How to test fuel injectors with a labscope - Chrysler 3.0

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This overhead cam 3.0 Mitsubishi engine was used in many different Chrysler platforms. (Plymouth Acclaim, Chrysler LeBaron, Dodge Caravan, Chrysler Town and Country etc). The vehicle being tested is a 1990 Chrysler's TC by Maserati, which is really just a LeBaron with different tags on it.
Engine Performance Diagnostics chapter 18 pages 9-12
Symptoms
- check engine light (code 26)
- no driveability complaints
Fix
- replaced engine computer and all 6 fuel injectors
Tests shown
- how to scope test a pair fired injection system
- fuel injector current and voltage waveforms
- why amperage was so much higher during initial start up
- how to identify main computer powers and grounds on a wiring diagram
- how to test computer powers and grounds
- how to perform a proper ground to ground voltage drop test
- how to determine if you voltmeter has a good connection
Tools used
- scan tool
- Picoscope (labscope)
- digital multimeter
- inductive low amp probe
- back-probing tools
Playlist
- (Chapters 17, 18 and 19) Fuel Injector Testing
• (Chapters 17, 18 and 1...
Related videos
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- Lexus fuel injector failing when hot, misfire (fixed with snow)
• Lexus fuel injector fa...
- Rough idle, false MAP codes intermittent no start (shorted injectors) GM • Rough idle, MAP code 3...
For more information on this topic, I have written a “field manual” called Engine Performance Diagnostics which is available at www.scannerdanner.com as an eBook or paper book.
Want even more diagnostic training? Whether you are a DIY trying to fix your own car, someone looking to become an auto technician, or a current auto technician that wants to get more into diagnostics, subscribe to ScannerDanner Premium www.scannerdanner.com/join-sc... There is a 14 day free trial.
On ScannerDanner Premium I will bring you right into my classroom at Rosedale Technical College. You will find page for page lectures taken right from my book as well as exclusive classroom type case studies. What is so special about these classroom case studies? I pull live problem vehicles directly into my classroom and we troubleshoot them in real time, using and applying the theory and testing procedures we learn during the classroom lectures. There is no better on-line training of how to troubleshoot automotive electrical and electronics systems anywhere!
Disclaimer:
Due to factors beyond the control of ScannerDanner LLC, it cannot guarantee against unauthorized modifications of this information, or improper use of this information. ScannerDanner LLC assumes no liability for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. ScannerDanner LLC recommends safe practices when working with power tools, automotive lifts, lifting tools, jack stands, electrical equipment, blunt instruments, chemicals, lubricants, or any other tools or equipment seen or implied in this video. Due to factors beyond the control of ScannerDanner LLC, no information contained in this video shall create any express or implied warranty or guarantee of any particular result. Any injury, damage or loss that may result from improper use of these tools, equipment, or the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility of the user and not ScannerDanner LLC.

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13 янв 2012

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Комментарии : 82

@coycarlson4979 2 года назад

Paul - As always , super instruction. When you teach , one quickly realizes your vast experience - the way you just walk around the pico scope information is impressive -that is -your ability to analyze all the information the pico scope gives you 👍👍👍✌️

@ScannerDanner 2 года назад

Thank you so much!

@ScannerDanner 12 лет назад

@ChrisWilson5006 Using a scope for voltage tests, you don't even need to shake the lead sometimes. The scope shows a lot of hash in the mv line when there is no connection. I didn't edit this one at all. I thought that watching me struggle with the t-pins and making sure I had a good connections was important to show. I know it made it a lot longer but it is great that you still liked it. Thanks Chris

@dreamer2355 12 лет назад

Another great video. You are an excellent teacher and your school is blessed to have you.

@TRcustomengineering 12 лет назад

Another great Video Paul. The pico scope is indeed awesome. Thanks again.

@ChrisWilson5006 12 лет назад

Another great presentation of real world fault tracing, I am enjoying and learning tips and tricks with each and every one. Shake the multimeter lead to be sure you are getting a true millivolt reading? Never heard of that one before, what a useful tip! Maserati indeed... Badge engineering gone berserk :) Thank you Paul, awesome series.

@attauto 12 лет назад

Great to see diagnostics (and teaching) done so well. Tom (Automotive Author and Instructor UK)

@GM-vk8jw 2 года назад

Excellent tip on shaking the the test leads. Ideally all continuity tests should be under load as you have explained so many times. It really niggles me when I see others using the ohms option on their DVM

@KBLIZZ333 3 года назад

Hahaha I remember doing a New York state inspection on one of those (in green) many years ago.I had to take it for a quick road test, so now I can legally tell people that I've driven a Maserati. Also, I just noticed this video's 8 yrs old. I don't know how I haven't seen this until today. October 2020. Thanks for the another great video !!!

@ScannerDanner 12 лет назад

You are correct, although, I wouldn't call it noise, it would be current flow to the FP, and ignition coil that would interfere the most.

@ScannerDanner 12 лет назад

thank u very much im glad u liked the tip. i use it all the time

@pico3423 12 лет назад

very nice video, and your a great teacher thats thurough

@ScannerDanner 12 лет назад

@attauto Thank you! That comment means a lot to me coming from a fellow instructor. Paul

@user-tt4ex2ju7g 3 года назад

thank you for explain about this problem.

@SS-U23 10 месяцев назад

Awesome explanation and great teaching at all times Thank you👍x 1,000

@ScannerDanner 12 лет назад

@fivefortyeye540i Yes, I didn't think I would have any info. on it. Good thing it was a Chrysler platform and I was able to use a 1990 Lebaron diagram. I won't work on anything without a good diagram. I used too when I was younger but I refuse to now. But I do take some of the more difficult ones at school sometimes because there is less pressure and I have way more time, plus my students like it. But when I am working in the field time is money and I am more picky.

@ScannerDanner 12 лет назад

Sorry if my response sounded harsh. I meant no disrespect. I agree with your statements and am aware that 1000ma = 1a. I just want to be clear on the amp probe. It converts magnetic field strength to a voltage signal. So it can be used on any voltmeter or scope. The two settings on it are as follows: 100mv = 1 amp on the 20 amp setting 10mv = 1 amp on the 40 or 60 amp setting (depends on the tool)

@ScannerDanner 12 лет назад

@westin1985 I would say I see my share and yes it can cause intermittent problems and most of the time I see it on 12v power feed circuits not low voltage non current carrying sensor input circuits.

@ScannerDanner 11 лет назад

Watch my 3 part no start video on a Jeep. I am showing some other checks that you need to do mainly on the 5 volt reference circuit

@ScannerDanner 12 лет назад

@victor35ma No misfire for this one either, and with all of the injectors firing as they should and good feed voltage to injectors, good current ramps and good computer powers and grounds we are going with a new computer on this one. I'll keep you guys posted after we find one for this oddball car. "fast and easy" lol when I read that to my wife, she said that's what I should call you...I didn't think it was very funny

@nickayivor8432 2 года назад

Using the Oscilloscope every Techs should have in their tools kits. The future is Oscilloscope. KNOWLEDGEABLE Sir ScannerDanner Tutorial great👍 👌 👏 Video brilliant thank you so much for sharing what you know with us Sir ScannerDanner From Nick Ayivor from London England UK 🇬🇧

@ScannerDanner 2 года назад

I put the link in the description for this full length video my friend.

@SuperCarfix 12 лет назад

Nice I like the wiggling the meter wire for the ground testing.BTW where can I get a few of those Maserati Emblems for my Lebanon:):)

@CHIBA280CRV 10 лет назад

Cool! Did you re-test after the new computer install? And if not yet are you going to show the results? Thanks for the video.

@ScannerDanner 12 лет назад

@westin1985 No I do not, there is a lot of concern with my type of testing. If you are not careful you could fry a PCM driver. Also there is a safety issue with high voltage circuits, though not on a conventional 12v system. Some manufactures are completely against backprobing, however as an aftermarket tech. I have no choice. I also use wire piercing tools when necessary another complete no no to some.

@westin1985 12 лет назад

Do you have any videos where you go over the techniques to probe wiring, and connectors? I see you use a regular T pin to probe the connectors. I have seen where GM has their own probing kit but I have never physically seen it or used it.

@felplayvina 12 лет назад

Mr Paul about the diagram you used for the Maserati what did you used instead? last Friday I was looking for 95 gmc suburban diagram at Michell 1 and not found it can you give me a tip when this problem happen again.

@ScannerDanner 12 лет назад

Unfortunately I cannot answer that. The garage took the car back from us as they were having a very difficult time locating the correct engine computer.

@victor35ma 12 лет назад

Hi, thanks again for your "cátedras". . I came across this issue long time ago if I can remember well. It was a Lebaron CA. The engine never exhibits a misfire at all. Did yours? We did get the same codes. I remember boss at that time change two relays that after changing fuel injectors wiring harness etc. you know we call you “fast and easy” up here at the shop. Thanks again.

@halleffect1 11 лет назад

"it's a freaking lebaron" that's about as close as you'll get to hearing Paul curse :)

@ScannerDanner 12 лет назад

@pico3423 thank you

@fivefortyeye540i 12 лет назад

Scannerdanner I'm curious when u first herd it was mazirati how come u wher reluctant to check it out,is it because getting data on it would have been difficult? Chrysler/ mazarati that a new to me.. It reminds me of my dodge /Lexus I owned. what a beater..

@ScannerDanner 12 лет назад

Sorry but that is the conversion on a 20 amp setting on this amp probe. Every 100 milliVOLTS = 1 amp. This amp probe produces a voltage output Watch it again, I did say it wrong initially

@bwcordes 11 лет назад

The TC actually shares no body panels or interior components with the Lebaron. Chrysler did steal the guy who designed the TC to design the lebaron though. The DOHC cars with the Cosworth head and turbo were incredible.

@beansandgravy1 11 лет назад

if the scope patterns are good and the power and grounds are good why would the pcm set trouble codes? you would need to really to have a fair bit of experience to make that call i would think considering the cost of a pcm good video paul even though i find it quite hard to wrap my mind round all the technicallitys

@Pissed0ffKrzysztof 12 лет назад

a 1990 Chrysler labeled as a Maserati with Mitsubishi Engine and Drive-train, and possible Bosch electrical system. I like how you checked the harness for voltage drops and changes but a dirty connection on the harness to the computer is common also bad grounds are very common everywhere else, this car could have had a recent powerwash under the hood with all the dirt washing into all your connection, how about a faulty connection on one injector and a bad injector on the opposite of the bank?

@antiekeradio 12 лет назад

great measuring tip there, the wire shake. I'm sure I will benefit from this in the future!!! been tinkering with electronics, and cars, and also car electronics :-) for a few years but never noticed this effect so clearly. Usually I just looked out for numbers fluctuating on their own to know a non-connected lead, but this is much more effective.

@richardpalmer999 Год назад

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@MrJgonzalez2 11 лет назад

Paul, I have a '92 Dynasty 3.0 and my power ground voltage is 230 mV engine running, is that high?

@disneyjoe7 8 лет назад

Why not try to reseat / unplug / replug ECM? ECM being outside feel connections could be the problem.

@brettless80 12 лет назад

Did the computer replacement rectify this problem.Cheers

@westin1985 12 лет назад

How often are corroded or oxidized terminals a problem? What types of cars are bad for this electrical problem? I assume that oxidized terminals can cause intermittent problems. It works one day and then quits working the next day. I guess the terminal oxidation causes more problems on low signal voltages than higher voltage circuits.

@dennisthomas4766 2 года назад

I have had a few lebarons and if injector driver codes come up replace computer. whether engine misfires or not

@ryankirk8211 3 года назад

hellow ryan from ny here im new to Scoping i got a hantek usb one i was wonder if my hantek cc65 would work for Compression test and if so how would i set up my scope to get a scale from the + battery Terminal wire ??? thank u

@jesseruiz2337 6 лет назад

When u are doing the power n ground test on the pcm the other meter wire is it tpined to the injector power n ground or just a good power n ground?

@ScannerDanner 6 лет назад

Can you give me a time frame in the video please? When I am measuring injectors or computer powers and grounds, one of my DMM leads is connected to battery negative.

@georgedawsonjr450 5 лет назад

What amp clamp are you using in this video? Is it the same one you used for relative compensation.

@ScannerDanner 5 лет назад

yes, it is an inductive low amp probe. You can find one listed here www.amazon.com/shop/scannerdanner Thank you!

@PrintEngineering Год назад

@20:03 you are showing engineering flowcharts, I desperately need these! I am working on a 90 LeBaron 3.0. I am getting no injector pulse from the ECM. There is fuel sync pick-up signal from the distributor. Ignition pick-up from the distributor does give spark throughout the rpm range. Upon cranking the fuel injectors do pulse briefly as seen in your video, but no further injector pulses occur. When I rotate the distributor the fuel injectors do pulse, but that is based off of the ignition pickup in the distributor and once the engine is running the fuel sync signal from the distributor is supposed to instruct the ECM on fuel timing but it is not. I am getting signal at pin 44 of the ECM from the fuel sync pick-up. The ECM just doesn't seem to do anything with the signal. I've tested all of the wiring from the ecm to the injectors and there's no opens or shorts. Because I'm getting injector pulse during cranking I don't believe the problem is on the injector side, but the ohms of the fuel injectors is right around 2.5 ohms each and I've seen some sources claiming they should be at 10-16ohms. I got some remanufactured injectors and they, too, were 2.5ohms. I am leaning towards replacing the ecm but I want to be sure since I've already replaced the distributor and I don't want to throw unnecessary parts at it. I don't know where to find the engineering flowcharts but I could really use them!

@ScannerDanner Год назад

eautorepair.adtrk.biz/?a=10817&c=24&p=r&s1= here you go

@Mahigeer1 11 лет назад

Is it my computer, or there is bad audio problem with this recording?

@potatojz38 5 лет назад

Why does it say in the description you also changed all 6 injectors? Did you diagnosis a different issue later or was that a typo?

@ScannerDanner 5 лет назад

To be honest, I don't remember! I'm sorry. It's been a long time

@brunoc9376 4 года назад

On that multimeter test, did you connect your negative lead to battery ground?

@ScannerDanner 4 года назад

yes, I'm sure I did if I was showing a voltage reading

@brunoc9376 4 года назад

ScannerDanner thank you. I’ve been binge watching your videos and I plan to buy your book after I get my job back. (Covid 19 job loss)

@ScannerDanner 4 года назад

@@brunoc9376 awesome, thank you so much, hope to hear more from you

@LynxStarAuto 10 лет назад

Oh of the many cluster-fs Chrysler put out in the 90s...

@ScannerDanner 11 лет назад

:-)

@eli310 6 лет назад

why did u have to change all 6 injectors if it had good voltage nd good current flow with out any short

@ScannerDanner 6 лет назад

I don't remember but I think in this video I proved the injectors were not the problem

@eli310 6 лет назад

i check on toyota injectors on the control im getting spike over 120 volts with good injectors do they usually peak around does numbers

@ScannerDanner 6 лет назад

Yep, unless there is a zener diode dumping off the spike

@Z14kt12timandjes1 3 года назад

Do you have a video on your premium channel that you can point me to where I can learn about a bad fuel injector current wave form? I've got two fuel injectors on a 1996 Ford 4.6L with a really spiky and erratic current wave form and I'm not sure what it means. The car has intermittent misfires.

@ScannerDanner 3 года назад

yes absolutely! In my chapters 17 and 18 playlists www.scannerdanner.com/scannerdanner-premium-chapters/chapter-17-fuel-injector-driver-designs.html www.scannerdanner.com/scannerdanner-premium-chapters/chapter-18-fuel-injector-testing.html You can also post your pictures to my forum and we can talk about it there. The forum is free to join. Thank you!

@Z14kt12timandjes1 3 года назад

@@ScannerDanner Excellent. Thanks so much. I will rereview those chapters. I did post the wave forms on the forum under the lab scope section. Hope you and your family have a great long weekend.

@ScannerDanner 3 года назад

Post the link to the forum thread here! Thanks!

@Z14kt12timandjes1 3 года назад

@@ScannerDanner www.scannerdanner.com/forum/lab-scope-discussion/8102-strange-current-waveform.html#49772

@m.a.4795 3 года назад

Why don't you check the grounds with ohmmeter to battery negative instead of voltmeter?

@ScannerDanner 3 года назад

Great question! This would be why ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-McsNOJvd0ao.html

@brakedd 11 лет назад

Maserati Dodge Shadow! hahahah

@DependableAutoTruck 3 года назад

what is the purpose in firing 2 injectors at one time i would think waste of fuel

@ScannerDanner 3 года назад

Whether it is group fired, pair fired or bank fired, the ECM is calibrated to delivery the exact amount of fuel needed and it is the intake valve that controls when it gets into the cylinders, so nothing is wasted

@DependableAutoTruck 3 года назад

@@ScannerDanner got it now thanks

@ScannerDanner 3 года назад

@@DependableAutoTruck no problem!