I've always said ALL this.....but kept it to myself because of all the blind mice following what the Master said!!!!!!! Great explananation Jim.....as always!!! 73!!! N8SOT
Great information! Just starting out, a few days ago I passed the Tech & General exams at the same time, and while I'm waiting for my call sign, I'm taking the time to circle back to learn the principles behind the exam questions that I crammed for. I'm not content on just having learning the correct answers, I want to understand the technical basis behind the questions. So I'm a sponge, binge watching your videos. I'm about 90 miles south of you... when I get on the air, I'd like to try and make you one of my beginning contacts. 73, Conrad
1/2" copper tube works very well in my shack too. Thank you for the video. It was nice to chat with you on 20 the other day. Thank you for the information on the old sb-230.
Not intending to start WW III but: "In 1942, Herbert G. Ufer was a consultant working for the U.S. Army. Ufer was given the task of finding a lower cost and more practical alternative to traditional copper rod grounds for these dry locations (Arizona and New Mexico). Ufer discovered that concrete had better conductivity than most types of soil. Ufer then developed a grounding scheme based on encasing the grounding conductors in concrete. This method proved to be very effective, and was implemented throughout the Arizona test site. After the war, Ufer continued to test his grounding method, and his results were published in a paper presented at the IEEE Western Appliance Technical Conference in 1963.[1][2] The use of concrete enclosed grounding conductors was added to the U.S. National Electrical Code (NEC) in 1968. It was not required to be used if a water pipe or other grounding electrode was present. In 1978, the NEC allowed 1/2 inch rebar to be used as a grounding electrode [NEC 250.52(A)(3)]. The NEC refers to this type of ground as a "Concrete Encased Electrode" (CEE) instead of using the name Ufer ground. " - W8TRN, Jim, love the NO PARKING sign!
Thanks for clearing the air on bonding and grounding. I too was not sure of how to connect the bonding busbar to the house AC so I measured the resistance between the grounding pin on the AC plug of my Astron RS-35M and its chassis ground stud. Zero ohms. Done! My bonding system is grounded to the house AC ground.
I am in same boat. I feel like he was describing bonding (but calling it grounding) but I don’t understand how to connect the ground bus bar to electrical as he said to do. He didn’t describe it either. I’m confused.
I have a second floor station and have no grounds except for what's on the electric cord. Never a problem. I have a transceiver, its power supply and that's it. I use a G5RV Jr. dipole and have worked from the U.S. "2-land" to Japan, middle east, Russia, most of Europe, all continental US., etc. Not a copper pipe or ground strap anywhere close by. I just unhook everything when a storm is on its way. Never had a problem.
40 years licensed and I have never had an external RF ground. I have nearly always used dipoles or yagis with baluns so there was never any need. In recent years, here in the UK, adding an external ground can be dangerous because a lot of modern houses use Protective Multiple Earthing. This means there is no electrical ground. The earth return goes via the neutral cable back to the electrical substation. If you drive an earth rod into the ground and attach it to your radio there can be an electrical potential between the outer casings of your equipment (which is ultimately connected to the electrical earth) and the rod you hammered in. To make matters worse, that differential could be as high as 230v if there was a fault and it would not trip the RCD in the power distribution unit if you came in contact with it. The current earthing craze is all about reducing the RF noise floor but I have not seen any evidence that it does.
Thank you Mr. Hudson. You said it much better than I could have. Excellent. To others, read what Gordon wrote more than once and let it sink it. It is a good lesson. 73, Jim W6LG
How can be an electrical potential difference (230V) between the equipment casings and the ground when the casings is tight to gnd through a thick wire? The current usually "selects " the path with the least resistance so how can a body touching the casings seating on a concrete slab or even on bare ground can be in danger as long as the casings is tight to gnd? Some old equipment does not have a GND plug and needs an electrical gnd. However some wall outlets GND connection might fail.I found a few during the years that even if they have provisions to be connected to GND they were not. .. I use 1 inch wide braided copper strap as Jim uses tight to 1.25" copper pipe 4 feet long burried into the GND ...
I have always thought about making an alternate path from the shack with rods to ground would be a bad thing. The electricity needs to make it back to the service panel then to the transformer. The electrical system already has two grounds (Neutral and common boded ground). I think I'll will now do a common shack ground (copper pipe) with a 6 awg wire that is runs back to the service panel ground rods and place a rod at the antenna feed point with a attached lead back to the service panel rods. Thanks for another great video.
Thanks for the great info Jim. I currently have braided straps to 1/2” copper pipe, then via flat copper to a ground rod. From your video I now understand this does nothing for me. My service panel is 75’ from the shack. Do I understand correctly that I could run a wire from the copper pipe to the AC ground in a receptacle box? I’ve watched the video twice and still not clear. Kevin W6AAE
Hi Jim, hope you're well. Just finished watching a video presented at the recent ARRL Dayton Convention titled "Ground Is A Myth" by Kristen McIntyre and immediately thought of you. Please watch if you haven't already. 73, Joe, W2JMD.
This guy gets it!!! Thankyou for making this video! Were can I find the UL listed " bonding" strap with holes? Lol. I get it, use what you have. I could not agree with you more about bonding/ grounding. Keep up the good work. Those that do not understand, will be along soon enough to protect there ego's and authorita. 😉
Very helpful!! Quick question: how do I connect the copper pipe to electrical panel/common point ground? My shack is also on the second floor and running a wire or pipe strap downstairs would be about 100 feet. Don't get me wrong, I can do that but everyone tells me 100 feet could become a second antenna. Thanks!
Thanks for your wisdom. I often use an Icom 703 QRP radio in my car with a magmount antenna. I recently read the manual (!) for the 703 and it explicitly says *not* to use it on a magmount. Is lack of grounding the reason for this instruction? If so, is there anything I can do in a vehicle to remedy this?
Jim enjoy the way you explain things..question, when you tie your " boxes" as you said your talking about the actual radio, or power supply ? Right using a already provided case screw or nut and attach the ground strap to that and run to a common point ( copper pipe) then running 1 say no 10 solid wire to the main power grounding point? Correct?. I'm new to this whole thing and trying to learn it.
Thanks for another great video Jim! Thanks for helping many of us sort through the mess of grounding. I do have a question: Does the length of strap used for the final connection to the home electrical common point ground raise any concern? I am in a similar situation to the past experience you shared. I have a second floor shack in my new home. I can certainly ground my equipment individually to a pipe or ground bus at my desk, but I would need to run a strap at least 60 feet to reach my home electrical common ground. I have heard many say to keep that connection as short as possible. Thanks again and look forward to learning more.
No. Again, we are talking about a redundant AC electrical ground and NOT an RF ground. You may not need that separate wire at all. In fact, you probably don't need what you are describing. Keep saying to yourself, there is no magic RF ground. There is no magic RF ground. 73, Jim
Your copper pipe buss is connected to the chassis of one or more pieces of equipment. The chassis of each piece of equipment is connected to the ground wire of the AC cord. So, you have multiple, parallel connections to house ground already.
@@ham-radioMy rig is grounded to the outlet through the negative pole of the power supply. The negative power supply output is tied to earth ground - at least in my Yaesu supply.
New ham here. (KD7LWL). I've just started in HF and have my first HF gear. I have a transceiver, a power supply, an antenna tuner, and a monitor hooked to the transceiver. My old eyes really needed that! My antenna is a Vibroplex endfedz 135' wire. I heard you say you're not a fan, but my space is limited - and so far this antenna has served me well. I'm in a quandary about this bonding and grounding issue. I'm 'barefoot' in regards to only using 100 watts (stock Yaesu FT 710) of power. My shack is in a 10x12 Bully Barn that was wired up by my neighbor who has been an electrician his whole life. I've got my own breaker box in the shack. Do I really need to bond my limited amount of gear? And am I already 'grounded' in my situation?
Another great video, Jim. The strap with the holes you showed looks like galvanized strap. Is there any concern about connecting that to copper where you have dissimilar metals in contact with each other? Could that be a point of corrosion thus negating the effects of you keeping everything at the same fround potential? 73 de N6EF.
Jim, I operated my station for a number of years using a dipole and balanced line without a ground (other than that provided by the electrical supply system), and didn't have a problem until recently. After some experimenting, I found my microphone was picking up the radiated RF. After more experimenting with cabling, shielding, and ferrite beads, I still couldn't get rid of the interference. After some research, I tried an Ufer ground - my station is in the basement, and concrete floor is readily available. A sheet of aluminum about 1 foot square was laid on the floor with a weight and a screw for connection. This is connected to the radio and tuner. Sure enough, the concrete conducts plenty well, and RFI is completely controlled. Sure was easier than installing a rod, and the building ground is the re-bar in the foundation also.
Hello Jim Thank you for sharing your thoughts regarding RF Ground . Essentially electrons are attracted to ground , I agree with you regarding no required ground for TX , however I believe that a basic grounding system can help radio reception , grounding a radio receiver can increase the potential difference between atmospheric electrons & ground , the radio being in between it's path to ground may help the receiver to receive weaker signals , this is a common practice in short wave radio receivers . Direct antenna ground will slug down any unwanted high voltage insofar as localized atmospheric static electricity , this is normally within the hot open plane locations ,hence this will help prevent damage to the primary receiving circuits within the receiver , any stations within the heavily built suburban locations is not likely to require a grounded antenna . For wide open plane dry hot terrian locations a switched antenna ground is recommended , the outer chassis of the antenna ground switch can be engaged in order to slug down static electricity when there's high atmospheric electro static suspected ,ie, high dry hot winds with dust particles can generate thousands of volts , normally basic weather monitoring equipment is required for ground switch operation times , particularly if the station is vacated for a period of time , then of course it's a good measure to engage the ground switch or ideally disconnect the antenna from the receiver . By enlarge for general conditions an Antenna ground is not required , in fact a grounded antenna chassis can slug down weaker radio signals , however a basic radio ground can help reception to a certain extent . In summery a basic radio operations grounding system will depend on the station location & weather conditions . I hope that the above has been of some help . Julian Robertson Electronics engineer England
Here is my question. I read in the AARL book it also says to run a solid #6 bare around the perimeter of the radio shack aka home. Is this needed? if so whay does it do? Thanks I really learned a lot from watching your videos so thanks for all the tips and tricks.
A very good presentation as always. As you mentioned many implementations using external unbonded grounds are dangerous. I am probably as puzzled as you are as to the need for this "RF ground" in most situations. Ignoring lightning protection issues a transceiver with a totally floating chassis connected to a dipole will work fine. IE a 12v rig running from a battery. All of my gear has the standard electrical safety ground connected, however it is all fed from a common mode choke so you could argue that it all floats at RF. I am using a ground mounted vertical with buried radials for my HF FT8 so I guess you could argue that is an RF ground. This is a bit sketchy but the radial plate does have a connection to the house safety ground. (Though I admit the conductor is undersized). I believe that similar bad engineering is fairly commonplace. I am in the UK and the house is wired TNCS, in theory if the outer conductor of the electricity cable got severed the load current could flow through my antenna ground. Sorry I digress...
I believe you are correct if you have only one piece of equipment. In the case of multiple pieces of equipment -- transceiver, power-amp, AC-to-DC supply, tuner, etc. -- the copper buss provides a reference, consistent equipotential via low-impedance at RF frequencies to all the equipment. Thus all the equipment will have a common base RF potential. If everything is at the same base/chassis RF potential then it is unlikely that you'll have the differential RF voltages in the shack associated with undesirable RF radiation. Note that I do not call the copper buss a "ground." It is a means for sharing an equipotential for all the equipment via a low-RF connection point. It happens to be at ground potential because the house AC wiring's ground feeding the equipment is attached to the equipment's chassis and that chassis is what is connected to the copper buss. You can attach another wire to the house ground but you are simply adding another parallel conductor to the wall socket. Visually satisfying but electrically redundant. Note that if you run a wire from the copper buss to anywhere other than a local wall socket ground -- for example, out to another ground rod -- you are providing a potentially lethal alternative power distribution/return in the case of an AC fault. The electrical codes are very clear and strict about providing additional/alternative power fault returns except via the ground wire running in the romex back to the electrical panel. RE your radial. I would not call them ground. They form an equipotential plane for the antenna and happen to be sitting in dirt. As for the wire running from them, note that the NEC requires that any wire running from these be run to a terminal block exterior to the house. That terminal block has connections to all the ground rods. Then ONLY ONE WIRE is run from that terminal block to the ground/neutral buss in the main disconnect breaker box. This one wire simply provides the one and only reference potential to the house. There is no power current running in this wire even with an AC fault. In the US and probably similar in the UK, at the power pole there is a center-tapped transformer providing power. All power currents run run to this transformer and thus in the main power wires. Dirt ain't gonna conduct. Ain't gonna be any power running in the dirt back to the pole and transformer.
@@713allen thank you for the reply, here in the UK we have a number of different popular wiring schemes, mostly depending on the age of the property. Our house happens to have a modern TNC-S system. The supply comes in on a large coaxial style cable. The centre being the "live" and the outer being ground and neutral combined. We do not have the centre tapped transformer arrangement you have. (also our supply to most houses is via buried cables). The soil here is relatively conductive (I live in an area with a high water table). There is of course a possibility of the sheath to the incoming supply getting severed at some point and that could create a dangerous situation.
Jim is it okay to wrap a copper wire around the copper pipe that ties the boxes together and then fasten the other end of the wire to the ground prong of a standard electrical plug and plug it in an outlet? Does that achieve the goal of connecting the copper pipe to the electrical system?
Is placing an external ground rod outside of the shack and bonding it to the copper water line acceptable? The water line is bonded to the electric panel ground rod.
It’s an interesting discussion because I see a lot of people saying that you need a rod outside your shack to ground everything. One of them says ground your power supply, my power supply doesn’t have a connection for a ground wire/strap but it does have a three prong plug and all my plugs and outlets are up to code. I do have my radio and tuner connected to bus bar type setup. I know you say it needs to get back to the houses common ground via the breaker panel, but how exactly do I get it there? My shack is in a spare bedroom, do run a wire out to the garage and plug it directly into the ground bus? Run it around the house to the common ground? Open the outlet and piggyback on the green wire? I have searched places and can’t find the information because 1. Im getting conflicting information, 2. I’m probably not looking in the right area of the code/can’t find it. Can you elaborate on various methods of accessing the houses common ground? Thanks Jim, 73
Finally common sense. Hi Jim here's my latest setup. I have a metal shipping container connected to an off-grid solar system for my shack. First, all my solar panels have an unbroken common ground to an 8' grounding rod to the inverter inside the shipping container (unbroken). I have a common ground of a 1" copper pipe inside the container that runs 40' to my radio room on the other end of the container to the Solar inverter ground system. The inverter ground system consists of an inverter, battery bank, and AC distribution panel and they all connect to the 1" copper pipe. My antenna is a 12.4 (40') DX Commander inverted antenna mounted to the top of the metal container (great ground plan) with 32 radials fanned down around the container. Every piece of equipment including the radials connects to the 1" copper pipe. The inverter interference is minimal with the use of ferrites on all AC and DC power lines. When I installed the 1" copper pipe as a common ground my noise floor dropped lower than when my shack was in the house. Great Video Jim Wish you the best of health KN6TUX 73
Hi Jim, thank your for your instructional videos. Question: in your system as you described it to us, do you also ground your seperate audio equipment?
I have no outboard audio equipment at the ham desk. My transceivers have built in systems that work great. At the RU-vid desk, it is bonded to a small mixer. There is some ambient noise and trash in the audio that I need to fix. 73, Jim
@@ham-radio Thanks for your response Jim. On my HAM desk I have some external audio equipment (Behringer) that enhance the audio and - via a mixer - feed into the transceivers. I experience quite a lot of RF interference. At the moment I do not have RF chokes installed, nor have I grounded anything directly. Note: here in the Netherlands Earth and ground are two sperate leads in the mains. We als have ‘ground-leakage switches’. When these detect between 15 and 30mA current of leakage, they immediately switch of that main group or groups. That makes it inadvisable to connect neutral to earth in our case. Our earth connection however is a “real” earth. Lot of info, but I’m hoping you have some further advice…
@@ham-radio That SM7B is doing you no favours either. They are infamous for low output and at this relaxed distance your S/N ratio is poor allowing the mic amp noise to be clearly audible. Julian's video describes this best ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-T8HwNnJAjbQ.html.
All my equipment is connected to an aluminum angle iron with a #10 insulated flexible wire. The angle iron is connected to a ground rod on the outside with a #6 insulated flexible wire which is connected to that of my electrical installation. My antennas, before entering the house, are grounded with protectors and this rod is also connected to that of my electrical entrance (TELCO). I think it's compliant with a minimal install.
Hi Jim. Great video, thank you. Would it be benificial to bond the case of the shack computer with the rest of the radio gear on the bench? I have some RFI issues in the shack which I plan to try to fix soon and currently I have no bonding in the shack whatsoever.
IMHO the copper pipe provides an RF signal equipotential point shared by the radio equipment, keeping them at a common RF voltage. As the computer has no need to share this point, it does not need connecting to it and may even suffer by doing so. Rather, isolate the computer via ferrites on the power and any other cables coming into the computer. For HF, 31 mix toroids work well. Jim is a fan on clip-on ferrites. Note that the MIL handbook shows computer cabinets connected to the AC/lightning grounding systems but NOT to the RF signal equipotential system (=copper pipe). Summary: connect the cases of the radio equipment to the copper pipe. Do not connect the computer case. Use ferrites on all cables.
I have moved into an older house that only has 2 pronged plugs. I have a new grounded 200 amp electric panel on the outside wall close to my equipment. Any suggestions on how I would connect the equipment so as to be properly grounded. Running wires through the wall is no problem. Appreciate any suggestions. Great video!
A #6 wire to the electrical panels common point ground located below the panel. All ground wires for water, electrical service, telephone and cable connect. 73, Jim
This is wonderfully explained, thank you! One question: Once I've strapped my equipment to the pipe or bar, does that bar have to then be connected back to the electrical ground (where it enters the house)? Like the fellow you mentioned, I also have my ham shack on the opposite side of the house from where the electrical system enters (as well as on another floor). It seems to me from what you've said here that the simple act of plugging the transceiver, etc. into the house current already makes the necessary connection to the electrical ground, so running the pipe or bar back to the electrical box ground would be superfluous at best. Do I have this right or am I forgetting something? Cheers!
@@kellywaldo3215 Yes, I did! Not long after this, I found another of Jim's videos (I don't remember which now) in which he stated clearly that the grounding bar should *not* be connected to ground rod where the shack is on the opposite side of the house from the electrical service ground. The grounding bar in the shack is only for keeping the connected devices at the same electrical potential. Hope this helps!
@@thormusique thanks! I feel like that was the message here (no connection back to “house ground”) and just bond all the equipment together. That’s what I’m going with!
wonderful video. As it happens, I just bought an electrical power supply for my first radio after running it with a battery for a month. Finally had the 'courage' to feel convinced that the grounded plug actually provided adequate electrical safety without a supplemental outside copper 'ground' rod that had to be connected to the main electrical panel to comply with code. I had been wondering about the utility of bonding the equipment together to ensure similar voltages without a connection to an external ground rod. Could you express your opinion about a 'ground plane' of copper sheet under the equipment, sold by for example DXEngineering? My major question about your video is what do did you mean by connecting the copper bonding pipe on your desk to the electrical house ground? Is there a wire/braid in addition to the fact that these devices are connected themselves to the house electrical ground via their electrical plugs? If so, how is it done? Thank you.
I think from the common point ground in the shack using some stuff from DXE, that is the end of the connection. All of that equipment is in the same electrical plane. From there to the panel does not matter much. It just needs to be good at AC/60Hz. 73, Jim
@@ham-radio Do I understand that you are proposing to install only a copper bar to connect all the equipment but that this bar should not subsequently be connected with a cable to the electrical ground of the house? Unless since the station is already powered by the 120v which is already grounded to it, this is sufficient? In my station, I installed an aluminum angle iron behind the desk and the equipment is connected with #10 flexible wires. This is connected to an SPG, which is right next to it with a #6 wire in the station where my antennas are also connected on an angle iron and where the PLDO, RJ-45 and rotor wire are connected. From the SPG to the ground rod there is a maximum of 15 feet (maybe 10). It is connected to my electrical input which is just above. My antennas before entering the house are also grounded since the entrance is in another place and connected to the rod of the station by a wire #6 (15 feet). Am I making a mistake?
@@VEChaplin AC wall socket ground comes via the power cable to the chassis of your equipment. The chassis of the equipment connects to the copper pipe buss. The more equipment connected this way, the more parallel ground paths to house ground you have. An additional wire from the copper buss to the wall socket house ground is visually satisfying but electrically redundant.
@@713allen This is only good for AC grounding in a residential installation. The SPG of the shack must also be connected to the same potential as well as that of the antennas before entering the house.
Great video Jim. As always, got a question about the UK I'm unable to run a ground I'm on the third floor, and in the UK we can't connect to the electrical system (PME) big nono also can't run a suitable wire from the shack out the window to a ground rod, should I still bond all the equipment together not in a daisy chain but all to a single spot even though I still can't connect to any ground? Thanks again David
@@ham-radio thanks, Jim the only AC ground we can use by default in the UK is the one via the power supply or amp on the 3-pin plug, I just wanted to know if it was worth bonding the equipment together thanks.
I know your comment is from awhile ago, but do they have surge protector power strips with TV aerial connectors on them in the UK? That might work for you. @@PebbleWeb
Thanks for the information! there is so much confusing information on grounding out there, and this really made sense. I do have 1 question however. I always unplug my coax when not in use. When there is a lot of wind or a storm, I have observed sparks coming off the end of my coax, and so I was considering installing a ground rod to bleed of this static electricity, but after watching your video I'm having second thoughts. My question is, if I don't install a ground rod; what is going to prevent the built up static electricity from damaging my radio when the coax is connected to the radio?
Hey man, the shield of your coax is connected to the ground of your radio, thus if you follow the advice here the shield of your coax is electrically grounded.
Since I just have a simple station and since you mentioned "braid", is it safe for me just to use the braid of used RG8 coax and strap it to a copper pipe grounding buss behind my desk and connect it to a grounding rod outside my house?
In my opinion: NO! All grounds must go back to the maein panel. Run separate straps to the common point at the desk and connect that to the elctrical ground. 73 Jim
I think I have read all the comments here and don't find the answer to the question to raised in the video. "The ham station is on the opposite side of the house where the incoming electrical service is located and grounded" . If I understand you correctly, it is not possible to ground the station to the service ground location. So how do I get all the station to the service location for a connection? Thanks for you videos and the wealth of experience, knowledge and the effort use to create the videos...73. N5JAJ Pat Warren
I cover this is the video. You just make sure that you have a good electrical ground at the station. If needed you can run an AC ground in common with what is already there back to the panel. 73, Jim
I have already run a ground rod outside my second floor shack that goes back to the main ground rod via a system of rods and #6 copper wire. I should be good to bond to that since it is tied into the common ground point, correct? Second question is, how do/ did you bond your bonded pipe to the electrical system? Did you run a wire/strap to a ground screw in an electrical outlet?
If your system follows the NEC with respect to many ground rods and antenna systems as they show it their code/article, then good. My connection to the water pipe above this room was hose clamps. The room has shielding in the walls and that too is connected to the pipe. 73, Jim
@@ham-radio Ok, thank you! I guess your shielding is then bonded to the common ground from inside the wall. Yeah, I have 8ft rods, 16 ft apart (where possible) bonded with #6 copper. Thanks for the great videos and thanks for responding. -73!
The NEC says that one or many ground rods should connect to an external-to-the-house terminal block and then ONLY ONE WIRE runs from that terminal block to the ground/neutral buss in the main disconnect breaker box and then distributed to the grounds in the house. This requirement relates to AC fault safety and multiple current paths being possibly lethal. If you connect your equipment to the ground rod outside your shack, would the AC power wire grounds in the wall socket now be connected to this ground rod via your power cords and equipment chassis? Is this a multiple path for AC faults to return to the breaker box?
Hi Jim. Wouldn't the wide strap (from the equipment) be defeated when it is connected the the earth ground at the power point, as it then runs in a smaller diameter round wire, back to the house ground? As usual you have given me much to think about. Regards Glenn from VK.
There is no RF ground. We are not talking about RF to the panel. Just a normal safe ground connection for AC in the event of a fault. Nothing to do with RF. 73, Jim
So if my station has a power supply, transceiver, tuner and amp, I should have a strap (one of the examples you show) coming from each piece of equipment to a common point. This would be 4 into 1, correct? At the point they all come together, how do you recommend that is tied into my electrical system? Thanks for the great video! 73, K8JLW
@@ham-radio I'm assuming this wouldn't be on a wall outlet correct? Although my shack in on the 2nd floor, it is right above the main power inlet to the house. Is it OK to go through a feed panel and straight down with wide flat braid to tie into the intersystem bonding termination?
The summary of what Jim and other wise men (i.e. MIL spec folks) says is to connect everything to a "signal reference system" which has a extraordinarily low RF impedance. This assures that all the RF equipment is tied to a common reference point at RF. From an RF point of view, you are done. Next, from a safety point of view, that RF reference system needs to be tied back to the household baseline potential (i.e. "ground"). So, connect all your equipment to a nice copper pipe (=signal reference system). Then, maybe tie that copper pipe with a wire (maybe even a simple #12) to the household safety ground at an outlet in the room (probably unnecessary and maybe inadvisable -- see below). Because of what Jim says and skin effect, there will be no RF traveling in this wire. RF generated by the equipment stays isolated among this equipment with this low RF impedance link. Tying the copper pipe elsewhere with braid or anything RF-conducting does nothing -- there is no such thing as RF currents coming up from the earth necessitating an RF ground! Note: running a separate wire back to the electrical panel is unwise because now there are two routes for AC fault currents to travel and trip a breaker (1. ground wire in the electrical cord and 2. this other long ground wire you added back to the panel ). This is an NEC no-no because there is a potential for lethal voltages to develop along the dual paths.
@@713allen thanks for helping me towards understand this concept of bonding but I just wanted to confirm my understanding. After bonding my shack equipment to a copper bus bar, I could then run a wire from the bus bar to a nearby AC receptacle’s ground screw so that the bonded equipment/bus bar are tied into my home’s AC ground system thereby keeping the equipment at the same voltage potential? Thanks in advance and 73.
@@ham-radio I like that direct blunt answer. But assuming the coax is out of the house, how can you mitigate it from getting inside your house. Realizing whatever you do can't guarantee anything. And would like to paraphrase a quote from, Ke0og. 'When lightning falls from perhaps 50K feet in a few milliseconds, It doesn't ask permission and has a mind of its own'.
Interesting video, I was always told keep my station grounds as short as possible, but either way I have braided straps going from my amps and radio to a ground bar then connected to a 4 gauge ground wire to an 8 foot ground rod. Probably over kill but they're grounded.
NO NO NO. Watch the video and listen. It is not overkill because an RF ground does not exist. The ground you describe may be dangerous and may be a violation of the NEC. What you have been told is wrong. 73, Jim
@@ham-radio I know next to nothing about electricity and have been listening to those that “know “ then you come along (I have great respect for you and service to the ham community) and challenge the handful of ideas I was beginning to consider implementing . I want to get a better handle on it because a RU-vidr damaged the exact radio model I have after leaving it connected to his antenna. I really want to avoid that problem. Any specific manual (not code) on ham radio grounding you recommend? Thank you
@Jim W6LG, would you recommend Ward's ARRL Grounding and Bonding book? From your description of incorrect ARRL Grounding descriptions I was wondering if you meant Ward's book.
Thank you Jim,I have an order for ARRL book “ grounding and bonding for the amateur radio” I hope it’s not full of error because I wouldn’t know the difference.
It is not full of errors. There is a lot of good information it. Don't always trust some of the information from self appointed experts you find on the internet.
So two questions question 1 should I run a ground wire from the antenna mount to the ground? Question two should I use a high band and low band bypass filter on my coax so I don't bother my neighbors?
Hi Ken, the answer to number 1 is no for performance. If lightning is the concern, then yes. It will need to handle a huge amount of current in a split second. A small cable would be vaporized. A low pass filter is what we typically used. The idea being that harmonics would be suppressed. I run "full power" in my new neighborhood and so far no complaints. So my answer is no. I doubt that you have harmonics coming from you equipment that would bother a neighbor. Most of what we were dealing with was inerterference to the very low TV channels. Those channels no longer exist. Sorry for the long delayed answer. A cancer diagnosis and chemotherapy changed much the last few days. 73, Jim
When someone starts talking about the importance of an "Earth Ground" (dirt, ground rods, etc.) for RF performance, ...for Electrical Safety, ...for Lightning Protection, they may be flummoxed when you ask them "So, what about aircraft? Do they need an 'Earth Ground' to have a good RF signal, for Electrical Safety, for Lightning Protection?" It will be at this point that they may (hopefully) realize that their understanding is incomplete. At the very least, they'll be forced to clarify what they were trying to say.
So if the plug/receptacles in a house are grounded and I'm on 2nd floor and I plug my power/radio/tuner into my house receptacles, then my station already has the necessary ground (through the grounded receptacles) and all that is needed is to make sure that each piece of equipment is connected to its own metal plumbing strap that is also connected to a free floating copper pipe segment (say 3 feet long) that can be put anywhere in the station? AND....no need to fuss about creating some other new ground connection to the main panel? Thank you for your help
My question is, what about someone running an all solar, or other battery powered only station? If there is no mains connection and no mains powered PSU, then there would be no proper connection to the house's or building's proper ground. in such a case, would a ground rod outside be best practice in such a situation? And, if we are talking theory, would there be a difference between a an actual shack or shed with solar or battery only power, and a house with a room that mains power but the house power is not connected to the radio system? At what point is a radio station separate enough from the electrical system to safely not need to be grounded to the house main electric panel or main ground? I've asked the question before about grounding to a rack mount set, but I'd also like to hear your opinion on that if you have one. Should the metal racks also be strapped to the station ground for voltage potential or not?
This is a video that has nothing to do with solar or batteries. You are asking several questions not just one. I have no experience with that kind of system. There maybe some else who has the answers. I have no idea. For metal racks, like my desk here, yes I connect all of that stuff to the electrical ground. Regards, Jim
Thanks Jim! I need some help... I live in a rental home. I want to get involved in ham radio, but I'm not permitted to add another ground rod for HR equipment. Can I start buying radio equipment without worrying about grounding it?
Dennis, you do not need a ground rod and in fact, it can be a safety hazard. Do not worry about a ground rod. It is a huge misconception Dennis. Regards, Jim
Thank you sir, I cringed when I heard some folks were using that grounding plug to open the electrical ground at the outlet. This is especially wrong if you are using a switching power supply as that ground is shielding the power supply noise. There are a lot of old and out dated and or just wrong information on youtube about station bonding. Basically the NEC code says all earth bonding has to be connected to the UFER earth connection at your load center or power panel as some call it. Thank you sir as this seems to be the most contested subject in HAM radio.
Hi and thanks. Let's talk a little about your comment. A Ufer grouding is common in some areas but not everywhere. In some places they use a driven rod or two driven rods. Ufer was a guy; a smart guy. With the switching supply that has a two wire or two conductor AC plug, what is your recommendation? And, would you do the same for all devices that do not have a ground connection at the AC plug? I not only cringed, I yelled NO at the screen when Bob Heil recommended cutting off the pin at the AC plug. I inspected hundreds of Ufer grounding systems with the rebar installed with short length above the stem wall. Thanks for writing. 73, Jim W6LG.
If I understood your point, you bonded each device to a common destination ground copper pipe. The goal is to keep all the levels the same across your devices. In my workplace (network engineer) there are various devices which show a ground point but out of bad habit, we never use them. Mostly because we have never been educated on grounding and or bonding. What about antenna grounding outside? I'm under the assumption that your permanent antenna should be grounded at the point it enters the house. Thanks! Pete KF0OQA
Hi Jim so i understand attach the radio and other things to the the copper pipe using a wire strap BUT then how are you connecting that copper pipe to the house ground system? do you mean connect it to the plug socket ground? You can get ESD earth bonding plugs in the UK would that be ok to attach the copper pipe to that? Hope you understand what im asking? Thanks M7WLG here and yes i got my call sign from you lol
@@ham-radio I assume this is an empty copper pipe. Are the couplings screwed and or soldered. I ask because I was inside a 911 tower shack once and every coupling and connector in their EMT conduit runs had a drilled and taped jumper with ring lugs across every connection and there were hundreds. It was very pretty and Meticulously done with # 10 green/ yellow striped stranded wires. When I asked why such an effort was done. The answer was short. Lighting. Bear with me please. As I am wrighting this the storm that is approaching me is producing 480 strikes per minute. My coax is outside right now. Should it be grounded? The lightning in the south is strong, and every decade or so there are long-duration bright white pluses that go straight down to the ground. These, are terrifying, to say the least. Having lived in the SF Bay area, sometimes we would usually get maybe 3 Weak pathetic strikes. I only saw one storm in 15 yrs that produced a couple of hundred strikes in total. It was The front-page story in, San Jose Mercury Newspaper. My antenna is mounted in a tree 4 ft from my house on a metal mask. This is why I want a ground rod under my antenna. I have seen a large oak tree hit and the scar came down to within 8 ft of the ground only to travel 30 ft out on the lowest limb jump 3 ft to a metal gutter then into a security light circuit, then jump out of the romex in the attic to a bare #8 ground that went to a metal fireplace chimney pipe on a two-story house the chimney was taller than the tree. You would think the metal chimney would have been hit in the first place, Go figure. The point is, how can lightning considerations not be part of this grounding equation?
Thanks for a great common sense, and electrical sense, explanation. I wasn't clear on one point. I get how you bond all your equipment to a command point, a wide strap to the copper pipe, but then you say, "Make sure that that is tied to the electrical system." How can one do this without running a wire to the panel. That's really not possible with my second story shack. Do I I get this for free since my outlets are three pronged outlets? 73 N1PCZ -- (Ahh, rewatching it, you discuss this around 4:40, yes, a modern electrical outlet will be grounded and one is good just by plugging in.)
I used to operate HF from second floor of apartment. I had indoor antenna, and artificial ground from MFJ. I had many good QSO in CW from Northern Utah to California. in every bands. without artificial ground, it did not work much at all. AG6JU
My house ground consists of a 2 metre (6ft), which is standard here in Portugal. I am grounded to that from all my gear, plus copper water pipes that run through the shack being grounded to the same house ground. BTW the house ground is a metre from my shack (my shack is semi-basement). 73 de CT7AOX ex G8CYE.
Hi Steve, I would change the AC cord to one with a ground prong. I typical salvage the AC cord when a device is headed for the recycle bin. 73, Jim W6LG
just a little FYI neutrals and Grounds are only connected together at the first means of disconnect. If the power to the radio room is from a sub panel then and only then they will be separated. This sub panel would be earth bonded ground rods outside.
Not always, if fact, less often then you are saying. Of this I am pretty certain. If that sub is in the same structure, then no ground rods. Four conductors are run back to the main from the sub. 73, Jim
NEC: One and only one connection is made at the first/main disconnect to the ground round. Within that panel, all neutrals and grounds are connected. At ALL secondary panels, ground and neutrals are NOT connected together -- a separate ground and neutral line is run back to the main panel. To do otherwise runs the significant risk of lethal voltages circulating where they should not.
IF the subpanel is in a separate structure, a ground rod must be installed and tied to the ground bar in the subpanel along with the ground wire coming from the main panel. There must be a separate ground wire, neutral wire and power wires coming from the main panel. But do NOT tie the neutral bar and ground bar in the subpanel together. NO NO NO. The house AC wiring is for power and safety. But the main subject of Jim's talk is providing a "signal reference potential" for RF and the equipment (i.e. the copper pipe to which all the radio equipment is tied). And to kill the myth that there is RF running in the AC house wiring or the need for an RF grounding rod for mysterious RF currents running out and disappearing into the ground.
Jim you are correct about the grounding in the NEC. The electrical code used to qualify cold water piping as a ground but not any more and for the very reasons you mentioned. However, the NEC now requires that all metallic water and gas piping be bonded to the electrical grounding system for the protection of persons and to facilitate the tripping of circuit interrupter devices. Fuses, breakers etc... This also holds true for your radio station equipment. The ground at the receptacle powering your radio station is sufficient for this as long as it is functional. I've been an electrician now 34 years. In that time, I have found many situations where the grounding is either broken, improperly installed or implemented and in the case of older homes. The grounding system can be in complete shambles due to too many modifications over the years by people who don't understand the importance of grounding. Also some really old homes. The grounding can be completely non-existent... Therefor... You should have the grounding in your home tested to make sure you have a solid grounding system. For the safety of you and family if nothing else. If you want a lightning arrestor ground rod system. That too should be (properly) connected to your electrical grounding system with #6 copper wire or larger.
I think there's merit to having one dedicated outlet with it's own breaker for a radio room. Something along the lines of an isolated ground outlet. Although I do think a dedicated metal conduit and box would also work provided it's going directly back to the breaker panel and not making contact with irrelevant metallic stuff along the run.
@@jeffkardosjr.3825 All fine as long as you make sure the grounding system is in tact and properly implemented with solid connections... Relying on a metal pipe for grounding is problematic at best. A copper wire with solid connections from grounding system all the way to the loads is far superior. A poorly installed grounding system with loose connections can cause reduced performance and radio noise. Also, a ground fault can cause damage to your equipment/Loads and take longer to trip the breaker due to the increased resistance caused by loose/poor connections.
Hi Jim, Paul NC6PT here. You stated amply there is no such thing as RF ground. That message is received. However, I'm wondering about your recommended grounding system for your (and others') station. Basically, it's a "star" configuration, with a copper pipe at the center. Okay, but then, that pipe connects to... ? The AC safety "green wire" ground at any chosen wall outlet? This tells me that the various components in your station would be at the same ground potential as each other, but not necessarily the same potential as at the service panel. I don't see the value of the copper pipe, given that all of the [braided] straps could be connected at a common point. Maybe if the pipe ran behind several pieces of equipment, that avoids long runs of braid? An illustration would have helped.
So what do you recommend? I did not recommend nor do I have a "star configuration". I have not heard that term before. I used the pipe as I said because it runs the length of the desk and it is tied to the metal frame as I described. Each ground strap is very wide. That system for both desks is tied to 6 inch wide copper flashing that is connected to a 1 inch copper pipe that runs to the electrical panel. 73, Jim
@@ham-radio Hi, I reviewed the video to see if I had missed something. Well, yes, I did, but in my own defense it went by very quickly at about 12:15 where you mention "yet more pipe", but it's not clear that that pipe is 1" diameter copper, all the way from your radio room to the service panel. Do you run that long pipe outside the house? Under the floor? What do you use to connect the long copper pipe to the ground of the service panel? I don't find where you mention 6-inch wide copper flashing in the video. So, anyway, your video got me thinking (that's good!) but I got bogged down in the details. My recommendation for this video (if you remake it) is to include some visual aids -- photos of your grounding components in place (braid, pipes, straps, nuts and bolts, etc), how and where things connect, maybe a graphic showing the overall plan. My recommendation for grounding? Hey, I like yours! 73 DE NC6PT
Our home was built in 2003. So you're saying a ground rod isn't necessary outside due to the house panel being already grounded and it may be a violation of NEC. I have TVI from ungrounded transceivers. So grounding only the transceivers, the Info Tech CW Keyboard and the external MFJ antenna tuner should solve the TVI, is that correct? When did the use of of a separate ground rod for ham gear become illegal or dangerous?
Let's call the grounding of each piece of gear, together, a "local" RF ground, which is what it is. It's purpose is to prevent "ground loops," which can cause parasitics, "RF in the shack," etc. It must possess a low RF resistance. Broadcast stations use copper flashing (typically 4") for this. Why not Hams? That flashing costs $$$$$, but a much cheaper solution is available, for the low power levels that amateur stations employ. Ebay sells copper foil tape at very reasonable prices. My guess is that 2" width would be adequate (it's what I use). You can also use 2" aluminum tape, from any hardware store, though getting a good connection is a little harder than with copper. Here's another suggestion, for making very good, but cheap, antennas. I use PVC pipe (usually 1/2 "), covered with that copper tape, for the elements. The antennas are cheap, strong, and light weight (at least, for VHF/UHF), and have broader bandwidth than ones made from skinny rods & tubes.
Jim, I hope you get back to this. Yours was not the most detailed, but you pack it into a shorter video. I believe bonding equipment needs to be connected to electrical ground. 1. Is this the 3rd pin on the wall outlet? 2. Do the coax shields from outside tie to this ground? Thanks for the help. P.S. The other sources say to connect to the mains ground at the panel, but add a ground rod outside the shack if the mains are far away. AND pound in rods every several feet or so until you get to the mains, AND tie the rods together with #6 or larger wire. For lightning protection.
Hi Lee, I agree on the PS and that does match the NEC. Yes I do bond with a very low resistance conductor. I am using 1 inch wide braid. My goal is to get all of the boxes at the same voltage. That could be zero ohms or a fraction of an ohm. And yes, that pin is ground at the outlet. And yes, I have my large homebrew coax switch mounted on a copper pipe under the desk. That pipe is my common point ground and from there it is tied to the electrical ground. I hope I answered your questions. As I said in another comment, today was the first day of chemotherapy for Acute Leukemia. And I may not be 100%. 73, Jim W6LG
Great video, Jim. Unfortunately it is a myth to think that connecting a station ground to a ground rod outside the shack is a good idea. If lightning didn't exist, MAYBE. But lightning does exist. And if a strike is close enough, the voltage from the strike travels into the ground up the ground rod and into your shack, likely frying everything connected to it. Ground is not equivalent to as place where lightning goes to die. The ground can and does get charged when struck by lightning, and connecting your radio and ham gear to it increases the danger dramatically. Lesson? Disconnect any buss bars that may be connected together inside the shack from the exterior "ground rod." Think of it this way: certain appliances come with a third wire (the green, for ground) so that it is properly grounded. In the olden days of ham radio, they weren't. What may have been necessary then (to eliminate charging the chassis of that old radio) is unnecessary today. Your ham rig IS grounded if it has a 3-prong plug. What is true for the garden variety appliance is equally true for the rig. Unless you know of an appliance that requires a ground rod being banged into the ground out the nearest window. I sure don't. If one thinks of the logic and physics of it, it really is simple. Now...RF grounding is another myth. BUT, none of these problems were ever solved (or could be) by running a ground wire from anything to an outside ground rod. First of, running a wire creates an antenna, therefore making any problem worse. Far better to put one's energy into ferrite chokes to resolve RFI than messing with "grounding." This old wive's tale needs to be put to bed. The mixup lies in the wording in the NEC code (that "equipment" must be grounded). That doesn't translate into running ground rods to everything that one plugs into an outlet. Why do ham rigs have a "grounding" post? It is for BONDING. It is in the vast majority of cases unnecessary and actually causes more harm (from lightning, RFI and "ground loops") than any benefit that could derive from it. I live in FL. Lightning is not DIRECTABLE or CONTROLLABLE. Thanks again for your wisdom on this topic. We should always test the myths out there against reality. 73 de W1AL
Having watched this. Read every question, answer, and comment. Read, Ward's ARRL Grounding and Bonding book. Not to mention many other videos and Motorola's guides etc. Read the NEC rule on additional grounding electrodes, which states must be bonded to house mains grounding electrodes, outside the perimeter of the house with 6 AWG or better. (Being now convinced there is no such thing as an RF Ground). Can I conclude, grounding the coax with a lighting arrester @ the ground rod under the antenna is a bad idea? Would not the lightning arrester create a second ground path to the main panel with a shorter run and smaller gauge ground wire at that? Or abandon the additional G/Rod altogether? Just Create a low impedance single point ground in the shack, connected to the nearest receptacle ground that runs thru house wiring back to the main panel. Let it be understood that the antenna, [end-feed vertical], and shack are on the opposite side of the house from the main panel and the house wiring is 14 AWG or 12 AWG at best with wire nuts probably along the line. I Feel like I am in The Twilight Zone. But I know I am in a Severe Lighting Zone.
There are two things here that must be balanced. The shear high voltage and high current of a lightning strike means that it will get everywhere. Period. The primary work of lightning treatments is trying to steer the majority of the energy away from sensitive stuff. The NEC, NFPA, etc. all spec many rods and heavy gauge wires for the steering effort. The primary objective is to keep the lightning energy out of the house by providing a preferred, low resistance patch to earth that does not include the house. Simply put, if you have a wire on the tower going into the house, no matter what you do, some lightning strike energy is going to get on that wire. Your job is to provide a preferred path to the earth outside the house to minimize that energy. Lots of rods, arresters, etc. outside the house. The second consideration is AC power faults -- thus the NEC requirements about wiring house grounds. In this case, one is steering AC power fault energy to the house ground wire and back to the main disconnect panel where the current can then return via the power wires feeding the house back out to the pole. Thus there is a reserved, low resistance ground wire available for this emergency return. This ground wire also serves the function of providing an equipotential for all the surfaces/chassis of equipment in the house. If everything is at the same equipotential then currents don’t flow and you won’t get a 60Hz killing shock. The local dirt potential via the ground rod at the main disconnect sets this common house base chassis voltage. There is no 60Hz current flowing from the dirt into the house; it is just simply setting a local safe equipotential voltage. Afterall, dirt is pretty resistive and there is no current flowing in the dirt and returning to the transformer on the power pole. You’ve probably already seen in the various standards that you must connect any ground rod system back to the rod at the house mains disconnect. This is usually done by connecting everything to a terminal bloc near the main disconnect’s rod and then one wire from that terminal block into the main disconnect box. So, if you have antenna ground system on one side of the house and the power’s ground rod is on the other side of the house, you must connect a heavy wire between the two. Otherwise your antenna shield becomes the connection between the two ground systems. Dirt is a poor conductor and so there will be voltage differences at various parts of your yard simply due to ionic differences. Without the interconnecting heavy wire, there will be current on the antenna wire due to these voltage differences in the yard. And, a much worse situation, if there is a lightning strike with the resulting ground currents, your equipment will be toast as the antenna wire connects the two ground rods!
@@713allen Thank you, Allen saw that I had liked your comment, but did not respond in writing while rewatching this video, 8 months later. I believe that my understanding of grounding and bonding has become firm at this point, and your comment confirms my understanding. Thanks again for taking the time to write such a thorough and thoughtful outline of my question. 73/88
I find that most rf flying around the shack is due to an antenna being close to the shack. Example: the feedpoint leg of my delta loop was about 8 feet from the shack door and also 8 feet from the satellite yagis. So after some testing with a rf detector , I found most of the rf entering the shack from the coax of my sat yagis. What’s even more interesting is the rf peaks were showing on the copper ground braid running 5 feet out of the window. Now I don’t know if it’s supposed to do that or what? Also what if the shack ground is more grounded than the ac ground? I guess that doesn’t matter since they’re bonded. I also use 1/2 copper pipe at the desk. I find that rotor cable carry’s more rf than lmr400. Lack of shielding I assume. Hot topic. Hehe Tnx om. Always enjoy your thoughts.
Jay, I always enjoy your comments and your ability to learn by trying. That is, you take question that you have and find the answer by experimenting. That is a great way to learn. And, I thank you for sharing. Many do exactly as you and I do. We all may not agree on the answer. But at least we tried to figure it out and share what we have learned. Seems like I am writing the same thing over and over in this response. Jay, as I sit here I am thinking about a video that goes to my medical history so that others may benefit. It is the weirdest story. My exposure to a nuclear reactor meltdown and subsequent diseases and how many doctors would not listen to me. It has been a six year journey through UC Davis and Kaiser. Today, I have a chance at a major cancer hospital in another state because of help from a couple of doctors who are ham and know me through RU-vid. I am also puzzling over the tip jar idea and don't know how to set that up if I decide. 73, Jim
@@ham-radio you should add the coffee fund or tip jar. Maybe it would help with medical copays. I’ve been waiting to hear about your medical story. Mainly bc I’m a caretaker at heart. You have me curious now! You should try the out of state care Jim. You’re very sharp and young enough for hope.
@@JayN4GO I don't know how to do that. So I will have to learn. Sadly, Mayo Clinic turned me down because they will not bill Medicare Advantage. So, I was stopped at registration and told no thank you. I have this rare set of diseases that I was not even able to discuss with anyone. I thought that they would be interested. So I am pretty upset this evening. Thanks Jay, 73, Jim
@@ham-radio damn man! That’s a huge problem with advantage programs. They’re good locally but useless out of state. I think regular Medicare may be accepted. It’s a money racket Jim. People everyday die waiting on insurance acceptance or lack of a certain insurance. It’s become the used car salesmen mentality for them to sucker people in with “benefits”. So sad to me.
All the various standards (NEC, NFPA, Motorola, etc.) are written by smart folks with many years of experience and lots of letters after their names. If you don’t follow them you are not taking advantage of all this knowledge. For the US, the NEC is very specific about how to ground exterior stuff like antennas, antenna towers, cable TV, telephone, etc. The grounds from all these go to a single bus that has a #6 wire going to the ground rod. This primary bus be in the power panel or a primary bus bar exterior to the house with a single #6 wire going to the power panel’s ground/neutral bus and #6 going to the ground rod. Having only one low resistance connection grounding everything in the house is how you keep lightning outside the house. There is no path or circuit for lightning current to flow - any point in the house wiring is a meg-ohms dead-end to the dirt ground except for the circuit back to the power panel ground bus. The standards are very clear and insistent that all radio, TV, cable, telephone, towers, etc. are grounded individually and directly (no daisy chain) to the point where the #6 wire from the ground rod terminates to this primary ground bus bar. This primary bus bar is your single point of reference for ground voltage and is capable of large current flows at low resistance. In the situation where your ham radio is at one end of the house and the power panel is at the other, you need to still do this. Look at it this way. The exterior primary ground bus bar can be as simple (inconvenient) as the bus in the power panel where all the various external ground wires, including the ground rod, terminate. Alternatively, a copper bus bar exterior to your house near the main power entrance with a #6 wire going to the power panel ground/neutral bus and a #6 wire going to the nearby ground rod can be your primary ground bus. All the exterior stuff then grounds onto this convenient primary bus bar. You may also daisy-chain additional ground rods to the ground rod and/or bus bar. The NEC requires connection of your antenna wires at the other end of the house to the primary ground bus. But there is no restraint on the physical size, length or configuration of the primary ground bus except that it is capable of carrying large currents at low resistance. A hard bar or large wire can be the primary ground bus. So, extend the dimension of primary ground bus by making it a very heavy wire ending in a flat copper bus at each end. At one end is the flat bus near the power panel and the other end is a flat bus near your shack. Connect your antenna connections/lightning arrestor at the far flat bus. You can even drop another ground rod. Just think of all this as a very long primary bus bar. But no matter what, don’t simply have two ground buses at each end of the house that are not strongly connected - to do otherwise provides a dangerous lightning current conduit through your house. The standards show antenna wires reaching into the house. This limits the amount of stray lightning current entering the house because the resistance and current carrying capacity of the primary bus bar is so much more than any wiring web in the house. The house may see some lightning voltage but there is no differential in the house for current (i.e. power) flow (assuming you did a good job of high current/low resistance interconnection of the buses at the two entrance points). If for some silly reason you decide to string another #6 wire up to your equipment room, you are simply providing a big conduit tempting lightning current to venture closer to your radios. There is no such thing or need for an RF ground in your shack. Don’t do it.
There are numerous standards/handbooks provided by NEC, ITU, ANSI, ISO, NFPA, MIL, Motorola, IEEE, FAA, etc. addressing bonding and grounding. ALL address lightning and power safety. In essentially all, their focus and advice is exclusively for lightning and power safety. To apply their contents to RF signals is overreach. NONE of these documents discuss or use the term “RF Ground.” Motorola’s R56 STANDARDS AND GUIDELINES FOR COMMUNICATION SITES is an excellent summary and reference for bonding and grounding for lightning and power safety. However, MIL-HDBK-419A does address the ground system for “personal safety”, “equipment and facility protection”, and “electrical noise reduction.” This last topic covers “Electrical noise reduction is accomplished on communication circuits by ensuring that (1) minimum voltage potentials exist between communications-electronics equipments, (2) the impedance between signal ground points throughout the facility to earth is minimal, and (3) that interference from noise sources is minimized.” For those interested in “RF Ground”, this is the topic for you and this doc is a good starting point! And what Jim says is right on target!
Hmmm. I agree your station doesn't need an "RF" ground (it does need an electrical safety ground), but it seems to me certain types of antennas do need an RF ground, for example a beverage definitely needs to be terminated through a resistor to ground at the far end, and also needs to be fed at the near end via a transformer between the wire and ground. These grounds are essential to the operation of the antenna. Are these not RF grounds? They're certainly not electrical safety grounds.
Good point! Excellent example and question Mike. My answer is yes. That terminates, dies, into the ground and it is RF. I will stay with there is no "station" RF ground. The Beverage Antenna probably kind of mystery for most of us. Mike I got a major dose of chemotherapy today so I may not be thinking as clearly as I would like. Thanks Mike and 73, Jim W6LG
That perforated ”plumber's" ground strap is a poor choice for connecting to a copper ground rod or copper pipe. A good grade ground clamp that can be tightened with bolts is a better choice. You fail to mention one of the most important, but mostly ignored problems, with grounding/bonding is the physical contact between dissimilar metals that is the prime source of corrosion. Mating surfaces should be coated with a copper bearing "paste" like Jet-Lube SS-30. The outside portion of my station grounding system consists of a 12" x 4" x 3/16" copper ground bar, two 8" ground rods, #6 insulated, stranded copper wire attached to the rods and ground bar with copper clamps NOT plumber's strap. #6 wire is then run to the inside ground bus through the foundation. Mounted on the ground bar are Alpha-Delta "lightning arrestors", with a thin coat of SS-30 on the back surfaces (dissimilar metals!). The term "Lighting Arrestor" is a misnomer. They are voltage suppressors. Their job is to protect your station equipment from induced voltages caused by near field lighting strikes and to bleed off any static charges. If you were to take a direct lightning strike, all bets are off. Don't expect the suppressors to stop it. You are almost certain to sustain, at the least, damage to your equipment. A ground rod should be 8 ft. long, driven deep enough so that 2" to 3" are above the (earth) ground. This allows for the attachment of the ground clamp and maintenance of the ground connection. Once a year, I unbolt each component and inspect it for corrosion and, if necessary, use a copper cleaning solution. In order to drive an 8' ground rod in, the easiest way is with an impact hammer-drill that is rated to perform the task. Unless you already have one, rather than the expense of purchasing one, a store like Home Depot or Lowe's will rent you one. I have found, as a retired RF Engineer and 42 years an Amateur Radio Operator, that the ARRL's ”Station Grounding & Bonding Handbook" to be sound and adequate to properly ground an Amateur Radio Station. While I disagree with most of your criticisms of the ARRL, there is a gain of truth in some of your points. However, I respect your right to express your opinions. 73 Al K3ZE
Thanks Al. A RU-vid video by its nature and response, is not all inclusive. I work from bullet points and those points are limited, repeated several times and shown by examples if I can. I appreciate your criticism and glad that you took the time to write the narrative and edit it. Thank you. 1. The video was not a discussion of lightning. Thank you for describing what you have done. 2. The video was not about how to install ground rods. Thanks for your description of what you did. 3. I did say that compliance with the NEC is for safety reasons and that in some instances, a driven rod(s) meets the code. In the ARRL examples that I have seen, the driven rod does not and could pose a safety hazard. I did discuss that with experts like Mike Holt. 4. I am not sure what criticism of the ARRL you are referring to. There is lots to be critical of with respect to top three editors that were recently hired. Maybe that? 5. My video discussion was about providing a low impedance path from the equipment to the pipe so that all devices were at the same potential above ground; as small as that may be. It was pretty much limited to that by bullet points. It was not about lightning or driving ground rods or the reaction of zinc against copper or many other things. Again, thanks for your thoughtful help to all. Many will read and follow your advice. 73, Jim W6LG licensed in 1964 and former Deputy BI.
My Elmer who built radio equipment for NASA and the Air Force and commercial outfits says braid is a high impedance conductor - and is not best for this purpose. Why do you ground the station if not for lightning protection? You do not explain why you do what you do. JT
That is not at all correct. And, it makes little sense. So what your super knowledgeable Elmer is teaching you is that a round small conductor has a lower impedance. That is not even debateable(spelling). The current flows on the surface. A wide conductor, typically, a flat condutor has a larger surface area and therefore has a lower impedance. That conductor could be copper. In some cases silver plated copper. Braid is often a better choice indoors because of its flexibility. Google "ground strap for radio" and you will find hundreds of sellers. Many are selling a type of braid. Gigaparts for example has some very wide braid. Lightning protecton does not exist. Those arrestors will not protect your antenna from being struck. With respect to lightning and dealing with it when it happens. I recommend following the National Electric Code. To protect from damage, I disconnect everything from my HF transceivers, amplifiers and rotators. I have several. I have been an amatuer for now almost 60 years. Thanks for writing and find another Elmer who gives good advice. 73, Jim W6LG .
@@ham-radio You are mistaken and I am NOT convinced by you weak reply. You misrepresent my Elmer because he does NOT recommend using a small round conductor. (You just made that up, putting words in his mouth!) Truth is, my Elmer mandates WIDE COPPER STRAP, or a very large 2-4 AWG wire for this purpose. Misrepresenting his position without knowing what he really says is irresponsible and low grade. Moreover, the fact many stores sell, and many hams buy, braided cable for grounding DOES NOT make it a good idea. In fact, those same stores also sell the very lightning protection devices you say are no good, making them an inconsistent source of advice. My Elmer is a qualified EE and RF engineer who designed RF equipment for NASA, Lear Jets, the Air Force, and other commercial entities. We do not know YOUR credentials - so we cannot make an informed decision about whom we should trust. I TRUST Ward Silver, N0AX, who lead a team of authors producing the ARRL GROUNDING AND BONDING book. You should READ Pages 1.10, 3.23, and 4.32 of the ARRL BOOK, as it clearly and expressly states FLAT SOLID STRAP, or HEAVY WIRE ARE THE STANDARD for making ground, bonding, and high-current connections at RF. It expressly states we should NEVER use BRAID UNLESS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY, and even then, we should NEVER use braid if it could become exposed to water and corrode. It expressly advises against copper braid from an old coax cable, "Don't do it at RF!" It explains braid can corrode and and work badly at RF, especially if the braid becomes loose or distorted. On each cited page, the ARRL BOOK expressly states SOLID STRAP OR HEAVY WIRE and NOT BRAID are the STANDARD, BETTER THAN BRAID which can corrode and which have poor contact, causing noise and mixing products. ARRL GROUNDING AND BONDING, by N0AX, pages 1.10, 3.23, and 4.32 and it is no accident the author set each comment apart from the main text in a separate text box for emphasis. The LIGHTNING PROTECTION INSTITUTE recommend strap over braided cable. What does the NEC require? I bet it says strap and not braided cable. My old ARMY and NAVY books on building radio stations recommend copper strap - not braid. YOU ARE MISTAKEN if you think braid does not present a higher impedance path than solid wire and strap. I checked with a Professor of Electrical Engineering at a local college and he agrees - strap not braid is the better, lower impedance path for grounding one's station. Owning a microphone, a camera and a RU-vid channel DOES NOT MAKE YOU AN EXPERT. Repeating common ham lore and popular misconceptions DOES every one a disservice. Your move. JT
@@ham-radio The fact many people sell, and many people buy, a given product does NOT recommend it as best practice. On your theory, the more buyers, the better the idea must be! Consider the number of fools who buy cigarettes. So, I suppose I should buy whatever is popular, just because so many others are doing it? Not a convincing argument - the old Fifty-Thousand-Frenchmen-cannot-be-wrong FALLACY. (with apologies to the French!, but I did not coin that phrase!) Ham radio is full of misconceptions, mistakes, and simply wrong advice. You know, like having a low SWR means the antenna is "resonant." ... right? NOT JT
Shoot... and by the way, NOT ALL CURRENT FLOWS ON THE SURFACE OF ALL CONDUCTORS. RF sometimes rides the surface of a coaxial cable, but not all current flows on the surface of the conductor. For just one example, DC does not flow on the surface of a conductor. Research powering remote devices over coaxial transmission cable with a bias-tee injector. While RF may flow on the outer surface, DC may use the entire conductor - which is why it matters if you have a solid all-copper center conductor versus a copper clad steel center conductor - as copper is a much better conductor of the DC current than stainless steel. RF cables are copper or copper clad to carry RF on the outer surface, but DC does not. Other examples exist, but one counter-factual is sufficient to negate a singular proposition. There is more to it than the number of threads in the braid. Sheesh. JT
It took sixteen and a half minutes to vaguely say that the grounding prong on the AC plug from the power supply is all that is needed these days for grounding your station in a modern shack or house.
Actually, that is not correct Bruce. I say that in the first 5 minutes. Additionally, I talk about RF grounds, conductor size, lightning (for another time), electrical panel's common point grounding, bonding and a bunch of other stuff in the first 5 minutes. It is a very complicated subject and to set up for the answer, I needed to cover several subjects first. Most of the time in a video, there has to be a preface or setup in order to explain the answer. A good discussion of grounding, bonding, and the rest should be several hours. Thanks for watching and commenting Bruce. 73, Jim W6LG
My comment may be a bit late, but you do come across a bit naive which regards to RF grounds. I do agree with a good fraction of what you say, but your remarks are biased by your choice of antenna. Yes, a dipole does not need an RF ground, but not everyone uses a dipole. Try connecting a dipole without the shield connection(i.e. monopole). It would not work well, but if you connected the shield to an RF ground it would work(though not as good as a normal dipole). An EFHW should not be choked at the feed point. Doing so would be the one pole dipole above (an incomplete antenna). Choking a short distance from the feed point allows the outside coax shield to become an RF radial. Yes, I have an EFHW-80-10 (49:1 unun) and by chance I mounted the unun on a fence near my pool pump. The pool power panel has a 7ft copper rod ground. I have the unun grounded at the rod not for performance (but it does perform very well) rather it allows me to easily by-pass the unun with a short pig tail to turn the antenna into a 160m 1/4 wave and it provides lightning protection as the antenna wire is coupled to the ground via the unun. That said, I have no "RF ground" in my shack. I have a sailboat, and if you had an HF radio on a sailboat you would think differently about RF grounds. Common marine setup is a long wire (metal backstay) antenna with a tuner mounted at the feed point. These require a true RF ground (RF because it does not need a direct rather a capacitive coupling). The RF ground to the sea uses the seawater as part of the antenna system making a ground plane (i.e. think image charges). This effectively turns the "monopole" tuned long wire into a dipole. The same is true RF grounding via radials. I agree the word "ground" is often poorly used. Maybe "bond" would be a better choice especially where RF bonding (either seawater, radials, or earth) is actually part of tribe antenna. On my sailboat, I have my Al mast bonded to my Pb keel for lightning grounding but I have my autotuner output RF ground bonded to a bronze thru-hull via a bunch of parallel capacitors (see me on qrz).
Hi, You said that I "do come across a bit naive which regards to RF grounds." Really?! I have been building antennas for about 60 years. And, don't lose site of my time manufacturing HF antennas. I do think that, for the most part, RF grounds do not exist. From what I read, much of what you describe is a dipole of some kind. A couple of quick responses as my time is very limited. I am getting things ready for months of Chemo Therapy for Leukemia that appears to have evolved from MDS. 1. Radials are not RF grounding. Radials, as you know, perform better, much better when elevated. Radials are a counterpoise. They are the other part of the antenna. 2. An End Fed Half Wavelength antenna absolutely must be choked right at the feedpoint. Your example changes the EFHW to an off center fed dipole. The impedance is very different from the EFHW. The shield becomes one leg of the dipole. The antenna you describe is not fed at the high impedance. You've changed it to a dipole. To be an EFHW, it must be choked so that the shield does not become part of the radiating antenna. 3. Dirt is not a good radiator. If it were, we could bury our antennas in the backyard. 4. You describe your boat's antenna as a dipole. I agree. There is no grounding because it is a dipole. Thanks for commenting and offering a different opinion. Next time, leave off the insult and add your callsign instead so we can know your identity. 73, Jim W6LG
Quote of the day: “You put up a dipole antenna. You have to have a ground. No you don’t.” Amen. I really do wish I could wave a magic wand and change our common terminology to something that has not been given seemingly mystical properties. For example, the bare ground wire in house circuits, i.e. ground wire, would be called the FAULT RETURN wire -- as in low resistance return for AC power fault return back to the main breaker panel. Yes, it is connected to a ground rod at the panel but the urban legend implying magic currents flowing from/into the ground rod to make things safe is deceptive and confusing. All current flowing from the power pole returns back to the power pole via the power lines coming into the house, not magically disbursed through the ground. The fault return wire house circuit returns current/power even without the ground rod. The shack RF ground (the copper pipe) would be better served by calling it the shack chassis EQUIPOTENTAL REFERENCE buss, i.e. EQP BUSS. Its primary purpose is to assure that the chassis of all shack equipment is at the same potential at RF and thus reduce voltage differentials among the equipment which produce RF currents and contribute greatly to RF-in-the-shack. This is accomplished via a low RF impedance interconnection system among the equipment chassis. It happens to be tied to the house’s fault return because the various chassis are tied to the fault return wire. Adding a connection to the fault return in the wall socket is visually satisfying but electrically redundant. RF ground implies so many properties and features that just wrong. No you don't!
Newcomers seem to be fixated on grounding. I've been in the hobby nearly 50 years and have never spent much time pounding ground rods into the ground to be honest. I swear I think somebody is making money somehow from having new hams driving ground rods every three feet.
One thing I have noticed through the years is that when I run a ground wire from my transceiver to a ground rod I have much less noise on the receiver. de WB7ORB
