How to Shoot a Bow Ishi Style 

Hunting with the bow and arrow mentions Ishi’s skill at the range, he found it difficult to perform an ‘American round’ because of all the colours on a target face

Ishi

that is cool, Cameron ! .... i love the Modoc bow

Excellent observation. It is for sure an instinctual style which modern, mechanical approach archery is 180 degrees from.

You are welcome. I have read the Ishi story books also and it is a tragic story for Ishi and his people. My reasoning here was to hopefully spark interest in Ishi's method and revive it so that it isn't lost, out of respect for Ishi and his legacy.

@@markswanson3337 Watching a second time. Invaluable. Thanks to you and Mark!

Oh yeah I did subscribe thanks.

I hope you enjoyed the video. This is by far the most accurate way of shooting Ishi style on the RU-vid platform! Good luck with the tattoo!

Lost 2 arrows today, but I’m getting the hang. I shoot instinctive already and it helps tremendously. 👍🏽

@PrimitiveLifeways ash works well wide and flat.. what is weight of that bow?

Zoran ... I think I know which statue of which you speak

@@markswanson3337 yeah! Paris of Aeginetes, right? Same short draw and position of bowhand should be inspected. There are representations on pottery with Ishi's bowhand position but not with Scythian bow (Paris has no preserved bow though).

@@zoranpavlovic9540 I'm having trouble finding it ... do you have a link you can share

@@markswanson3337 If you follow ATARN on FB it was shared by dr Ulrich Wellner and also discussed. I remember I've tried that draw using thumbring but it wasn't so comfortable with classic bowhand position, perhaps originally bowhand was in that position due torque. You can check some of Spyros Bakas' works published online. He's Greek archaeoligist and works in Poland. Here you can check first picture. I have plenty pictures from Greek pottery as well as particular statue took from different perspective (no thumbring used by Paris). koryvantesstudies.org/studies-in-english-language/page209-2/

@@zoranpavlovic9540 I do follow ATARN on FB. I've looked around trying to find a Dr. Ulrich Wellner, but he doesn't come up on the members list. i do remember a post showing a statue with an unusual shooting method that was very much like Ishi's method. I went outside and tried this new variation and it worked very much like Ishi's shooting. I made a few comments about it verifying it's validity as a method that worked. That is why I thought I had seen the statue you were referancing ... but I'm not finding any pictures of it now.

Ethan Peeler , juniper does not have to follow a ring. The little short juniper bow was made from a branch and I just decrowned down to the width I was looking for ... 2+"

Mark Swanson thank you

Charles .... if you notice in the pictures of the Native shooters there is a picture of a guy known as "Big Willis" with a small bow similar to the little juniper I shot ... he also appears to be too big for his bow. Length of bow is not necessarily relatable to size of the man .... I have also shot long bows in Ishi's method ... it works, but isn't very practicle. Pope states that Ishi drew from 18" to 26" depending on what type of game he was shooting at and his bows were 44" to 54" long and weighed #35 to #50. Ishi's 25 " draw has always worked well for me.

@@markswanson3337 Thanx for the response. I also downloaded a PDF of Pope's 'Yahi Archery'. Just scanned through it quick. It had a pic that said Ishi anchored his wrist against his chin. Just thinking this may have been more of the norm on longer shots. I'm talking like 15 yards here. And if going this route as a beginner of Ishi's style. It may help one get the feel for it better. Didn't have a bow and arrow in my hands. But kinda measured what my draw would be doing this. About 27". I used to draw a recurve at 29 3/4". I'm a hunter 1st, and all of this more primitive stuff more of a secondary interest. So being able to hit close to where I'm aiming is paramount to me. It would be really neat to kill a deer with something like these bows you've shown. But at 60 years old I don't think I could learn the tracking skills the native Americans had to back up any marginal shots.

@@charlesstasko6819 Yes, I have read that caption also about anchoring on the chin ... the pictures don't show it to advantage really, in my thought... and when you do that ... anchor on the chin you can whack yourself pretty good when you release the string ... take my word for it !! haha ! The draw is rather ungainly because it does not use the back muscles to advantage like a normal type draw across the chest .... 40 to 45 lbs. in the bow is just right really, and that is what Pope states was Ishi's favorite bow was. Because the bio-mechanics of the draw are not using the muscles to advantage, that is the reason I stated that the 57lb. Hackberry "War" bow was a beast to draw. I can draw normaly a bow in the 65lb. range, but using Ishi's method limits the abilities.

@@markswanson3337 Lest we forget,that Ishi had a method,that was recorded by Pope,as to what the proper dimensions were,for a Bow to an individual..In Ishi's case,it was 50"..According to Pope's measurements,Ishi was 5 Ft 8 " tall..The Bow that was taken from the Lower camp,Measured 50" long...I measured it myself..That bow disappeared many years ago,but i was able to examine it before it vanished..Using Ishi's method,,I draw 25 inches myself and am 5' 8" tall.....

@@TightwadTodd ... no worries, one adapts to what one has. Ishi made bows from 44" to 54". My preferance is for the 54 inch length because it is a more stable shooter, but that is the case for any bow format. As I demonstrated, bows from 36" to 54" long nock to nock can be shot this way and even though I did not demonstrate it, I have shot 72" ELBs and asymmetrical bows using Ishi's method. Also, the method works for an 18" to 31" draw as demonstrated. The length or type of bow is immaterial, the video is about the shooting methodology Ishi is employing.

Different perameter requiring a different bow and shooting style .... you are speaking apples and oranges

I've watched quite a lot of Kyudo videos studying, watching the bows and how they bend ..... the asymmetrical bow is a whole other subject ..... and yes the Yumi bow does turn in the hand and expend energy in doing so.

@@markswanson3337 i wonder how did they figure out sinew was excellent bow backing. I will never make another self bow with out a sinew backing . Even though it takes a while for it to cure .It is definitely worth the wait. Sinew will make the ugliest stick a lethal hunting weapon

@@dariuswhite2543 ... the sinew bow is nice, but ... in Arizona they can be a pain. Low humidity makes them rather unreliable and finicky, constantly changing tiller and draw weights. I will not brace or shoot my sinew bows unless humidity is at 30% or more .... humidity in the 10 to 15% range causes the glue to become brittle and you can literally shear the sinew right off the bow. In Arizona it is the selfbow that is the better bow, (in my opinion) being usable in all weather situations. For this reason I am a self bow guy and am more about refining any particular bow design to maximize the performance rather than looking to sinew.

yes, you can shoot longer arrows and they actually will stabilized better. Ishi's arrows were in the 29" range but were drawn to 25" I shoot the shorter arrows because they are more difficult to shoot correctly .... it's a practice-training thing .. do the more difficult thing, master that and then the normal thing is much easier.

Ishi made bows from 35 to 50 lbs. Ishi's favorite bow was 40 lbs. I give the weights of the bows through out the video. If the perameter of use is close in hunting ... Pope states 10 to 20 yrds ..... a heavier bow is unnecessary

Ishi's people were not horse people

a Native American ... look up his story

makes a great bow ! LOL :D

incorrect ... the longbow arrow pass lies above the center of the bow as well as the arrow nock point

@@markswanson3337 no. Its central..

@@charliebowen5071 ... if the arrow pass is centrally located, as you say ... then that puts the grip below the center line making the upper limb effectively longer than the lower .... that is asymmetry. This type of mild asymmetry is also used in some Hungarian and Bulgarian bow design.

Here is an excerpt from "Yahi Archery", chapter .... "Handling of the Bow" "As Ishi drew with the back of his hand uppermost, he extended his bow arm horizontally and kept it straight, midway between a lateral and forward position. His right hand he drew till its back came beneath his chin, the end of his radius touching the top of his sternum. Thus he looked straight along his arrow with both eyes open. In this position his eyes were considerably above the nock of the arrow and he therefore had to allow for over-shooting his mark." Yes, Ishi is sighting down the arrow ... but, notice .... "his eyes were considerably above the arrow" ... this is because his draw hand is below his chin and anchoring at the top of his sternum. In this position you are still going to have to employ some instinctual aiming with the plane of the arrow so far below the sight line.

@@markswanson3337 yea, definitely, the arrow tip is lower-- but that's how the gap aiming method works! i've been experimenting with this method with a flatbow I made, and I've found gap shooting is quite possible with it. as some people point out though, the more you gap shoot, the more it just becomes instinctive, and the lines blur. not saying Ishi ever consciously used gap shooting, just saying it's very possible with this method, moreso than with other types of thumb draw / arrow on the right side of the bow

@@squamiger7720 ... agreed that Ishi's method places the arrow in a position for a gap shooting application. But for myself I never applied a gap shooting method, it becomes more of an unconscious shot from the heart to the "heart" of the target. Kind of a Kyudo-ish projection of the "self" as target ... I have to admit , this is the way I seek to shoot with any archery method. To think back on my journey into "Ishi shooting" ... the more I thought about what I was doing .. tried to make adjustments ... the more I struggled with it. When I let go and went more "unconscience" of what I was doing the better I did with it ... and that is still true today. That is why I lean towards saying it is instinctual in application.

Crouching was Ishi's preferred method as hunting from a blind ... has nothing to do with a horse. These people were not horse people.

It was a style used by many western American tribes not just Ishi. Ishi was instrumental in popularizing bow hunting in the early twentieth century. He’s pretty well known by archers and people interested in archery and archery history.

Mark has been shooting Ishi style longer than Billy from Primitive Pathways has been alive. Billy looks like a clown when he is trying to shoot Ishi style. Thats the difference between a real bowyer and a TV reality star

Ahmm !? .... Big Daddy Ding Dong ... where in the video did I say Ishi was left handed ? And you don't know about or were privy to the conversations I had with Mr. Billy ... BEFORE ... he released his video ... explaining Ishi's method to him and answered his questions. Kinda hard for me to copy when I was the source of much of his information..... especially the flipping of the bow. The first time I ever heard Mr. Billy's name was 2002 when his very first articles for Primitive Archer magazine came out .... if you had listened to my words, you would have learned that I started with Ishi's method in 1980-81. Mr. Billy was most likely a little kid then. My purpose in doing this video was to expand the knowledge of Ishi's method and to try and correct the poor examples of shooting being demonstrated.

I am right handed and tried shooting left handed. I hit the neighbors wood fence. $80.00 later, I learned my lesson and said I cant take advise from a beginner ;)

Boo what? Mark has been doing this longer than you have been alive

Nakoa Warrior ... Quote #1 from Saxton Popes book " Yahi archery" Chapter "Handling the Bow" ... " The bow itself he clamped in the notch between the thumb and fingers of the left hand. he did not grip it tightly, even when full drawn. It poised in this notch, and even when the arrow was released it was only retained from springing from the hand by a light touch of his fingers. Some Indians, he said, had a little strap on the handle to prevent the bow jumping out of the hand." Ishi did not hold the bow in a rigid manor, Quote #2 ... "The arrow, when full drawn, rested on the bow, steadied in position by the slight touch of his thumb on one side, the middle finger tip at the other. When the arrow left the string, at the moment of release, the bow revolved, or turned over completely, in his hand, so that the back of the bow was toward him." The bow does flip over when you do it correctly. Pope watched Ishi shoot and described it perfectly

Translation: Sergei Lavrov .... 4 months ago (edited) Another amateur storyteller :) Ishi alone and his pictures, one cannot judge the shooting style of all Indians. Maybe he (Ishi) was crooked (sore joints) and therefore he was distorted ... And he didn't press his elbow to his chest that much. Let us consult the one who actually saw and recorded Ishi's method. Excerpt from "Yahi Archery" by Saxton Pope ...... chapter "Handling of the Bow" "He changed the position of his drawing hand for different ranges. For near shots, his right hand was often drawn as high as his mouth. His extreme length of draw was not over twenty-six inches, while for small game and near shots he shortened this to eighteen or twenty inches. He never drew any shaft to the head. In drawing, his right arm was held close to the body, while the shoulder was markedly elevated. This gave him a hunched appearance, but it permitted him to hold arrows under his arm, and in other ways must have favored his peculiar mode of shooting. It also threw his right arm and forearm into the same plane with his bow." Notice the phrase ... "his right arm was held close to the body" ..... "shoulder was markedly elevated" ... " hunched appearance" ..... "arrows under his arm". I never judged shooting styles "of all indians" .... only demonstraited what 'i've learned over the years of trying to figure out Ishi's style.

@@markswanson3337 , а по-русски можно? Или ты не ферштейн?

@@user-lv9it1nb4h Translation:.... can you speak Russian? Or are you not ferstein? No, I do not speak Russian ..... Goggle Translate I'm not sure what you are saying with the second statement.

I say in the video that this is a regional style of several western tribes, not of just one person, namely Ishi. If the result of the method is ... "very small movments" ... that do not spoke game .... it is hardly inefficient if the people employing it survived for centuries by it

Interesting .... when something is used within its own perameter of invention ... nothing is inefficient.

I think it’s actually pretty cool. Holding the bow horizontally makes it harder to spot and pulling the string without lifting the shoulder is a very good way to conceal your movements from an animal or an enemy, add in the fact that the bows were very small/compact and that makes it pretty much the perfect stealth style.