My favourite way to work is a 1 and 1. But the best I’ve done was with 3 apprentices and a hod carrier. We would all bump the lift out together. the hoddy would dish muck out. Forky would do the tubs for 50 a week. All clean up together. Everything seems to run better when working together. But usually a forky can’t keep up with to many gangs that work like that. Because we load out together we need pack after pack and it’s not often you can make that work. Unless you slip the forks a few quid 👍🏻 plus it keeps sites agents happy to get round the plots in a reasonable fashion
Your spot on I’ve had a bigger gang it’s stressful mate, I’m now a 3&1 it works well because like you say you can’t lay all day and keep Your eye on all the other brickies, before you know it you e got problems from what they have done then you lose money fixing the problems
I run with a 4-2, which works well for us, and suits contractors we subby to as we can be versatile and go to a pair of 2-1s or stay 4-2 depending on the type and size of job. We also do footings and superstructure on all builds we do, as it seems to suit the contractors we work for. We also do private work which is always a hit or a miss as you will be well aware. As long as you keep the guy on the forklift and the scaffolders sweet things generally go smoothly and we make a bit of money. Much like every gang we take the rough with the smooth
A well balanced sensible response, not my usual comment 😂 sounds like you know what you are doing 👍🏻 nice size gang a 4-2, sites just need to appreciate how much the wage bill is a day and how much work you need in front of you 👍🏻
@@Tone_Team 😂😂, I always try and understand the contractor’s point of view on things and I certainly would not like the stress that comes with the job you do. Dealing with hired labour is only a small part of the big picture for them so we try and not make it stressful. One of the agents we do a lot of work for is really good to us and gets us extra for everything he can, insulation, trays, taping up etc, and decent day work for feature work so we appreciate that. When the call comes in from him he knows we will be there because he looks after us. It comes and goes with supply and demand so we take what we can get when it’s there, but the size we run at now is working. Never know what the future holds but we will cross that bridge when we come to it. Really enjoy your videos as they are all very relatable and give a bit of insight on a part of the industry that’s typically not well understood. All the best 👍
Started as my business partners apprentice 21 years ago and been partners awhile now, got 1 improver and a hoddy. We do private work so its hard to always get the improver laying with all the moving of materials. Sometimes need a 5th person but not always, hard to juggle on privates with varying size of jobs.
improver being held back.... because you cannot provide suitable training... in other words you are taking on more than you can handle... at the expense of someone trying to acquire skills... that's where most apprentices end up..... same situation, held back so they end up labouring.... getting no trowel time, but being led on to believe that this is part of their training,.... its a joke. best part is.... less than minimum wage being paid to apprentices to do hoddy jobs...
Tough gig for apprentices on private work. Unless they want to be general builders and do a bit of everything they would be better off on site. I am sure there are plenty of improvers that want to get into extensions etc so might be worth finding someone who has completed college and looking to add other skills.
Start in the footings with someone you trust who has an equal attitude towards accuracy (has their own laser) and load out yourselves. Progress to a 2-1 and make plenty of mistakes on the supers. Drop back on day work to lick your wounds. Go back on price in the footings and make some coin. We've all done it.
In my experience lads who have come from the footings do not take well to superstructures. These days there isn’t much room for mistakes on supers, NHBC, CQR, Pride in the Job marking and Part L have really pushed quality, rightly so. If we ever have lads that have been doing footings then we are super cautious
2&1 works best, labourer gets to tidy up as you go along ! Even if you only lay a thousand it’s £250 each and £120 for a labourer… experienced trowels I’m 50 mate 37 ! Third man doesn’t want to work on his own, labourer running around losing track and 3 men on a line ( snag, doesn’t go up plumb, one waiting whilst last infills every course) Ludicrous having three unless improver inside
2 and 1 is ok until someone is on holiday, then it’s a bit of a ball ache but I don’t entirely disagree with you. As a 2 & 1 you should be making good money all day everyday, very little margin to lose money as a 2 & 1
4/5 and 2 can work but need a good few slabs in front of you like you said. As we normally tackle the bigger sites we can hold bigger gangs and we often make them the focal point of the site and then drop smaller gangs in as and when needed. It can come unstuck if your labourers aren’t consistent and then you have Brickies loading out or clearing up
Great to see you back active mate 👍🏻 one thing I always hated was having no labourer! Couldn’t do it without at least someone doing muck! Great that you have improvers, keep em coming through
whats the definition of an improver? for example... what can they do that is different to an apprentice? is it related to how long they have been there, how much they know, etc... or is it something else? from what you are saying, its related to speed? so an apprentice cant spread, cant lay... or an improver can do these things but just on a very small scale?
@@Tone_Team so would someone who is completed a college course be an improver or an apprentice... when i say college i mean full time only... no site....? not the day release, because day release is an apprenticeship basically...cheers👍
@@OutofPlumb-ic5pl if someone has done only the full time course and then come to site I would class them as an apprentice, no way on this planet they would be any good with no site experience. An improver is someone who has completed their apprenticeship, with one day a week at college. 👍🏻 in my opinion of course
As a 2& 1 gang (as an example); Im guessing would have to submit a method statement to the principle contractor? Have to be VAT registered Ltd company to be employing people? Thankyou for the video by the way, been after knowing this for a good while.
Hi, if you are working for a subcontractor on a labourer only basis, which you will be, then you can work under their Risk Assessment and Method Statement. No requirement to be VAT Registered, all new build sites are Zero VAT rated anyway 👍🏻
I’m 57 shortly on price work, building houses I have a mate we are two bricklayers, we start at seven and load out until eight as it’s a residential site and can’t start until then, have to keep the noise down, we finish around half three ,four. We don’t stop for any tea just keep going all day, I’ve been building over forty years now, I did my sssts, so hopefully I can use it soon somewhere need to start taking it easier soon lol .
@@AndrewMcleister solid plan that, thinking about it there are always delays on site so might be able to cope with no labour! Sometimes in the bigger sites the walk to the silo can be a long one which can waste a lot of time. Enjoy taking a step back mate. Good firms always looking for supervisor with knowledge
I always here if people earning good money in the footings. I think that’s a younger persons game, until the environment/conditions improves you wouldn’t catch me putting lads in footings. Needs massive steps to improve but cost implications are high
@@Tone_Team it’s easy money with no stress if you get rained off you don’t mind so much with footings. Doing houses you need to be getting a full week or you in on a Saturday making time up if you get rained off. Ideally you need a mix of both
This type of attitude towards college does frustrated me a little to be honest. I don’t think the full time course is much use but it is helpful because if a young person wants to do an apprenticeship but can’t find an employer then the full time course is their only option. Quite often people will start with the full time until they have an employer. To undertake an apprenticeship, i.e 4 days on site one day at college you must be employed. I always believe that the employer must and should have the biggest impact on the apprenticeship. We have apprentices for 80% of time and the college 20%, so who should have the greatest impact? Surely the employer. The quality of our apprentices is very good, they are always entering or winning competitions and are always first in the college to undertake their endpoint assessments ahead of others. College is about ticking a box to a certain degree but it also offers structure and a timeframe to apprentices and employers. So if a Brickie has done the traditional 80% site and 20% college route and they aren’t very good………look at the employer 👍🏻
Glad you guys stuck it out. All too often gangs split because of money or what site they are working on 👍🏻 be good if you stayed in the game after price work to pass on your experience 👍🏻 you are the type of guy we like to have as Supervisor
You mention say a 3 n 1 but what about the labourer, if he decides he's going 3 brickies stood, I've tried the £150 route they never stay I pay my labourer £200 for 10 hrs because he wants to be on a job where he can earn money I rarely keep him past 4 if we've had a good run, and at least 2 days a week he'll stay till 5 loading out for tomorrow's push What I'm trying to get across is no one can live on a £150 a day If your labourer jacks on Monday is one of your brickies going to step for a £150 exactly no he ain't
