I totally get that. My 5 foot tall wife and I went to a Dream Theater concert in a all with seats. As soon as the band started, every effing idiot stood up. We couldn't see a thing. We left halfway through which totally sucked because I love the band but if we can't see the show, why are we even there?
Aye now…why the hate?! Tall people can’t change their height unless you want to just start chopping limbs for inconveniences. Why do we have to suffer the phone monkeys?
Good to see you Justin, Chrissie Hynde says some 'amazing' thing to fans at gigs. "If any of you eat meat you can go fuck yourselves" was one from a few years back. Billy Joel doesn't sell his front row, then gets his team to go & get people from the back & ask if they'd like to sit at the front. Cool.
Ummm, I can’t unsee the toothless Justin pics😳 I was an orthodontist technician for many years. Your orthodontist did a MAGNIFICENT jobs on your gorgeous pearly whites! The fact that as an adult who performs for a living you were able to manage a palate expander as well! I think my crush on you just became devotion!😻😜💪🏻
I don't really take issue with Chrissie Hynde for this, but she seems to be ignoring the elephant in the concert hall - perhaps if The Pretenders produced some new and interesting music, they would generate a new and interesting fan base.
The people who buy repeat tickets are her core fan base that kept her going in the years when the world couldn’t care less about The Pretenders. It is a weird kind of arrogance on display.
That’s a tall order. It’s not like a band from the 70s and 80s is going to start putting out hit singles and garner the attention of teenagers or something
Went to see Public Service Broadcasting at Rock City in Nottingham this week and they delivered a polite pre-recorded message before the show started about putting mobile phones away, so everyone could fully enjoy the experience. Loud roars of appreciation went up from the crowd and, for the most part, it was respectfully observed. Bloody awesome gig!
I'm a 5'7 dude, it almost 100% guaranteed a tall guy is going to stand in front of me, blocking my view. I hate it, but its my reality. So i don't care...phones whatever, something is always going to block my view. But I hate seats (unless at opera, ballet).
If people want to use their hard earned money to buy the gig ticket/hotel/petrol/travel tickets and use up their annual leave from work to take the time off to queue up early for the rail, because that’s how they want to enjoy their money/time, then let them! If bands start to dictate too much about how fans are allowed to enjoy themselves then where’s the fun in that?
I think she's lost the plot, but 100% agree about mobile phones and ending up watching the gig through a tiny screen in front of you. Infuriating, they should be banned!
Have you ever seen Tool ? At the beginning of each show Maynard James Keenan suggests to the audience that 'we should be present, be together and spend the next two hours on a journey together... so put your f*cking phones away !!!" .... and people do... then for the last song he tells people they can film it. It's great - he pulls everybody in to experience the show together.
I find all the phone stuff hilarious. Why can’t you just ignore them? I have never took. Y phone out and the people that do mean nothing to me. They live rent free in your head.
@@mymodel6 Let's not get all crazy here Whooshing for too much now my friend. Especially, in someone who's probably standing in the middle of the road somewhere 2000 miles away wanting to be the talk of the town just like Chrissie. 😂🤣 Just keeping it a buck! +Peace & Rock n' Roll 4 Your Soul My Friend+ 🤘😜🤘
As far as phones at concerts, I use mine sparingly. I will snap a few pics, maybe video a verse and chorus of a couple of favorite songs. That's enough for me to document the experience. I feel like I miss so much when I am focused on my phone. You can't immerse yourself in the experience if you are constantly filming.
Nick Cave complained about a group of people in the front row a few years ago in Chicago. He was heading into the crowd and blew them off with a “These fucking people are here every night” referring to a group of super goths in the front row and went past them into the middle of the pit. I love The Pretenders and respect her punk attitude but I wouldn’t want to be her server in a restaurant. 😱 I really enjoyed being in the pit on your European tour last year. I got to chat to so many people from all over the place who had driven hours to see you and they were delightful.
Nick Cave still jumps into the pit eh?...I used to like him, bit of an elitist bourgeois wanker these days, and I can handle a famous person dyeing their hair but...when you start dyeing your eyebrows...c'mon man...
I can understand that fans are really pissed off by this. As an artist it's your job to entertain the audience, not the other way around. She should be grateful that people are making so much sacrifices to come see her perform. If you get bored of seeing always the same faces, go do something else.
Well, as someone who is usually the smallest person in the room, it's either the rail or front row balcony seat for me. Otherwise, I can't see a damn thing. 🔭
Think she's massively misjudged how her comments would be received. Regarding mobiles, I completely agree; there's nothing more frustrating than watching a gig with the light of someone's phone distracting you. When I went to see Tool at the AO, they made it clear that anyone recording would be asked to leave. They allowed it during the final track, but that was all.
Saw The Pretenders open for the Foo Fighters in August, and Christie Hynde spent the entire set complaining that “No one came to see us, so…” and a lot of self-pitying comments. “No one’s listening to us. Whatever.” “Your only here to see the Foos.” Basically, complaining. And I heard more than one group of people say they came just to see her. I got to there early just for her. So, her attitude was very disheartening. The band sounded great. It’s basically a tribute band, at this point. She’s the only one left.
I play in a local 80's cover band with a decent following of regulars. I love to see new faces up front while I'm on stage. But I love the regulars when I'm out front of the club smoking pot in between sets. Survival of the fittest for front row as far as I'm concerned. Natural selection.
Hmm.... Lol I'm stuck on this one 😂 I absolutely agree with what you're both saying. But just one (out of many experiences) I've had with the front row clan.... I was at my first Shed Seven gig (2020 brilliant live band, not as good as you guys 😂 but brings back the 90s for me) and was at the front with my friend who was always at the front lol and half way through the show a man from behind us taps the shoulder of the random lady next to me to ask very sweetly "my son is 11, his first shed gig, could he please stand at the rail just for one song?" She just barked back "no!!!" And i looked at her with utter dismay and a little disgust actually. Bit my tongue to not let her know what i thought and instead turned to the man and smiled "he can absolutely stand Infront of me if you're ok with that??". He was so happy and I ended up looking after the lad Infront of me for the rest of the gig. He absolutely loved it!! ❤ I adore live music for the music but also for the people i meet at gigs (...... Some of them lolol).
I was just thinking about this a little while ago, what it must be like for touring musicians seeing the same faces all the time. From a technical point of view, I would say it's best just to be grateful, but not try to dissect it more than that. Between repetition, jet lag, and repeating faces in the crowd, you could really confuse yourself by trying to go deep into where the familiar faces are from, how they got several miles away, etc. It's a great way to mix yourself up about where YOU are. When an artist is tired, all they need to think about is "I am in Milwaukee. Yes, I could swear I saw that fan over there in London, but whatever. I am in Milwaukee..." 😆 Todd Rundgren kept it exciting for himself, on his Me/We Tour, by doing obscure tracks and combining the hits into a medley. A few fans complained, most loved it. The Lemon Twigs' current set list had similarities, yet was significantly different overall, from the last tour I saw... Last time, "As Long As We're Together," one of their biggest songs, was the big encore. This time, they didn't perform it at all. I didn't even notice until days after, it was such a good show. Maybe sometimes the artist isn't doing enough on their own end to keep it interesting for themselves.
We booked the Pretenders early 1980 just after the album came out, I played it to death. They were the most obnoxious bunch of tw@s we had met, apart from the drummer who was very nice. An open university, anyone could buy a ticket, all we got was “I hope there’s no students here” throughout. Whatever.
Great insights as usual! As a small-time bandmember in a Sonoma County, CA arena, I love to hear your experiences about performances. The interaction with audiences is what fuels me the most during a show...so if you happen to touch upon that during your segments, I really "lean in." Oh and OK I'll pre-order! Peace and love.
I thought it was excessive when I was seeing my 16th or 17th They Might Be Giants show (seeing them for the 19th(?) time in Dec.) when I heard front row fans comparing numbers and one of them had hit 400! Some like to go to lots of shows and some, it seems, want to go to ONE SHOW FOREVER and they Will ride that rail. Quoth Cheekface, "What is a stalker but a friend that you don't like?" (from Crying Back).
You're so right about the mobile phones. I've heard of gigs from an Aussie group - 15 years ago the whole crowd was bouncing around - then 5 years ago, same band same city, crowd was stagnant, everyone observing the proceedings thru their devices. Makes a huge difference.
If you're right up on the stage, especially if they're all in-ear monitoring, and they're all using modelling amps it sounds terrible. Best 10 metres back in the centre.
My guitarist just seen the Pretenders in Edinburgh and witnessed this exact thing. Telling her "superfans" who follow them around to make way for "local' (sounds like Tubs from League of Gentlemen) fans to go to the front of the stage.
Feel like I’m very much in the minority in liking where Chrissie is coming from. But I’m incredibly biased here because I never get to follow my favourite bands and only ever see them when they play Scottish dates. Usually I’m working the day of gigs and come immediately afterwards, the touring fans usually have the day free to start queuing whenever they want (I’m not knocking their dedication).
It's about venues making money , VIP1 £270 early entry , VIP2 £230 , GA £57 . That is the ticket system for a band for next year . I'm 5'8 so being at from barrier helps ( if you can afford it ) . Mobile phones filming the whole gig , no way it should be banned , your there to watch the band not your fucking phone. The Japanese system is the best , you buy your ticket in a lottery system and allocated where you will be at the gig , and no phones until they tell you can take a pic . If some one is prepared to queue for 8 hours , well they deserve a good spot . Artists should be pleased to see the loyal fans who follow them from gig to gig year after year . I can see her point , I was in a queue mid-morning when the so called inner circle super fans , told me to move out of the way because more of them were on the way and they are following the band on the world tour . I said i have paid my money and I'm not moving. Big difference between being a fan and a self proclaimed elitist .
If you want them off the front row, then give them a chance to go back stage and meet and greet. If you are seeing the same faces then reward their loyalty by upgrading them from the front row to the wings of the stage. There are better ways of dealing with this.
lovely to see & hear you again Justin. while loving the summer surfer look, you look stunning as a brunette, lets face it, you look gorgeous no matter what. you do you (obviously!) *thank you* for bringing the phone thing up - I couldn't agree more (though putting them in ...bodily places.. hmm....🤨). was watching the earlier clips and seeing this sea of phones, was really ...sad. put your phones away people - BE in the moment - *experience* the EXPERIENCE. nothing that you capture on your phone can do justice to BEING THERE = fully, in the moment. I went to see this band many moons ago. they started with this haunting beautiful version of a popular song of theirs - and (still gives me chills to this day) - slowed it down, just vocals - it was just *gorgeous*. seriously goosebumps just thinking of it - this was before mobile phones, let alone mobile phones that could record, let along record any decent version - as much as that moment lingers in my memory & I would love to hear that again - as it was, in that place, I'm grateful I do NOT have a video of this on my phone - it was a priceless moment in time - where I was fully present, appreciative & in awe of this gorgeous song & the amazing awesome talent of the lead vocalist just singing acoustic (well amplifier but still, just him, singing... (can tell you which band, not which song) thanks for such an interesting discussion point, yeah, it's a lot more complex than my initial reaction - and nice to heard from your point of view as a performer. yeah really interesting, and I think you covered all angles. I just think with such loyal fans, maybe a quiet word with them (not necessarily the band itself, from the support team maybe?) would be far more appropriate than a post on social media. just the way I'd deal with it
I think her intent was different than the way it came across. She inartfully said what she said without putting enough thought into how she said it, and to the unforgiving, perfect people of the internet, it was like chum in the water. They'll be over it by next week. What's really important is that Dream Theater has reunited with their correct drummer and put out a MASSIVE song called "Night Terror". Have you heard it? Would you favor us with your reaction to it? ☮❤
I was at one of her shows recently, which was fantastic BTW, and I suspect some of those “fans” were at the show. Many or most of her shows are clubs, with general admission. If you don’t have a job and can be at the venue several hours early, to queue up, you can be right in front of the stage. She sees and hears from so of these same “fans”, night after night, with their phones, and gifts, and requests. It borders on stalking, and it also kinda sucks for the people around them as well.
Yeah, hard pass on seeing her. I cancelled my ticket, because I was sick. The only reason I bought it was because Wolf Van Halen was supposed to open for the Foo. It changed to the Pretenders. I never liked her sound.
Chrissie is consistent- saw her at Univ Rhode Island in ‘81 and she pulled Pete back when he was playing to the girls up front then objected to some photography- great, memorable show
Quite a few artists who achieve fame at a young age remain mentally stuck at that age forever because their celebrity allows it, and having read her book she definitely falls into that camp. She was pretty graceless back in the day and that doesn't appear to have changed. I'd save your money and go and see a band whose best work wasn't done nearly fifty years ago. Whilst eating a dead animal of your choice if you like.
Agree with you . This July I met the amazing all Japanese Female rock band Lovebites at a small venue 200 people , they normally play 6k plus . They were the most humble and kind band i have ever met , let us watch the sound checks , meet and greet after the gig , photos and chatting to them . Better than some prima donna spouting off .
How is it you're so sure that Chrissie Hynes falls into that same camp my friend? The reason I ask is Chrissie wasn't very young at all when she began to achieve a little bit of fame in her music career. Hynes was already 30 years old before her song "Brass in Pocket" started to create a buzz in the music industry. Just saying... Let's keep it a buck here ya dig? 🤔🤨 +Peace & Rock n' Roll 4 Your Soul My Friend+ 🤘😜🤘
Imagine what the Grateful Dead had to endure all those years. All those familiar faces every night, following you around, supporting your art and life/style, ugh.
Another super insightful commentary from you, Justin. I've yet to make it to a Darkness show but the different shows I have been to..rocking the front rail is what it's all about. When you catch the eye of one of your favourite, all-time artists, it conjurs something magical whilst you sing a couple of words right along with them!
the phone thing is so real. I went to see sleep token back in april and someone infront of me was practicly recording the whole set, with both of their arms holding up the phone. I could hardly see the band on the stage
Jeez, Hynde should be flattered she has such loyal fans, if the locals don't get there first, then that's their problem not hers. A rather self-serving request on her behalf.
Ffs!I only just realized that they had gone!! When did that happen? Mixing desks are so technically brilliant,no need for onstage amps??I can't believe it!!!!😮😮😮😮
It’s hard to believe that anyone that came from punk would be so into policing their fans’ behavior at shows. Fugazi did it for a reason but Chrissie is completely out of touch.
I certainly don't understand people watching a performance through their phones, it begs the question, why did you want to go to the gig in the first place? More importantly, who will ever watch that recording..? 99 times out of 100, not even you will! 😅
Question: If you are in the front row, is going to the bathroom not allowed? Tell me what people do when they have to go and know that they will not be able to make it back to the front row. That's the reason I have never gone to a concert before ☺. Also, I would totally watch Justin enter random garages and critically examine their junk. It made me laugh and thoroughly enjoyed the last video. Thanks Justin!
The number one rule is do not drink say pints of cold beer or drinks before the gig lol . This may sound yuk , but some people just pee them selves to stay at the front , ( not me btw ) . You need to go to a gig at least once , seating if it's a big venue if your not sure , or just get in the crowd and enjoy your self .. I'm 61 and have 9 rock/metal gigs booked for next year already lol
I’ve seen front row people give the railing to fans of bands they aren’t there to see and then just get your spot back after. Idk how often it happens tho
Typically I Love Her Too But Also It Is Also Like you also say , without any Fans there the Artists would have nothing much. Be real glad that you can fill seats at all and more. (:
Haha, i remember when you told someone next to me to put their phone down. I dont understand the need to record at a concert. Maybe take a couple of snaps, and that's it.
I always used to like to be a few rows back at a gig. Better view actually. Over the years, as my mobility has deteriorated, I have liked to be at the rail, as grabbing onto it was the only way I could access an all standing gig until the end. And boy, have I suffered the next day. Worth it for the experience though.Now I can’t do this. Can’t stand at all. Accessible seats are at a premium. And the vibe is not the same. Soon my gig going days are going to end. Hey - ho. That’s life. I’ve been attending gigs since the 70’s. Sabbath, Deep Purple, Queen, Hawkwind, Skynyrd, Motörhead, Alice Cooper, many more. I’ve had my time.The habitual rail riders who go to many gigs on a tour should maybe consider letting others have access to the front row? To have that experience is brilliant. To share is divine x
Sometimes another persons phone can be a boon, the few times I've lost my glasses in the mosh pit I'd have seen nothing but a blur were it not for some 6'6" broad side of a barn who had an excellent view; me too thanx to him recording the whole show which I'm guessing he will watch at least once. Totally agree re too close is not good for balance Yasuko was shouting at her mic only 4' away & I couldn't hear a thing, had to go right back to the sound desk to get her vocals and the stage amplification balanced, but that's Melt Banana for you. fans ca of course take their own in-ears and ask the sound man the frequency for the balanced 'line-out'.
Justin, I have an extra stand for your Guitar, Just popped it in the post 🙏🙏 going off topic now: Mighty Wings, from the Last of our Kind LP is by far the most Brilliant song the darkness has every recorded. I don't now how you feel about LSKD, but Mighty Wings, Hammer and Tongs, and Conquerors (sung by Frankie) should figure into any existing plans to revisit older material to be rehearsed for future tours. There! I said it. I know Rufus will have to work out the stammered drum intro and You may need to either pre-record the keys or hire a player, but I'm certain it will sound positively EPIC! With regard to today's topic: I once gave up my seat at a KISS concert to a small child standing behind me (I'm 6 ft 3) wearing Peter Criss makeup and stood behind her with her dad and made sure she didn't fall. Looking forward to new music in 2025, be well, be strong, your amazing WHAT THE HELL AM I SAYING were ALL amazing! 💋💋💋
She can’t win. I get what she’s saying, but it’s not how this works. I’m taking a break from concerts for a while. Too much money, time, and energy that I don’t have right now. The industry needs an overhaul.
Totally agree with you. I'm going to a concert tomorrow night but likely not going to one for a long time afterwards for the same reasons you mentioned.
Many many years ago I fought my way to the back of the arena through the Yes fans crowding the front of the Reading festival. Soon after I became a Punk. 😊
In my 40 years of being a concert goer, I have only been front row on 2 occasions. Black Sabbath on the Headless Cross tour and Steve Hackett a couple years ago. I was determined to get up front for Sabbath. It was one of the first concerts I ever saw and Tony was a god to me.
As someone who has been on stage many several times, I prefer to sit right in front of the soundboard because that is where everything sounds the best to me. I don't have to be front and center unless I am asked to be there by the performer(s) because they are my actual, real-life friends. I get where Chrissie is coming from and have had to look at the same faces again and again knowing they think they are my BFFs and will go blabbing to their friends about how I looked straight at them, I sang a song for them, etc. Some of these "fronters" think they are so special and deserve special attention from the performers. They need to get over it.
With all due respect to the immense talent of Chrissy Hynde, if she is bored of touring then maybe she should either a) Freshen up the setlist with more deepcuts or b) reduce her touring. Alienating loyal fans is ungrateful. On the phone thing, I try to limit myself to only recording one song per concert I go to. I did 2 songs at ZZ Top and 2 songs at Foo Fighters but wasn’t at front for either.
Peter Frampton asked us to record the first three(as he always plays crowd fave"Lines"third) and then put fones away and enjoy the gig!He's wise as well as wonderful 👍😊❤❤❤
Chrissie Hynde was a huge childhood idol of mine (fellow Ohioan! a badass woman!) who has been working at the Olympic level in her ability to disappoint me ever since. I would like to ask her why she postponed the Amsterdam date days before the show with no rescheduled date, then rescheduled and postponed it again at the last minute, until finally canceling the show altogether, issuing refunds weeks later, less all the fees I paid. I never stand in the front row, but do you think she'd prefer I went up there and asked? I'm a new face! (Wait, am I turning into an asshole too? Darnit!)
Wow! I have a lot of thoughts on this. All buzzing madly in my aging Gen X brain. Justin, you hit it right on when you spoke about the feeling in your body when you are up front. It's my big addiction. For a lot of shows now, the only way to get up close is to buy VIP tickets. And that's getting to the point of ridiculously unaffordable and unsustainable. Not to mention travel expenses etc. I actually long for the old days when I could ensure I had front row tickets by sleeping outside a venue for two days so I was front of the line. Then, you would know who's going to be upfront with you because you just spent two days bonding. While in a way, it maddens me when the same people are up front show after show, but that's me too.. (Although, like you I'm happy a couple of rows back as long as Andre the giant is not in front of me. ). After this crazy year of shows I've been to, I am likely to not do it next year and yes I followed a band around and saw 5 of their shows this year. I'm not happy about what Chrissy said and I get it, but then maybe they can offer an affordable solution for die hard local fans who would love to be up front. I used to think that fan club pre-sales were the answer, but most definitely not. And not all artists feel that way. I had pleasure of being given front row VIP by a fan club for a televised concert because the artist wanted his die hard fans all up front despite what the network might have wanted. And there is one band I will travel to multiple shows to see in 2025... (any hints on touring next year, so we can plan our budgets???)
I liked The Pretenders until I saw them live. Back around 2000 they opened for Neil Young. The Pretenders sounds like their record. it was like no point to listening to them live. boring. Neil Young played for 3 hours and totally jammed out. Harkened back to the good old days of rock and roll. He was a blast. the difference between the 2 couldn't have been more striking. I never listened to The Pretenders again.
The phone thing, i totally understand. Like if you want a couple pics, thats one thing. But some people stand there recording the whole show. 1 those recordings will be shit quality so why bother. But also, why not buy a good quality recording that suports the artist? As for the front row issue, eh. I i dont like being in the front row because its just too loud for me. I also wouldnt go to multiple shows in a row. Regardless, if i paid for front row to my favorite artist and was told to move back for other people who didnt pay for that spot id be pissed. I do kind of understand if it was like the same 10 people constantly preordering the front row completely so others dont even get the opportunity. Idk
@@silverkitty2503 in open seating it's not an issue. The early arrivers, superfans, get up front first - which is what this vid is about. I was talking about "another" phenomenon with reserved seating. Does that help?
This all kicked off a short time ago on the The Alarm 40 facebook group when the statement was issued. I can sort of see both sides of the argument. There's always going to be a hardcore of fans following just about any band at any given time, sometimes shelling out thousands of pounds in tickets, transport costs and hotels in the hopes of possibly getting to as near as touching distance of their favourite artist as they can without being on the actual stage (although I know some will try that too). They plan all this well in advance, make sure they have the funds to do it and the leave from work. Then there's the people that live nearer each venue than the out of town fans, might not always have the money to spare to plan well up front or just miss out on the front row seats or a ticket altogether because they either aren't on the presale list or fell foul to the booking line lottery. I wouldn't like to be the one to tell, for example, the hardcore New Model Army fans that they've got to move back to let local fans move forward (mind you, saying that, they might actually, but I digress). And how would venue staff police that? Would gig attendees have to bring proof of their address so they can go to a designated area (a bit like a "local gold circle", let's say)? Are the band going to come out and say "Show us your proof of address"? Most likely not. And then what about fans that are going to an out of town gig because the band they want to see so badly isn't actually coming to the town or city where they live? I live in Sheffield, for example, and we rarely get the big acts coming to Sheffield now because our arena isn't as nice as it once used to be and probably loads of other reasons. The Pretenders are coming to Sheffield City Hall on November 1st and friends of mine are going (they're locals, but I don't know whereabout their seats are as I haven't asked). Another point would be all seated venues, like the City Hall. On many occasions fans are asked to stay in their seats and not come forward, so people wanting to stand on the pit barrier would *have* to go back to their seats if they tried to move forward. I'm just glad the City Hall is too small now for Elton John, because he openly encourages people to move forward and dance at the front, giving venue staff verbal insults if they try to stop people or move them back to their seats. If it's such a big thing for Chrissy Hynde, she could always do what Billy Joel does and buy up the front row (or front two rows) and let local people sit there, but I suppose she won't or hasn't thought about that. But yes, there's going to be a lot of fans that won't bother going to watch The Pretenders after this tour I think because they will feel unvalued as fans due to the statement.
Wherever possible I like to go to a couple of gigs on a tour - spend one on the rail, and one just in front of the sound desk. Get the best of both worlds that way (because, as mentioned here, the sound is usually poor at the rail).
Two points are being made - the enthusiats and people with phones. 1) Leave the enthusiants be - they love and adore you. They also love all the local fans too. We all love it when we meet other people who love our favorite bands 2) Phones - its a double edge sword. You can't tell me you never watch live you tube videos that were filmed by someone with their phone. Love it or hate it - capturing those live moments that will never happen again and posting for the world to enjoy are precious. I totally get it though it is super annoying when half of the audience is filming the dang concert.
True story: I was working in London in early 2000s in a fancy organic shop in Camden Town and Chrissie Hynde walks in one day. She asked me if we had any non dairy ice cream or something. Aparently it run out, she asked if I could check at the back if possible. I said sure so I went down to the big freezer and looked everywhere thoroughly and there was none. I went up and said Im really sorry etc…She didnt even thank me or said anything at all, just turned away and walked off. She came off as very rude to be honest.
