. AP is weaker so the dough will be stickier and stretchier.

@user-ur5bd8bt7q 22 дня назад

@@ChainBaker tysm!!

@Glance852 2 месяца назад

Are you open to do consultation session?

@ChainBaker 2 месяца назад

There are not enough hours in the day 😅 Everything I know is on this channel. Go through the Principles of Baking playlist and you will most likely find the answers to your questions.

@fieteferrum3441 2 месяца назад

Can you make a video about a no knead version of your garlic monkey bread. It's my absolute favorit for a bbq or summer birthdays. Keep it up ✌️🥖

@ChainBaker 2 месяца назад

I'll add that to my list :)

@user-ur5bd8bt7q 22 дня назад

Am i really supposed to use 50g of flour for the roux? I’ve thrown out my tanzhong twice cause it cooks in ten secs and forms into a ball of dough, completely different from your tanzhong 😭 Are you sure the measurements are correct

@ChainBaker 22 дня назад

50g flour, 300g milk. That should be still very runny once fully cooked.

@Sklikucs 8 дней назад

Hi, I've been making your recipes for about a year and they have been great, however I have a slight issue, due to bad arthritis in my hands I'm stuck having to use a stand mixer to do my kneading. Due to this I sometimes find my bread goes a bit dense after a day. I have tried using your Tangzhong to see if that would improve things, but to be honest there wasn't much difference. To try and sort this issue out I searched RU-vid for an answer and I found a baker from Bali, who brings a great knowledge of far eastern bread baking and science into her video. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-_mFYeiLzLpo.htmlsi=poTAK2ustUQ448ke She discovered that the 1:5 ratio that most western bakers use for Tangzong was actually based on one of the early cookbooks on Japanese breads to be translated into English. However the cook who wrote the book later stipulated that she was just simplifying the recipe and that other ratios were better. such as 1:1.5 or 1:2, I just did my usual bread dough from your recipe, but added a tangzong (1:2) and a biga, and replaced the Main dough water with milk and made a 2lb loaf and six bread rolls, what a game changer, I now have pillows of soft white bread, with perfect structure and the taste was amazing as I used your cold ferment ide overnight. I feel like I've finally cracked my basic bread after a year of trying! I would suggest you check her out as you will really appreciate the science and that she backs it all up with references.