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How to Make UNLikable Characters 

Brookes Eggleston - Character Design Forge
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All of us have fictional characters that we can’t stand- either they’re inexplicably popular, they make decisions that make us tear our hair out in frustration, or they just straight up get on our nerves. Let’s say we were TRYING to make a character that no one liked, though- what sorts of universal principles in storytelling would help us craft such an abomination- or use as a cautionary tale of what not to do? We’re looking at the storytelling and visual elements that would lead down such a dark path.
What characters can YOU not stand?
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26 июн 2024

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Комментарии : 3,9 тыс.   
@watermelondreams5883
@watermelondreams5883 2 года назад
My personal rule of thumb is that no matter how unlikable you try to make a character, there will be at least one person who ships themselves or likes said character. Really freeing for me tbh
@RosheenQuynh
@RosheenQuynh 2 года назад
But also kinda sad, ugh...
@RosheenQuynh
@RosheenQuynh 2 года назад
@@joyart9280 Why?
@koikat6638
@koikat6638 2 года назад
@@RosheenQuynh because it means someone is taking the time to understand a character on a deeper level and it's good to have a diversity of characters to have media attention rather than the same couple of characters
@RosheenQuynh
@RosheenQuynh 2 года назад
@@koikat6638 How does that relate to shipping?
@koikat6638
@koikat6638 2 года назад
@@RosheenQuynh You didn't specify shipping so I was adressing it more characterwise, but the same applies for shipping too. Shipping is often used partially as a deep dive into the shipped characters and how they would interact with each other. Having a variety of ways a certain ship could happen is amazing and it's also great that there can be more than the same three ships for media, even if a good handful of those are crack ships
@Bleats_Sinodai
@Bleats_Sinodai 2 года назад
I misread it as "unkillable" and the idea of an immortal Caillou is as terrifying as cosmic horror.
@captainstroon1555
@captainstroon1555 2 года назад
They would never kill Caillou in the show, so he really is unkillable ...
@Nakia11798
@Nakia11798 2 года назад
He isn't unkillable, the show got cancelled.
@samanthearichardosn351
@samanthearichardosn351 2 года назад
@@Nakia11798 Sadly, it managed to get a reboot.
@maciejas2471
@maciejas2471 2 года назад
@@samanthearichardosn351 Dear God... Is there more?
@SlimSamari
@SlimSamari 2 года назад
@@captainstroon1555 What if Thanos and Caillou swapped personalities now picture that.
@pacificgrim4661
@pacificgrim4661 2 года назад
When you mentioned Peppa Pig I thought of Daddy Pig, he always gets teased of his stomach size and he's humble even if his choices sometimes lead to mistakes. Once I saw this one episode with my sister where a spider web was connected to his car and he needed it to drive to work but Peppa said breaking it would ruin the Spider's hard work so Daddy Pig is forced to ride a tricycle to work and doesn't even argue. In the end Peppa straight up quotes: "Daddy Pig does work hard but Mr. Spider works even harder" like seriously your Dad is literally riding a tricycle to work
@zealotoftheorchard9853
@zealotoftheorchard9853 2 года назад
Chaddy Pig: Works hard to provide for his family, Rewards children when they show empathy, Endulges in childish desires without giving up his responsibilities, is liked by everybody in his work and personal life. Truely the modern hero we need
@emperorofthebananaboat4434
@emperorofthebananaboat4434 2 года назад
@@zealotoftheorchard9853 a true hero
@Sand-Walker13
@Sand-Walker13 2 года назад
I've seen plenty of peppa (thanks to younger siblings) and there are so many episodes where Daddy Pig just gets made fun of or kinda tormented for no particular reason. I always wonder why his family is so mean to him.
@pettylilthing
@pettylilthing 2 года назад
@@Sand-Walker13 exactly always points out his big belly for no reason
@TheUnknownGruntProductions
@TheUnknownGruntProductions 2 года назад
Ay transformers fan classy
@cogahan3105
@cogahan3105 2 года назад
You forgot to mention Uncle Iroh as a character that is universally liked.
@CharacterDesignForge
@CharacterDesignForge 2 года назад
Aw ♥️
@nighthowl2419
@nighthowl2419 2 года назад
@Stefano Contardi omg those are my exact favorites too!
@yaboijuanito1460
@yaboijuanito1460 2 года назад
@@CharacterDesignForge i love caillou i grew up with that show and i really find caillou a really funny kid🤣🤣🤣🤣.
@yaboijuanito1460
@yaboijuanito1460 2 года назад
@@CharacterDesignForge i just don't like peppa pig cuz it gives me nightmares and make a video about teletubbies
@jacksonspitsfax4526
@jacksonspitsfax4526 2 года назад
Avatar slaps
@mesadrums375
@mesadrums375 2 года назад
My proudest moment as a father so far was when my kid came upstairs to hang out and said “I can’t watch that, Caillou is really annoying”
@schleepy6362
@schleepy6362 2 года назад
Golden child right there, already a little man of culture.
@averageminecraftenjoyer9419
@averageminecraftenjoyer9419 2 года назад
@@schleepy6362 hes a monumental man of culture
@Thimble-berry
@Thimble-berry 2 года назад
No offense intended, but hopefully he didn't say that because he thinks he can't or shouldn't like things that are unpopular with a lot of other people.
@mesadrums375
@mesadrums375 2 года назад
@@Thimble-berry 1. He didn’t like it cause it’s annoying, I didn’t even know caillou was still on the air. 2. Things that are hugely unpopular are unpopular for a reason, and it isn’t a bad thing to recognize that.
@hilariousskullnamedcatzo647
@hilariousskullnamedcatzo647 2 года назад
Especially his parents
@scribbsAlty
@scribbsAlty 2 года назад
Okay, no hate on the character I’m about to mention, but Mickey Mouse is such a static character who gets a lot of easy wins, and I think he’s more iconic and recognizable than admired as a deep, developed character. Now Donald Duck, he’s a great example of a very flawed, but very loved character. He’s extremely short-tempered, unlucky, has an almost indecipherable voice, and he’s constantly failing. But he’s funny, kinda relatable, and because of him, we get other characters like Daisy, the triplets, Scrooge, Della, Webby, the Three Caballeros, they all started bc of the this stubborn-wreck of a duck(and I love him for that)
@rainpooper7088
@rainpooper7088 2 года назад
That’s the burden of being the face of the company. Mario and Barbie suffer from a similar problem in that their foils and adversaries tend to be more interesting than they are. Don’t wanna ruin the company’s image by having the character do questionable things.
@vocalcalibration8033
@vocalcalibration8033 2 года назад
Goofy is my favorite of the Disney trinity. More specifically the way he's portrayed in the Goofy Movie and Goof Troop. A struggling single father doing his absolute best to raise his son, but in his own enthusiasm doesn't fully consider his sons feelings at times. Of course he doesn't really fall into the "unlikable" class of character, but all the same.
@DisneyLoveQ
@DisneyLoveQ 2 года назад
The idea that Mickey gets a lot of “easy wins” is false. If you’ve seen literally any of his cartoons like Get a Horse, Runaway Brain, The Brave Little Tailor, Thru the Mirror, Shanghaied, etc. the whole essence of Mickey’s character is that he’s an underdog. He’s small and weak, and his enemies are either massive, powerful, or just outnumber him altogether. And all Mickey has on his side are his optimism and wit. Mickey’s stories are about overcoming these obstacles despite having little in his favor. A lot of people don’t understand that.
@CharacterDesignForge
@CharacterDesignForge 2 года назад
The older Mickey definitely has a lot more personality and compelling stories. The recent shorts have helped bring back some of that scrappiness for sure, but there's a lot of cases where he's essentially just a logo.
@tbana2396
@tbana2396 2 года назад
Sometimes I think to myself about how actual Donald Duck lore exists. I once looked up the Donald Duck family tree.
@cereal6734
@cereal6734 2 года назад
For me, the most unlikable thing a writer can do is throw in a romance arc for no good reason, or when a character has too many people fawning over them. Like, can the male main protagonist and the female secondary protagonist please just have a platonic relationship? For example, Black Clover, if you’re familiar with it. Still love it though, just a personal gripe.
@CharacterDesignForge
@CharacterDesignForge 2 года назад
Oh man, really feel like the platonic friendship is underrated in stories, always appreciate when they happen!
@MasterZebulin
@MasterZebulin 2 года назад
But muh shiiiiiiiips... Lol, jk.
@Pillzpop
@Pillzpop 2 года назад
J. P. Beaubien: Can I interest you in a love triangle?
@uckfayooglegay9982
@uckfayooglegay9982 2 года назад
Sword Art Online is a prime example. Kirito is so unlikeable but every woman he meets just seems to love the taste of cardboard.
@bersspon3256
@bersspon3256 2 года назад
Speaking of black clover, fuck Yuno, dude. It felt as though he just kept getting stronger just because Asta did in a fair way. Oops Asta got stronger because he nearly lost a friend and had to fight for his and his friend's life, better make yuno more op for no reason
@KeroTheInvincible
@KeroTheInvincible 2 года назад
One way to make a character unlikeable to me, is through the simple use of double-standards. Basically, if a character is not held to the same standard as the protagonist, or at least to the standard of another likeable character. For example; the main character has a certain belonging that another character uses without their permission. The main character gets frustrated and states that they absolutely refuse to share with anyone else, keeping the precious belonging all to themselves. The main character eventually suffers a punishment for this, and learns a lesson about not being selfish. Then, in a later episode, another character has a certain belonging that they absolutely refuse to share with anyone else. The main character gives in to temptation, uses it without permission, and is immediately punished for it. The main character then goes on to learn a lesson about respecting other people's property and not being greedy.
@tomorrow4eva
@tomorrow4eva 2 года назад
Yes! I hate this! I can only stand this is it’s part of the story. When the whole show just gaslights you like “double standards are totally fair!” it makes my blood boil.
@Underworlder5
@Underworlder5 2 года назад
another pet peeve could be "hero blasts through minions without remorse, but spares villain to show he is not evil". a related one could be "hero spares villain because he refuses to kill no matter how many times the villain kills others". that last one kind of makes it hard to root for batman, since his refusal to kill a single madman allows said madman to kill hundreds of innocents the next time he escapes. there are justifiable reasons for it (batman reasons that he could easily become addicted to killing, and joker wants batman to kill him), but joker has still suffered accidents that batman went out of his way to save him from, and what stops the gotham government from executing him?
@andrewramlall3560
@andrewramlall3560 2 года назад
@@Underworlder5 I hate this trope too. If you've already merc'd 20 of the villain's henchmen, you may as well kill him too or all that moral struggle is meaningless
@youwouldntremembermeanyway7410
@youwouldntremembermeanyway7410 2 года назад
@@Underworlder5 so basically just Luke Skywalker in Death Star 2
@Underworlder5
@Underworlder5 2 года назад
@@youwouldntremembermeanyway7410 that one is a bit iffy. the main point is that if luke struck down palpatine, he would be giving in to hate, and as a result fall to the dark side. the problem there is that palpatine is the leader of the enemy faction and a tyrant. there are more reasons to kill him than hate also, about the part where he spares vader, i would say that was the right decision. he was fueled by anger at the last leg, and so would be teetering dangerously close to the dark side. in that context, he had to relent once he incapacitated vader, since the kill would have been motivated by emotion rather than pragmatism
@elim4605
@elim4605 2 года назад
I do love how One Punch Man is a show about a character who has a ridiculously perfect fighting ability, but it flips the script to show how much disappointment and stress this causes him. They know we expect an annoying hero trope and instead they focus on the internal world of someone who doesn't measure success the way the viewer moght expect him to.
@Litchy51
@Litchy51 2 года назад
@Eli M I don’t watch One Punch Man but that actually seems really interesting. I like when writers take a trope and give it a spin into something unique.
@frankwest5388
@frankwest5388 2 года назад
@@Litchy51 OPM is really clever with how it handles it’s overpowered main character. Firstly, he is incredibly unfulfilled. Ever since he reached godlike strength, he has never get the thrill of a close match for real challenge. Making him incredibly depressed. No matter what he faces, he knows that he will win effortlessly. Making it not worth it. Then there is another problem. Because he is so strong, people often dismiss the effort of everyone else or just assume that, what he did do, isn’t actually impressive. Meaning that him being around, makes everyone appear worse than they need to be. It’s like a genius kid, getting the best possible grades without trying. Then everyone just assumes that test was too simple or that no one else ever prepared for it. Great series.
@Litchy51
@Litchy51 2 года назад
@@frankwest5388 Thats cool. A lot of stories go “not enough” where a character needs more/to get better at something, but that goes “too much” where he doesn’t like being so powerful and would like to become weaker
@robinthrush9672
@robinthrush9672 2 года назад
@@Litchy51 To further Frank's second point; when Saitama does something in the spotlight, the interpretation is to dismiss him due to his appearance or portray him as a borderline villain due to unintended collateral damage from the shock-waves of his punches. At one point, which is a crowning moment of heartwarming, Saitama plays into his negative press to uplift a normal person trying to take on a supervillain to protect trapped people; giving him most of the credit for "weakening" the guy he just exploded casually.
@vickypedia1308
@vickypedia1308 2 года назад
Saitama has the superhero equivalent of gifted kid syndrome
@mathyoucanwaitk7905
@mathyoucanwaitk7905 2 года назад
"I remember a very forgettable movie"
@CharacterDesignForge
@CharacterDesignForge 2 года назад
It's lack of impression made such an impression on me
@lynngatrell7965
@lynngatrell7965 2 года назад
It's inspirational that Caillou pulled himself together enough to become Saitama. I wish him well on his journey.
@etthealien5930
@etthealien5930 2 года назад
New theory: Caillou is Saitama as a child
@lamarepository248
@lamarepository248 2 года назад
One punch man will punch you multiple times if you keep insisting he’s the same person as *that.*
@lynngatrell7965
@lynngatrell7965 2 года назад
@@lamarepository248, well, if he has to punch me multiple times, he's not "one punch man," is he?😆
@lamarepository248
@lamarepository248 2 года назад
@@lynngatrell7965 when dealing with C**ll**, it would be madness to leave the faintest chance of survival
@cyancyborg1477
@cyancyborg1477 2 года назад
Heard that kid became the Avatar too.
@navyntune8158
@navyntune8158 2 года назад
Gregory Heffley is pretty much just the correct level of unlikeable for us, we're seeing through his eyes as we watch him make morally questionable choices and making failures at times
@--.._
@--.._ 2 года назад
Imo he's really in the cusp of being likeable, but his character falters a little bit to the side of being unlikeable xD Many still say that he's a likeable character, but a little more say that he's a sociopath.
@DraconicDuelist
@DraconicDuelist 2 года назад
@@--.._ What's especially bad, is I'd probably _almost_ like him if he was just a little smarter, or paradoxically, better at lying...
@scoundral2995
@scoundral2995 2 года назад
To be honest he’s just bad considering the things he’s done to rowley
@varik4363
@varik4363 2 года назад
as a younger kid he's sort of relatable and its funny watching his life unfold, when we get older we realize he was a jerk and loses all character development at the end of every book
@delightokose9386
@delightokose9386 2 года назад
@@varik4363 True. I as a girl, used him as a template for typical boy behavior. Then I read it again and realized just how manipulative he was
@isamepython
@isamepython 2 года назад
If this isn't a Caillou hit piece then we need one.
@CharacterDesignForge
@CharacterDesignForge 2 года назад
That's my secret... it's always a Cailou hit piece
@rainpooper7088
@rainpooper7088 2 года назад
My Caillou hit piece of choice is a baseball bat.
@Wodro
@Wodro 2 года назад
@@rainpooper7088 this made me chuff
@Mysticgamer
@Mysticgamer 2 года назад
And after him, the D.W. from Arthur.
@JMel2012
@JMel2012 2 года назад
Or Rey.
@AZUREPHOENIX777
@AZUREPHOENIX777 2 года назад
"Some of you are entitled to the wrong opinion that *this* isn't a crime."
@RGC_animation
@RGC_animation 2 года назад
Hmmm
@sonic40001
@sonic40001 2 года назад
Prince Zuko's evolution, in my honest opinion, really stands out as a clearly well-done character arc. From an angry, traumatized child that tries to get his father's acceptance in the name of honor, to a calm and wise mentor to the Avatar(and not only), an ambassador and father. Oh, and adopting Uncle Iroh's hairstyle.
@laprankster3264
@laprankster3264 2 года назад
I think a good way to avoid “perfect” protagonists is to interpret 1 or more of the heroes strengths as weaknesses like what was literally done with Hercules.
@Underworlder5
@Underworlder5 2 года назад
i did that with one of my own characters. on the surface, she has no real weaknesses, but is later shown to be charitable and selfless to a fault, insisting on taking on burdens even when she is in no shape to. part of her character development is learning that you can be selfish at times and count on others for help. another character has a strict sense of honor, but that results in him being very hard on himself, and has difficulty forgiving himself even when other have forgiven him a long time ago
@--.._
@--.._ 2 года назад
@@Underworlder5 wow that's intersting honestly!
@stovespiegel
@stovespiegel 2 года назад
@@Underworlder5 the "too selfless" shtick is literally every shonen protag
@Semudara
@Semudara 2 года назад
@@stovespiegel I mean, not really....? Most shonen protagonists are selfless to an extent, but that often is not depicted as a flaw. I feel like it's more common for the shonen protag's flaw to be just how gung-ho they are, rushing into danger without thinking anything through and flying by the seat of their pants.
@Burn_Angel
@Burn_Angel 2 года назад
@@Underworlder5 That fist character almost sounds like a Mary Sue, better check that out to not ruin her as a character.
@dbensdrawinvids8390
@dbensdrawinvids8390 2 года назад
One thing that drives me up the wall is actually the inverse of #3. Specifically, a selfless character who keeps being the 'good guy' despite constantly being punished for it. There's being a likable hero, and then there's being a doormat.
@KezanzatheGreat
@KezanzatheGreat 2 года назад
This definitely could be seriously annoying to me too if done the wrong way. For something done the right way (in my opinion), I would actually point to the old Disney Cinderella - the situation she was in was clearly abusive; she didn't stick around just because she was a good person, but rather because she legitimately had nowhere else to go. The only thing she could do was fit herself in as best she could and hope that someday she *could* get out of there. If that meant doing what everyone else told her to do, so be it. The movie's message is a message of hope. Versus a character who has plenty of other options (and might even see the red flags) but decides to stay in the abusive relationship, for some reason ...? If that's not a source of frustration (or at least concern) for the other characters as well as me, something's wrong!
@AD-dg3zz
@AD-dg3zz 2 года назад
@@KezanzatheGreat yeah, there's a difference between being a good person, and being a spineless pushover Edit: not that people who are abused and unable to find a way out are all spineless pushovers... but the ones who are unwilling, tho?
@lexofpower2822
@lexofpower2822 2 года назад
@DBen’s Drawin’ Vids would Spider-Man go in that category? He always tries to do the right thing but always suffers for it. For him I at least think it’s done right.
@marchymeow4584
@marchymeow4584 2 года назад
I think it depends on the execution
@ltb1345
@ltb1345 2 года назад
Agreed, I hate that. Especially when female characters keep physically abusing the protagonist when he doesn't deserve it, because it's supposed to be "funny".
@TheHuskyK9
@TheHuskyK9 2 года назад
Me: >makes a purposely unlikeable character Others: “Omg they’re so cute” 😚😚 Me: *>flips table*
@fuzzyotterpaws4395
@fuzzyotterpaws4395 2 года назад
Cailou isn't unlikable though. Same with Jar Jar
@KOTEBANAROT
@KOTEBANAROT 2 года назад
You just might suck at writing lol
@ketaminepoptarts
@ketaminepoptarts 2 года назад
you have to also make them ugly too, people on the internet always treat ugly people way worse than pretty people
@user-it2kq4ty9q
@user-it2kq4ty9q 2 года назад
go with it
@s2sHoXXs2
@s2sHoXXs2 2 года назад
@@ketaminepoptarts i think one of the best recent examples of this is bakugou from my hero academia. The author said he was supposed to be very unlikable at first, but hes been a constant favorite among the my hero crowd. i wonder how people would act if he wasnt conventionally attractive.
@rollingbarrel4478
@rollingbarrel4478 2 года назад
Eric Cartman is a good example of a character that most people love and hate at the same time.
@francisgoin3112
@francisgoin3112 2 года назад
An unlikeable character for me is the assumed audience that prompted laugh tracks in American live action sitcoms. I remember a scene in Home Improvement (with Tim Allen) wherein his character delivered the line and the audience laughed more than what was probably expected. The actors had to wait for the laughter to die down before continuing. The writing of dialogue was meant to tell a story - not explicitly to garner laughs, though that happened, and some of it was intentional. Sitcoms now have characters speaking in one-liners as if those one lines are an endless waterfall of epiphanies in a desert of intellectually defunct audience members: "And then I said, 'You can't do that!'" - cue laugh track "So he sat down, anyway, right?" - cue laugh track "Story of my life." - cue laugh track "You and me both." - cue laugh track "Cheers." -cue laugh track "Hey! I'm here!" -cue laugh track All these lines would run successively as if it were a conversation "real people" might have, and the laugh track creates a disparateness for each line that causes the conversation, ergo the thoughts of the characters (?), to be both incohesive and incoherent. There's something odd, demoralizing, demeaning, and rather alien about the assumed audience as a collective, if not single, entity that sitcom writing targets with its intentional non-stop laugh tracks. I don't like that audience that has caused writing to change track.
@DylanRomanov
@DylanRomanov 2 года назад
God I hate laugh tracks so much. The only show I didn’t mind them in was Rosanne idk why if I absolutely have to have audience noise I prefer it to be a live audience. Friends ,home improvement, Big Bang are some of the worst literally probably have three to five minutes of just laughing in each episode
@SeenAGreatLight
@SeenAGreatLight 2 года назад
I agree, canned laughter at its worst can really break immersion and lower the writing quality. Still, there are some shows that have used it well, and it made me laugh along with the audience, shows like the middle seasons of M•A•S•H and the Dick Van Dyke Show. M•A•S•H didn't pause and wait for the laughter to finish after every line, and it had rules: the laugh track was never, never used in the operating room, no matter how funny the jokes were, and some more serious episodes didn't use it at all. On the other hand, the Dick Van Dyke Show used laughter from the specific audience of each episode, making for hilarious reactions (one lady screams in the background of a broom falling out of a closet). It's all in the execution!
@LegacyComics100
@LegacyComics100 2 года назад
The one of the best kind comedic show is sketch comedy and the best one I’d enjoyed was Kids in the Hall, because there are different jokes that pay off with each sketch that are really funny. Unlike SNL which is just unfunny. Cue Laugh track.
@sonic40001
@sonic40001 2 года назад
Right? It basically forces you to find their hard-trying "funny", even though that's what it is, most of the time. Trying too hard.
@yoshisarethebomb
@yoshisarethebomb 6 месяцев назад
The sitcom shows that are filmed in front of live studio audiences are my favorites Like “Sister Sister” “Moesha” “Fresh Prince of Bel Air” or “Family Reunion” I also like Disney’s kid sitcoms
@sylvanshroom
@sylvanshroom 2 года назад
Things going unfairly well for a character always ticks me off so bad lmao, it's something I'd love to do for an antagonistic figure
@renarddubois940
@renarddubois940 2 года назад
it always goes unfairly well, they have the author on their side
@VelvetIcematoro
@VelvetIcematoro 2 года назад
Probably only works on Comedies since that's usually part of the joke
@Fauna_CR
@Fauna_CR 2 года назад
Could Titan from Megamind be an example of that? A total creep ends up getting super powers just by sheer coincidence and surprise surprise, he ends up abusing them
@alekziethings7923
@alekziethings7923 2 года назад
Kvothe, from The Name of the Wind. I like the books and Pat Rothfuss' universe and lore, but I can't stand how even when he 'loses' he ends up winning.
@johnny_my_penls_is_small_but
@johnny_my_penls_is_small_but 2 года назад
GRIFFIIIIITH! from Berserk is pretty much this after the Golden Age arc, an egotistical douchebag that with the power to have fate grant him everything he could want chooses something as petty as his own kingdom and egopolis. Course he wouldnt be anything without the contrast of Guts, but still.
@SogekingFirebirdStar
@SogekingFirebirdStar 2 года назад
Literally every character on Riverdale. You can tell how little effort the writers put in and it only gets worse and worse.
@madwibble
@madwibble 2 года назад
Yes, up to the point when you can't watch it anymore
@bighand1530
@bighand1530 2 года назад
As much as i like the Archies, the show does not do them justice.
@sunstriketacos
@sunstriketacos 2 года назад
99% of Netflix characters
@hassanalkhalaf1115
@hassanalkhalaf1115 2 года назад
@Simple Weirdo it does?
@trollerpilotxiv3079
@trollerpilotxiv3079 2 года назад
That show's still a thing?
@cassou124
@cassou124 2 года назад
honestly, I feel like Mirai Nikki really nailed some of the characteristics you show here, and I feel like it's totally intentional - the main characters' refusal to grow, their refusal to stop focusing on the past/future, is what causes their respective endings
@cadencewilson3628
@cadencewilson3628 2 года назад
When it comes to unlikable characters, the one that sticks out to me most is Chick Hicks from Cars. I mean, yes he has somewhat of a tragic backstory because he wanted to be the nice car growing up, but his dad taught him that nice cars finish last, so from that point on, Chick became the one car that nobody can stand because he's so full of himself. Just because he won ONE Piston Cup while Lightning won more than one, he thinks he's the forever champion.
@dedede5586
@dedede5586 2 года назад
who says chick is unlikable? hes fkin hilarious lmao
@sahilrahman5066
@sahilrahman5066 2 года назад
Dude is this why I don't like rimaru from reincarnated as a slime
@Sp_Oon
@Sp_Oon 2 года назад
He's a villian. You're not supposed to like the antagonist.
@TheRealOceanicDreams
@TheRealOceanicDreams 2 года назад
@@Sp_Oon Not all. Some antagonists can be likable or you can sympathize with them, but that doesn’t justify the actions they do against the protagonists.
@Sp_Oon
@Sp_Oon 2 года назад
@@TheRealOceanicDreams Well I mean you can like the antagonist but there is no movie that actually wants you to side with the antagonist.
@laurenrogers
@laurenrogers 2 года назад
I’m so glad you mentioned Nausicaa, she’s a great example of a character who is an incredibly good person with little to no recognizable flaws, but is still likable to the audience because we have a strong idea of who she is and get to see her be vulnerable. The scene where she tries to keep the baby ohm from crawling into the toxic river is one of my favorite moments in any of Miyazaki’s films. I almost cried because of just how SELFLESS she is.
@Amikas117
@Amikas117 2 года назад
Hard agree. She is my favorite example of a character who, at a glance, would count as a Mary Sue. But her execution is nothing short of genius, because her sense of being and *especially* her struggles in the story are very, very real.
@derekmatzek9551
@derekmatzek9551 2 года назад
Probably my favorite ghibli movie
@Hotcoffeepls
@Hotcoffeepls 2 года назад
Hm! I didn’t care for the movie specifically because she seemed too perfect to me and I just struggled with rooting for her. Maybe I need to rewatch and pay more attention!
@_Katzenberg
@_Katzenberg 2 года назад
The manga deeps down more on her character and her "perfection" playing a major key point in the later story.
@laurenrogers
@laurenrogers 2 года назад
@@_Katzenberg Ooh that’s interesting!
@beaniebean4885
@beaniebean4885 2 года назад
I feel like this video is just describing Caillou
@CharacterDesignForge
@CharacterDesignForge 2 года назад
I clapped when Cailou saved the presidents life in the 2008 film Vantage Point
@alexisislas-gonzalez5991
@alexisislas-gonzalez5991 2 года назад
@@CharacterDesignForge And Mabel according to everyone
@severalanimations3369
@severalanimations3369 2 года назад
@@alexisislas-gonzalez5991 Mabel didn't bother me because she wasn't the protagonist in my eyes. More the sidekick. Peter Griffin on the other hand is awful!
@sfisher923
@sfisher923 2 года назад
I kinda like Calliou or at least found characters less likable
@LloydTheZephyrian
@LloydTheZephyrian 2 года назад
Honestly, this video helps me personally understand why I hate Paimon so much. I just wish she could go be emergency food for the Bokoblin-equivalents.
@Antifearn
@Antifearn 2 года назад
One character trope I despise is the “Main Five” trope, in which there are five distinct, specifically created characters that form an unrealistic, pandering, “diverse” group of characters. You have: -the main dude who is usually white, handsome, and charismatic -The hyper white/Latina girly girl who becomes a love interest -The skinny, nerdy guy who usually wears glasses and easily gets offended -The hardcore, edgy, usually Asian tomboy girl that rivals her feminine counterpart -And of course, the sassy black guy with all of the one-liners and catchphrases. Power rangers did it, Big Hero 6 did it, Teen Titans did it, as well as many other shows and films (not just superhero related). Heck, one of the reasons why I unsubscribed from Smosh back in 2016 was because the 5 new actors they got were just real life copy-paste characters with these “personalities” to appeal to teens, which resulted in hundreds of cringey, unfunny videos. Edit: Since Anthony is back, I resubscribed to Smosh! I still don’t care for most of those new actors they brought in though.
@yoshisarethebomb
@yoshisarethebomb 6 месяцев назад
Also they only make the girls for love triangles or s•x jokes and everything just revolves around the main white guy anyway
@kyubeyo
@kyubeyo 4 месяца назад
@@yoshisarethebombexactly
@danielknauss5019
@danielknauss5019 2 года назад
I used to not like the art design on Peppa Pig too, until I saw another series with much of the same team, called Ben & Holly’s Little Kingdom. It’s not super advanced but showed me that the art style was meant to feel personal to the age group of the target audience. Peppa Pig is supposed to look like it was designed by a preschooler. That’s why the character and environment designs are how they are. The whole show is put together to seem like something a 4-year-old had done. It is meant to connect with its audience on a personal level this way.
@TheRealityWarper08
@TheRealityWarper08 2 года назад
I misread it as "Unkillable Characters," and was beyond confused when I saw Calliou lol
@monovailable442
@monovailable442 2 года назад
We all know Calliou can't die
@notcatisa
@notcatisa 2 года назад
caillou is real and you Cant kill him.
@Mr.Cynical
@Mr.Cynical 2 года назад
Chloe from the last season of The Fairly Oddparents. She was put in to boost ratings, came off as a perfect character who could do no wrong and everybody loved her, for some reason needs Fairies because she messes up sometimes (even though everyone still loves her, and apparently doesn't think it's actually her fault), and turned Timmy's day into a living nightmare (like it isn't already). She becomes a more "complete" character later, but her introduction leaves such a sour taste in my mouth that I don't care to watch more of it. I loved Fairly Oddparents, too.
@yukikanegawa7470
@yukikanegawa7470 2 года назад
I'll never understand why they decided to give her fairies when there were enough already liked characters on the show that clearly were miserable like Vicky's sister or Timmy's trailer park friend.
@fangirldreamer748
@fangirldreamer748 2 года назад
@@yukikanegawa7470 * Chester and Tootie
@melancholygirl7793
@melancholygirl7793 2 года назад
She was supposed to be a parody of Mary Sues but the execution sucked.
@0CaptainZer0
@0CaptainZer0 2 года назад
It also defeated the purpose of fairies. Fairies were for kids who were miserable. Almost depressed even. Chloe was not. She just broke all the needs for fairies.
@wynterb9609
@wynterb9609 2 года назад
I never even gave her a chance because she was so damn annoying.
@RavenOfNirvana
@RavenOfNirvana 2 года назад
"A character who repeatedly goes through the same challenge over and over again and we wonder 'are you ever gonna learn?'" It's okay, you can say Goku. 🤣
@Underworlder5
@Underworlder5 2 года назад
villain who has murdered innocents and threatens to destroy the world? better give him this extremely valuable resource so we can have a fair fight
@SoulHero7
@SoulHero7 2 года назад
@@Underworlder5 I was so happy when the TFS version of Gohan verbally ripped Goku apart for all of his stupid actions in their finale episodes.
@priscillabrown210
@priscillabrown210 2 года назад
You can add 90’s amine Sailor Moon/Usagi/Serena to that list too... At the beginning of each series after the first one (with maybe the exception of stars) her character seems to always regress back to the character she was at the beginning of season 1 (while they give a reason for it for R, that doesn’t work so well for S and Super S). Add that to the fact that they overblow a lot of her less appealing character traits to the point, that you actually feel sorry for people around her... Usagi is not meant to be a unlikeable character, if you read the manga and/or watched Crystal you can clearly see that, but the way they handled her in the 90’s amine was pretty cringe...
@stampoulisrafail7836
@stampoulisrafail7836 2 года назад
@@priscillabrown210 i mean the original anime has a lot of filler seasons xd
@angrymokyuu1951
@angrymokyuu1951 2 года назад
​@@Underworlder5 Did Goku ever really learn the lesson of "don't be a fighting-obsessed idiot"? Because I don't recall that ever sticking even in the Funimation dub(which, I've been told, gave him a rather noticeable IQ boost), even if it did occasionally hit him that Gohan wasn't obsessed with fighting like he was - though I did end up tapping out right when Kid Buu was introduced.
@bjornjonsson6583
@bjornjonsson6583 2 года назад
Schulz really knew what he did when he created Charlie Brown, because he is not flawless and struggles with almost everything - which is why so many people can relate to him. (Including me!)
@alexis91514
@alexis91514 2 года назад
Just wanted to add some background on Caillou and to further explain why he is so unlikable. Originally the character was designed by Hélène Desputeaux as a baby in books for babies, not some entitled 4 years old brats. Following a dispute with her editor, she more or less loss creative control over her character. Her original work is still available for sale on her website, but sadly was completely overshadowed by the horror of the more marketable version of Caillou. The character known to most is this weirdly undefined mix between a baby, toddler and child that is entitled BECAUSE that's what the producers want to see in their audience... it's more profitable.
@Turbs94945
@Turbs94945 2 года назад
That backfired hugely because Caillou got cancelled in January 2021...
@archbishopofthecrusades9579
@archbishopofthecrusades9579 2 года назад
@@Turbs94945 I don’t know if it really backfired, it got over twenty years of air time, which is a travesty.
@Turbs94945
@Turbs94945 2 года назад
@@archbishopofthecrusades9579 Well yes but over those 20 years it mostly got hate...
@offbrandfiji6487
@offbrandfiji6487 2 года назад
@@Turbs94945 You should know that any attention is good attention, they would not lose a minute of sleep even if their character was hated
@emmettolson3499
@emmettolson3499 2 года назад
I just looked up some images and the original caillou is actually CUTE???? He could’ve been so much more lovable
@sc0tt562
@sc0tt562 2 года назад
There is one case that avoids the “perfect characters” idea. It avoids this by having bad things happening to the main protagonists. It’s called a series of unfortunate events, and klaus, sunny, and violet are all perfect children, but terrible things happen to them, and they are overall very unlucky.
@AD-dg3zz
@AD-dg3zz 2 года назад
Between the unfortunate situations they're always in and the moronic adults who Just. Don't. Listen. The juxtaposition of their perfectness is one of the main things that keeps the audience invested. It also helps that the reason they're always utilizing their perfectness is just so they can bloody survive till the next day (as opposed to just prancing through life without any major hardships and making things unnaturally beneficial for themselves all the time).
@sc0tt562
@sc0tt562 2 года назад
@@AD-dg3zz good point!
@hassanalkhalaf1115
@hassanalkhalaf1115 2 года назад
NPH did a good job in that
@MahouShoujo-Studios
@MahouShoujo-Studios 2 года назад
That and it made it so that you WANTED the children to be lucky, you wanted them to find a suitable guardian where they could be safe. It does a very good job of making you want these children to be ok, despite them being perfect.
@hassanalkhalaf1115
@hassanalkhalaf1115 2 года назад
@@MahouShoujo-Studios characters like the judge or uncle Monty could have given them a nice home but unfortunately they died
@TheSleepingNeko
@TheSleepingNeko 2 года назад
I (female) have an aversion to nearly all “strong, independent” female protagonists.
@CharacterDesignForge
@CharacterDesignForge 2 года назад
Yep, often way too much conflation of “strong” (interesting, layered, compelling) and “strong” (masculine strength, boldness, power level)
@emblemblade9245
@emblemblade9245 2 года назад
I hope you like Samus at least, she’s awesome (Other M doesn’t exist)
@CharacterDesignForge
@CharacterDesignForge 2 года назад
@@emblemblade9245 Absolutely, replayed all of them ahead of Dread, which is easily my game of the year!
@yoshisarethebomb
@yoshisarethebomb 6 месяцев назад
Also they just make the “strong” woman a pick-me jerk who hates girly things and “not like the other girls”. Strong girls can also be feminine and/or kind. I also hate when the girl character cuts her hair as “development” and “becoming stronger” (Sakura did it well but the others were just really unneeded)
@megamix5403
@megamix5403 5 месяцев назад
By that you mean, Mary Sue, right?
@wrongtime9097
@wrongtime9097 2 года назад
A genre of characters that really gets under my skin (and something that’s guaranteed to start an argument amongst fans of related series’s) is the “born powerful protagonist”. Not all characters like this are bad (Superman and Harry Potter are pretty good examples) but a lot of them can get grating quick (especially in shonen anime). Imagine being an expert martial-artist. You’ve spent your entire youth mastering a specific skillset and you’re eager to show your talent to the world. You sign up for a fighting tournament, make it all the way to the end, and you instantly get punked by some dipshit 12-year-old who has never trained a day in his life and has gotten this far solely because they’re either the child of some mythical hero or they’re ‘cursed’ with some demon powers. It’s a surefire way to neuter the sense of character spectrum in your show because now it’s been established that anyone who’s allowed to contribute to the plot must now be some prodigy or demon-possessed puppet. I hate it.
@icecreamhero2375
@icecreamhero2375 2 года назад
Harry isn't born powerful he is very average at magic. Hermonie is the best at it.
@wrongtime9097
@wrongtime9097 2 года назад
@@icecreamhero2375 Harry’s born powerful in the sense that he’s the chosen one & can use Gryffindor relics that others cannot, but that only comes into play a handful of times
@wrongtime9097
@wrongtime9097 2 года назад
@@lita2720 ‘kay
@johannzwei3017
@johannzwei3017 2 года назад
The name "Naruto" comes to mind. I mean the show in general, not the character itself. The "Gaara vs Rock Lee" fight feels really bitter in the end (on purpose) because of what you said.
@GheeseEmpty
@GheeseEmpty 2 года назад
You can make that archetype work, but there needs to actually be growth, whether through personality or strength.
@kiebahow442
@kiebahow442 2 года назад
I tried creating an unlikeable main character for a comedy, and people found him relatable and funny.
@nukiradio
@nukiradio 2 года назад
There's two types of likeable: in story, And real life. In Kappa Mikey, everyone hates him, but the audience loves him
@daychild_
@daychild_ 2 года назад
That reminds me of when I first read diary of a wimpy kid and thought Greg was the most relatable fictional character ever
@daychild_
@daychild_ 2 года назад
@SophiaTheSassy i think that was definitely the case, since I have pretty strict parents
@whatwilliwatch3405
@whatwilliwatch3405 2 года назад
I dislike what I call "the obligatory comedic talking animal sidekick." For some reason, they tend to have overly-cute or else hyper-caricaturized visual designs (ick), and they usually have obnoxious voices. That's not to say comedic talking animal sidekicks are always bad - they're not. What I'm against is film/cartoon writers feeling like they have to check off an "animal sidekick" box, and therefore they insert a character that adds nothing to the actual story or character interactions, apart from forced humor. That's a fingernails-on-chalkboard sort of thing for me. All the more so if they're the ONLY talking animal in the lore of the particular world they belong in. We need to at least feel that there COULD be other talking animals somewhere in this realm (or even that there used to be more, and now they're extinct). Otherwise, it's just jarring. Disney has a pretty good handle on this concept, actually. For instance, in Pocahontas, which is (very, very loosely) based on history, it makes sense that her animal sidekicks do not talk, since there are no talking animals in the real world. In Tarzan, the implication is that all animals can talk, but only Tarzan knows their language. In other films like The Princess and the Frog and even Cinderella, multiple animals are capable of speech. And in each of these cases, the sidekicks actually contribute to the story, i.e. the mice making Cinderella's dress for the ball, and Terk and Tantor rescuing Tarzan from the ship. In fact, I think it's precisely BECAUSE Disney does this so well that other animation studios try to follow the "formula" of adding animal sidekicks. And sometimes, it just plain doesn't work. Only include characters that help your story.
@CharacterDesignForge
@CharacterDesignForge 2 года назад
Appreciate the framing of what you don't like as personal opinion, ,and providing a constructive counter of how it can be done right! I appreciate this format of comment the most, and perhaps I was naive in putting this prompt out to not expect otherwise. I happen to agree with you on all counts, here as well!
@whatwilliwatch3405
@whatwilliwatch3405 2 года назад
@@CharacterDesignForge Thank you! And I appreciate the video. It's hard to figure out how to fix something like an unlikeable character until you know why it's broken.
@bigcreator2084
@bigcreator2084 2 года назад
I don't like animal or anthropomorphic object sidekicks that are introduced as cheap humor or just as a lazy way to try appealing to children. The films from Golden Films really tend to add them. Sometimes they are okay, but other times they decidedly aren't bearable or funny
@Rakaziel
@Rakaziel 2 года назад
The phonenix from the old Conan animated series was good. Incompetent, sure, but internally consistent and saved the day at times. And the ability to turn into a shield emblem was cool.
@guardianeris
@guardianeris 2 года назад
I remember when I read the infamous "How To Draw Manga" series, the author was hammering in how stories, mainly of the magical girl variety, MUST have cute sidekicks because it's a staple of girly shows and something something cute and adorable and appeals to the younger audiences... Shorthand being, it's marketable.
@thefae8678
@thefae8678 2 года назад
On another hand, I have always been absolutely obsessed with some of the characters that everyone "loves to hate" specifically because they're so hated. It might be my savior complex, or my ability to understand where each character comes from, but this video definitely highlights the difference between a poorly conceptualized character, and a hated character.
@Monsterconnoiseur
@Monsterconnoiseur 2 года назад
Harime nui, malty, *somehow almost every male elf antagonist* the list goes on but you get my point if want a character you want to hate with passion watch anime :)
@thefae8678
@thefae8678 2 года назад
@@Monsterconnoiseur Oh, believe me, *where do you think this came from?*
@kal261
@kal261 2 года назад
I like how the thumbnail implies that Caillou is purposefully designed to be unlikable as a character
@SpookyGhostpeppers
@SpookyGhostpeppers 2 года назад
I think the idea of "repeated character arcs" could have potential to be good if under the right circumstances. What I mean is as humans, sometimes it's difficult for us to completely change after one incident. We may learn something from a single experience, but it doesn't always leave a lasting, permanent change. You may see yourself in a similar situation after the last one, and may even repeat the same mistakes (1. Because you have the expectation that things will turn out different or 2. You simply didn't learn- sometimes it takes 5 extra experiences before it sticks) So a character experiencing the same arc could potentially work if it's a conscious decision: In order to show a more realistic growth period- which also include relapses or even using past experiences to help make a step forward instead of instantly going back to square one. Sorry that this was long and made no sense, this video just made me think
@kevingriffith6011
@kevingriffith6011 2 года назад
The important thing to do in that case, I think, is to make sure that the lessons they learn aren't *exactly the same* every time. You don't change a character all at once, you just take a little off at a time until they've completed their arc... the problem is that we're so wrapped up in perpetual storytelling nowadays, very few studios/artists/producers want the story of their characters to reach a conclusion, so often we'll wind up with characters spinning in circles until they lose whatever goodwill anyone gave them.
@CharacterDesignForge
@CharacterDesignForge 2 года назад
Thats exactly it- nothing wrong with even a static character, or repeating mistakes, just the specific instance I mentioned in the video- where repetition comes with a promise that never quite pays off.
@JeffreyThrash
@JeffreyThrash 2 года назад
@@kevingriffith6011 Honestly, I think that's been true since perhaps the dawn of cinema, if not the dawn of literature. Once a company comes across their "SpongeBob" or "Simpsons" or "The Office (US version)" they will continue to milk it as long as it makes at least a little profit for them, long after anything new or interesting can be done with these established characters and forever kept on life-support by reminding people that the original show used to be amazing, usually by re-releasing or remaking the "classic" seasons. Nickelodeon is particularly prone to this mentality, if the creators of Angry Beavers (who wanted to do a proper final episode) are to be believed, while Cartoon Network seems to be more willing to end shows that could have gone more seasons, if anything, like Ed, Edd and Eddy or the Amazing World of Gumball.
@JeffreyThrash
@JeffreyThrash 2 года назад
I think the frustrating thing about shows that go on for 20+ years is that there is potential to do that kind of more realistic long-term character growth, the kind that is impossible to do in mini-series or shows that only end up lasting a season or two, but in reality we just get characters like Homer Simpson or Toy Story's Woody going through the same exact character arc over and over again to increasingly boring results. I feel only indie artists, especially ones in a position where they don't NEED to make money from their art specifically, have the privilege of ending character arcs right when they start running out of ideas. Considering how companies seem keen on milking their established IPs and putting off the dreaded day when they need to make a new one, regardless of how successful the creaky old IP still is, maybe we need to start teaching aspiring writers and directors how to write character arcs that can be spread out 10+ seasons, so that their hugely popular new idea at least doesn't feel like a ball and chain holding back their creative ambitions, once the seasonal rot starts setting in but the higher-ups really want to keep the series going.
@rachellynncreates2703
@rachellynncreates2703 2 года назад
Have you ever read David Eddings? It might interest you.
@finalfroevo
@finalfroevo 2 года назад
Tobias (from Amazing World of Gumball) is the best 'unlikeable' character since he pretty _much_ deserves it most of the time. A good piece of karma if you will
@thirdplanet4471
@thirdplanet4471 2 года назад
Squidward in the early episodes was like this and he had redeeming qualities
@finalfroevo
@finalfroevo 2 года назад
@@thirdplanet4471 very true. They had good moments but they weren't really favorites of mine
@hassanalkhalaf1115
@hassanalkhalaf1115 2 года назад
@@finalfroevo Squidward is my favourite. He was always relatable
@icecreamhero2375
@icecreamhero2375 2 года назад
@@thirdplanet4471 Not really. Squidward is just a decent guy that wants to be left alone. He never acted bad and he still doesn't. He gets pissed when he has to put up with idiots.
@icecreamhero2375
@icecreamhero2375 2 года назад
I feel the same way about Tobias LOL. I'm always happy when he gets beat up.
@LividLegends98
@LividLegends98 2 года назад
"It looks like it was done in 4 seconds, blindfolded" and "some of you are entitled to the wrong opinion that this isn't a crime" both killed me. Thank you, Brookes, for the laughs but also for the videos. I've been using these videos to help me with all the significant NPCs I make for my current Pathfinder 2 setting so I appreciate them a great deal.
@theflashfan3234
@theflashfan3234 2 года назад
"Repeated character arcs". Exactly what DC's been doing to Barry Allen in the comics since they brought him back to life.
@randomcentral0766
@randomcentral0766 2 года назад
especially in the cw flash series
@chilldogs5444
@chilldogs5444 2 года назад
Me a DM trying to get my players to stop liking my villains: "Write that down! Write that down!"
@trickydiagram5267
@trickydiagram5267 2 года назад
Dude, players just gravitate towards random shit, it's so strange. But honestly; it's a good thing to have your villains liked, it means they're entertaining.
@chilldogs5444
@chilldogs5444 2 года назад
@@trickydiagram5267 That's nice to know, but sometimes I want to crush their spirits by revealing a villain but then they are immediately asking, "Can I tame the motherfucker?" And it goes from end of world to pokemon.
@phosphorus9867
@phosphorus9867 2 года назад
Why don’t you just make them fail instantly when trying-your the DM.
@chilldogs5444
@chilldogs5444 2 года назад
@@phosphorus9867 Because they whine and I also like seeing them get all excited for their new sixteen story eight headed human flesh worm pet.
@trickydiagram5267
@trickydiagram5267 2 года назад
@@chilldogs5444 You really need to make your villain hatable and imposing for the players to not 'like' them. The problem with monsters is that you can't really 'hate' a monster because ultimately your relationship with them is impersonal, sure an amorphous blob of flesh, eyes and arthropod appendages is scary and all; but who cares? You don't empathise with the thing enough to despise it; it's just a dumb monster for you to project your own feelings onto. People make the best villains, their motivations are beyond 'kill, feed, mate and repeat' and they can be smug, arrogant or be a hypocrite and lecture the heroes about their own wrongdoings. Have them spite and spurn the heroes by hitting them where it hurts, kill a loved character, make it personal. Just my two cents.
@diamondjub2318
@diamondjub2318 2 года назад
do the exact opposite of all of these steps to make the most likable character ever
@Hamantha
@Hamantha 2 года назад
I’d argue that would also make em unlikeable
@TomEyeTheSFMguy
@TomEyeTheSFMguy 2 года назад
Doing "the exact opposite" of bad advice doesn't always work.
@JeffreyThrash
@JeffreyThrash 2 года назад
If only it were that simple...
@christophergarcia9022
@christophergarcia9022 2 года назад
@@Hamantha Then you get an unlikeable character that readers like to hate and you can say it was your plan all along. win-win, baby
@Hamantha
@Hamantha 2 года назад
@@christophergarcia9022 people hate those writers
@squeggit1511
@squeggit1511 2 года назад
Ash Ketchem because he’s constantly learning the same lesson every other episode but also magically forgetting everything he’s learned from the season prior, even forgetting about Pokémon he’s caught before
@skeetsmcgrew3282
@skeetsmcgrew3282 2 года назад
I remember not liking that show because playing the Pokemon games was all about building a team, progressing through gyms, etc. If Ash is just a dumbass child who refuses to learn life lessons, his Pokemon could at least start winning on their own merits and skill rather than deus ex machina plot devices and lame "friendship is magic" type reasons. The only good thing about that show was pikachu being cute and Team Rocket being an iconic gay-lesbian duo
@uberlord983
@uberlord983 2 года назад
Because Ash wasn't made to be likable, he was made to be profitable. He always goes through the same situations almost every season like clockwork because every generation is far enough apart that the previous "target demographic" won't socially interact with the next one.
@elijahechicagobearsboyd5734
@elijahechicagobearsboyd5734 2 года назад
@@uberlord983 Bullshit, I was a child through FOUR different Pokémon generations!
@meatymaggot
@meatymaggot 2 года назад
If you think of this video he is giving us both a thing not to do and what to do if you want to make a good character or a bad character. This video really helps me a lot with my writing. As a person who makes my own characters and post them online this really helps.
@AgentNibbles
@AgentNibbles 2 года назад
A lot of people always bring up Superman as a perfect character with no flaws but that's kind of the point. Superman's best stories are where you acknowledge he's bullet proof but the people he wants to protect aren't.
@Shadoboy
@Shadoboy 2 года назад
Also, Batman. They keep saying about how "Oh, he's rich and supersmart, he's a mary sue!" but always forget that he's emotionally stunted and when he fails, he tends to fail horribly (Jason Todd, anyone?) plus he's completely paranoid, even to his allies.
@AgentNibbles
@AgentNibbles 2 года назад
@@Shadoboy Exactly, even Batman calls Jason Todd his biggest failure not because of Jason but because he blames himself for what happened to Jason both dying and going down a dark path.
@Lupo32
@Lupo32 2 года назад
Magic and shiney green rocks say Otherwise , for me he's too boring Personality, that's why I always prefer Batman and that's a different type of Comic but goku from dragonball series.
@JonathanPaspula
@JonathanPaspula 2 года назад
@@Shadoboy Calling Batman a Mary Sue is one of the dumbest takes I’ve ever heard, being skilled, competent and unstoppable at times doesn’t save you from being a traumatized and suffering person
@iamMildlyUpsetWithMostOfYouTub
@iamMildlyUpsetWithMostOfYouTub 2 года назад
@@JonathanPaspula doesn’t change the fact that he should’ve died or beaten to near death in millions of situations. He can screw with beings that would one shot him but hey he survives because “he always has a plan” like holy fuck Batman is genuinely such a Mary Sue and nobody has thicker plot armor than him.
@frannielmartinez
@frannielmartinez 2 года назад
I like how this video describes perfectly every character in Miraculous Ladybug
@GalazyProductions
@GalazyProductions 2 года назад
Lol
@missn4409
@missn4409 2 года назад
Not every character I think... but more about Marinete/ladybug herself. I find Adrien/chat noir so much more interesting, his powers, lifestyle and the relationship with his abusive father. We could see so much more of him (expecialy since he is ONE OF THE MAIN CHARACTERS!!! ) I mean, his name is in the tittle?? It would be way more interesting to see his problems than Marinetes boring teenager problems... i mean, just some centered episodes with adrien would be ok, it dont have to be all of then, but come on, he is a protagonist too but they keep treat him as a secondary character. Only ladybug can shine and win all the battles, but he dont. He is only there to be her prince in shining armor and to be beatind for every single vilan, im every single episede. I fell sad for the kitten sometimes.
@frannielmartinez
@frannielmartinez 2 года назад
@@missn4409 Adrien it's also kinda a "wasted potential", he's just used for the Love Triangle trope. Y'know, everything should be focused in Marinette, CUZ WHY NOT!
@StoogesFan
@StoogesFan 2 года назад
Kirito from Sword Art Online is a good example of a Gary-Stu/Mary-Sue as he always comes out on top of every obstacle that is thrown at him no matter how impossible it seems and has a ton of girls that are head over heels for him (even his sister *yuck*)
@indecision6326
@indecision6326 2 года назад
I personally think JoJo's Bizarre Adventure handled character arcs very well by greatly changing the cast with each new part, thereby allowing each new main character to develop in a manner suited to their backgrounds and personalities. It can be a good way to alleviate the problem of repetitive arcs.
@the-sillycate
@the-sillycate 2 года назад
What I loved from JoJo is that almost every character had some unlikeable trait (to me). It felt refreshing.
@p3mcthedoor32
@p3mcthedoor32 2 года назад
Exactly. In that sense it's like the opposite of Pokemon (anime) where how they overuse the same protagonist writes the show to a corner. That and it's why I wished it could have gone through the same route as Jojo. Heck Pokemon adventures does this and people consider it as the superior Pokemon story. Long term protagonists can still remain compelling when done right (e.g. Luffy and to an extent Naruto) and as a bonus both have similar end goals as Ash. A tip for that is to make them drive and progress in the story and don't undergo an overly repeating character arc that leads nowhere like how Ash has to get his past progression retconned as a convenient excuse to get new rivals in one of his region hopping shenanigans doing pretty much the same thing in every region he has been through and halt actual progression by losing the league again and add more people on his friendzone list. It's one of the big reasons why the series stagnates and I'm kinda mixed to the show. It's the prime definition of a repeating character arc and idc if Journeys ended all those tropes, the problems should never have existed for 2 decades.
@snoote533
@snoote533 4 месяца назад
​@@the-sillycate Yep! All the jojos had their little physical and character flaws that helped make them more interesting and fun to watch! Jonathan was a bit too nice Joeseph keeps getting into shit Jotaro SEEMS to not care Josuke has goofy hair... Wait, my doorbell rang, ima check that.
@bloodmancer4824
@bloodmancer4824 2 года назад
Another ting to mention, flawless characters will never have a personality of any sort. They are cardboard cutouts of a person. It's impossible to develop a personality without struggle before hand.
@DetectiveWraith
@DetectiveWraith 2 года назад
It’s possible for them to have character, just not anything readers can identify with. Having only good traits isn’t easy to identify with, because nobody is perfect.
@calliethewolfcat2183
@calliethewolfcat2183 2 года назад
I love Nausicaa. From her design to her personality. She's wonderful, and someone I personally aspire to be like.
@popartist6214
@popartist6214 2 года назад
Wait what show is she from?
@suspiciousfigure3096
@suspiciousfigure3096 2 года назад
It’s a movie. Studio glibli made it, the maker of childhood animated movies.
@popartist6214
@popartist6214 2 года назад
@@suspiciousfigure3096 ooooh ok thanks
@Rassalcon
@Rassalcon 2 года назад
My all-time favourite fictional character
@BAIGAMING
@BAIGAMING 2 года назад
You know what my favorite kid's show was? Babar (the original TV series in the 90's). The first four episodes are like Bambi style, he gets attacked by hunters and is separated, but he teaches the old elephants how to fight back. When he confronts a hunter, he destroys the hunter's weapons and lets them escape even though they ruined his family. He learns about city life in France, and makes a city for the elephants stylized like a French kingdom and becomes their king. He always gets confronted with moral dilemmas as the king, and you'd see issues you'd never see in a kid's show in it, he even deals with a pandemic and the show realistically shows Babar getting the medicine for his family first.
@CharacterDesignForge
@CharacterDesignForge 2 года назад
I loved Babar!
@Fierywell
@Fierywell 2 года назад
so it wasnt a weird dream my subconscious decided to remember randomly huh
@IlluminateRanch
@IlluminateRanch 2 года назад
I love how one of the biggest flaws a character can have is being flawless
@manart6506
@manart6506 2 года назад
2:00 superman is like the worst example for a “flawless” character as he always struggles, we don’t read a Superman comic where he isn’t struggling with something.
@CharacterDesignForge
@CharacterDesignForge 2 года назад
Yep! Just referring to the common criticism that he's overpowered.
@manart6506
@manart6506 2 года назад
@@CharacterDesignForge yeah I got that. And even that is a flaw criticism because in the stories that become a physical battle he is always thrown all over the place before being victorious. To me Superman is handled in a similar way to Rocky Balboa expect for the fact Rocky is seen as the underdog that wins the heart of people after the battle just for enduring while Superman is often expected to win because he became the champion of justice.
@IRCannonFodder
@IRCannonFodder 2 года назад
@@manart6506 most of the people that claim Superman is flawless only focus on his powers and not the character. Clark Kent is very flawed and his morality and compassion getting called into question along side of his godlike abilities that he has to hold back every day just to be accepted in his day to day. A lot of great Superman stories don't focus on the physical side of Superman but the emotional and rational side instead.
@cam4636
@cam4636 2 года назад
@@IRCannonFodder I remember reading someone say something along the lines of "The best Superman stories aren't about how a god-on-earth landed in Kansas, they're about how the nicest guy in Kansas has godlike powers" They were snarking on Zack Snyder but I think it still applies to the "personality vs superpowers" argument
@manart6506
@manart6506 2 года назад
@@cam4636 it sounds precisely the Zack Snyder way of tackling the Superman story. “Maybe he is just a guy trying to do the right thing”. Superman in MoS (and BvS) is so evidently flawed (as in comics) that it shocked a few people that only really know Superman as a symbol of perfection (the popular perception that doesn’t really represents the character or his stories).
@Crow_Rising
@Crow_Rising 2 года назад
Sometimes it's possible for a character to be unliked because of their fanbase rather than because of the character itself. Generally this happens when a character gets so popular that you can't seem to get away from people constantly bringing them up or making reference to them. It causes an inner gut reaction that's probably easiest to sum up as "I get it, everyone likes this character. Can we all just shut up about it already?". Such experiences can sour one's perception of a character, causing them to not want to experience the media the character comes from for themselves.
@MahouShoujo-Studios
@MahouShoujo-Studios 2 года назад
Pretty much how I feels about Sans from Undertale or Jotaro from JoJo's Bizarre Adventure in a nutshell.
@romanlong3838
@romanlong3838 2 года назад
Pretty much how I feel about Hawk from Cobra Kai
@AoiBlu4
@AoiBlu4 2 года назад
You've just spoken the words of gods
@reddboytv1332
@reddboytv1332 2 года назад
@Zmir Moore exactly who I thought of automatically LMAOO I literally dislike him.
@FGenthusiast0052
@FGenthusiast0052 2 года назад
While I do have more issues with that character (design and well, the character trope itself she fills to), that's what Minamoto no Raikou from the Fate franchise feels to me. And quite a couple of others too, that, while I do end up liking some other character because of a character, the bunch of material sent to you from that same character over and over again, gets exhausting.
@antonioshort9472
@antonioshort9472 2 года назад
The 2nd wreck it ralph, ralph breaks the internet. Ralph's character arch was great in the first movie, but now it is about not wanting to lose a friendship. Vanillipys, ralph's friend, her arch was good in the first movie, in the second it was about her going TURBO and everyone is fine with it aside from Ralph.
@beldawilliams3282
@beldawilliams3282 2 года назад
Let me just point out Artemis Fowl (books). He starts out as an anti-hero fueled only by the purpose of money to save his father. He admits he doesn't like to harm people, he does it because he feels like they need to be dealt with. In the first book he casually makes death threats. In the last book he dies to save everyone. His story arch did take a major back step when his memories got erased in the 3rd book, but he fixes himself up after telling himself about how Holly helped him. A major jerk in the beginning, and a somewhat decent person at the end. My favorite story arch.
@deathkorpsgrenadier2894
@deathkorpsgrenadier2894 2 года назад
Despite the fact that I’m 22 now as soon as I get the chance I’m rereading the entire Artemis fowl series
@DetectiveWraith
@DetectiveWraith 2 года назад
@@deathkorpsgrenadier2894 good idea. It’s a great series, just… don’t watch the movie. They didn’t read the books before making the movie, and it shows.
@Semudara
@Semudara 2 года назад
@@DetectiveWraith What a wasted opportunity, it's sad that they took so long and yet /that's/ what they came up with. The first book alone could make a fantastic villain-protagonist movie!
@DetectiveWraith
@DetectiveWraith 2 года назад
@@Semudara agreed. I would watch all the books as a movie, if it was actually a good one, that didn’t change the entire plot of the book. Why do Directors find it so hard to adapt books into movies. The fans of the book could have made a better movie on a 10$ budget!
@deltathecomic4765
@deltathecomic4765 2 года назад
The one type of character I can never stand is an inactive whiner. Just constant complaining about the situation they’re in. I feel it’s a big thing newer artists do where they think their character is a), so cool for constantly and silently angsting, or b), is a small uwu bean who has the saddest backstory in the universe and cries over it; both of the two never actually doing anything to try and resolve it even though it should theoretically be the entire point of the story given how much it effects them.
@sapphirestar3978
@sapphirestar3978 2 года назад
i mean thats roblox and other noob roleplayers in a nutshell, the characters are just way too much on the extreme side that they push it too far and the character is hated
@Jack1994hoo
@Jack1994hoo 2 года назад
Yup!
@gen5fan293
@gen5fan293 2 года назад
This
@thevanillafeziant
@thevanillafeziant 2 года назад
You just described Arnold from the Magic School bus.
@meloneatingwolf1882
@meloneatingwolf1882 2 года назад
A, sounds a lot like Onion Boy in his second book.
@DraculaCronqvist
@DraculaCronqvist 2 года назад
Make a character be right in the narrative, when they clearly are not from a moral standpoint, make them all-powerful with little to no justification, make the rules of the setting bend to the character to make things possible for them that should not otherwise be possible. Those are the three easiest ways to make a loathsome character - and not because they're meant to be unlikable, but just by the sheer power of bad writing.
@andrewgreeb916
@andrewgreeb916 2 года назад
That's how Mary sues/ Gary Stus are categorized, basically the universe is bending over backwards for them to make them seem so much better
@rockhistoria2537
@rockhistoria2537 2 года назад
Kirito, that's all I have to say
@--.._
@--.._ 2 года назад
@@rockhistoria2537 I agree with you 100%. I can almost argue that Kirito is a Gary Stu (also reminds me of the mc from Redo of Healer, or just the show in general it's so bad)
@Vanyx1000
@Vanyx1000 2 года назад
Well said
@denisucuuu
@denisucuuu 2 года назад
Abby from The Last of Us Part II
@scoopp3902
@scoopp3902 2 года назад
About point 1, there is a really funny anime show called "Haven't you heard of me? I'm Sakamoto" The whole basis is that he is "perfect", but they take it to extreme levels, and he is very likeable because of how funny the situations turn out with him.
@tyloavery6763
@tyloavery6763 2 года назад
I would say one of the most likeable unlikeable characters is Greg Heffley from the Wimpy Kid books, except he is written in a way for you to root for him and want him to change, but he is still stuck in his selfish ways.
@Underworlder5
@Underworlder5 2 года назад
probably because he tends to be surrounded by worse people. also, jeff makes no illusion that he is supposed to be a paragon, even stating in a behind-the-scenes book that he can be unlikeable at times (citing the "i guess this counts as a learning experience for both of us" scene as an example)
@--.._
@--.._ 2 года назад
I would describe his character as having one foot stomped the "unlikeable side", and one foot in the "middle ground" lol
@dmitryboardman9762
@dmitryboardman9762 2 года назад
I think this advice could be helpful in creating a villain the audience can't root for. Make the villain win more than is satisfying, or don't let them treat their failures as a loss. A villain who always feels in control taps into that frustration for a good purpose- not liking the bad guy more. When paired with more horrific tendencies, a villain who feels like the strongest character in every scene can quickly become a powerful source of dread and loathing.
@remuslebeau6570
@remuslebeau6570 2 года назад
Bro, you just described All for One from bnha.
@cam4636
@cam4636 2 года назад
It can work like that, but it can also become draining--a villain who manages to always win no matter how hard others work against them makes the audience wonder why they should be invested in the fight; if the villain seems to always have the answer for everything we wonder why and the answer looks like "because the creator needs them to be" instead of "because the villain is very smart and capable"
@dmitryboardman9762
@dmitryboardman9762 2 года назад
@@cam4636 True. But "more wins than is satisfying" doesn't mean the villain can't lose, and the right balance keeps them feeling truly threatening while not completely discouraging to the reader's investment.
@Karlos1234ify
@Karlos1234ify 2 года назад
David Xanatos would like a word.
@joshuakim5240
@joshuakim5240 2 года назад
@@cam4636 The thing is, that kind of villain when losing then becomes much more impactful. It also creates a precedent where the protagonists cannot overpower said villain, so the author is forced to come up with a creative solution where the results are unpredictable because this creative solution can still fail to defeat the villain. Usually, a villain who does occasionally lose but mostly wins makes it difficult to tell when or how the villain will lose, so the readers/watchers are invested to see which matchups/fights/competitions may have him lose because they know it's possible, but also unlikely and unpredictable as to when.
@alexanderackerman3807
@alexanderackerman3807 2 года назад
The kind of character I hate the most is those that are all bark and no bite, I can respect the evil emporer who wants to take over the world and would do anything for it, but what would make me hate him the most is if he tried to give up the moment things go wrong
@CharacterDesignForge
@CharacterDesignForge 2 года назад
Have had a pretty spotty relationship with Marvel What If so far but one of the least believable things was Thanos somehow being able to be convinced he was wrong by anyone. Isn’t he… mad? Totally agree
@thomasraines1396
@thomasraines1396 2 года назад
@@CharacterDesignForge what made Thanos so interesting was that he was obsessively and fanatically devoted to his way of thinking, he would never be convinced he was wrong in the sense he would stop, he would just try and one up himself (he goes from halving the universe, and when the “ungrateful” Avengers try to undo it he simply decides to kill everyone and start over).
@THEPELADOMASTER
@THEPELADOMASTER 2 года назад
@@CharacterDesignForge Thanos isn't crazy. He's convinced his way is the only way. And nobody has ever tried to disprove that, the most he got was a "you don't know that" from his daughter. Everyone else tried violence instead of diplomacy. His experience with his own planet has further led him to believe his is the only solution. I don't see why an actual argument proposing an undeniably better solution couldn't change his mind. Of course, not just any rando that tried this is gonna be able to convince him. Only the circumstances of that timeline could lead him to change his mind
@Orbzul
@Orbzul 2 года назад
For me it’s the villain who loses in humiliating fashion every single time yet is somehow still treated as a threat by the world and the characters while they do nothing to try and actually end the conflict.
@willowgunnerthelunaticbio-5933
@willowgunnerthelunaticbio-5933 2 года назад
It's a pain in the ass to see happening, so it's probably relatable....
@CallOfTheMadMan
@CallOfTheMadMan Год назад
For me it's Bakugo from My Hero Academia. He isn't portrayed as a character we are supposed to hate, being friends and shown to casually hang out with the main cast in friendly or at least neutral scenarios. However, his design is spiky and aggressive. He acts violent and aggressive. He never acts friendly or kind or selfless. Even when doing hero work and saving people he does it rudely, aggressively, and with selfish motives. He doesn't have a single redeeming quality and has been stagnant in that fact for the entire story so far. And yes, I am aware of a spoiler event that has recently happened in the manga that has yet to be shown in the anime. I believe it will be an overall improvement to the story.
@rhaeasoul8531
@rhaeasoul8531 2 года назад
when it comes to powers perfect is ok if the weakness is the character themselves. A Supergenuis having a physically weak body, a godly character with either mortal rules or personal rules limiting them, maybe a random / uncontrollable power that has a cost like the power controlling it’s user, etc.
@RGC_animation
@RGC_animation 2 года назад
I personally like characters who are Anti-Hero or even straight up villains, like the Joker, or Dead-Pool, because they have much more complicated stories and break free from the loop of: "Oh I'm the protagonist so I must do good."
@ghostlyflamingo07
@ghostlyflamingo07 2 года назад
There are some characters who are good people but are not like goodie two shoes, For example every jojo mcs :)
@jotarokujo8423
@jotarokujo8423 2 года назад
@@ghostlyflamingo07 I agree with that completley. Jotaro was a literal thug at the start of Stardust Crusaders ,and Giorno had a not so kindhearted goal. Not to mention Johnny from Steel Ball Run,whom I consider at least as evil Valentine.
@ghostlyflamingo07
@ghostlyflamingo07 2 года назад
@@jotarokujo8423 joseph literally started shooting a tommy gun
@gamefan56
@gamefan56 2 года назад
​@@ghostlyflamingo07 Jonathan is a massive exception, he is the definition of a goody two shoes ( though to be fair he is meant to be an parallel to Dio who is extremely evil).
@wrongtime9097
@wrongtime9097 2 года назад
But you gotta be careful with that, otherwise you could end up with a protagonist who’s a complete dipshit and ends up becoming the villain of the story but from a different perspective. If the audience starts to root against the protagonist for any serious length of time then that’s when a lot of problems begin to happen.
@infinityzer054
@infinityzer054 2 года назад
The best kind of hateable character is something likable but pesters EVERYONE and often causes situational devastation towards a plan
@aiiiia9971
@aiiiia9971 2 года назад
So true
@unfortunatetiming4169
@unfortunatetiming4169 2 года назад
like sarah from the walking dead
@colbyking5423
@colbyking5423 2 года назад
Jennifer Love Hewitts character in "I Know What You Did Last Summer" fits this for me. She does little to no character arc, never has any flaws, and doesn't even deal with the killer until the end. Meanwhile the character Helen has a huge character arc, deals with the killer nearly the entire movie and has several flaws that she notices and improves upon. No idea why she dies and we deal with such a boring character afterwards
@colbyking5423
@colbyking5423 2 года назад
@ThisIsNotReel We get that in the sequel though, for the whole third act of the first movie we have a pretty bland final girl
@colbyking5423
@colbyking5423 2 года назад
@UCD-IHsD6_lkOoSsHQCvVfuQ I would like to see more male final characters, instead of them always either showing up at the very end or sacrificing themselves to save the final girl.
@jsrhedgehog9981
@jsrhedgehog9981 2 года назад
Mabel is what does it for me in Gravity falls. From a character design perspective, I don't dislike the oversized sweater or the braces, but I don't like the way her eyes sit. From a personality point of view, she's extremely selfish, gets a lot of what she wants and almost never suffers consequences from the situations that she causes (despite being the deuteragonist of the show).
@amooingdog3297
@amooingdog3297 2 года назад
I mean during the part when she gave bill the interdimensional rift, dipper was also being selfish by wanting to stay in gravity falls. A lot of mabel's plot points appear as the emotional counterparts to the things dipper is going through at the time
@coffee0093
@coffee0093 2 года назад
A character that recently REALLY stood out to me as unlikeable was Ava in Borderlands 3. She was static, complained nonstop, gets a very likeable character killed, blamed Lilith for said death, then everything ends up working out in her favor. It's to the point where I think the writers made her terrible on purpose
@biomechanica456th
@biomechanica456th 2 года назад
borderlands 3 was terrible period
@archbishopofthecrusades9579
@archbishopofthecrusades9579 2 года назад
I would think they made her terrible on purpose if she wasn’t so important to the story. She’s now the leader of the crimson raiders even though there’s dozens more people that are smarter, more experienced, less annoying, and better suited for the job. Making a annoying character like Ava is something you do for a side quest, or a main quest throw-away character that they kill off for a joke, not the one you make leading the main group and probably will be an important character if not a playable character in the next game, a complete failure.
@thecreatedvoid117
@thecreatedvoid117 2 года назад
@@biomechanica456th amen to that! Such a bummer. BL2 was the prime and it’s only been downhill from there imo.
@fireside5814
@fireside5814 2 года назад
Lets hope that gearbox learns their lesson bc i’m not waiting 7-8 years for another bl3. At least story-wise
@Cameroo
@Cameroo 2 года назад
Curious how a character like Sherlock Holmes falls into this. Despite a number of his flaws he's always right, he's portrayed as condescending to his best friend many times and is despite that loved to this day.
@WhiteManOnCampus
@WhiteManOnCampus 2 года назад
Well, Holmes is an interesting character, and in his original iteration and the more faithful adaptations he's not portrayed as being always right. He's a drug addict, obsessive, potentially psychotic, and yet he puts his talents to work protecting others. Holmes can be beloved and admired because he tries to do good for others and doesn't do it with the intent of seeking glory.
@goach_art
@goach_art 2 года назад
I think he would actually fall into this if, despite everything mentioned, he was aclaimed and loved by his peers. Instead he pushes them away and seems destined to be alone.
@sketchysketches381
@sketchysketches381 2 года назад
I gotta say the same about House as a kid I liked his character but as I got older despite his many flaws he was always right always loved and admired and I'm sure it got old eventually that he was an always right bastard. I think there are examples of characters like him that mess up enough to gain sympathy without necessarily being likable tho
@dreampiper
@dreampiper 2 года назад
Honestly, Sherlock Holmes doesn't fall into this as much as you would think. He is right when it comes to solving problems because he is a hero and most stories have the hero winning, but he has enough flaws and even losses for me to consider him a layered character, albeit one that hasn't gone through a full arc, but smaller ones.
@Jack1994hoo
@Jack1994hoo 2 года назад
I think that its because he actually has the witd and smarts to back his poor attitude. Otherwise he'd just cime off as arrogant
@teenietinytony
@teenietinytony 2 года назад
i really love characters who start of unlikeable and become likable through intense character development, but in a way where you still recognize them as the same person. i also love realistic character development. you won't completely change and at some point might take stepbacks or stop changing which can lead to a bit of arrogance. it's great when chracacters go through multiple character developments, but with different intensity and on different levels. the amound of people i know who hate some characters for just being female is wild though. i never understood that, but i had mulitple straight female friends who disliked certain personality traits and arcs only for female characters. kinda sad and off-putting.
@emblemblade9245
@emblemblade9245 2 года назад
It’s all in the presentation and delivery I imagine. Most of the time anyway.
@ToddniTV
@ToddniTV 2 года назад
"4. Static characters getting easy wins" for some reason empress Theresa springs to mind
@redzgaming6880
@redzgaming6880 2 года назад
For me, DW from Arthur sprang to mind. DW can whine, pout, and misbehave all day, but when someone complains about her being whiney, they're painted as a bully.
@schleepy6362
@schleepy6362 2 года назад
Empress Theresa, haven’t heard that name in a while. *Why did you remind me she exists.*
@DrZuluGaming
@DrZuluGaming 2 года назад
That reminded ne of Wade Watts in both RPO and RPT, especially RPT. Dude didn't even get to fight Anorak at the end of the second book. He let a dying Ogden do the job for him.
@SupahTheSnowy
@SupahTheSnowy 2 года назад
My personal least favorite type of character is the hyper-generic protagonist character with the same overused backstory, same dull personality traits, and in some cases, absolutely little to no character development. Protagonists should be just as interesting and quirky as any other character yet many writers don’t seem to understand this.
@blokvader8283
@blokvader8283 2 года назад
I've never watched the show, but for some reason all I can picture is Deku from MHA
@apimpnamedslickback5936
@apimpnamedslickback5936 2 года назад
@@blokvader8283 deku has several distinct character traits that differ him from most protag with a major difference in character growth so bad example
@adamcorb2974
@adamcorb2974 2 года назад
@@blokvader8283 yeah nah, deku actually tries and learns from his mistakes and grows because of them. He does have some eccentricities too as far as main characters go.
@guardianeris
@guardianeris 2 года назад
I think it's even more annoying when it's lampshaded that they're bland and boring, I can list at least ten animes off the top of my head where the male protag will be like "haha I'm such an average guy with average tastes isn't that sooo boring?? If anything happened besides the most boring basic rundown of my boring little life I don't think I'd be able to handle it! Tee-hee~" and it's insufferable every time
@sekiro_the_one-armed_wolf
@sekiro_the_one-armed_wolf 2 года назад
@@blokvader8283 Deku literally shreds his arms to pieces because he isn’t strong enough to handle the power he was given, to the point he cannot get them healed properly anymore, and don’t function nearly as well as they used to. Maybe that gets fixed later but I’m not crazy far into the story so correct me if that occurs.
@enderkatze6129
@enderkatze6129 2 года назад
What about: a seemingly perfect character that is actually deeply flawed and Not even trying to Hide it, but because of a continually contrived Plot Always comes Off looking perfect
@willmiester4051
@willmiester4051 2 года назад
“I’m not the Messiah!” *”He is the Messiah!!!”*
@MovieFan1912
@MovieFan1912 2 года назад
@@willmiester4051 Hahahaha! Nice Monty Python reference!
@Burn_Angel
@Burn_Angel 2 года назад
Dunno why, but the closest thing that I thought of was Phineas and Ferb.
@Popotato7777
@Popotato7777 2 года назад
This feels more like how to not make mistakes when doing likable characters
@CharacterDesignForge
@CharacterDesignForge 2 года назад
A little bit 🙂
@kyubeyo
@kyubeyo 4 месяца назад
Yes and I’m using this to make unlikable characters
@frost4794
@frost4794 2 года назад
"A character that does nothing wrong" *proceeds to look at Disney's characters.*
@minotostar
@minotostar 2 года назад
Not all Disney characters are like that, you know.
@frost4794
@frost4794 2 года назад
Ik, but a good handful are now.
@GalazyProductions
@GalazyProductions 2 года назад
More reasons why Donald Duck is superior to Mickey Mouse
@laprankster3264
@laprankster3264 2 года назад
I think Simba, Aladdin, and Adam are good examples of flawed (in Adam’s case severely flawed) but ultimately heroic protagonists. Even Hercules strength turned into a flaw in its own way.
@FricknA
@FricknA 2 года назад
Merida
@invaderstim8804
@invaderstim8804 2 года назад
I'm reminded of Bloo from Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends. His design is unique, yet simple, but he's also an annoying brat most days who gets annoyed by rules and such. Yes, he's relatable, but in the same vein, he's unlikeable. Let's not mention Bendy
@gale1243
@gale1243 2 года назад
The sad thing is the pilot movie made him seem a lot more sympathetic and a bit lonely but for some reason the show turned him into a complete asshole
@Turbs94945
@Turbs94945 2 года назад
That show is SO underrated.
@schleepy6362
@schleepy6362 2 года назад
I never knew what to think about Bloo when I was a kid. I liked him, but I liked Mac, Walt, and Eduardo a lot more. Those guys were sweethearts🥺Maybe the intention was to have Bloo be more bratty to contrast with the other characters?
@Erika-xm2mi
@Erika-xm2mi 2 года назад
With Bloo it was, to me, always a matter of writing. He'd have moments when his good side came out and he was shown to be genuinely caring and kind towards the friends that he held dear, but then his selfish and greedy side would take over five seconds later. The episodes where he let out those buzzing creatures that were Frankie's imaginary friends and when he tricked Mac into eating sugar anger me the most. He created chaos not only for some of his friends but for the entire Foster's house simply because he didn't want to do as he was told.
@playgroundchooser
@playgroundchooser 2 года назад
Bloo is one of my favorite characters ever. 🤣
@CharacterDesignForge
@CharacterDesignForge Год назад
UPDATE: Biko, who I mentioned in this video, the main character of my animated series, (who I like to think is fairly likable) is available to give you healing as a plush, only until 11/6/22! Grab it to directly support the development of my animated series Stormfellers! www.makeship.com/products/biko-plush
@admiralAlfonso9001
@admiralAlfonso9001 2 года назад
I think Hey Arnold does the perfect characters thing well because Lila and Olga are supposed to be perfect but they feel like a human and have good moments
@christophergarcia9022
@christophergarcia9022 2 года назад
I like how Cailoo or however his name is spelled is basically on everyone's hate list whenever unlikeable character is mentioned just for how easy a target he is. EDIT: In my case, I don't think I have one character I hate that much except for maybe manga-anime perverts that are supposed to be comedic relief for being perverts because they are so one-dimensional. Usually feel like a rehash of old ideas (e.g. "oh no, definitely-not-Roshi-from-Dragonball is taking panty shots lmao") and the worst cases don't even punish the characters for their behaviours, while also detracting from the plot
@Sarah_H
@Sarah_H 2 года назад
"manga-anime perverts that are supposed to be comedic relief for being perverts" I had a REALLY hard time getting through Kill-La-Kill because of the dad and Mataro, whose entire purpose in the story was to just nosebleed/fawn over how drop-dead gorgeous Ryuko was. Buuuut that whole anime felt very much like one big over-the-top parody of other anime tropes so...meh
@christophergarcia9022
@christophergarcia9022 2 года назад
@@Sarah_H Parody anime is "fine" IMO because the watcher knows exactly full well that the over-the-top element is just intended as exageration of regular tropes and the setting usually isn't serious enough for the pervert to be too distracting when given screen time. But when you are in a serious anime and you see that guy, coming out of god knows where, specially annoying if whole episodes are basically derailed thanks to their contribution.
@Nakia11798
@Nakia11798 2 года назад
Cailou is a French name meaning pebble... Which I'd like to kick him like.
@Nakia11798
@Nakia11798 2 года назад
@@Sarah_H I don't mind the pervert when its not obnoxiously overdone or treated as a good thing.
@cam4636
@cam4636 2 года назад
I've stopped watching certain anime because after a point it's clear it's just the creator saying "look, GIRL PANTIESSS". Especially if the "comedic relief" is actually just killing the mood & dragging the story to a halt
@jilliancrawford7577
@jilliancrawford7577 2 года назад
Maybe it's just me, but I don't think tacking on a few tiny, sometimes unrelated flaws can allow someone to claim a character isn't perfect and therefore isn't a mary-sue/gary-stu either. Maybe I'm too picky, am acting entitled or have unrealistic understandings, but I've seen this in a lot of characters and have seen friends write characters this way too. Just because a character trained for a week or two to be impossibly unbeatable or has a homicidal anger issue about a very specific thing but is otherwise perfect and loved by all doesn't make them flawed and balanced to me, but that's just me.
@CharacterDesignForge
@CharacterDesignForge 2 года назад
Absolutely! That’s the key part of this video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-eNdi5zGcu1A.html
@Nakia11798
@Nakia11798 2 года назад
Of course. Mary/Gary often have the same flaws that really don't impact their lives or how others feel about them. They're clumsy, too nice, too optimistic, shy, have glasses, had some traumatic backstory that somehow didn't leave them with PTSD, etc. Edit: May I add, the trained for two weeks to be undefeatable thing is actually great in parody(see One Punch Man)
@moosesues8887
@moosesues8887 2 года назад
Bruh raid shadedgehog
@johnwalker1058
@johnwalker1058 2 года назад
To me, a mary sue or gary stu having that kind of weakness just felt like the writer going "okay here, I put a weakness so you can't accuse me of making my character a mary sue/gary stu."
@IceFireofVoid
@IceFireofVoid 2 года назад
I feel like the most easy non-issue flaw people tack onto their flawless character is always that they're really clumsy. It doesn't read as a real flaw they can overcome, but just lazy comic relief that gets old really fast.
@myMelody4life
@myMelody4life 2 года назад
My least favorite characters and stories are the ones where characters do terrible things and are either constantly being forgiven or are just never held accountable in any meaningful way. I especially hate it when the writer then, instead of actually having the character work to redeem themselves (like Zuko who had to work extremely hard to gain the trust of the main cast), tries to give the character a tragic backstory as if to say that "Oh it's okay that they did all these terrible things because they've had a hard life and they should just be forgiven and never be held responsible for their actions". Christian Grey is a good example of this, but I've seen it done elsewhere. But, to end on a positive note. The one thing that I like most in a character is compassion. It's why Katara is my favorite character in ATLA. It's why, I think, that people love Superman so much. It's why my favorite moments with Batman are where he shows deep compassion for people, even for his enemies like in the end of the episode with Baby-Doll in BTAS (if you haven't seen that scene, I highly recommend checking it out). And it's why I like Iron Man. Even though he can act kind of full of himself it never really gets annoying for me because 1) it kind of feels like it's a way to mask his own insecurities (or at least, that's how it comes across as to me), 2) Stark genuinely feels bad when he learns that his company is responsible for killing innocent civilians overseas and when his invention Ultron killed so many people including that one young man, 3) instead of making excuses he works to redeem himself by making his Iron Man suit and siding with the signing of the Sokovia Accords, and 4) he actually is willing to put himself in danger to save others like in the first Avengers. That's why, to me, Stark is such a likeable character even if he does act kind of full of himself at times.
@Burn_Angel
@Burn_Angel 2 года назад
'My least favorite characters and stories are the ones where characters do terrible things and are either constantly being forgiven or are just never held accountable in any meaningful way.' So, Mario when he kidnapped Donkey Kong and released wild life against his baby, Donkey Kong Jr. in the NES then.
@greatdanelegend7001
@greatdanelegend7001 2 года назад
Literally all of these are a perfect description of James, the main character in Onision's pathetic excuse of a book, "Stones to Abbigale"
@thirdplanet4471
@thirdplanet4471 2 года назад
To me characters don't necessarily need to be liked or disliked perse but they at least should be understood. However, things can be complicated because l can like a character's role in the story and how they impact the plot but l can hate them as a person like if they were a real person and did in real life what they do in the story. For example, I like Joker's character in the story but l hate him as a real person. There's also good and bad qualities that can complicate things. Like, maybe the hero of the story makes a horrible mistake or the villain of the story does a good thing.
@schleepy6362
@schleepy6362 2 года назад
Bruh, have you ever played Dragon Age? You just described my feelings about Solas perfectly. He’s the most understandable shithead I’ve ever seen in a story, so much that he’s going to be the sympathetic villain in the next game. My feelings on him are so conflicted my brain wants to explode. But yeah, if you don’t know him... Ignore me XD
@feanaro2712
@feanaro2712 2 года назад
"Some of you are entitled to the wrong opinion that this isn't a crime." - I laughed out loud at this. Your deadpan delivery of that line was great. On the actual topic of the video, I think the most frustrating characters for me are definitely those who fit into the third category: selfish people getting all the good things because they're the protagonist. Or worse, because they're *popular* and the writers want to capitalise on that. There's a particular character in the Dragon Age franchise who was written in the last game as though they had undergone this huge amount of character growth. The trouble was that most of that "growth" seemed to take place offscreen, and they continued to espouse a lot of the same problematic views that they had shown in the previous games, just with a little more subtlety.
@kakao-katze
@kakao-katze 2 года назад
Now that you mention "off-screen arcs" I suddenly remembered the version of Galinda from Wicked (the book). She ended up having a complete 180 of her character which was just word vomited to the readers how much she has changed once a character she barely talked to died. This was basically as soon as it happened, too. The fact was that it seemed so out of character and so sudden. By that point, I had to return the book to the library and, overall, got disinterested to continue reading, so maybe it wasn't as bad as I remember. But hey, the book was good, just that part was really poor and I am convinced that it was the author was so tired to see Glinda be such stuck up person that he wanted her to have a complete switch. But yeah, I know how you feel. Sometimes I think so much of a story could be improved just by certain characters and their arcs being more fleshed out.
@daubeny6796
@daubeny6796 2 года назад
Morrigan? Or Leliana? Both fall under that description depending on what you did in DAO (Hardening Leliana)
@feanaro2712
@feanaro2712 2 года назад
@@daubeny6796 Prefacing this by saying I’m not trying to start an argument in the comments section of the video, because I know this character has a lot of passionate fans. I was actually referring to Cullen.
@daubeny6796
@daubeny6796 2 года назад
@@feanaro2712 Oh my, didn’t expect him. He is pretty secondary through all first 2 games isn’t he? And he sure as hell wasn’t much of a friendly face up until Inquisition. Damm there even was an ending in Origins in which he went crazy and just went on a mage killing rampage so I guess I can see how Cullen truly isn’t the loveliest guy.
@SupahTheSnowy
@SupahTheSnowy 2 года назад
Greg Heffley
@TreeDragon
@TreeDragon 2 года назад
4:32 Counterpoint: Fluttershy from FiM. While many fans were annoyed that "character who's shy and easily scared has to find ways to be brave and stand up for herself" was used over and over again for the whole show (just with different framing), it's even pointed out in-universe that no one ever learns a lesson once and completely changes as a person, especially over something very ingrained to their personality. I personally think it can work well.
@CharacterDesignForge
@CharacterDesignForge 2 года назад
Can appreciate that! Definitely true in the real world that we don't always get it the first time, but storytelling emulating the real world doesn't always serve to make for a better story. The passage of time, for example. A few other folks have brought the same example up because of the inherent flaw in trying to force an introverted/shy person to be less of either of those things or to "get over it"- when sometimes it's just part of our makeup. But I definitely understand what you're saying too, and feel like in execution there's probably a really good way to show someone struggle to really get ahold of progress like that.
@hyzmarie
@hyzmarie 11 месяцев назад
Yeah! Plus, she remains shy and introverted and kind, but by the end, she no longer lets it cripple her
@DarkstarArchangel
@DarkstarArchangel 2 года назад
"Selfish characters being unfairly rewarded." Ugh . . . Borderlands 3.
@Krakenborn654
@Krakenborn654 2 года назад
This whole video literally just dissects the problems with Family Guy's characters
@brunopereira-gx7dp
@brunopereira-gx7dp 2 года назад
this and other Adult cartoons.
@warrenbradford2597
@warrenbradford2597 2 года назад
3:35-3:51 A character that did absolutely nothing: "The president's safe. I...I did it. I saved him."
@Glarblenuck
@Glarblenuck 2 года назад
Thank you for making this, man. I'm working on a webtoon so having the verification that I'm doing character creation right helps massively.
@CharacterDesignForge
@CharacterDesignForge 2 года назад
All the best on your comic! Lots of other videos on the channel that are more, what to do than what not to do!
@ruthiewitter569
@ruthiewitter569 2 года назад
“It looks like it was drawn in 4 seconds blindfolded” has me absolutely dead Tysm for these videos. I just found your channel, and I’m taking notes. Thank you so much.
@saintakins187
@saintakins187 2 года назад
Parents can't stand Caillou, that fictional character is the definition of a disobedient kid. A honest mistake of Canada, don't worry Canadians we still love you guys.😎
@drgamebit6218
@drgamebit6218 2 года назад
We’re trying to fix that mistake by dumping any dvds of caillou in a cauldron of boiling maple syrup, it’s a start 🥺
@DagobahResident
@DagobahResident 2 года назад
Don't forget they're also responsible for Nickelback and Justin Beiber...
@tomemeornottomeme1864
@tomemeornottomeme1864 2 года назад
@@DagobahResident But we also gave you Ryan Reynolds, Jim Carrey and Keanu Reeves.
@saintakins187
@saintakins187 2 года назад
I mean it's pretty much writer 101, never ever make your main character unlikable because that'll guarantee your story to not be popular. Prime examples Ender Wiggins from Ender's Game, that main character piss me off so much long time ago when that movie came out that I'm strongly advise everyone not to watch that movie because the main character is so unlikable he makes you want to punch your TV screen in blind rage. Throughout the majority of that movie he's just a pansy who gets drafted into the military and whines throughout most of the movie. The last thing that any country needs is a soldier who is not willing to protect us from Alien Invaders, again the movie is so bad I strongly advise you y'all guys not to watch the movie instead watch the Charlie Brown Peanuts movie by Blue Sky Studios or any good movie that will make you feel like a little kid again.
@dannychamberlain6244
@dannychamberlain6244 2 года назад
@@tomemeornottomeme1864 You also gave us Arizonians Steve Nash
@spedsoft1869
@spedsoft1869 2 года назад
“A character that seems to go through the same arc over and over” *Barry Allen flashbacks intensify*
@Woodside235
@Woodside235 2 года назад
As a kid, my character archetype pet-peeve was the "the little sister," especially if she had some kind of supernatural gift. Take for example Haley in American Dragon. Francine in Lloyd in Space. DD from Dexter's Lab. D.W. from Arthur. The list goes on and on and on. They're just so 'perfect,' don't struggle with anything, are usually unchanging, and, (again especially if they have some innate talent or supernatural gift, which they usually do) feel unjustly rewarded. All while making life unnecessarily difficult for their brother, whom is not allowed to retaliate in any way because "she's a sweet innocent girl and your sister, be nice to her." Absolutely drove me nuts as a kid, hated it, made some episodes of some shows unwatchable for me. Because there is usually an episode which address this dynamic head-on, and the sister will in the end show some semblance of remorse for their behaviour, but in the very next episode they'll be back at it again. Not to mention that even though the show acknowledges the bratty behaviour, it's still framed as acceptable because "she's a sweet innocent girl." Meanwhile the one example of "the little sister" that I did enjoy as a kid was Megan from Drake and Josh. Entirely because the show never tries to frame Megan as if she is redeemable or justified for just being a younger girl to the protagonists. She was comically malevolent, and the writers seemed to understand that was the point.
@All4Tanuki
@All4Tanuki Год назад
Unfortunately this is exactly what having a little sister is like.
@NeoVault_
@NeoVault_ 8 месяцев назад
I definitely agree with this. Too often you get the protag's sister being a brat with no pushback. It makes things like Arthur's Big Hit punching DW all the more satisfying.
@glitterboxx19
@glitterboxx19 7 месяцев назад
Dee Dee from dexter's lab is actually a big sister although she does act like a younger sister
@Woodside235
@Woodside235 7 месяцев назад
@@glitterboxx19 Never knew that, huh. But like you said, she acts like a younger sis.
@markchernyshev7785
@markchernyshev7785 2 года назад
This reminds me of Ben 10. Ben started out as a 10 year old kid who was flawed in many ways, and who wasn’t really ready to be the hero of the world, but needed to save the world anyway. He had his moments in the classic series, but when he had his character arc moments, god damnit he had his moments. Whenever Ben does something so selfless even to the people he dislikes, it shows me how good of a character Ben was. Alien Force (the second ben 10 show) had ben as a 15 year old, who was much less flawed. He was wiser, less cocky, and overall more responsible. This was so satisfying, almost like seeing your own child go from a delinquent, to a vigilante. Except, by season 3 of Alien Force, ben was back to his antics. The reason people liked it in the classic series is because Ben was a child, a 10 year old, and even then you could see him develop. Once you saw him develop, and then just, go back, it sucks. In Ultimate Alien he went through the arc again, and whoops, he got immature by Omniverse again, having to get more mature again. Every iteration of Ben (especially from Omniverse) had huge moments of character development, but it stings when the development is something we already saw before.
@puppyDawg128
@puppyDawg128 2 года назад
Didn't Ben 10's creator die partway through Alien Force? If it's true (I got the info from TVTropes, which... isn't always 100% accurate) then that'd explain why things went a bit haywire past that...
@rifqifajarzain9100
@rifqifajarzain9100 2 года назад
Non-character arc or flat/static character stories can be great as long as there are no plotholes and the main character gets enough amount of stakes or the character can't win so easily.
@ThatGamingFurry
@ThatGamingFurry 2 года назад
I see that as Sora from Kingdom Hearts! Not every character I like needs a character arc
@mitchtellers2547
@mitchtellers2547 2 года назад
Forrest Gump is a great example. A very simple character with very simple ambitions and goals, but the real draw is in how the world reacts to him. Though as innocent and happy he is, his challenges come from those he befriends being in far worse states of mind than he is.
@emblemblade9245
@emblemblade9245 2 года назад
A lot (not all) of the Jojo protagonists fall under this. Not much character arc but they’ve got fun personalities, battle powerful villains that they have to use their wits to defeat, and the effect of their actions are felt by others
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