How to Tent in the Rain, But Stay DRY 

Why shouldn't a tent be set up on gravel?

@@Ist_Geheim guess they don't want too many peas under the mattress 😏

Is it really necessary to tell people in a video to push the sandy gravel bed of a state campsite back flat and leave the site just as nice as one finds it in a video? Your critique is by the far the most common that I hear on this video and it seems baffling to me that people think it's necessary to note in a video that people should leave the site as they find it. Are comments like yours just trying to look for things to pick at? Picking up after one's self is (should be) automatic.

Sorry but in rain that's flooding your camp trench is good. Refill before leaving if not flooded. But on usual rain no trench. And totally tuck the ground tarp under.

Digging a trench around your campsite is so 1980's practice. This is exactly what I read in a BSA manual from that era. This is not acceptable for Leave No Trace camping of today. Choose better equipment and find a better drainage tent site.

Leaving a key outside to prevent one from being locked out of one's house is so 1980's too. We have smart locks for doors today. But for situations where a smart lock isn't an option, a key outside still works. Also, are you serious about "leave no trace" in a gravel sandbox camp pad? Do you have kids? Are you aware of how easy it is to fill and recompact the sandy gravel on these sorts of camping pads? If not, it's very easy.@@ThaiXLe

​@@PraxisPrepper People in general sucks when it comes to cleaning up after themselves. I have seen so many backcountry campgrounds with all the low hanging branches have been stripped for firewood, human waste and used TP littering the ground. Advocating for this trenching practice even in parks that allows these (I dont know of any state or national parks that will take kindly to anyone doing this to their campsite.) is not good. Mulitply this by a 100x or 1000x campers. Not everyone will replace the soil back (go back to my statement about people not cleaning up after themselves.) Some will even carry this practice into the backcountry with even more negative impact. Finding a great tent site is one of backcountry skill I take pride to have developed over the years backpacking. Looking for one with no widowmakers, having a great vista to wake up to in the morning, finding one with protection from the wind, visualize & avoiding possible water drainage path from rain, and having the foresight to see camping in that sunken meadow might not be good due to the cold air collecting there overnight. This time and effort to do this is a fraction of the physical effort to dig a trench. Now in my opinion, it is better to be an influencer that will espousing good camping conservation practices from developing your skills. This should be a big thing for you if you care about leaving these national park, fishing and hunting grounds better than we have for the next generations. I am no granola eating tree hugger. I grew up in the south and am a 2A Asian redneck. One thing I learn growing up is leave things better than you find it. I hope you understand where I am coming from and understand the "ethical" camping POV that I have.

Always good to have something and not need it than need it and not have it. An entrenching tool is so small too that even though one can use a stick or a rock to do the same job, it seems worth it to have the tool because it makes it so much easier. :)

Thanks Deborah. That's nice of you to feel that way. Thanks for sharing! :)

Thank you!

Thanks BWT!

Yeah, some campgrounds have a lot of rules. I tend to not much care for blanket rules, but in the case of campgrounds, I can see why they do it - and agree with them for doing so. The public (at large) is a pack of horribly irresponsible adult children who wreak havoc whenever allowed to do so. Some of the things I've seen people do at campgrounds (from drilling screws into trees to nearly starting forest fires... ugh. No wonder we in the public have a bad rap! ;)

I'm glad you found the info useful. Thanks for letting me know!

As a Boy Scout 70 years ago, trenching was part of pitching our GI Military Surplus Pup Tent.

Having used mine a lot, I can definitely see why the Boy Scouts taught it!@@azclaimjumper

I know a lot of these shovels talk about their use as a chopping implement, but I've never felt comfortable using them for any impact purposes due to durability concerns. That's why I always pack a shovel and a short machete.

They worked pretty amazing at camp penalaton the mountain rocks shitty digs

Good to hear it. It's nice when gear actually works in the real world! :)@@user-cw4ce5rl1v

Good for natural camoflage and kindling wood, by '82 they improved the jam nut and went with a larger rivet pinion pin. Still have 2 that I found on return police calls to bivouac areas. Great camper special and a good idea for winter driving.

I love your screen name. I DIY-create a lot of my best tools out of trash! :)

Wait, I looked closer and it's thrash. Not trash. Oops. I just got outed on my trash-repurposing habits!

Thank you. No worries at all, made me laugh 🤣

Glad it was helpful!

You're very welcome. I especially appreciate the positive (and polite) comment after the last week where nearly everyone seeing this video has been ripping into how terrible it is to use ditches to divert water around a tent. So your comment makes my day! Thanks!

I'm thinking maybe you haven't been camping at any campsites like this that is very clearly just a layer of packed gravel and doesn't mind in the least whether it's trenched. Am I right on that of are you aware of some way that trenching gravel and then packing the trenches back in somehow leaves the campsite worse off than it was found?

@@PraxisAdventures Very conservatively, I have spent at least 500 nights in tents - and this ignores all the nights camping with my family as a child / teenager. I have camped in a wide variety of conditions: hard rock, snow, grass fields,, etc. One month ago I was on the JMT and we camped at one site in Lyell Canyon that was essentially thick gravel. Digging a trench around my tent has never crossed my mind because it hasn't been necessary to keep dry - and no wet tents. The only digging that I have done is to level out snow fields - which melted in the spring leaving no trace on the environment.

Awesome. It's great that you get out so much. But, per your description of your experiences, it sounds like you've never worked much with this sort of campground gravel-like medium. You're 100% correct about other natural environments being damaged by trenching (although if clumps of topsoil are pulled out in chunks and then replaced when one breaks camp, the damage can be very minimal). But for this sort of gravel material, being worried about trenching is essentially like worrying that toddlers will destroy the integrity of the sand in a sandbox as they play. So while your point about site degradation is on point for many natural environments, it's not really applicable to locations similar to what's shown in this video, which is essentially a human-made sandbox environment. I haven't ever camped out in the John Muir area, but I'd love to someday.@@panhandlejake6200

So where are you taking a dump? On top of the ground for someone to step in?

@@maxsparks5183 Totally different situation. Use a SMALL hole about 6 inches deep. Cover it when done. Most backcountry trails want you to pack out the TP which is becoming a problem. Some even require packing EVERYTHING out in Wag Bags. Properly done, this is FAR less damaging to the environment than digging a long trench around a tent - which as I stated, with over 500 nights in a tent, I have never had to use a trench to stay dry even in heavy rain.

Thanks Margieest!

Thanks Victor!

Thanks Sue. :)

Glad you like them!

Thanks out and about! :)

Hey Mike! No, I still run that channel, but RU-vid has... um... "done some things" that have lead a LOT of people who had subscribed to my channel to be essentially dissuaded from knowing I was still active. I hear from at least one or two people a month telling me that they were unsubbed without knowing and RU-vid had stopped any notifications about my videos from going out. It seemed like it started right around covid. I was one of those people who discussed the possibility of certain unpopular (at the time - now seen as common knowledge) ideas potentially being reality. Oddly enough, all of the unpopular ideas that I suggested might have been possible turned out to actually be the truth, but RU-vid never undid whatever they did to my channel after the fact. So it remains a crushed channel with very apparent glass ceilings etc. It seemed weird that my channel was so targeted whereas other totally crazy channels were not. Perhaps it was that my monologs sounded plausible (again, they DID all turn out to be true in the end) that causes the focus - no need to stifle people who sounded clearly crazy to begin with. I was just discussing ideas like how covid was likely airborne (at the beginning the government suggested it was not), how respirators were necessary for blocking illness in the air (the government was saying that people could use random cloth fabric for that purpose), and how the vaccines were likely to not be a long-term solution (based on how rapidly coronaviruses mutate). I'd also suggested that the duration of testing on the vaccines wasn't long enough to glean long-term conclusions. Every bit of that turned out to be true, but the RU-vid crush persists. So I tried starting another channel. Welcome to this one! if you want to check in on my original channel, it's still up and active. I finished season 2 of the Alien Invasion series (if you'd seen season 1). Here it is: www.youtube.com/@PraxisPrepper

Thanks 👍

You're welcome. Thx for the comment. :)

A bigger tarp would definitely reduce the potential need for trenching as long as the slope was agreeable. I'm curious why you don't let your tarp touch your tent. Is it a loading concern? Friction? I'd love to hear your thoughts if you don't mind sharing.

@@PraxisAdventures we have had trouble with tarps leaking when they touched our tent. Probably because they weren’t very good tarps. Our tent is very waterproof and has a full coverage rain fly so we really don’t need to use a tarp however, if you hang your tarp right when you get to camp (when raining) you can set up your tent without everything getting wet. We always hang our tarps and plan when we want it to drain, sometimes in heavy rain you still get a pool at one end of the tarp. Sometimes a clip and a tie out will keep it from happening but nobody’s perfect and you have to be flexible to adjust your setup, sometimes more than once.

It sounds like you have a lot of experience with this too! I always joke that whatever week, I set my camping trip, people should be warned because that's the week that we can all expect rain. I once drove up to our state campground at the base of a mountain and (due to the air rising over the mountain and cooling, it was raining ONLY right over our campground! LOL. Experiences like that and ones that you've had definitely are good teachers!@@Olyphoto7

@@PraxisAdventures There may be better answers, but for me, I find that ongoing rain showers put a fine mist (or high humidity) in the air. Eventually this dampens just about everything, even though my gear is technically "in the dry". Maximizing the ventilation helps decrease this problem.

Yeah, that's the case for sure. Dry days now and then help if the tent flaps can be opened during them.@@oldgettingolderhopefully6997

That's a very good point that someone making a video about this topic would do well to include in such a video... ;) Thanks for putting it in the comments here. I think I'll add it to the video description text too.

Affirmative, i have been yelled at

That's a good way to keep them up too. I've heard a lot of great things about "Flex Seal" from people who have watched this video. I'm planning to try that out myself at some point too.

I agree about the travel aspects you mentioned. The tarps I bring definitely are not light or small when folded. I've car camped with my boy every year since he was 3 or 4 or so, so we don't have to skimp on luxuries like extra tarps. But for sure, backwoods hiking in camping... tarps like these would be a lot of extra weight to pack in and out.

That's what's great about social media - when we can share experiences and lean that we're not alone in issues that we face.

It's a bit crazy how many people DON'T know that trick. I had one viewer comment that this video was too boringly long for them and criticized that it was 13 minutes and all I was suggesting was to put a tarp over a tent. I guess they didn't have the patience to get to the part where we dig the trench to make sure the water from the tarp doesn't run right back under the tent. Hard to feel bad for someone like that if they go camping and get wet because they didn't know to trench. At some point individuals need to be able to put SOME effort into learning something new. ;)

I didn't know that about their practices. Thanks for sharing.

Yep, we have the same shirt. My ex wife gave it to me. She loves getting me snarky skirts. I'm wearing one right now actually. It says something about how I'm a brain eating zombie, but the reader of the short is safe (ostensibly because they have no brain I'm presuming).

Thanks Alex. I'm often times accused of yapping a bit myself (I don't pre-write scripts or anything) so I'm glad this video didn't seem yappy.

Good tip on the retreating!

For sure. Far too few people today even seem to know the basics. It leaves a lot of people unable to take care of basic things on their own.

You hit that on the nose. These tips are just basic things that far too few modern people seem to have been taught in their youth. I see so many campers out having a miserable time because they don't know how to manage inclement weather. And that's sort of bad for all of us - because the more people there are who can go out and enjoy nature, then the more people there will be who appreciate it, value it, and then (likely) will want to protect and preserve it. :)

I feel that same way myself whenever I go too! If not in the day, almost every night it seems to rain. Keeps the crowds down though! ;)

You too. Stay dry! ;)

It's always a bit of a pain to have so many rules when camping. I can definitely understand why the campground make such broad rules - given how irresponsible many people can be. But it stinks for responsible people who wouldn't do any damage because we know what we're doing.

@@PraxisAdventures Sure does stink. You are right about stupid. The other I think is some of these parks with water and garbage are getting such a high density use some years . That it is a preventative measure.

How does your method prevent water from coming in from above if the rain fly starts leaking? Your approach seems solid on water from above, but doesn't address the other direction (as far as I can tell).

Glad it was helpful!

That's more of an issue when it's cold outside, and I wasn't facing that challenge in this video. But it's a real phenomena when the air outside is cold. As far as I know, the only way to deal with that is with ventilation bringing in dry air from outside, but I'm not an expert there. I don't do very much cold-weather camping... in fact, the only times I've ever done it has been accident. It's a good question to have answered if you plan to camp in the cold though. We emit a lot of water when we're in a tent.

Go home.

Good question. I think it's always important to leave things exactly as one finds them (or better if one finds litter etc.)

I talk about that approach in this video, but also talk about trenching for situations when it doesn't work. I also don't think anyone would kick out a trencher if the trencher asked permission to trench. Doing things without asking permission on someone else's land is always inappropriate no matter what you're doing.

I'd recommend against camping in a location where water will be flowing under the tent and one is not legally able to prevent that from happening. If ditching or mounding isn't seen an option, one should stick to the crowns of hills. That'd be my advice.

One word: Hammock

@@DiabloOutdoors .. Be sure of you sites ,, getting to be many state and federal parks and trails don't allow most hammock systems due to tree damage ..

@@rockytopwrangler2069 True that Wrangler. This situation is mostly because of the careless people not using straps instead of the cordage to attache their hammock to the trees. Some places will allow you to use a hammock IF you're also using straps. Some won't allow whatever you're using. Thx Wrangler!

That's a good bit of advice for initial performance, but I always find that over time, no matter the rating, the fly either needs to be re-treated (which I find to be a bit of a pain) or a tarp use in lieu of the fly working at 100%.

I'd be a pretty awful guest if I didn't wouldn't I. I like to think that it goes without saying that one should leave a campsite as one found it (or better).

@@PraxisAdventures You're ideas are actually very great although all that point set aside be it wiser to this other point of understanding that what you are doing as is in many camp grounds somthings as that could very well be considured illegal Always best to ask for permisions ahead of time as to avoide being kicked out or in trouble by being fined specialy if ones camping within our provincial parks such as we have many of as here in Canada !! Please allow me to further explain such as they consider everything protected and by digging a trench or picking up even a piece of wood off the grounds or as tying things up to trees and so much more rediculous things as they actually look at as disturbing nature and there are actual laws setup against doing this and one can be fined for it by the parks officers that often roam around looking for campers who break their rediculous laws !! yes I learned the hard way myself as I had picked up a few sticks laying on the grounds to build my fire and as the ego tripping prick officers looked on while i doing it but said nothing at all right at the time to stop me till already had my camp fire started then they walked up to my camp site and issued me with a rediculous 160 dollar fine for disturbing nature !! Man was i ever so very damn upset but of course I said nothing much in anyway to try defend myself or they would have simple upset me all the more so by kicking me out just as my weekend camping trip got started !! Bottom line I will never camp in a Provincial Camping Grounds ever again as the cost was140 bucks just for a long weekend camp site and they made me buy my fire wood off them as 3 small bags of wood that cost me 60 bucks so the cost in total alongside of the rediculous fine was 360 dollars plus tax !! and as well never mind the additional cost in gas for my car travels to get there WOW what a rip off !!! This was by far obviously the worst camping experience of my lifetime and as I offer anyone this kind advise beware and be careful if you deside to ever go camping here within Canada !!! Praxis Advetures Perhaps you can do a short video on this subject matter ? Thank You for the great video cheers from Canada my new friend I have just Subscibed !!!

That story just leaves one with that crappy feeling in one's throat. The way they treated you as a thing (to be used to make money) vs a person just sucks. If they ACTUALLY cared about what the rules are intended to achieve, they would have politely given you a heads up about it before hand. That could have left you informed, the park "safe" and the interaction very positive. It also likely would have left the campground with MORE money because you likely would have returned for another trip in the future - where now I can't imagine you'd ever go back. That's just really lame (and short-sighted) that they handled it that way. I believe you're right that it was their way of giving themselves a serotonin boost by exercising their power over you in a heavy-handed and unhelpful way. Rules are there (ideally) to make the world a better place - not to try to extort money out of people. I might make a video about this sort of topic in the future if I can crystalize my thoughts into something constructive for viewers. Thanks for sharing your story here.@@truth431

@@PraxisAdventures Thank you for you're understanding much appreciated as well I just been talking with an owner of a privet cottage /camping /fishing resort in southern Ontario Canada !! about a property maintainance position comes with a 3 bedroom cottage re of my duties plus soime additional salleries !! its year round and he has boat rentals for his guest and its on rice lake near the closest city called Peterborough Ontario look it up on google !! as well there is ice fishing which I truly like to do during our long drawn out Canadian Winters LOL well I meet the owner next week to go over more details about the managment job !! Thanks again I'm looking forwards to seeing more of you're great videos in the future !! 👍 🍁All the best wishes from Canada🍁TRUTH🙂

That's an awesome job prospect. Good luck. My only advice for people trying to land a job, is to remember what we're all REALLY there to do when we get hired - to take problems that our "bosses" have, and make them go away. Your potential future boss has a problem. They have this resort that's a pain in their neck half the time. There's things to clean, things to fix, to unclog, to sort, evaluate, and to take care of. They don't want all those issues to deal with. If you can make them believe that you'll make all those hassles disappear, and then when hired, make good on that promise, the job will be yours and the boss will be very happy they met you.@@truth431

Have you used those cheap tarps yourself? I've used a LOT of tarps for construction and camping and those cheaper ones don't last very long.

Yeah, a regular small garden trowel would work great too. Having used sticks and rocks plenty of time myself, I can agree that they work just as well (over time). The shovels make it a lot easier and quicker though. But for sure, improvising is great too - and keeps us mentally on our toes! :) Great comment - thx for leaving it!

@@PraxisAdventures Yeah the shovel is nice, unless you're backpacking or hiding it in your girlfriend's backpack lol I'll watch your other videos that's for sure!

You probably should take into account where you're setting up a camp to design the camp best. I'd advise against following what some guy does in a dense forest to decide how to set up a camp in a wide open windy location.

I'm glad you found it helpful. Here in the North East US, rain is our thang in the summer. And I SWEAR it specifically follows me whenever I'm camping. One year, as I pulled up to our campsite, I saw that it was raining... ONLY over our campground and nowhere else in the surrounding area. The campground was at the base of a mountain and the air flowing over it was condensating into rain, so there was a definitely scientific reason for the campground only rain... but GEEZ nature! ;)

I hated tea until I was in my mid 20's and then something... snapped. And now I love it. I chug the stuff all day when I'm working in the sun. I love the smell of coffee, and for that reason, I love to make it for other people. But I can't stand drinking coffee... yet. Maybe someday something else will snap and I'll become a coffee fiend! ;)

I wouldnt suggest people do anything against the rules of anyplace unless their lives were in danger. But legal or not, the method works very well.

I know it! IALWAYS have to dry my tent out at home too. ;)

I'm glad the video makes you happy. Most people recently have told me it made them mad. (People don't need much to get mad these days I think.)

I think in some circumstances the idea you note here is probably impactful. In many cases, when just diverting around a small tent though, the water quickly rejoins where it would have gone anyhow. But that's a good point for people to consider if they might do a larger distance diversion.

@@PraxisAdventures thanks, your tips are great. 👍

It's definitely got its charms! :)

Most people have the capacity to dig a ditch in sand or gravel and to fill it in such that no trace is left... although, I've discovered from comments like yours that some people have trouble with this. So maybe it's not for everyone. Prior to making this video I wasn't aware that this was such a challenge for some people.

Yes you could be right !!!

I take people at their word that this is a challenge. So I think I was wrong that leaving places as one finds them goes without saying. Sometimes I think I live in a bit of a bubble where I forget that things that some find common-sense, others find challenging. That's one of the things I like about posting videos on RU-vid; people always come out to remind me when I've been living under a rock on certain things.@@jamesdobson5022

100% pure internet comment. Uninformed, mean-spirited, and unconstructive. Pure art.

Very good advice. This video was about mitigating issues where one doesn't have a choice about setting up location, but you're 100% correct, the best way to avoid issues isn't to change the site, but to avoid bad locations.

This is a great comment. Positive and constructive. A number of other people have noted that trenching DOES come with downsides - few as well-spoken and polite as you. For me, I take it as a given that one should leave a site a one found it, but you're right that I don't mention that in this video. Perhaps I should have. It's an automatic for me, but based on the liter we all see driving down the road, it's clear that's not how everyone acts. Although that said, adding a note about it in a video likely wouldn't change the habits of most people who DO leave messes for others... but for new campers, maybe it would have been a good thing to note in the video.

IDK if it's an advertisement for SOG given that I said that people could make due with a rock, a stick, or even a lawn chair and get the same job done. Would it have been possible for me to have shown the tool that I use WITHOUT you feeling as though it was an advertisement? Good tips on keeping out of wide open spaces. That's also good for keeping out of intense sun and wind too.

When it comes to gravel pads at camp grounds, both are achievable. So it's not a situation where one needs to choose one vs another.

You mean the background music? It's not John Denver, but you're right that it does sound like his work a bit. I enjoy his music a lot.

If you watched the video, you'd likely note that the site here is crushed stone and gravel - very easily returned to pre-trenched status after one's stay.

Those screw-together shovels could be used in a pinch and aren't entirely worthless, but if you tried them out, you'd quickly start to feel that you really needed to be gentle with them. I've tested two and both were weak and flimsy. Maybe some company makes a good one, but I've never come across it myself.

Pretty much. It's the Franconia Notch area in the White Mountains NH. A highway runs right through the heart of the valley and it's (unfortunately), very clearly noticeable all along the trails running along the river there. Beautiful area, but MAN the highway noise is unmissable. My boy and I joke that when we stop camping and go home, we get back the peace and quiet of nature back at our house! ;)

Knew it wasNH….looked like whit lake

"People are always going on and on about seams, and leaks that they fail on all ends to address the water flow that goes under your tent when puddles start forming." - I'm going to take a wild guess and say that you didn't watch this video you're commenting on then?

@@PraxisPrepper whether or not I watched this video isn't relevant. The fact is, there are only 2 ways to not have a tent puddling in the rain. I also don't engage with people who leave comments that are designed to change the subject by creating excuses. I made an entire video about what I replied to you about. Go watch it and you will find out what I said is a fact

@@360Investigations I wasn't disagreeing with the issues related to water puddling under a tent. I was letting you know that this video DOES address that question. It actually doesn't discuss seam sealing at all.

@@360Investigations 🤡

​@@360Investigationsit is relevant though, as the video covered it lol

That's something that I definitely should have mentioned in the video. I didn't think to do so because it falls (in my mind) under basic courtesy, but yeah, people definitely should get permission to dig on anyone else's land. I ended up add some text about it to the description at least.

Most of this video is about endeavoring to avoid the tent sitting in that pool of water in the first place. But if one fails, and the tent IS set in a huge puddle, then these steps won't do anything. These steps are preventative - not mitigative.

Guilty as charged. One of the reasons I wanted to start this channel was to practice speaking with less of that crap in there. If it's possible to believe it, I've actually gotten a lot better since I started. Obviously I still have some work to do in improving more.

@@PraxisAdventures Brotha, you don't need to apologize to me. It was a informative video. Thank you.

No worries at all, and I didn't feel as though I was apologizing, just letting you know that I agree with you. I def would like to continue to improve my speaking skills. I'm glad you found the video helpful!

Ridicules a man not reading a script. Denies apology and praises same video instead of doing that in the first place. You have the same amount of conviction as you do manners. I wouldn’t listen or respond to you at all, let alone say anything that could be remotely construed as an apology. A55hat.

Hey don't go too hard on Badmoon, it's a VERY rare and under-appreciated habit for people to snap back into being polite when someone reacts to them being a bit rude. I think the internet makes (most) people forget that they're interacting with other people at the other end of their comments. So I think it's was great that BadMoon didn't stick to his attack approach and corrected to be more civil. The world needs more of that. But that said... I do appreciate you having my back! :)@@dr.2335

The trench in this video wasn't a hypothetical. It actually existed and completely diverted all of the rain during many downpours while I was camping.

Yeah, titles for RU-vid videos generally have to be pretty extreme and superlative in order to get any attention. "Most, all, every, no one" It all has to be extreme for people to click at all. I'm not a fan of it. But I've learned that if I don't do it, videos never get a single click for people to watch.

People pick on this point a lot in the comments of this video. My response is that when camping in a campground that lays down gravel beds for pads, digging into them and then replacing the sand and gravel doesn't make the least lasting impression on the totally dead artificial surface. Also, if camping in an area where the ground IS alive, it's possible to replace the clods after one leaves and they will grow back. Although in a wild backwoods camping situation, it would make the most sense to just choose a location for camping that doesn't need any of this. This is a technique for when forced to be in a specific location that's not safe from water moving across the surface.

I'm not a big fan of saying that people shouldn't do something responsibly and under appropriate conditions because other people might do it irresponsibly and in the wrong conditions. On your tarp inside the tent idea, I'm curious, why do you put it inside the tent as opposed to outside? If something were to be done along those lines, would it not work just as well if you ran the tarp in question under the tent and lapped it up 6" around the outside - tucking that flap up and under the rain fly? Also, is this all you do? What about rain from above with aging rain flies? Do you re-treat your rain fly to keep it functional or also run a tarp overhead?

@@PraxisAdventures All I know is that I see a lot of scars in campsites created by the wrong people doing the right thing. Nails in trees is another pet peeve! Besides that, trenching is unnecessary if you properly waterproof your tent. I have proven it on several occasions. One night the only site in the park was at the foot of a rock wall. I knew that the forecast rain would wash down the rock and through my site all night. When I woke up I had a small stream running under the tent! I was bone dry. The tent floor was wet, but the tarp had protected me. Your suggestion sounds a lot more difficult than putting it inside and up the sidewall a couple inches. Then there are the added benefits. The trap protects the tent floor from abrasion by feet, gear etc., liquids (bug repellant will eat right through it), candle wax etc. When it is time to break camp, I just drag the tarp out along with all the sand, leaves and other dirt that has accumulated. Nothing to sweep up.To your point about the tent fly failing, (I had that happen on a cheaper tent) the water usually wicks down the tent wall to the floor under the tarp. My tent is probably 20 years old. Last Fall I had to recoat a PU tarp, and sprayed the fly of the tent at the same time. I also resealed all the seams at the same time. But I have never had rain come in. Of course I have now jinked myself and will likely get soaked next year! If you want to read the guide who put me onto tarps inside the tent, look up Cliff Jacobson. Thanks for sharing ideas.

OMG, I know what you mean about nails left in trees - ratty work tearing small limbs off trees (presumably for use as kindling... which is dumb because they'd be green and wet). Thank YOU for the thoughtful reply. Most of the time online if someone disagrees with someone's idea the response is all emotional and negative, but you responded in a way that was constructive and advanced the conversation. That's great. I get what you mean about the ease of just laying the tarp on the inside. In my version of tucking it up under the fly in the outside, there's a lot of chance of it slipping back down (and then CATCHING water flowing off the fly). I actually carry a drop cloth for the floor protection benefit that you mentioned. I suppose I felt reluctant to just let water flow under the tent because (for tents that one invested a lot of money into) I feel like I'd want to protect them from the elements as much as possible - hence sacrificing the tarp to the water flow below vs the tent bottom. But I do see what you mean about practicality of setup. Thanks again for the excellent reply! @@arts68

Thx for the suggestion about the Outwell tents. I'll keep an eye out for those next time I'm in the market! :)

Different topic, but yes, same tool. ;)

Could you define "long".

Not rocket, science, but some people like to get a close view on things, see the ground surfaces, etc. Some people who are first time campers probably benefit from the added details and context. It could def be cut down into a shorter video but, given that this channel is my hobby and not my job, I share the info that I think might be helpful to people and if they want to listen that's great. And if they want to tell me that I didn't convey the info fast enough in my free video that I made for people, that's cool too.

Not even in what is essentially a sandbox? Also, did you watch until the end when I showed what the site looked like after I cleaned up? Could you actually see the trace left behind?

I'm not a fan of absolute phrases like, "Do. Not. Trench." Sometimes it's appropriate, and sometimes it's not. If it can be avoided, it's best to do so. But if not, it might be the only alternative to being flooded out.

I guess that dates me. In the late 50s, we trenched everything. Of course, we were still using heavy canvas WW2 surplus floorless tents. Once I got my first good waterproof floor tent, I never trenched again and never missed it!

Hi Richard, if you don't mind my asking, what brand/model of tent have you found that works for you? I've not been camping as long as you have, but in the decades that I have, I've never come across a tent with waterproofing features that last more than a couple of seasons. I'd be curious to know what tent you use if it's been performing for you for a while.@@richardelliott9511

IDK if you watched my dedicated video on it, but yeah, it claimed to be able to do so much, and yet could do so little. I wasn't surprised when the axing (even the light axing I was doing on that soft white pine tree) destroyed it. I would have actually have been surprised if it had NOT damaged the tool. A lot of this survival stuff is junk that the companies are hoping people never use, so never discover it was crap.

.. Tactical shovels are just that a multi piece shovel ,, the sharpened edge can be use to sharpen a stick to be used as a stake , but not meant to be used to drop trees .... even the RU-vidrs that make video's chopping with a shovel ,, is not a large tree ( usually about 1"-3") ,, so would be green and soft ,( generally planned to be a part of a shelter build).. and not a tactical multi piece shovel , but solid handle ..

Different makers of these multi-piece shovels make different claims about them. I tested one out that was adamant that it could be used as an axe. I was extremely suspicious of how well it'd work. I tried it out on the softest possible wood I had around (white pine), and chopped at a very small limb and the shovel bent after a couple of very light strikes. Another light strike and it would have broken in half. For you and for me, we have a clear sense of what those sorts of tactical shovels can be used for and what they cannot. But for many people, they presume the manufactures have tested the products at least somewhat to be sure they can hold up to at least light usage - this is not always the case.@@rockytopwrangler2069

This video is about keeping dry in a tent.

If people only do that step, they might very well still get totally swamped from below. I guess I talked for the time you watched only about the tarp above, but I also discussed other steps to take that actually do the job. The tarp above alone is not at all the end of the story. It does take 13 minutes to hear about those other steps though. So it might not be worth it. Up to the individual as to the cost/benefit of taking the 13 mins.

The man clearly went on to explain reasons for over-tarps beyond the obvious. Went into trenching in detail, including preemptive surveying of the ground for telltale signs, how to consider your location due to these and how to appropriately employ that knowledge. Then he explained under-tarps and was kind and wise enough to warn of the incorrect way of applying this method and the reasons why. Also very valid insight upon tool use, worth and specification. That’s what you stood to learn if you had the sense or humility. Have fun paddling, dunce.

Thanks for providing the reality check for the short attention span commenter. Unfortunately, AnimusZen likely didn't get past the part of your comment that says, "The man clearly went..." I think he probably lost the ability to focus on what you were writing about there. ;) I'm glad you enjoyed the video I made and stuck around long enough to digest the key points! :) @@dr.2335

@@PraxisAdventures if they couldn’t pass the first line of a reality check, reality clearly isn’t their strong suit. Much of what I write in these instances is for anyone but the person it’s replying to- and for myself to vent and teach those with limited means how scathing indictment is done properly. I subbed when you started reading the ground. You’re attentive, detailed and well versed. Keep it up my man.

I love how you wrote that you try to demonstrate "how scathing indictment is done properly". I tend to start off very friendly and open to letting people snap back to civility in the comment, but on occasion when someone is severely impolite, not to myself, but to someone else in the comments, I too will often attempt to demo how scathing indictment is done properly. :)@@dr.2335

Thanks for that insight. You're right that the tarp needs to be replaced now and then. It's cheaper to do that than to replace the entire tent fly, so I've been doing that. I like your approach though. I'm going to look into that solution. Thanks for sharing that!

@@PraxisAdventures that Flex Seal comes in clear black and white and it comes in little spray cans but they don't have enough in them to do much of anything but they do have them in court gallon and I believe pint size cans and then you just brush them on. High first tried it on a military poncho I bought. Usually when you buy them through Surplus the rubber in the head part is no good it was all peeling off and smelled funky and when I got it wet to try to wash it off it started peeling off and just left the fabric. Basically making the whole thing useless. But I immediately thought of the clear Flex Seal, and now it looks like it was brand new on the head part the material was green and the clear really brought it out and I've never had any problem with it or the second one I bought and had to do the exact same thing because the kids took off with my first one

Good info. Do you have enough time using Flex Seal where you know how long it lasts before it breaks down itself? I find that flexible polymers tend to have a shorter use-life than more rigid ones.@@jamesbowen5573

@@PraxisAdventures I know on the stuff I've used it on I never had problems the rain ponchos were what I have used it on the longest. I've never retreated them or anything. I'm pretty sure stuff like sunlight might break it down and you usually don't wear your Poncho in the sun all the time you might use it as a tarp here and there but I don't use it as my primary tarp so I really haven't noticed any degradation. I do know when you put it on Blue Jeans, you do need to touch up the knees every now and then if you do a lot of crawling around. You definitely want to get it absorbed all the way into the fabric. I tried to make a set looks like the kind some guys wear weather around the bootleg up about a foot and on the knees and on the very butt. I'm sure there's wear and tear on the butt but the knees are the only ones I've had to reapply the stuff to. And I don't know if it was leaking or not I just not look like crap. The Cheapo tents I have put it on my kids use most of the time and they don't purposely go out in the rain but they haven't had any trouble when they do I guess it's been 2 years I think it's only been rained on a couple of times the last one was about a month ago and nothing got wet. My kids are not particularly rough on those things. One of the tenths is a Coleman popup. All you do is throw the disc in the air and it lands set up. It was in a bad storm at pow wow and the kids came home but left the tent and when we got it the next day some of those graphite poles on the bottom were shattered so I cut it open and taped it up and sewed it and then treated it with Flex Seal . I guess that was a couple of years ago. It still works pretty good my nephew's borrowed it a couple of months ago and it stormed on them out of nowhere and it stayed dry. I'm not a representative of the company nor have I seen any of the studies of the breakdown I guess it would make common sense that every few years you might want to touch it up if it looks different, but I personally have not had any problem with it. I also made a miniature tarp out of bandanas I sewed together and I treated it. I use that as a pack cover at night I don't really use it during the daytime for anything. I've treated a couple of flags with it. But of course I have no idea if their waterproof or not it keeps them from getting dirty that's for sure. I like to carry a small bandana size American flag that I attached to a string and in Oklahoma state flag and they don't tread on me flag but I wouldn't hang them around liberals they like to steal them and burn them they stole every Trump flag I put on the back of my Jeep they weren't big ones but still it seems to enrage those people. I never treated the Trump Flags. Couldn't keep them long enough to be honest

Wow! A HUGE thank you for that reply. I'm definitely going to try out Flex Seal now. That sounds like a very useful tool to have in one's (figurative) back pocket. I really appreciate your taking to time to share all that. I'm disappointed to hear that you've had so many issues with people who think they're on a different political "team" stealing your flags. That's super lame. People can be so childish - and I mean that for many people on all sides of those political division lines. It's lame to have to deal with them though. Most people like that don't even understand what political values their "side" even represents... and that goes for the leaders of their parties too. Years ago, my values were things like anti-violence, pro-body autonomy, pro-scientific rational thinking. Back them during the early days of the 2nd Iraq war, those values suggested to me that I was a liberal. So I (foolishly) adopted that label. Fast forward a couple of decades later and now liberals seem to be all pro-war, pro-forcing people to get medical interventions whether they want them or not, and (while they say otherwise) they're definitely the anti-scientific party... though to be fair both parties might merit that mantle. And now with liberals seeming to largely be pro-giving little kids sex-change surgeries... Well if being a liberal means all that, I guess I'm definitely not one of those. Again, to be fair, I presume that give it all another couple of decades and the parties will switch again and a whole new set of people will be the ones rampaging around set on "crazy". For that reasons, I've abandoned the idea of political labels and now I just talk about the values I have. The funny thing doing that is that for most people, no matter what they call themselves, we all pretty much all share the same values. The labels just try to trick us into seeing each other as enemies. Maybe that's so we keep quarreling with each other instead of working together against the people in charge who pull the strings? Anyhow... all this because we were chatting about Flex Seal! Thanks for the dialog. I'll def try that product out! Have a good one!@@jamesbowen5573

Can you recommend a good one? I've been through a lot of highly respected brands of tents over the years and I've never found one that has rain-proofing that lasts more than a few seasons.

Yeah a lot of this stuff is too heavy for a hiker to carry on their back. I was aiming this video at campers (hence the title).

I take it you skipped to the end of the video and didn't watch anything but the part where I show how to use the tool, and also skipped the part when I said that people could also use a rock or stick or even a lawn chair for the same purpose? And also skipped the part when I talked about how many junky tools are out there and showed some that I've tested that were crap? I'm selling tarps at the beginning of the video, and selling common sense in the middle of the video... and I think go back to selling tarps again at the end too.

I like comments like this because they're examples perfect internet trash conversation - pure and unadulterated. The comment is uninformed, narrow minded, unconstructive, AND mean spirited all at once. Well done. I presume you know how to talk to people in real life. You might try to extend some of that skill set to online discussions as well. It might surprise you that it's possible to actually converse constructively with people online as well. Not doing so, you're missing out.

Because I was lucky to survive that trip myself?? Honestly, I don't know how I've made it through so many camping trips with some random tent and (oh my God in heaven!!!!) clothespins on a line or two. I'm honestly lucky to be alive today. I get what you're saying. There are reasons for other tents, and it's best practice to not be tossing crap on your lines, but I think you might be over-emphasizing the criticality of those things. People can do just fine breaking those "rules".

Hi Pascal. Nice to meet you. :) Is that an okay way to start a conversation with you? Or would you prefer I start with an insult? I'm not sure what sort of interpersonal style you prefer in your real life.