My starter is completely rye flour and I've been learning sourdough bread baking using spelt flour recipes. The loaves are improving but I'm not fully there yet. Ultimately I want to transition to einkorn flour sourdough bread only!!
What did people in the past centuries/millenias do with all the discards? Did they just constantly bake bread to keep their starter going? Like there's so much starter from the daily feedings. And perhaps they had colder cellars in the mediterranean/african/middle east regions, but perhaps not. I can see why people started favoring commerical yeast. Like apartment being 21,5°C and trying to find a place that would be between 24 and 27 is a tough task. No problem for commercial yeast, but starter being lethargic can be upsetting. Really appreciated that you include all the temperature translations on the spot. You can always google or calculate them, but it's just so much easier like this.
"Nothing just feeding my starter, nothing to see here" really funny :). I love the mistake approach of yours it is like Frank Zappa - firstly he studied how not to play the guitar, to later become a guitar master.
This video is for mature starters. Watch this one for new starters. The First 10 Days of Your New Sourdough Starter: Troubleshooting Tips ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-_OAhPvQ5Ngo.html
You certainly could use rye flour as part of regular feeding. A lot of people do. For purposes of all of my videos I try to follow the Tartine Bread recipe "by the book" so I have a consistent baseline across all of my experimental videos. In that book, they recommend only using Bread Flour and Whole Wheat flour so that is why I have chosen to use that combination. If I were not trying to follow the book exactly, I probably would be using some rye flour in my starter mix. Good question. Thanks for asking.
That was my question, too. Excellent answer. I am now going to use 45% white bread flour, 45% whole wheat flour and 10% rye flour. PS I would still appreciate a pdf of your country loaf process timeline. I bought the book and it is not in there. peterchur@comcast.net. Thanks
It needs more time or warmer temperature. Don’t discard and refeed a starter that hasn’t peaked. That actually makes it weaker. Always wait until it peaks. Even if it takes two days. The optimal temperature is 78-82F.
@@thesourdoughjourney Thank you - I got the optimal temperature + shot of healthier (wheatier) flour and it finally peaked after 16 hours! Ugh I'm so happy it (Frank) did not die. What a great resource this page is. Thank you thank you thank you.
I am SO grateful for this video. My start went from being sluggish to more than doubling in four hours based on your tips from this video. Thought I should circle back and thank you for that. Much appreciated.
So question for clarity I feed my starter 1:3:3 and I feel it's getting too level 5-6. So from my understanding that is right where I want it to be correct? So in my case to boost it I should add a little rye every now and again. I currently store them in the microwave to keep them warm. They do double or more in size I would say by 8th hour tops if warm. Slower if just on counter.
Hi again Tom, Due to you video on strengthening a weak starter and your recent suggestions, Larry, my 25 year old sourdough starter, is a new man. I've done peak feeding for the last 2 days and can't believe how active he is. With my rejuvenated starter and your brilliant Bulk-O-Matic I feel confident t that I will soon be turning out excellent bread. Joel
I'm new to sourdough and just found your informative and entertaining videos. Thanks for sharing your knowledge in such an accessible manner. What a treat. Breadmaking is a touch of a challenge for me as I'm mostly bedbound so getting up to monitor the starter or bread as bulk fermenting isn't always possible. I'm baking one loaf at a time for myself. Have been trying keeping the starter in the fridge as even the time standing up to feed the starter daily can be impossible. I know you prefer the daily feeding method, but hope you'll consider a video on keeping starter in the fridge and all involved with that - feed at what ratio; then how long later put it into the fridge; any temp requirements; when to take it out before baking and what to do....... I have always loved sourdough and am not finding much acceptable bread to order online from the stores near me so really want to make this work. Besides my specific needs, I know many people want to use the fridge method for various reasons so you could help many of us.
Once you have a strong starter, you can definitely keep it in the fridge. Most people do a 1:1:1 feeding per week if they are not baking and just maintaining in the fridge. If you plan to bake, take it out a day before and do 1 or 2 feedings before baking. Some people do not even do this and they just use the unfed starter straight from the fridge. You might also want to look into overnight sourdough recipes which require less handling. Here is a popular one. cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1018028-sourdough-no-knead-bread
I've gone through SO MANY videos and links and most of them covered the same square inch of advice and got me absolutely no where. This actually has information and clarity, thank you!!! I'll give some of these pointers a try and see if I can't get my starter into the 'robust' portion of the sourdough spectrum :D
WOW excellent video! I bake and sell sourdough and ran into a problem this week and could not figure out how to get the strength back to my starter! I baked amazing loafs until they didn't rise anymore and that threw me for such a loop, thank you for this video!
“I did not have time to make a short video so I made a long one” (that is a Mark Twain joke). I’m planning to make some “short takes” of these videos in the future.
Thank you Tom, my starter has never risen . It is ten days old very few bubbles after feeding.I hate to throw it out. No activity noted.only using bread flour and water.Thank you , please help.
My starter is over 14 days old. I've only ever used organic spelt flour (my preference). Buts its still weak. It occasionally just about manages to double in size but takes around 12 hours
Hi Tom, great video, my starter is about 7 weeks old, I don't think she's very strong, if I do the peak to peak feeding how many feedings should I do ( or days of feedings?) to make it stronger? I been feeding it half AP and Half WW flour is that OK to do the peak to peak with this combo or should I switch to bread flour and WW?? Thank You.
I’d suggest feeding it every time it peaks over a two day period and see what happens. If it peaks less than twice a day, keep going. Ideally you want it to peak in 4 hours, but after 2 or three days of peak-to-peak, I’d pause and let it go for a full day and re-assess. AP and WW is a fine mix. Good luck!
@@thesourdoughjourney What does "I’d pause and let it go for a full day and re-assess" mean? Do you mean to store in the fridge for a day? Thanks for the great video!
I don't feed my starter everyday. I bake bread on average twice a week. I keep it in the fridge for 2 to 3 days and then the day before I take it out of the fridge and using the 1 to 1 to , I feed it with 1/2 whole wheat and 1/2 all purpose. I also use filtered water but I make sure it is lukewarm. It almost triples. I then feed it again early morning on the day I make bread.
The first 20 minutes of this video also shows a strengthening routine I did over 5 days. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-DI0nyQpqzoY.html
My starter mostly 3to5 time rise in eaach feed my feed ratio is <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="62">1:2</a>:2 or some time <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="61">1:1</a>:1 when take out from her bedroom But each cycle, take 12-18h may be cause my environment that 27-37c swing all day. When normal feeding is put her on a water filled box at 1/3 height of starter container (ilthis help alittle) But i only seen hunhry state
Thank you so much. I completely understand about my starter😅. I remember throwing my 1st starter, because I didn't know, when it was on its 7th stage😢.
I have had my starter given to me little over two weeks ago Couldn’t talk to the person who made it. It wasn’t doing a lot except bubbling. So this past Sunday I gave her a combination of bread flour and dark rye. Holy Moly she went crazy. In just a few hours she doubled and more. Then I fed her regular bread flour for 3 days. She doesn’t do much except bubble again. Should I keep giving her a combination until she doubles every four hours for 3-4 days? Love watching your videos. Learning so much
Yes. Starters react to different flours. But I’d try to go of up to full strength, then you can wean it off of that flour, sometimes and feed it bread flour or all purpose. But do the transition slowly.
Hello Tom, Carlo from Italy here! First of all thanks! Really appreciate your hard work and all the detailed videos you produce, I improve a lot since am following your method (taking away the guessing from the equation is quite nice) even though the way still long 😢😅 I was wandering if could you throw some rope on the “water topic” during the refresh routine of a starter, how does it impact the 7 steps cycle in the 24h? and how it impact the bulk fermentation rise % target at a given dough temperature? My first mom was at 45% hydration, my feed ratio was <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="61">1:1</a>:0.45 and by following the %rise table won’t work with it, producing always underproofed loafs; less water requires to push further the bulk fermentation before going for the fridge? It would be amazing to know your point of view and/or if you want to redirect me on some other sources that could help me with this…even if I start a new starter (😅) I still want to get a decent result with the old starter, because I know it can do it 😅 when people says that could be developed attachment to your yeast! Thanks and ciao 😅
Hello Carlo. If you are using a “stiff starter” (less water), normally that does not have a significant impact on the results. It is possible it will rise slightly slower, but the percentage rise target should be the same. But the chart is just initial guidance. If yours is underproofing, push the bulk fermentation more e@ch time you bake and once you’ve found the correct % rise, it should always be the same.
I think I have overfed my starter!! Day 1-3 my starter was doing great with a <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="62">1:2</a>:2 ratio! I moved up to a <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="63">1:3</a>:3 day 4-10 with no rise! I didn’t know better to wait until my starter was hungry before re-feeding! Went back to a <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="61">1:1</a>:1 ratio to attempt to recover. I’m on day 13 and still no rise! Should I start over from the beginning??
It should recover, just give it more time between feedings. Watch parts 6 and 7 of this video for more on starter feeding. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-DX3-UANTMG4.htmlsi=WyRxLu0xqOw-uduz
Every starter is different, so it’s impossible for me to predict, but I usually do a 1:10:10 feeding about 10 hours before I plan to use the starter, at an overnight temperature of about 72F. I’d give yourself a little more time (maybe 12 hours) the first time, then adjust based on your experience. If it peaks too early, you can refrigerate it at peak. If it does not peak by 5am, you don’t have a lot of options. You can use it pre-peak, and it’s just like using a little less starter in your dough.
Excellent tutorial and suggestions.and I learned a lot👍🏼. I do have a question about discarded sourdough starter. CanI store the discarded portions over a few days in the refrigerator and use it to make pancake or waffle batter? Thanks again.
Yes, you can store your discard for a long time in the fridge. There are a lot discard recipes on the asking Arthur website. If you want to,reduce the amount of discard you are creating, check out some of the ideas here thesourdoughjourney.com/faq-starter-maintenance/
@@thesourdoughjourney Thanks so much for responding. I have been trying to get a dehydrated starter working and today I fed the starter with some bread flour and whole grain and set the jar on top of my refrigerator and I definitely am seeing more bubbles and activity.
If my current starter is being fed <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="63">1:3</a>:3 and I do the peak to peak feeding, should I do the same ratio or <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="61">1:1</a>:1? Thank you!
If you do it arbitrarily every 12 hours, it may not be at peak. And discarding and feeding before peak is what weakens it. People can overfeed by sticking to a time schedule. .
Tom.. I am new to the sourdough baking. I mixed my 1st starter, Day 2 no activity. Day 3 it had tripled. It peaked and started to fall. I fed it, 1,2,2. Day 4, no activity. I fed it, 1,2,2. Day 5, no activity. I fed it, 1,2,2. If there is no activity...... are we to still feed? It seems this is overfeeding. I know you said be patient and I am. Just confused whether to feed an inactive starter. PS I've watched so many videos out there with people using their starter after 8 hours etc. But I follow your "just don't do it" motto. Pathogens. :)
This is such a great video and has helped me understand exactly what was wrong with my sourdough - A weak starter! I have been doing peak to peak feeding for the last few days with a <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="61">1:1</a>:1 ratio. For the flour I am using a 50/50 mix of strong white bread flour and whole grain rye. My starter is definitely doubling in volume by 4 hours however the peak has been taking around 7 hours by which time it has tripled in volume. The temp in my kitchen is 27-28 degrees celcius. Would you consider this strong or does it need to peak by 4 hours regardless of volume?
I’ve got a starter I’ve had for three months. Now this was before I saw this video. Now it’s smells like a light vinegar and my bread baked have no oven spring it’s gummy even though it’s been doubling in size but I didn’t start it like he showed. I think it’s too acidic and I was using only whole wheat flour. 12 hours later with a <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="62">1:2</a>:2 ratio it doubled with a dome 12 hours later. 24 hours later is has dropped but now it has a big pocket of tiny bubbles in the middle. Is this acidic or am I feeding it too much. I never let it kill the bad bacteria. It kinda looks like the picture of what that looks like.
Here is a new video on this topic. NEW!: How to Strengthen a Weak, ACIDIC Starter (A Barnyard Tragedy) ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-PBhCXlSq6G8.html
Its 8 day my starter. For this day i feed <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="62">1:2</a>:2. And there was just little grown up in volume every day i feed. And next day i try <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="61">1:1</a>:1 like you suggest and its not growing up again :"""""" please its getting worst??? :"""
These videos have been so helpful! I’ve watched so many and I’m trying to keep straight in my head all that you’ve been saying about starters. Isn’t necessary to keep a starter at a constant temperature after a feeding, or can I warm it up slightly to get the process to happen faster? Or cool it down slightly if I need it to take longer?
Thanks. You can definitely speed up or slow down the rise by manipulating the temperature. Don’t keep it above 80F/27C for long periods of time. And really never above 85F.
I should also mention that I have been trying to bake my perfect sourdough loaf for over a year. I have had some close to ideal, but most not. And some very disappointing and even confusing. I feel like I am obsessed now with getting this right. Like how can I feel so defeated by bread?! How can something that seems so simple be so dang frustrating!? Haha. Clearly, due to all the videos like yours and others, sourdough is not easy at all. It takes a lot of work or you just get lucky sometimes. But damn it, if it does not drive me crazy trying to get it right! Thanks so much for all your videos. I have a lot of watching to do.
It is challenging. Check out my recent “sourdough apprentice” video with my brother. It is a great overview of the process and you may pick up some tips. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-WVebYEH63xM.html
@@thesourdoughjourney Well, I just finished watching it. And you weren't kidding. I picked up a TON of great tips. No wonder my bread has not been coming out the way I would like. So many things I can change. I will say I did implement some of your tips from your other vids before watching this and made the best looking loaf ever last night. I still need to get organized to implement your other tips though. Can't wait to see how my bread improves. And that was so entertaining too. You two are hilarious together. And please don't take this the wrong way, but the entire show I kept hearing Stuart Smalley's voice. Your voice and his voice sound very similar. Maybe you are from the same part of the country. Same accent. It totally cracked me up: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-To39VE2DQW4.html That a very funny, very underrated movie. Thanks again!
Great video! I have built two starters from scratch by following your two week feeding schedule, and they both seem to be doubling at 4 hours. However, I am confused a tad on the difference between peak to peak feeding, and your admonition against multiple more frequent feedings, thereby depleting the total number of yeasties in your starter. Wouldn't peak to peak feedings also deplete the total number of yeasties via discarding? Thanks in advance for your answer!
Good question I should have been more clear in this video. The short feeding intervals weaken a starter only if you discard and refeed before it peaks. When people adhere to a strict “every12 hours” for example, and the starter is not peaking before 12 hours, that’s what weakens it. It “arbitrary short intervals regardless of what the starter is doing,” that weakens it. Peak to peak always discards and refeeds after peak, by definition.
If you have old starter in the fridge, do you recommend pouring off the hooch before feeding? I did this once (after reading a RU-vid comment, a long time ago) when I was trying to get my starter going...years ago. It seemed to work, as suddenly the very young starter (that just seemed to be flour and water) came to life. I always keep at least 2 small jars of starter in the back of my fridge, in case something happens and I lose my starter (accidently use it all, and wash the jar?). When they have hooch on top, I pour it off, but I'm wondering if that's necessary, or if I'm somehow losing flavor/or good yeast? PS: I switch out the old jars occasionally, and feed them, so that the old starter is never terribly old... Having said that, I have fed a starter (after pouring off the hooch) that was abandoned in the fridge for at least a couple of months, and it came back with a couple of feedings no problem. Thanks in advance! Good video.
I have re watched this and could you clarify. You say 4 hours to double to peak for strong starter but this has to be at the ideal temperature ( 24.4 - 26.7). However, state this feeding ratio is for starter kept on the side for 24 hours in the kitchen. Today my kitchen temperature is 19 (Typical UK summer!!) So my question is on the side in the kitchen for 24 hours, not within the ideal temp range or in the oven with the light on at 24-26 for the fully 24 hours? but this would mean having to have my oven light on 24/24.
Countertop for 24 hours at 19C is fine. The “doubling in 4 hours” is really just a test of strength that you may want to do from time to time (at 25.5-27C). You can still build a strong starter at lower temperatures, but to periodically test the strength , you should do it at the warmer temp.
Tom I just would just like to say thank you 🙏🏽 for your knowledge- dedication and humour , I’m so happy to have found your channel, iv been baking sourdough for about 7 years now and I’m still learning! Your in-depth studies are going to definitely help me , I know most of my issues are because I’m not organised and are fermentation issues , but one thing you have repeatedly mentioned is fermentation is the key and that is a area I do need to work on , I have been using the fridge most of the time because we live in Australia and it gets very hot here ,,, and can I also say I’m so happy to know I don’t need to heat my oven to astronomic temperatures to get a good rise ! Iv been wasting so much Electricity! I’m going to give the cold oven and cold Dutch oven a go and see what happens, man you really get into the nitty-gritty of everything sourdough but hey I get you a lot of other channels that are very scientific. I just don’t get it but I get you! Cheers from Australia 💙🇦🇺
Very informative....Thanks! How much of the starter do you use when you go to bake? Do I only use the discard and keep the 25g of starter to keep feeding? What is the ratio needed for each loaf of bread to make say if I want to bake 10 loaves?
Thanks. A typical single loaf recipe is 500g of four and 100g of starter (20% of flour weight). To prepare for baking you want to plan ahead and make enough starter for your dough, and some small leftover amount to keep propagating your starter. A 10 loaf bath is large. You would need 2000g of starter. You may want to build that up over 2 feedings. For example, on day 1 build your quantity up to 200g, then on day 2 go up to 2000g. Here are more details on this topic. thesourdoughjourney.com/faq-starter-preparation/
Thank you Tom. I have learned so much from watching your videos. I have a starter that is on day 19 - feeding day 15 and it doubles in 8 - 10 hours can I use this strengthening method to help it double in 4 hours?
New starters often just need more time to mature. Try to time your feedings differently. You can try the peak to peak method a few times and see if it strengthens. But often with new starters, the problem is discarding and feeding too frequently. Try stretching out your feeding times and see if the starter develops more bubble activity before refeeding.
If I have to feed starter at 32-33C here in Thailand, is it possible to maintain healthy stater? Maybe feeding more frequently at peak to peak or what are you recommend? Thank you
Your starter will rise very quickly at that temperature and it’s hard to control it with a higher feeding ratio alone. You need to control the temperature. For basic maintenance of an established starter, I would feed it, let it start to rise (about half way to peak) then put it in the refrigerator. Do this about once a week. Sometimes when you take it out of the fridge, you may need to give it two feedings (peak to peak) to re-strengthen it. But you can keep a very strong healthy starter mostly in the refrigerator.
So I started my Starter less than 2 days ago and i'm a little unsure as to when to begin feeding. It has doubled in size already. Has a very "Airy" texture and does not smell rancid. I think all is going fantastic. can I begin feeding?
A mature starter basically just converts the to sugar, so theoretically, you can feed a strong starter the most basic all-purpose flour and it will thrive. However, whole wheat and rye contain other proteins, fats, minerals and enzymes that can boost the production. I actually feed mine a mix of 50% bread flour and 50% whole wheat flour, but many people say this is not necessary.
Hi, I just found out and loved your channel and informative tips. Thanks a lot. Just a question! Isn't peak feeding that you suggested and increased feeding frequency that you said a mistake practically the same things
Thank you. Good question. Not exactly. Peak-to-peak feeding typically increases the frequency, but you can also increase the frequency by feeding your starter before it peaks which actually weakens the starter. This is what I was getting at and should have been more clear. Some people say "just feed it twice a day to strengthen it" but if you are feeding twice a day before it peaks, you are actually weakening it. Thanks for the question I should have clarified this.
Sorry had a not here question I’ve been making sour dough for 2 years now do you discard every time you feed as I only bake maybe every couple of weeks so usually put it in the fridge and feed once a week or so,just came across your channel and I find it so very interesting thanks so much for sharing
My starter is a one year old one. It used to be super reactive at the beginning (at peak, it would go to 3-4x the initial volume), but now it doesn't go beyond 2x its initial volume. I'm gonna try your tricks to get it back on track, thanks a lot!
I fed my bread flour starter a bit of rye to make it stronger and it doubled but once I went back to only using bread flour it would take hours for it to double. Help!
Does altitude influence my starter? I am at 6200 ft. Also, how much starter do you need to make a loaf of bread? I never get more than about 2 cups at a time.
It believe your starter will ferment and rise slightly faster at high altitude. Here are some tips. www.theperfectloaf.com/guides/how-to-bake-sourdough-bread-at-high-altitude/ It takes about 100g of starter to make a loaf (less than about one cup). I keep about 90g daily, then bulk it up for baking as needed.
If starter in the fridge has hooch, is it mostly dead? Also, if you feed more flour than water to make stiffer, I’m guessing that it will help favor yeast growth?
Not at all. You can pour off the hooch, scoop out 30g of the good stuff. Mix it with 30g of flour and 30g of flour, and it will bounce back. Give it time to recover. It may take 3 feedings over 4 days or so.
the problem with my starter and peak to peak feeding is i’ve only had it for about two weeks and it literally doesn’t rise at all so how should i know when to feed?
This video is for mature starters. Try this one. Troubleshooting Your New Sourdough Starter: Recipe RED FLAGS and Pro Tips ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-DX3-UANTMG4.html
What a great video,,just wondering do you start to make your bread when it’s at peak time or can you make your bread once it’s doubled and do you use the float test
Thanks. Good questions. Generally you want to catch your starter at peak or shortly after for best performance. The float test is a good test but not great test of starter readiness. If your starter has not peaked and does not float, it generally needs more time to mature. If your starter has peaked and fallen and does not float, it may be too acidic for best performance. There is a wide range of when your starter will float so it does not really measure the “peak” performance. And if you stir a very strong starter or if you have a very wet starter, it may be perfectly strong but will not float.
If you always have the same amount of starter in your jar, how do you ever get to the point of building more starter to have enough to make bread or other food? I understand that you have to discard, but in another video, you still had a very small amount of starter.
I keep a small amount for daily maintenance. When preparing to bake, I bulk up the quantity I need with a large feeding the night before. For example, if I need 200g for baking, I’ll take 20g of my starter and add 90g of flour and 90g of water. This is called a leaven or levain. It is an offshoot of the starter prepared for baking. I always keep the “mother” starter in the jar, in a small quantity so I don’t create a lot of discard. Then bulk it up as needed the day before baking.
The one time feeding regimen massively increases the yeast population and reduces the acidity. It takes a long time for it to revert back to where it was.
How about aeration, Tom? *Yeast needs oxygen* for proper cell health and *reproduction.* I would think oxygen is the most critical ingredient! Once yeast has consumed all the oxygen from its environment and switches to anaerobic fermentation, reproduction grinds to a halt. When your starter is hungry, I guarantee that all the oxygen has been depleted (smell alcohol? - This is a product of anaerobic fermentation *not* aerobic fermentation). So when you feed it, the only oxygen you introduce is carried in the air pockets in your flour and how ever much is dissolved in your water, and whatever you may be incorporating by stirring up your freshly fed starter. *People who are de-chlorinating their water by boiling it, are effectively stripping it entirely of dissolved oxygen,* and then if left undisturbed until cool, and poured straight into the next feeding without aerating it first, they are not providing the yeast the oxygen it needs. If you ever want to fail at brewing beer, then don't aerate your wort after it has cooled before pitching yeast. You will not get a population increase due to the lack of oxygen, and therefore a very sluggish anaerobic fermentation that invites unwanted pathogens. So it's important to try to saturate your water with dissolved oxygen. I pour my starter water into a swing-top bottle and shake vigorously before feeding with it. It might even be of benefit to do this cooler than warmer (like 68 F instead of 78 F), because water has a higher oxygen capacity the cooler it is. The trade off of slower activity should be matched by an increase in yeast population by the time the starter is hungry again, I would think.
Thank you for sharing. Very interesting. I’ve seen cases where, if you vigorously stir your starter, post-peak, it will perk up and peak again. I need to do more research and testing on this topic!
@@thesourdoughjourney Yup, this makes sense, and it goes to show that when it starts falling, it's not due to a lack of food, but rather oxygen. In yeast production facilities, oxygen (or maybe just purified air?) is bubbled through the fermenters to maximize reproduction and prevent alcohol production. This has me curious about what may happen if you aerated a "liquid" sourdough starter continually with an air stone. I have no idea how that may impact the activity of the lactobacillus though. Maybe a yogurt maker could help answer that- I'm just a beer maker!
You are the best, most informative sourdough teacher for someone like me trying to learn all I can while waiting for my starter to mature. Your humor is a great blessing as well in a world so fraught with bad news. I wish you lived next door! Blessings to you and yours! 😊
Hi, really good videos thank Your. I have 2 months old 100 wholegrain rye starter and bake 100 percent rye bread. After initial great depth of flavour (beginners luck) and vinegar acidity (which i really like), now the loafs look great, doug grows, have good texture, moisture but they lack of TASTE almost no flavour at all, a litte bit of yeastyness but no famous rye acidity. I am trying to figure out what it is. I know it can be a very complex subcject to answer. I found for instance opinions which exlude eachother - "smaller amout of starter in leaven gives more acidity" "bigger amount of starter gives more acidity" "warmer water gives more acidity" "colder proof gives more acidity".. "make without preferment to give less acidity" "more water in a starter - less acidity" and so on..
Thanks. I've seen many of those recommendations as well. The ones that I believe work are: 1) use less starter and do longer fermentation, 2) do a long cold retard for more flavor. I don't work with a lot of 100% rye loaves, so I don't have anything more specific for you at this time, but if I find anything on that topic I will post it in a reply here.
It would peak faster because there is less food relative to the starter. The different feeding ratios are really just a way to control the time to peak and the time to next feeding. 1:1:1 is like 1 meal for 1 yeast cell. 2:1:1 is one meal for two yeast cells. They will eat it faster. 1:2:2 is two meals for one yeast cell. It will take longer for it to eat it all. Etc.
@The Sourdough Journey, <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="1666">27:46</a> You made me laugh out loud! 😃 And then the aliens, hahaha. You're good with word pictures. Thanks for helping me get this sourdough feeding stuff in my head enough to wrap my mind around it.
This is incredibly helpful and informative. I have a strong starter that works well for me. Question about flours: I have a starter that I have never used bread flour it. It is 50% whole grain rye and 50% whole grain wheat. I took it to a liquid starter (which kills off some of the acids, so it is not as sour, and lofts bread nicely). I often wonder lately why people talk about 50% whole grain wheat or rye, but never the rye and whole wheat mixed. I have not been able to find anything online about this kind of flour mix. Have you heard of it, and can you give me any directions if you have? I am finding so far that I like the results and taste. I lofted my first loaf very nicely when it the starter was only 3 weeks old. I have been feeding peak to peak the entire time (<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="62">1:2</a>:2), and the starter triples in size into the nice dome you mentioned at peak, after 5-6 hours.
Whole grain flours have beneficial enzymes and nutrients the help strengthen a starter. But much of the “food” that a starter needs is simply flour converted to sugar. That is why you often find people use a 50/50 blend of a refined flour (bread flour our all purpose) with a whole grain flour.
A question about peak to peak feeding: Am I right in thinking that, like other feeds we are discarding with each feed? If so, I don't really understand how this is different to a) feeding to frequently (like you describe with 12 hour feeding) and b) discarding so frequently that I reduce the population of the yeast? Very much in the early stages of sourdough and keen to understand. Finding your videos and website really helpful. Thank you.
Sorry, this was confusing. Shorter feeding intervals weaken the starter if you arbitrarily feed at a shorter time before it peaks. It is really the “pre peak” feeding that weakens it, not the timing alone. But if a starter is not peaking in 24 hours and you try to strengthen it by feeding it every 12 hours, it will by definition weaken it, because it can’t peak in 12 hours if it’s not peaking in 24. Peak to peak has a “variable” feeding interval. The first peak may be 18 hours, then 12 hours then 6 hours, then 4 hours.
Here’s a better explanation. The BIGGEST MISTAKE You Can Make With Your Sourdough Starter: Premature Discarding! ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-sFO532C3EAM.html
Ok, so doing a peak-to-peak feeding is good to a stronger starter? Darn it, I remember you mentioning doing a peak-to-peak method to make it stronger so that's what I just did and then came back to this video to see if I did it right and oops I did a 1-5-5 instead of a 1-1-1!😩 whatdoido😢... it's not weak, I got some dried starter from an online place called ''Sour House'', and it's doing quite well, but I want to see some major 'air pockets' which it's giving but accidentally did the the 1-5-5 at <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="450">7:30</a> pm, when should I feed again, at <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="450">7:30</a> AM or PM? Thanx so much, I hope you see this🤗
<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="1416">23:36</a> YES. This is definitely a mistake, I'm sadly speaking with experience. (also that's the reason I'm watching your video right now) I overfed my weak starter in attempt to save it. When it was even weaker, I overfed it again. And again. And I was surprised why it didn't get stronger. Well it happened because I effectively diluted it SO MUCH that I ended up with almost plain flour and water, no starter. It bubbled a bit & with every overfeeding it bubbled less and less. Doing the commonly recommended <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="65">1:5</a>:5, even 1: 10: 10 !!! feedings to save your starter, you will effectively kill your weak starter.
Is it true that you feed the starter again, when it's at the peak, instead of having it fall again? In other words,, feed it when hungry, (flat and least bubbly) or full (risen and very bubbly)?
It depends. For basic daily “sustenance” feeding, you can let it rise and fall, but not until it is completely starving. Before using it for baking, you want to discard and feed closer to peak to get it in top shape for use in dough.
Your videos are incredible! I learned so much from you! At the moment my sourdough reaches its peak in 8 hours, with a <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="64">1:4</a>:4 feeding ratio (27/28C). Do you think it’s strong enough?
This video taught me so much about strengthening my starter and understanding the yeast production. You explained so I can understand what's really happening.
Thank you for this video!! Very helpful to learn about the starter lifecycle. Question: is it okay to employ peak-to-peak feeding indefinitely or is it more optimal to wait until starter reaches Stage 6?
You could do peak to peak all the time but it can be quite wasteful. Normally you do it periodically to rebalance the starter. Then continue with a normal daily feeding like 1:2:2. But you certainly could do it all the time.
Thank you for your input! I think I am going to transition to once per day feedings as long as I make sure it doesn't reach the starvation stage which could weaken my starter. Appreciate you!
Great video. I have a question though. I understand why increasing the feeding ratio, or the feeding frequency won't help strengthen a weak starter. However, I don't really understand why peak to peak feeding will help. Surely that is also increasing the feeding frequency?
Good question. I should have been more clear. If you arbitrarily increase the feeding frequency and end up discarding before the starter has peaked, that is when the feeding frequency weakens a starter. Peak to peak ignores the clock and waits for the starter to peak. The first feeding may be 24 hours, the second 12 and the third 6. With peak to peak, you wait for the starter to tell you when to discard and refeed.
I’m looking for help on what to do and what to look for after I’ve overfed my new starter, 11 days old. (I’m new to this clearly.) I know I’ve overfed it, after watching your videos, but don’t know what to do or look for now. I’m leaving it alone in my oven with the light on. Not sure what to do next! Do you have a video on it?
Don’t let it get too warm in the oven. You never want the starter temp to get above 85F. It won’t kill it, but it makes it very acidic. I’d it has any bubbles at all, you can save it. Just give it time. Let it sit on the countertop until the top is totally covered with bubbles. Even if it takes a few days. The. Discard 2/3rd and feed 1:1:1, then wait until it peaks again (in height or bubble activity). Ignore the clock and just watch the starter. Be patient. Impatience is the enemy of a string starter.
How is peak-to-peak feeding (good) different than Mistake #1 "Overfeeding" and Mistake #2 - Increase Feeding Frequency (bad)? From my perspective if you use a higher ratio you can just wait longer for it to consume the food, increasing frequency can be bad if it hasn't reached peak yet but that's basically what peak-to-peak feeding is, increase frequency by feeding it everytime it peaks
Good question. Peak to peak ignores the clock and the feeding is triggered by watching when the starter peak. Over feeding is feeding before it peaks. Increased frequency can lead to over or under feeding by picking a fixed arbitrary feeding time (e.g., every 12 hours) which may be too early or too late based on how far along the starter is. Some people grossly oversimplify the rules and say things like “just feed it every 12 hours,” or “just feed it 1:2:2.” Neither of these are “peak to peak.”
@@thesourdoughjourney Thanks for the quick reply. So those two are really mistakes because they ignore how the starter is behaving. I will give peak-to-peak feeding a go, already fixed the temperature by keeping it in the microwave with the light and it seems to make a good difference (less acidic smelling and quicker time to peak) but still needs a bit more strength to hit 4 hr doubling
Do you have a video that addresses the problem of a starter not ever becoming active the way it’s supposed to? I’ve been working with a <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="61">1:1</a>:1 ratio from the start using unbleached white flour and bottled spring water in an average ambient room temp of about 72-75 degrees for almost a week and haven’t seen any remarkable activity yet
If you're creating a new starter, check out my video "How to Create a New Starter." It is difficult to get a starter going with just white flour. You'll typically need a 50/50 mix of whole wheat flour. Also the timing of the feedings is important. I don't discard or refeed my for the first 3 days. This really helps the microbial population get established.
Would it be wise to refrain from feeding it at this point or do you recommend just starting over with the 50/50 flour mixture you discussed in the video? I’m trying to create a starter for a specific type of ecclesiastic bread that indicates using 100% unbleached white/bread flour for the starter and I’m completely new to creating starters. Never done it before
Thanks! Cool high quality content! I would love one about autolysis, why usually is around 30 min? Also seen some doing hours! Should it be done differently for different flours?
Spelt is a “weak” flour compared to what you see in my videos. It has less gluten-forming properties, so it will generally produce a flatter loaf with a more closed crumb. It has a wonderful flavor and many people love it. Some spelt flours also ferment more slowly than other flours. Home-milled spelt will ferment faster.
My daughter gave me some of her 4 year old starter a couple months ago. She taught me to use a <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="64">1:4</a>:4 ratio, and to feed it twice a day, peak to peak (25g starter, 100g KA AP flour, & 100g filtered tap water). Should I switch to a <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="61">1:1</a>:1 using the 50-50 mix you describe? Can I make that change in one step, or is there more to it than that? I'm pretty pleased with my SD breads and bakes at this stage in the game, especially after watching many of your videos and studying up as much as possible. I sincerely appreciate your wonderfully educational and humorous videos! They've not only been super helpful in improving my results, but they continue to bring me much joy as well! Thank you again and again! PS Say "Hi!" to Bob for me!
Thank you. If your method is working, there’s no need to change. I generally do 1:2:2 instead of 1:1:1 feedings now. If you change the flours, do it gradually over a week or two.
@@thesourdoughjourney Thank you very much for your advice! I decided to take the plunge and begin my own experiment by continuing my old starter, as well as attempting a 2nd starter using your 1:2:2 ratio. I am increasing the 50-50 mixed flours (bread & whole wheat) gradually as suggested, while simultaneously decreasing the KA AP flour in calculated decreasing increments over one week! Very fun! It will be exciting to see how this new method will affect the next generation of my SD bakes! At the very least, it should prevent excess flour waste when compared to the 1:4:4 ratio (actually a 1:5:5)! Math! LOL! Thanks again and have a super great day, Tom!
