I’m 2 years into protracted injury and still on 2mg clonazepam daily. I’m recently started tapering methadone which exacerbated things and now am almost done with that (3mg daily) and will have to start tapering the benzos within the year, the benzo belly pain and headaches/confusion, memory loss, insomnia etc are already barely tolerable. Your channel has helped me tremendously and I want to say thank you. I pray it doesn’t get too bad and I am able to do it without losing even the ability to hang out and be in my daughters life. It’s so heartbreaking to know you can’t be the parent you need to be.
Dr. Josef, I assume that you haven't had an injury caused by psych drugs yourself but we desperately need more professionals like you. It's hard to understand how you so innately know the things that you do, but you are spot on with all of it. I tapered at around 6% for a period of 2 years and I finished my taper 3 or 4 years ago. I say 3 or 4 years ago because I stopped keeping up with the timeline after I was off because it wasn't about the time it took because it seemed to help to not keep up with the time after I was off. I just looked back every month or two and noticed an improvement however slight. I would love to share my story since I am mostly healed now except for insomnia that I'm handling with amitriptyline which has its own side effects but that isn't important in the big picture. I finally got my life back and I would like to help others get theirs back in some way. Excellent video by the way.
Speaking from someone who’s done this and gotten off their antidepressant after 17 years with no professional support, it’s possible but extremely painful to successfully accomplish. You’ve got to really want to get off your drug at any cost, it’s the way it is unfortunately. It’s war. I go over my experience on my channel. Great to see a psychiatrist actually talking about these topics, great to see 👍
Hi Thanks for the kind words would you be willing to let me interview you for this channel? (you're story starting meds, stopping them, advice to others etc)
Hi there, no problem. I’m currently in the early stages of my recovery from the drug damage, injury. I’d really love to do this interview, but it’s far to early to do so on my part. Is it possible we can do this later on in the year ? Thanks.
@@livingunderachemicalinflue5849 of course no rush. I wish you well on your recovery. You're channel is great also, really nice that you're talking about your experience in recovery
Hello. First thank you and your wife for this channel. I hope that it gets big one day and that people can get the information and help that they need. I feel like the benzodiazepines for sure cause some kind of injury when you reinstate after a taper. I tapered over a period of a year. I started off way too fast and ended up with horrible muscle issues. I got stable and did a slow taper. My muscle issues flared up every time that I made a cut but they eventually evened out to the normal level that I was use to in about three weeks and then I would cut again when it hit four weeks. I finished my taper and I was doing well. I was on Zoloft during my taper and after. I did do too fast of a taper off of my Zoloft because I was pregnant and I didn’t want my baby to be born and have to go through withdrawals. After I had my baby I had the most horrible anxiety and baby blues. I reinstated the benzodiazepine and Zoloft. While I was on the medication I could feel my muscles popping and twitching and it was out of control. I knew that it was the medication that was doing it because I stopped having that symptom after I finished my taper but I needed the medication. Now I’m tapering the benzodiazepine again because I feel like I don’t need it anymore and I’m back at square one because of the injury caused by reinstating the benzodiazepine but at least I know how to deal with the muscle problems and I’m going slower this time. I think it will get better once I get off again because then I can start to truly heal. I’m not sure when I will start a taper off the Zoloft. Maybe a year after I finish the benzodiazepine taper.
1000% anytime you reinstate a higher amount after tapering down there is some kind of damage It's called kindling and I can attest to it personally. I'm on .125/day alp - which is what most would consider nothing - but if I bump that up by 50% due to an extreme life event, I'm significantly impacted for weeks with severe withdrawal symptoms that simulate heart issues and other problems. It seems to happen with anything that impacts GABA - like alcohol. If I have even a single beer I'll have really nasty hangover symptoms
Thank you, Dr. Joseph, for addressing the question I sent you the other night regarding my wife's difficulty tapering off Lex. (under 5mg) after a Lorazepam tapering that ended seven months ago. There is some background it would be great for you to have to assess what she is going through. She has always been very reactive to meds, and every day she takes the dose, it feels like she is poisoning herself. The boat effect she was experiencing once in a while has become constant, and she is very unstable on her feet. Such suffering all the time, and combined with Akathisia, there is never a moment when she can rest. She talks about Parkinsonism. The toxicity of this med is evident in her case, and she cannot wait to be off it entirely, although she thinks that she might never be able to get off it, given the painful progression of the tapering. She had to get back up slightly to alleviate the pain yesterday. I wish we could see you, but we are in Canada. Thank God we are communicating nonetheless.
Yikes. Akathisia is horrible. Very sorry she's experiencing this. I myself have been using the habit of smoking organic tobacco so as to deal with akathisia likely the result of benzo injury, only to have to quit smoking as well due to something very bizarre--spiritual warfare with satanists. Christians are a--holes and satanists even worse, so it's been a bad time. But it has reminded me of the problem so many face, with benzo belly and akathisia coming together. Extreme heat therapy to the head via hot water immersion in a super heated hot tub or sauna is very valuable. But nobody will do it because we are chickens when it comes to taking responsibility for such things. Wish I had better advice. Certainly a big of Epsom salt under the tongue can help.
I have watched your videos tonight and have learned a lot! Yes I am very scared of what I have done to myself and will I die before my life gets better. Really need to write you a letter and tell you more about my experience and what I have gotten myself into today. I can come visit you if you want me to. If I don’t hear from you I will get my office manager to try and find a place to send a letter . I want to see if I can change my life ! Today I am wondering
I was just referred to you by a friend. So grateful to listen to your bio and your other videos. Thank you. Please, do you have suggestions for insomnia in a year and four months of protracted withdrawal from Cymbalta? Averaging 4-5 hours a night. In a sleep CBT program that hasn’t helped much. Again, thank you.
I listen to everything you say and have learned so much. I had to go back on a small amount of klonopin after 27 years of 6 mg. per day. I had a horrible reaction and was in the hospital 8 days with seizures and coded. My psychiatrist disagrees that I should not have gone back on even a little bit but doing what is right for me. Thank you for helping so many.
Based on my experience with the supervision of a Psychiatrist because you can die due to seizures by just stopping the med. At the time I was 70 and had been taking Ativan minimum dose for several years. I started having severe panic attacks daily at about the time Ativan was due for the next dose. Once a day. In the USofA I had difficulty finding a Psychiatrist because of being of Medicare age. Fortunately, I was given a referral to a Psychiatrist for treatment. Apparently, this Ativan addiction is quite common. What I did with Doctor supervision. Bought a pill cutter and over a period of three months kept taking smaller doses. 2mg was the dose I’d taken for several years. Final doses were a quarter of a tablet using the pill cutter. During this time I was also prescribed sertraline. Ten years later I’m taking no stress or anxiety meds. Through counseling I did remove myself from a stressful environment which may have contributed to the anxiety.
I am still on my 0.75 Klonopin. I know when I do finally finish a tpaer, I am going to miss it. It helped me get through my most difficult times. Klonopin helped me come off celexa after 10 years. I had to go back up to 0.75 of klonopin. I was just going through a very rough time
I have small fiber neuropathy and I think it was caused from rapid taper that I had no control of . After one is off there is really no help from professionals like neurologists only from peers .
@@nicolelambic pins and needles , burning , pain. I am talking mainly my calves and below although I believe at one point it affected my whole body . I have loss of pain sensation in my feet although I have a lot of pain , Achilles tendon reflex is barely there , my sense of vibration is intact . A skin biopsy is the definitive way of testing from what I was told wether you have it or not . I am not diabetic and no underlying cause has been found at this point .
@@Dr-X Thanks for the reply. I have a lot of neuropathic pain and some numbness, pins/needles, falling asleep stuff as well. Mine is most severe in the posterior ribs, down to the pelvis, butt, legs and feet. Mine is like a ripping, shredding, barbed-wire type pain - it has a feeling of movement to it. When I was tested at neurology, though, I had hyperreflexia. I haven't been tested for small fibre neuropathy.
Gary Simone , I hear you. After 25 years on paroxitine, it took 2 years to taper off. I didn't sleep right for at least 18 months. I would get out of bed, and do whatever comforted me. ( Music , RU-vid, writing , painting, piddling around the house) I took cat naps daily. I tried to exercise - by that I mean walking, anything to move my body. That often paid off the next night. Eating clean seemed to help, try eating solid protein right before bed- like beef. As of now, sleep is returning. It DOES come back. I still have horrible nights, but cat nap the next day. Be blessed in this journey. Life really does slowly get better.
@Susan Morgan thank you for the encouragement , thanks a ton. You have sleep anxity as well AT night, I find myself fighting myself, trying hard not to stress over sleep, you fighting same battle ? Thanks
@@garysimone4977 sleep anxiety is common with insomnia. Try to hide the clock and just accept this is the situation now, instead of fighting it. Sleep is something that runs away if we chase it. Instead, do something else that helps you relax in darkness. For example, listen to a sleep story or podcast without staring at phone light, or read in dim light, or do a guided meditation (yoga nidra is especially recommended because it induces a state of relaxation similar to sleep). Whatever you do, avoid obsessing over not sleeping. Distract and relax and get out of your mind instead. Hope this helps.
@mcb00 yes it helps alot much appreciated I fall asleep at 5-6am and sleep till 10am or so, I am retired so it's ok for now. I was told until the receptors heal the excess cortisol is what is keeping me up. I feel so wired, like I can run a marathon at 3am every night...and when I do wake up dam it's rough as the cortisol spike hits...so until my system / cortisol return to normal I need to accept ????? That so ?
I hit tolerance after 15 years of 1mg klonopin. I tgen tried to taper much to fast at became very sick. I then stopped tapering and stayed at .75mg for a year to stabilize. After that I tapered off the .75mg over 18 months. I am three months free of klonopin and feel terrible with a lot of the common symptoms but I do know that pausing and waiting for my nervous system to stabilize helped me taper off. Thank you for your help DR
I'm nearly 2 weeks off medication. I was on antidepressants/antipsychotics for around 6 years. In the end dabbled with pregabalin and benzos. Honestly, I hit a sort of tolerance state years ago. It's paired with substance abuse disorder. I'm only 30 and feel like I died years ago. But yeah, not even sure I can make it through this anymore. Too impaired mentally. I do not understand tapering and everytime I try even reinstating a small dose I get too jumbled in the head and throw them away. Extreme kindling? Nowhere to go from here really. There is no help for someone who cannot comprehend the mess he is even in anymore.
I’m currently weaning myself off of an antidepressant that I was bridged with when I came off of a fast taper of Cymbalta. Currently still have withdrawals 3 years later. I was too afraid to do anything major because I was suffering. I’m just hoping I don’t have a dependence on it. I reduced it 10 mg and still have 20 to go. 😐
Thanks for making this video I'm am having to taper gabapentin after cold turkey a benzo over a year ago plus Zoloft 8 months ago. So far my symptoms are pretty much the same. Does gabapentin cause protracted wd?
Yep I dropped too fast with my Effexor and reinstated to original dose and tried to wait for stability.. not much help, like you say damage has been done? But by staying on this dose, do I have a chance to stablise?? It’s been 4 months now and I still feel the injury but I do notice about a 25% improvement.. maybe even higher.. the cut I did with Effexor left me debilitated, reintroduced original dose about a month later after cutting the dose and it seemed like it shocked my nervous system a little.. I guess I’m very sensitive but wow these drugs are powerful.. been on Effexor same dose 75mg for 10 years too so that could be why the damage occurred after cutting too low..
Well, if you cut now, you may worsen, because you're starting already unstable. Unless you're having severe side effects that are worse than the withdrawal, you are better off allowing more time for full stability. It will give you a better chance to have a better taper. You can also work on decreasing/managing stress in the meantime, and mindfulness skills through therapy, as that will also help you have a smoother taper. Stress makes withdrawal worse every time.
I live in Australia and my prescription medication was stop abruptly by my doctor because of changes to the dispensing laws by government. I was put on Oxazepam 30 mg a day after being on Alazopram for 13 years at 1 to 2mg daily. After a month i started to get dizziness in the form a rocking sensation, anxiety, tinnitus, headaches and insomnia.....i ended up in hospital for 7 days. All my scans were clear and the doctors had no idea including psychiatrists of what to do. I was taking 2mg of Kalma (Alazopram) legally for 13 years before the Australian government stopped my GP from prescribing it. At that time I was given no pathway or support on what to do other than i had to see a psychiatrist. This was in January 2023 i saw a psychiatrist in on May 16 2023....thats 5 months to long. I was sent home from the hospital with 5 x 10mg tablets of Valium and told to reduce tha valium over a course of 6 weeks and resume medication that was given to me in January the Oxazepam. There are a few issues here.... 1. The abrupt ceasing of medication by Government and doctor who prescribed me the medication 13 years ago. 2. Hospital and Dr othering no direct pathway for patients to access medication that was legitimately prescribed to them. 3. Doctors and Psychiatrists are not aware of the dosage equivalent s of these medication. Example O.5mg of Alazopram is the same as 10mg of Valium. I was on 2mg sometimes 3mg of Alazopram when needed a day. That equates to 60mg of Valium a day....40mg of Oxazepam...i was put on 30 mg of Oxazepam in January a day...10mg short of what i should have been on. 4. Even though these medications are in the same class they have different effects on our nervous system. 5. Not one one doctor incuding the psychiatrist has ever heard of the Ashton Manual. Im 59 years of age, i was fuctioning ok for 13 years until they yanked my prescription medication away from me. Since January this year I have been a mess....trying to follow what Psychiatrist and Hospital doctors have told me to do but none of them are interested in the actual withdrawal side. Im now in a situation of having seen a Psychiatrist, at that point i was taking 2.5mg of Valium 3 x daily and not functioning. He wants me to go back to my original Alazopram dose of 2 to 3mg a day to stabilize me and get me functioning. My delimma is i have now been off Alazopram for 5 months and on 2.5mg 3 x daily of valium but not functioning. I am so scared of going back on it after experiencing the withdrawal symptoms but i want to function and start my life again. Im 59 i dont have time nor the money to stay at this point on 2.5mg of valium 3 x daily since march...the equivalent daily dose of Alazopram is 0.4mg a day. My question is should i go back to my original Medication and dosage now im under the supervision of a psychiatrist in order to function and then taper slowly when ready? A big part of me is saying keep going on the valium but 10 mg x 4 daily to stabilise because what is the point of going back on the original if the withdrawal symptoms don't disappear. I just feel like i have been totally abandoned by the medical profession...i pray we can all come out the other side. ❤ To be clear I have only been on valium since leaving hospital in March. At the time of seeing the psychiatrist i had gotten the valium down to a total of 7.5mg a day. The psychiatrist wants me to do the following: Keep taking 2.5 for one week, morning and night then 2.5 mg for one week in the morning while returning to my original Alazopram of 2mg daily up to 3mg if needed. I think tapering is a fantastic think to be doing but its about physical risk vs mental functioning. Whats the point of a taper if your not functioning from the beginning? Doctors need to trust the patients they have prescribed this medication to. There will be people that will never get off this medication and they should not be punished for it if they prescribed by doctors legitimately for anxiety and depression.
I’m tapering off V 5% every 4 weeks. I am at 2.4 ml and I’m having extreme low energy. Not just tired, more like the plug got pulled out. Should I get blood tests to see if it’s thyroid or possibly vitamin deficiencies? Or could it be mitochondria issues? I also have episodes of POTS during this. By the way, prior to this severe lack of energy, I had mostly lots of extreme anxiety before this recent drop. What can I do to help me regain life force energy???
Do you have any advice for severe acne, extreme systems surrounding menstrual cycle? I’m down to a very low dose, but in a lot of discomfort. The acne is extremely painful and inflamed. I can’t handle antibiotics or anti-histamines.
I was on benzos for 40 years. Zopiclone for decades too. I got severely injured weaning off both. I almost died with both. Everytime I dropped the dose, I was stopping breathing, my throat was closing AWAKE, my body was shutting down. Everytime I dropped the dose I was in medical crisis in many different ways, neurological but respiratory too. Many ways. I wonder why? I was off in July and by Sept I was fighting for my life, fighting to get a tracheostomy?? But why?? Here I am a couple years later,, fighting for medical help, barely hanging in there. I'm sleeping upright. I can't take much more. I have Chiari Malformation. Is this why things are so bad? I cannot go on like this.
Re: next cut: please clarify: 5-10% of original (say .5 x 3/day) or 5-10% of what you have tapered down to (say .25 x / day) and holding? This has not been made clear anywhere I have been reading.
Always take the percent off of the current dose amount. If you always take the same percentage off of the original then you will have a linear taper. Linear taper is not slow. Hyperbolic taper always uses the current amount to make the next cut. Hyperbolic taper is what he always recommends.
The taper rate does not seem to depend on whether it helps or not. There's no research on this, but based on anecdotal evidence, it seems to depend more on time on the med, dose, half life, prior experience with withdrawal, prior drug history, likely genetics, current stress level. The single most important factor is to listen to your body and taper as slow as needed to avoid withdrawal.
I kindled my ssri last summer. Was put on a benzo for 3 months. Severe acute wd from not tapering properly or low enough. Six months off now. Still have mental issues no physical. I am still on the SSRI. I have no idea if my issues are the SSRI or the Benzo. I don't know if it is safe to taper the SSRI. right now on flu 7.5mg. Can it be damaging me still?
