@Hard Is Easy To remember the way to tie: start hard, finish easy! (Start hard by pushing the rope to the side and finish easy by going through the big hole :) )
I prefer 'start small, finish big' - it's more accurate to what you're actually doing, and a more natural phrase that won't get confused ("start easy, finish hard" makes a lot more sense than "start big, finish small").
@@Phazaar I get what you're saying, but start hard finish easy is something a lot of us heard as kids, guessing op did too, as in study hard now and you won't have to struggle as an adult
Also someone who actually puts the camera in the perspective of our eyes when tying a knot. All other videos puts the camera in the perspective of watching someone else tying a knot.
Yea it's a long video teaching you how to save time :D But this video is a part of coming Belay Masterclass and little details make a huge difference in critical situations. So climb safe and smile more ;)
I think you misunderstood the reason why some people tie a 'safety knot'. You're right it doesn't add any strength to the knot but that is not why it is tied. It is tied simply to ensure that your tail is long enough. No need to guess the length - if you can tie the safety knot then you have enough. Also it should be cinched down neatly on top of the figure of 8, not like you show in the video. It never gets in the way like this.
Alex Webber if you have enough rope to tie off your Fig. Of Eight with a stopper you have too much tail. A hand span is sufficient. It also shows lack of mastery IMHO if you are not consistent.
@@beyondthepale2023 I do it because most gyms in the UK require it. I'm merely pointing out the correct logic and form, which is different to what is shown in this video.
So, if it is long, it’s wrong- the video that is... Not so, I found this video cleverly edited, a great casually thorough verbal presentation, and perfectly presented. Whomever did the video work and edited it - WELL DONE! I’m going to use this for tying in to my bosun’s chair for going up the mast! It’ll take a little practice though.
I have 30 years climbing experience and degree in math, so I think about knots and symmetry a lot. But I never noticed that one symmetry is easier to untie than the other, and I've never heard any other climber note this either. Did you figure this out on your own? Kudos!
I use a little tip to help my students to remember how to start and finish the follow through part. I say that they need to start small and finish big (referring to the sizes of the holes formed by the rope in one or the other side of the strand you need to follow. Little complicate to explain in a writing form but very easy to see and understand.
Although my kids learned the figure 8 at the gym, I've shown them this vid then walked them through it and it's become the way they always tie in now. It just 'clicked' for them. Mahalo and Aloha.
6:20 "they type of person that can miss a hole" - Which under cold, wet, stressful , sleep-deprived, time-sensitive etc. conditions it is very possible to do. Human factors are often discounted as being down to low competency, and this attitude has and still does cost lives.
Is there an episode 6? This "belay master class" was very informative and well done. I feel I know way more about climbing gear now. However there was no content that discussed actual belay technique... Nothing about ATCs, grigi technique, Munter hitches etc.
I always have a sling on the left so the rope goes on the right side of the belay loop. Thanks though I will try that out soon. Oh and if the knot holds more than 10kN, don’t worry about which one is stronger. Your body will literally break apart if there is an impact of 10 or more kN on your body ;)
When I had saw that the video is 13 minutes long I thought it's impossible to make the interesting and useful video 'how to tie a figure 8 knot' that is so long. I was wrong. Good job. Now I know good video for newbies (and not only newbies) that teach to tie figure 8 with many useful details.
Man what a great vid! I’ve climbed for 15 years and this is the best explanation I’ve seen and heard. Same with your previous vid to untie it and where the load is placed. I’m definitely taking this info for when teaching new friends the figure 8, thanks!! Sub’d for sure!
Two minutes in and already one of the best instructional videos I've seen. Love the subtle humor, and way to tell em that it don't need no back up! However, I'd just like to add that the orientation of the initial part of the knot, where you say "it should be on the left not the right" around 7:30, doesn't actually matter, you can achieve a clean figure 8 either way, you just have to follow it the correct way.
The orientation in the video makes it easier imo since it's easier to put the second loops on top of the existing loops. If you tie the knot with the line going to the left, putting the second loops on top, that's how you end up with the loop of the load end of the rope being on top rather than below (and thus a rope that's difficult to open after a hard fall) Although TBH in my limited experience of top roping this has never happened anyway - the only gotcha we had with things being difficult to open was if we screwed the locking carabiner for the belay device snug and then it tightens more when you load it. My instructor taught the way being shown in this video - with the exception that he didn't show the fancy twisting at the beginning - but did have the line going to the right. He also gave us a cut off of rope to practise. When I practised at home I did it the other way but added the twist (which I'd seen others do) Obviously both knots are safe but having watched this video I've swapped now.
You are one of the best instructors out there. step by step and explaining WHY certain thing should be the way they are makes it "stick" so much better. Excellent work, and thank you very much.
The mnemonic I was taught to remember how to tie a clean knot like the one in this video is "outside, outside, in." You Push the working end through on the outside of the line you are tracing the first 2 times, then finish on the inside. I was also taught an easier way to tighten the knot. Hold both strands beneath the knot with one hand. Pull each strand above the know individually. Then swap: hold both strands above with one hand while pulling the two below individually. Hope this is helpful.
Thank you buddy for a great video! Note that the control knot in the figure eight is required on slippery climbing ropes (for example, Mammut Serenity dry 8.7). I have repeatedly lost a strand of the eight, if i do not impose a control knot on long mountaineering ascents. I recommend checking the knot periodically on long climbing routes.
On long climbs the checking is more important and easier without the control knot. On a brand new 'slippery' rope even on short climbs I'd use the extra stopper.
It's worth noting which way you do the initial twists affects which way you should hold the figure 8 (line going to right or left) to get the load loop being the one that doesn't cause difficulty undoing the knot. If you follow this video exactly he's right to say hold the figure 8 so the line goes to the right. But if your initial twists are clockwise you should hold the figure 8 the other way up.
I was wondering about this. I’m pretty new to climbing but the way I was taught and have been doing it has the rope going to the left after putting it through the leg and waist loops. The technique seems the same though. Is there a difference? Is one more correct?
@@juliannediaz9845 basically there are 2 ways to tie the 8 before you even get to rethreading. This should be addressed in the vid. They are equal though, just a mirror image.
At 3:40 you say, don't let drop the loop, because you loose the measurement. This I cannot confirm. I marked my rope with a tape and tested it multiple times. When I drop the knot, then the loop always remains at the same position, the measurement is not lost. So it works in either ways, holding the loop as shown in the video or let it drop (which I am used to for 15 years). I tested it only with my new 9.5 mm rope, perhaps one should do the same test with other ropes in order to confirm my results.
What kind of bowline are you using Hanna? In the other videos I saw that it was some kind of double bowline and I'm very interested to see what knot it is exactly.
Great job at explaining the motions and reasons for each motion👍🏻 I’ve been doing this for years and didn’t know it is an uncommon way of tying the eight. I just decided one day to start using a measurement(typically I pull to my shoulder socket) and knew that to get a figure eight you twist one more time then a overhand. And found it easier to teach clients then the stupid “snowman” story thing.
The other day I had a 10yr old very excitedly tell me the figure 8 is called a "guy knot" 😂 because he was taught the "noose around the guy's head and stab him in the eye" method
@@jacklyncheung4993ya we were told to wrap his scarf and poke him in the eye. Whoever told that kid the snowman stories got him to remember it and have that translate to righting the knot right which is great.. but I like the scarf instead of the noose since it’s less dark and doesn’t remind me or anyone else effected someone who died from one. But ya the snowman stories work for a lot of people but having known and seen many other people either not “get” the story and how it relates to what you do, or not remember the story in a way that helps them tie it right. I decided to go with the “measure,twist,twist put rope through loop and pull” method I had taught myself (I was one of those people that couldn’t understand the snowman story) The snow man method is great but also good to have other ways to explain something incase it doesn’t click for someone.
Thank you! My son is an adaptive climber. I just took a belay class at his gym and had a challenging time with the fig 8. Your video smoothed me out and I am now feeling more confident about belaying him.
At 8:20, I was told in my gym that another danger of having too big a loop is that you can get accidentally get your knuckle through and take a fall and severely hurt your hand.
Excellent video, been tying and teaching this way for years, even down to the slight press of the eight when starting the rethread, after stumbling on the same knot loading based on strand position a while back, as well as having accidentally clipped a loose tail and a knotted tail while being in close to a bolt. A couple additional notes is bringing the knot in close, close enough to tension the tie in points, will reduce how much the knot rotates around the tie in points during a fall. This has the benefit of decreasing the likelihood of being flipped as well as decreasing wear on the harness by distributing this evenly between the tie in points and not grinding the nylon rope against nylon loops. As to tying in top down or bottom up, easier to see you are hitting both loops from the bottom, thus the idea of top down “incase you miss one” being likelier to cause the miss. Further, because the leg loops are likelier to slide upward than the waist belt is to slide downward, this means the knot will generally be better centered and therefore distribute the load better. Using the top down method, you have to maintain tension for a couple passes of the knot to position the knot. These are both utterly minimal benefits, but if all other matters are equal then learn the minimally better one.
Thanks a lot. Perfect instruction, with a nice pace to follow along easily. Also, love the way you explain all the variations and why to do or not to do.
"From Tip to Nip" Measuring out the rope length, I always say, "From Tip to Nip." Stretching the rope from my outstretched arm's finger tip to my opposite nipple. Perfect length, every time.
Great vid I was told my a friend that the main reason for safety knot was for trad climbing where we can clip in to the rope loop at the belay ect and it stops the 8 unrolling
Yea it kiiiiiinda makes sense, but there are better ways than clipping into rope loop... And I'm gonna focus more on Sport Climbing practices anyway - don't want to go to wide...
Great video Ben. Passing the rope bottom->up also helps seeing the loops easier and prevent anyone from missing it. I learned and make it eversince exactly the same way, 100% perfect knots everytime, practice until you can do it blind folded and remember to always partner check!
I tie it the same way except for the first part; on the second part I m never quite sure if the load line goes up or down, just that the nod is symmetric. I'll definitively apply that! Great job Ben, as a Physics graduate I ve always loved your science videos, keep them up! :))
I've always tied my knot exactly in this way without noticing it was the best way. Ps. When I first started lead climbing I tied my knot from the bottom up but somehow I missed the bottom loop and when I took a fall it really hurt my back.
Your belayer is also to blame - part of his/her job is to check your setup thoroughly, before you blast off. This is equally as important as catching a fall, but often skipped over. Sorry if I'm stating the obvious, but if one person reads this, and starts properly checking their partner as a no compromise part of the process, maybe a future injury (or worse) is prevented. : ) Oh, and top, top work on your vids Hard is Easy!
Really nice lesson. If not climbed for a decade but all the instruction videos didn't seem to match what little i could remember. Finally found the right video and the right way before my refresher course. Thanks
So talking to some climbing friends, they disagree with you on the safety loop. And I have to agree with them. The double fishermen doesn't add any strength, but it would prevent the double figure 8 from coming undone. Your friend HowNOTtoHIGHLINE's video on the strength actually is a great example ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Re5ZZjc41kQ.html If you accidentally cross load the loop like you say, a safety loop would prevent that.
This is amazingly eye opening! You've just explained (this and the last one) why my knot never tightens but my climbing partners does, despite me being significantly heavier than him. Also highlighted a couple of things with the way I teach people. I do teach the top down through the harness method, because, as you say, it's safer if you do miss a hole, and mistakes happen. I'm also going to "borrow" your method of teaching the rethreading, since I'm normally guilty of the "just follow the knot" method. The muscle memory / blindfold thing is gold. I made a friend of mine do this years back because she'd always be talking to people while tying in, so I made sure she could do it safely without thinking. Be interested to see your belaying videos, but also any plans to do a video on how to rethread the rope at the top of a climb? I know several methods and would love to see your take on it.
Thanks for this, btw I was really excited to try my gym project using the well-tied fig-8 method you showed in your last video but it was still hard to untie! 😭 Maybe I am just trying too hard on my projects and not leaving enough strength to untie my knots?? My rope is not new but not that old and otherwise handles smoothly. I'm also not a fat bastard. Maybe there is a technique to untying the knot that I don't know about. For now, I will go back to the bowline...
Yea, maybe your belayer just gives you hard catches all the time? And also good point about untie technique I need to put that to some of my future videos ;) Thanks!
@@HardIsEasy I don't think it's a hard catch issue. The instance I'm thinking of was a couple of short and soft falls. Maybe I am just too used to the ease of the bowline but it took about 1 min to untie the fig-8.
The explanation for bottom up tying is ridiculous. The whole idea of teaching technical stuff in climbing is to make it fail safe. That’s why you don’t teach easy way. You teach safe way lol. Anyway, good video
My American climbing friends have had a big discussion last night (after watching your video tutorial about how to tie a figure 8 knot that will be easy to untie after a hard fall). The biggest question that arose at that time was: "Where was this guy with his video when our instructors were teaching us how to tie up figure 8 knot and why no-one else came with this solution before ???? :-) ;-) ;-)
Very good instruction, explanation, and demonstration. I stumbled upon this video (i already know how to tie in😊) and just want to see someone explain it so I could teach my kids. You remind me of an instructor I had twenty years ago.
Hi! Very cool video! Thank you! I am thinking of practicing this sport and the details in your video are very interesting. But I have a question: instead of using the figure 8 knot why don't climbers use a bowline knot? It's a sailor's knot, it's equally secure, easier to tie and it will resist a side-load. It would also be easier to adjust. It's only downside is that it can not be untied under load. But I guess one would have no reason to try that and besides the figure 8 is also hard (impossible) to untie under load. Just asking! Thank you!
The double fisherman's knot is mandatory is some countries, for example in France where it's deemed mandatory by the national federation (FFME). Useless or not...insurance might not cover you if don't have it.
I've heard its recommended to tie rope to harness starting from top to bottom. Why? If you forget to go through bottom hole, at least your center of gravity will be higher, so in case of fall, you will not hang with your head down.
I'm on a "rescue" team at work (chemical plant). Meaning basic rope and pulley rescue. It is mandatory for us to tie "safety knots." I wonder why industrial rescue would require it. Someone tell me.
Also tip: watch out in which direction you twist your hand when making the 2 loops for the first knot before you pass it through your harness loops. Since if you twist opposite of how he twists even if you start retracing on the right you will have 1 fold. Enjoy!
I saw some beginners at my gym (which enforces using the stopper knot) taking a fall and the stopper knot was what kept them on the rope. The beginners at my gym ended up doing something that looked similar to a figure eight but the entire rope slid through until it reached the stopper knot. The figure eight might not need a safety knot when done properly but he problem is when people end up doing something else and believe it's a figure eight knot.
Stuff me stubbie mate, I've never done rock climbing nore have I needed a knot like that . But after watching you do this , I want to do it . Great tips young man . And now I'm gonna practice. Or try to do it . The knot, I'll wait for the rock climbing bit
Honestly for tying in you should thread the loop in whatever way the manufacturer recommends you, for instance the Black Diamond Momentum Harness asks you to thread top to bottom while the Petzl Corax asks you to thread bottom to top
Wud it be possible to create a third video with just the basics. Both ur videos r too long to keep some folks' attention. Also diff tying info in the two videos. The take aways: There is actually a correct way to tie it. Especially helpful to know, if ur always trying to pull it apart when u get down. Load strands r on the insides. So they don't jam into the parallel strands when loaded. Dress it tightly with no crossing strands. There shud be no movement in the knot when loaded. Small loop/bight thru both hard points. So u don't clip into it unexpectedly. Short tail with no need for a backup knot. Showing the Yosemite finish to help in ease of release ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-QAr-uHd8h8o.html ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-PJkCaUUhqgs.html
1:35 he tied a double overhand knot (which is an example of a stopper knot) often wrongly reffered to as the fisherman's knot or in this case a double fisherman's knot. The fisherman's knot is a bend, that means it joins *two ends* of a rope togerher
Thanks! and... Ah so many different recommendations, I took it from Petzl where they say 10cm: www.petzl.com/US/en/Sport/Tying-in-with-a-figure-8-knot But the fact is that tight Fig 8 almost doesn't slip... And we don't generate falls hard enough for any significan slippage
That’s just for the American market obviously since they’re only one of 3 countries not using metrics. Most Countries are in the 10-15cm range with most towards 10. The Brits still advocate a stopper knot while other national bodies don’t!!
A reflective vest doesn’t save me from a car crash, but wearing one is safer then directing traffic without one. I’ll still back up my eight, but directly next to the knot-not 2 feet up from it
i was taught the right way to tie it in the 70s, by Helmut MicRoys, who was with the UIAA, and wrote the book on ropes. I had to figure out the hard start, but that was obvious once one knew where one was headed. Just tie knots and take them apart if you want to learn something. He said the right way was stronger, 80% versus 65%. I don't think that is what the testing shows today, though he would have had access to similar gear. It is stronger just not that dramatic.
I’m having a problem when I make the figure 8, the tail end is going down into the bottom half of the 8, instead of up out of the bottom half of the 8 as is shown in the video. I’ve been sitting here retrying it 100x and can’t figure out why that’s happening!
Hello, Could you please show how to do a proper eight knot directly on the rope as seen at 10:39 (so without using the "knitting" method ie without tracing back the original figure of a first eight) ? Cheers
