How to Sound like LOATHE - Shoegaze + Metal 

Yeah they do have a definite Deftones influence. But they do so much more with regards to genre bending.

@@GaryHiebner exactly to your point that they did more than just have some influences from Deftones. I get the connection there, but it’s silly to just state they’re a Deftones knock off. Hell, this album even has a black metal section. In my opinion, this record implemented so much that I see it more as their own signature sound. They earned that respect on my end. They set the stage for a new realm of shoegaze-core or post-Metalcore… or whatever you wanna call it.

@@shaggy4847 i think that "black metal reference" is a reference from Deafheaven, that they do like some shoegaze/black metal stuff

You guys should check out hum

@@lol-od4ip that’s what I was thinking. Hum’s new album has this vibe

same here bro xD

In fact, I feel like listening to that now....

STOP

What did you guys think of the newest Deftones album? I can appreciate it, but I'm not really vibing to it.

@@A_Salted_Fishe it was alright, from what I remember....

yes boy!

^^ THIS ^^

hell yeah man, holy fawn is a local band for me in arizona, so seeing them get talked about is super cool

YES YES YES!!!

Holy fawn are the best ! holy fawn and loathe are in my top albums of this year for sure !

Deftones' riffs are mostly just power chords. Most of the shoegaze sound comes from the samplings.

You are right to an extent. That “is it you” track is the same progression from back to school off the white pony album

@@adrianmojica2619 lies

@@adrianmojica2619 there are tons of shoegaze elements in Deftones that are not samples. Delays and reverbs on the guitars , bass & synth are much more present than sampling

@@scottneilson2314 true but loathe add some extra spice in my opinion they’ve took deftones and made it there on sound

Yeah they great styles to mix together.

Eh. I guess, but shoegaze is more or less about atmosphere and timbre more so than volume. Volume is an effect people like Kevin Shields love

Yup. Deftones, Alcest, and now Loathe are a few examples of bands that mix them really well

They are both about atmosphere

Found you lol

Yeah, its pretty similar to Deftones stuff. I think I have seen them a couple of times mention Deftones as an influence. So that makes sense.

Is it really you literally is the Pink Maggit/Back To School progression, I feel like they did it on purpose as a tribute rather than rip it off though

Yeah the Bass VI and Jazzmaster Baritone have the exact same neck. The one Loathe guitarist also uses a Fender Pawnshop Bass VI. Suppose the pickups will sound quite different. But I have seen guys using a Bass VI and the swapping out the pickups for single coil sized humbuckers for a beefed sound.

Yea homie has bass strings on his guitar lol

There's also the agile intrepid 630. Same scale length, but it has emg's

Heard that thing can't stay in tune at all

Haha! Saffas FTW!

Awesome! Glad you enjoyed the video. Will definitely do more. Take a look also at my recent Northlane one I did. And send any suggestions as well

Awesome. Glad you enjoyed the video

Thanks a lot!

Numenorean are top tier. Their Adore album is amazing

Not the same, but check out Black Sun Eon or any of the other bands Tuomas the mastermind behind them has been in. It's classed as melodic death/doom, but it's got atmospheric and symphonic elements. Riffs are extremely unique, and it's often slow with unexpected chord changes and crazy melodies. Love it.

A fretless baritone would be insane!

Awesome. Glad you enjoyed the video

Thanks, such a great song

Yeah it was a bit of trial and error figuring out these riffs. Have fun figuring out some of the other songs :)

Thanks, glad you enjoyed the video

That is awesome. Glad you're enjoying the videos. And yeah the SubZero Bass VI is gonna be the way to go to get close to their sound. Maybe load it up with some Humbucker size P90's to get that single coil sound. To give you. hint, my next video is gonna be on 'Sounding Like Northlane'. So stay tuned for that one :)

@@GaryHiebner Nice! As I'm sure you gathered from my username, Northlane is also one of my favorite bands. Yeah, some humbucker sized P90s are exactly what I was thinking. Also, some fun facts about the tunings Loathe used on this album according to their drummer: Heavy Is The Head has the lowest string dropped to B0 on the Squier Baritone Jazzmaster. Screaming, Is It Really You? and A Sad Cartoon are actually played on a regular 25.5" scale guitar tuned as follows. Screaming tuning = ADADGB, Is It Really You? tuning = AbDbAbDbGbBb and A Sad Cartoon tuning = AbEbAbDbGbBb.

@@DJENTISNTNOTAGENRE Yeah that's why I mentioned about the new video. Man, thats pretty interesting with the B0 tuning and then standard scale guitars on the other songs. Where did you read/or find this out. Would love to read more about that.

@@DJENTISNTNOTAGENRE I also wonder how they gonna do those songs live. using their Jazzmasters or Standard scale. And are the standard scale guitars also Jazzmasters with the Duncan Designed Pickups?

@@GaryHiebner It was actually the drummer commenting about it on someone's cover of Is It Really You? here on RU-vid. I asked him how he knew this information before realizing his name is Sean Radcliffe lol. I tried out learning some of A Sad Cartoon in the tuning he suggested and it seemed to check out. I know there's a very small possibility it could be someone pretending to be him, but I think that's pretty unlikely given the nature of the information he gave and the fact that Loathe isn't exactly a really well known band just yet.

Thanks so much

The album is amazing. Still at the top of the list of my favorite albums. And New Faces is a great track. The contrast between the heavy and more chilled bits is great!

Thanks, glad you enjoyed it

@@GaryHiebner sure did bro. pretty cool .hey if you haven't yet. give us a listen. would love to know what you think of our band and music

Shrill

A sad cartoon was played on a six tuned to G#

Yeah I tried that same set as Erik but found the tension to be a bit high.

Yeah it is pretty Deftones, but its almost like they performing bass and guitar roles on the Baritone with their weird tunings. Like you've got Drop A, and then a lower strings lower then that add that extra lows to your chords and riffs. Its really fun to play with :)

It's a great tune. Had to do two riffs from that song!

Nice. Try figure out 'Heavy is the Head that Falls' That goes down to B0. You might be able to figure that out on your 10-string

Just reading this now is kinda funny, I messaged the drummer on Instagram cuz he wrote that song & it’s actually on a regular 25.5” six string tuned to drop G#. they just use an octave effect for the low parts apparently!

Thanks for the suggestion. Thats a very cool band.

You can use a 100 single bass string. Or look at some Bass VI sets like from Newtone that have 100s in them

@@GaryHiebner Thanks for the help man!

Great idea. Will definitely consider this.

apparently

Glad you liked the video. Yes every guitar track is a new take.

@@GaryHiebner thank you so much !! also, I know you did that nail the mix for this album , I don’t have the baritone yet, but did you know if the bass on this album is in the same tuning? Or is it just standard ?

I think the bass is in the same tuning. So its tuned in unison in the same octave as the guitars (EAEA)

You could possible go down to the Drop E tuning on a 28-inch. But you will need to use thicker strings. And depending on the bridge and how far you can push back the saddles you might have slight intonation issues. I know I have gone down to Drop E fone on my Stagemaster 7 with a 28 inch Baritone neck conversion. But a 30 inch handles it way better

Yeah I had to sand the nut. I just used the string and moved it back and forth between the slot to widen it. Til it fitted snug in the slot.

It intonate fine on my Baritones with 28-inch scale and 30-inch scale in Drop E. It's all preference. I like the tonality of guitars this low. Has it's limitations like you can't play chords once you get below G1, but its fun to play with :)

Yeah its sounds crazy till you consider the tuning and scale length. Those guitars are basically short scale basses.

@@GaryHiebner facts, suddenly I need a baritone in my life

Yeah also found out after making the video. I did the Nail the Mix session of theirs and watched George Lever’s video where he explains they mainly used Plini. Who would have thought. Interesting hey? I might have to do a follow up video :)

@@GaryHiebner yesssss loved this video but If you could make a second one showing us how to dial Loathe’s tones on the plini plugin and maybe even give us the presets to download. That would be much appreciated.

You can get down to the Drop E on a 28 inch, but I think any lower is pushing it and you gonna run into ontonation issues. I tried Drop E on my 28 inch 7 string and it worked fine with the riggt string gauges. So maybe like a 16-85 on a 28 inch Baritone for Drop E.

@@GaryHiebner thanks for the info man, being a lefty really limits your options. Sounds like I may have to put the baritone dreams to bed and go extended range. Cheers again man, subbed.

You could find a good luthier near you and get a barirone conversion neck made. Thats what I did. I got a good luthier near me to build a 28 inch baritone conversion neck for my 7 string.

Yeah it’s the Squier Jazzmaster Baritone with a 30-inch scale. It has now been discontinued. Pity.

Yes that's correct. The 6th and 5th strings stay the same. Where the other strings are all tuned up 2 semitones (up a step). The best way to think of the tuning is the 1st to 5th strings are tuned to Drop A. And then the 6th string is an extra low E.

@@GaryHiebner Thanks! My Strat’s in drop A so I totally get it

@@GaryHiebner, is it feels well with 24-84, or i need a different gauge to tune like this? i mean a tuned up 1st and 2nd strings.

Haha! What tuning did you use?

Thanks

Yeah you can look at the Squier Bass VI, the Gear4Music SubZero 30-inch Baritone, the Gretsch Baritones which are 29,75 in scale length. And Harley Benton has the GuitarBass which is a 30-inch Bass VI.

@@GaryHiebner Man, I wish I bought the Subzero one before Loathe popularized it and causing it to go up £100 in price, and now it's not available to ship until September. T_T

Got my Squire Bass VI today and could not be happier. Plays like a much more expensive guitar. 100% recommend.

Definitely. Some more baritone videos are definitely coming up.

You can slap some thick string on, like maybe 20-90 and you could possibly use the tuning. But your intonation might go off when you get closer to the 12th fret and higher

The string custom tapered both sides and just needed to file the nut a bit for it to fit through it. Other then that no other mods that needed to do.

Yeah great idea. I think they'd sing it with Whammy pedals. One is on my Wishlist and when I get one I'll definitely do a video on that

From lowest string to highest: EAEADF#. And then they tune the low down even further to C#1 and B0 on some songs. But the rest of the strings stay the same.

Glad you enjoyed the video. I’ve used a combination of different tunings. But for the most part the 5th to 1st string is a Drop A tuning and then on the 6th string I switch between a Low E to a Low DB and down to the low D. So as long as you have a thick gauge on the 6th string like a .100 gauge you can change that low tuning and still have good tension

Great guitars!

@@GaryHiebner I've never been happy with the dirty tones though. I play heavy stuff and mostly on an HH strat with humbucker sized P90s tuned to drop A. For some reason I like the sound and of the floppy strings. I want to find the sound with the baritone, but it keeps sounding boxy or nasaly. I think I've got the wrong strings and I need to give it a good setup though. I hate really heavy gauge G strings that aren't wound, they stick out too much and don't stay in tune.

Yeah that's true. after the video I found out that 'Heavy is the Head' goes down to B0. That is crazy cool though. I see they both use 105 gauges on the 6th string to get down to that B0.

Yeah found this out after doing the video. Saw it in the Nail The Mix session.

@@GaryHiebner still awesome video keep it up bro

Woah good to know

Kinda crazy you can spend like $450 ($300 guitar + $150 plugin) plus some studio monitors and a computer and you have their sound

@@dilbophagginz Baritone jazz masters are usually at least $1000+

I'm using Overloud's THU Amp Sim plugin. In there I'm using a Noise gate, into a tube screamer. And then it hits the Amp Head And Speaker Emulations. After that I have done some EQ-ing and compression. Hope that helps.

The 105 on the EB 9 strings set tapers at about 29 inches. So if you have a 30 inch baritone. It will be a problem.

@@GaryHiebner ah gotcha thanks for the tip Appreciate it

@@GaryHiebner another question can the D'ADDARIO 8 string pack work was well?

And tuning down to what with it? I know guys have used 120s on the Jazzmaster and tuned it down to B0

I used the following custom set 100,62,48,34,24,16. Which is basically the Ernie Mammoth set from the 62-16. And then have chucked on a 100 for the 6th string.

Yeah, it's the Squier Jazzmaster Baritone with a 30 inch scale. But it's pretty much a Bass VI

TurboTurkey 94 I’m pretty sure you could, the only reason the baritone is used is because of how low the tuning is

Yeah you could, the jazz master pickups may be slightly different. As they as Duncan Designed Jazzmaster Pickups.

Go on Turbo Turkey

Yeah sometimes I do that. And other times I also quad track track. For these tracks it felt good to just duplicate and send through some different effects.

yeah the second guitarist Connor uses a Squire Bass VI

Yep! Connor goes back and forth between a Jazzmaster Baritone and a Bass VI. Not sure if it's for specific songs or just what he feels like playing at the time, though.

Thanks. Yeah I think the Subzero Bass Vi is an awesome option. But yeah definitely budget in a few mods. Like a oickup change and maybe a good setup. Heard some mixed reviews on the QC on them. But nothing that a good setup csnt fix up. I'm definitely thinking of getting one of the new white SubZeros

@@GaryHiebner Thank you so much for the reply! Yeah those white ones look soso good. What kind of pickups do you think would go well with the Subzero?

Are you using noise gate? That helps. Or to replace the lups with no-hum jazzmaster pickups

@@GaryHiebner I have a noise gate but doesn’t help me a lot I’ll try to find those pickups!

Nice. Yeah I’ve also tried it out on my 7-string. If you got humbuckers. Try coil split them to get a more single coil sound to match the Loathe single coil tone

@@GaryHiebner That's a great idea but don't have humbuckers unfortunately

If you don’t have humbuckers and already have single coils then it will be pretty close to the Jazzmaster single coil tone. Have fun playing some Loathe on a 7-string.

@@GaryHiebner i got a better job so i may actually be able to get a baritone now lmao

@@GaryHiebner got a baritone and it slaps!

Near the end of the video I do go through the amp emulation and pedal emulsion software I use to get the sound. It's mainly the amp and cab giving the sound, then with a Tubescreamer in the front and some post EQ processing.

The model is a Squier Jazzmaster Baritone. But it has a 30 inch scale. It comes tuned in A Std from the factory. But if you put thicker strings on you can tune it down E Std like a Bass VI, or even lower.

Yes. Their one looks great. It has single coils. So if you want a hum bucker you will need single coiled sized humbuckers.

Yeah thats true. Connor used a SubZero, and Erik is now using the Gretsch Baritone.

It goes through a combination of tunings. But I used the E-A-E-A-D-F#. And then dropped the 6th strings to D# and C#. The tunings are mentioned in the video

Holy Fawn is amazing. Definitely thinking about a video on them.

hypeeeeee!!!

​@@GaryHiebneryesss please!!!!

That’s pretty cool. Heard some cool stuff with those guitars. Check out an artists called Caynug. He uses that same guitar with some Bare Knuckles in it and tunes down to low D. He’s got an awesome tone with it.

@@GaryHiebner checking now, thanks man

Deftones is obviously a good one. I'd also like to hear of some other shoegaze metal suggestions.

@@GaryHiebner deafheaven and Oathbreaker. Deafheaven includes a lot of super heavy riffs in their songs but also has a lot of pretty mellow shoegaze parts. Oathbreaker is an experiment black metal band which has a much more black metal sound but there are riffs that you can get lost in because due to how ambient their sound is. Listen to the song being able to feel nothing but the version from audiotree live. It’s absolute insanity.

Nothing. That’s the band name, check it out.

Yeah thats interesting. I remember hearing that. Definitely gonna try it out.

Yeah this guitar has a great single coil tone. Those Duncan Designed Jazzmaster pickups are pretty unique. I used a combination of different cab emulations for the guitar tones.

Heavy Tones yeah I have Duncan designed pick ups on my squier vintage modified strat guitar not bad at all

The pitch shift effect is bypassed. That’s just in my template and I turn it in when needed. There’s no pitch shifting going on with these Loathe riffs. Just the guitar tuned differently.

@@GaryHiebner Alright, thanks for the answer. I didn't hear any pitch shifting happening and it confused me for a second.

Haha! Sounded right to me at the time. Also no tabs around the check the exact chords :) Glad you enjoyed the video and like the channel.

Yeah I only found that out recently. I did the Nail The Mix session with them and I see George Lever mentioned that Erik doesn’t like tube screamers. Haha! Who doesn’t like tube screamers!