Tim, I need to apologize to you! Your video popped up and I watched it again. I saw my original comment. I am so sorry that I did not tell you how good your video and accurate your information was! Very well done! Respectfully, Kevin
Hey great job Tim thank you much for sharing... found this very helpful.. and from a guy whose just getting started on some youTube content myself truly enjoyed it.
No. In my locality, sub panels that are in separate buildings must have both a ground from the main panel and a ground rod. You need to check your local laws and codes.
This may be a stupid question.. but if one piece of equipment needs like 90 amps... does it draw from the panel as a whole? Or do you need to have like... say a bunch of unused breakers?
Good video. Better than most, Maybe in future a video about the theory and differences between wiring a standalone main panel and main panel subpamel. Example why you split the neutral bus and ground bus.
I'm not a controls guy, I worked as design engineer for contractors and consultant from 1983-2018. Since you mentioned it in your video, what is your perceived purpose for the one or two ground rods in the electrical system? Not all sub-panels get them as stated, only if in a different building. Respectfully, Kevin
Hi Kevin. As far as one vs two ground rods, NEC 250.56 requires a second ground rod if the ground has a resistance of 25 ohms or more. I don't want to get into the argument of whether all sub panels should have grounds or not.
Tim Wilborne I totally agree with you on higher than 25 ohms requires second rod. In my code classes, it was suggested that it is cheaper to just drive two and forget it. Testing time would be higher cost than installing the second rod. What I meant by not all sub panels need ground rods, keeping this conversation in dwelling units, if you have a 200 amp main service panel in a dwelling, it is required to have all available grounding electrodes connected to it. Now put a 100 ampere sub panel in the middle of the dwelling next to the kitchen. No ground electrodes are required. Put another 60amp sub panel in a detached garage, a connection to grounding electrode is required. Note: this requirement of ground electrodes in separate buildings flip flopped back and forth several times between 1981 and 2005 NEC. Not looking for any arguments. Hope this clarifies my comment. Respectfully, Kevin
@@KevinCoop1 I beleive the main purpose of the ground rods in a simple dwelling is for lighting protection. Thats why a sub-panel in an annex building needs a ground rod. It gives a bath for nuisance current to bleed off the system. It also helps the whole electrical system have a reference to work with, one common ground. This becomes important in large buildings with multiple tranformers and sensitive equipment.
@@ericwotton2046 if you are running 50 feet out to a garage underground and in plastic conduit. would a secondary rod be needed to ground the sub panel from lightning generated electricity coming through the main panel and out to the garage?
You said that live-to-neutral is 120V but that live-to-live is 220V.....shouldn't that be 240V ? Also, is the neutral bonded with earth in the main panel ? Many thanks in advance for your reply.
220, 230, 240,... They are all the same depending on the area you live in. Same with 110, 115, 120. Yes in the main panel the ground and neutral are bonded together. Nowhere else.
There is a long history on what we used in the past as far as volts go. We actually used 100 volts back in the day and the progressed to 110, 115, 120.
So heres what we have going on. We have a main pole that has 200 amp service to it. We have a shed that is about 350 to 400 feet away and we'd like to install a sub panel to feed an A.C. and a fridge. I think I need a 50 amp breaker at the main box then run #6 UF wire to the sub panel which will have two 15 amp breakers, one to feed an outlet for the A.C. and one to feed the outlet for the fridge. Does this sound like the right set up? Also would I need to worry about voltage drop or would this set up enable The A.C. and fridge to run without fault even with voltage drop. I have literally just started to learn about all this in the last week. Treat me like a toddler when answering please. haha
It seems hard to find a video or information, easy, about wiring/power cables, running from my house to my disconnected garage when my garage is not really disconnected. Its a 1975 house with an attached walkway to the garage with power cables running up in the attic all the way. Im missing something.
Is the panel box itself (equipment ground) grounded with just the two screws holding the grounding bar to the panel case? On the face of it, it doesn't seem sufficient.
Not bad, but still need to watch another video to pull the power and run the conduit. Not a full subpanel install video. Basic "wire any panel" with the exception of the ground bar being different in a sub panel.
Why would you use a white( neutral) wire in combination with a black( hot) wire for a double pole breaker? Shouldn't it be 3 wire,red and black to double pole white to neutral and ground to ground?
@Tim Wilborne appreciate your answer. Just a quick question. When wiring a sub panel, it should not be wired were the ground and neutral are bonded? What type of panel is that. Does it come not bonded?
@@newday8172 That could vary depending on where you are located but for the most part they are only bonded at the main panel, they are separate at sub panels.
Why a inverter put out current through its neutral leg? I wire a 120v inverter to a two circuit 70amp breaker box and I'm get current through the neutral but I return the inverter cause its 3000watt pure sine wave inverter and can't start my vaccum and my other 2500 watt pure sine wave inverter could run my entire house.
You exceeded code on a couple things, good for you. Ground rods only need 6 feet of separation and NMB needs strapping within 12 inches from the box not 6. I could not tell if the grounding electrode was continuous between ground rods as is required due to ground rod clamps are rated for one conductor only.
Great video for sure. Very informative. So I went to the link on determine wire size and distance. I am running a #6 (copper) from the house to my shed sub-panel. it's 165 feet. Probable will running a window unit at some point. Not running anything big, maybe a fridge, computer, small air compressor. So is number #6 to small at that distance or should I run #4? Setting up a 50 amp panel in the shed. Thanks!
Thank you for a very well done video. I’m putting in a sub panel for a basement apartment. It will have a dryer and an electric stove so I’m going to have a sub panel. My question is related to the ground rod. I initially was going to put my panel on an inside wall but that would mean I would need to run the ground right up through the ceiling and then down to the outside. Can I assume that’s not ideal and I should put the panel on an outside wall? Also, can ground rods be drilled through the concrete slab and into the ground underneath the slab? I’m thinking no but I thought I would check.
Definitely want to check with local codes on the ground rod. At least here you could have it one an inside wall and run the ground to the nearest outside wall. I have no idea on the concrete slab, never ran into that situation. I would consult a local electrician, you'll be dollars ahead.
When you're past your outside main you do not run a ground from the panel to the outside, if you do you're defeating your purpose of having a ground path back to the main panel where the power supply enters the residence, if you ask an electrician be sure and ask someone who knows the code and has experience with installing sub-panels.
Okay, this was super helpful. We're running a sub panel into our shed to run an ice machine and a time clock, and this video helped with some of our questions, but everything inside the shed will be 120v, so do you have a video of how you connect this inside the main panel to feed the sub panel? Inside the shed will only be an ice machine, a time clock, and a couple outlets and 2 led ceiling lights. All 110, so we wouldn't need 240 coming into the shed. We'll have a separate breaker in the main panel for this shed, but how do we connect that breaker for 120v and 100 amps? The 100 amps is the bosses decision.
They aren’t bonded in a subpanel to eliminate a parallel path of current back to the panel on the ground and neutral. Since the white neutral is the return for current to flow back to the source, if you were to bond the ground to it, it would then share a path with the neutral and share the current flowing back and becomes a current carrying conductor which it was not meant to do. The ground is only suppose to carry current in a fault condition ie short circuit or ground fault. This is why they are separated. I hope that helps and was understandable.
You then have to worry about nails from the outside siding into the "back" side of the stud. Always drill an appropriately sized hole in the middle of the stud. If you're using the correct size drywall screws, you don't need to worry about nail plates.
Don’t quit your day job there buddy…. Oh wait, nevermind. Jk lol. Enjoyed this, good information and well put together. Thanks for sharing! Btw that panel you flashed on the screen looked killer!!🤩
For anyone new at a workplace or wherever it's needed or required, the "cosmetic" part of it takes a long time to get a feel for. It can really be a pain in the neck to sit for hours bending and twisting cables and wires only for the looks.
@@TimWilborne And don't ask me how I know... I remember being new at a place and how much time it took to mess around with the wiring and to make it look good, etc. The tasks per se weren't difficult even though I'd never set my foot there before let alone worked with those things in my life. Once you knew exactly what to do and how to do it right it was okay. The trickiest might've been reading the charts correctly, like connecting certain components on to the boards. Anyway, to cut a long story short, the job lasted for 2 months when I had to quit. I used too much time in someone's opinion. In MY opinion, kicking someone out after 2 months is ludicrous.
I appreciate your mention of the ground rod installation. I believe when my place was done, I may have had one of those vendors that cut the rod short. I'm running into bleed over issues with one circuit on a 100-amp panel and have a few suspicions.
@@StoicThrower Interesting, is it just one circuit causing the issue? Your panels are all networked properly with grounds and neutrals separated back to the main service panel (where they combine.) You might have a ground fault within that circuit either an appliance or improper wiring in the brach wiring. A ground rod really wouldnt effect this much unless multiple transformer are involved.
@@ericwotton2046 yep. One circuit. Checked it all. Replaced every receptacle. Wired correctly. Nothing was plugged in. Never did find a definitive reason for it. Ran a new 20 amp circuit with no drama.
i don't think that grounding rod should have been installed in the first place. The grounding bond should only be at the mains panel. By adding another ground rod, you can potentially create another path back to source through earth that would cause the issue you're talking about. The bleed is current on ground where it should not be.
Ya lost me. If I had a double pole breaker. That means I have one breaker that has two outputs. I would put my black wire into one of them. And then I would put my red wire into the other pole. Let's say I had 12 three wire. I would have a bear ground wire, a red wire and a black wire, and the white wire would be the neutral wire. I don't understand why you would put a white wire which is generally a neutral wire into your breaker?
@@TimWilborne it does vary. A requirement for some, a convenience for all. You can back feed a breaker equal to or larger than than the feeder breaker in the main if the sub doesn’t have a main.
What is the main difference between a main panel and a sub panel? Is it just that in a sub panel the ground and the neutral wires have to be on their own bars?
@@TimWilborne I also have another question if you have time. If you were to open up a panel on a new home with three pin wiring and you were to open up a panel on an older home with only two pin wiring how would you tell the difference right off the bat just by looking? Not for sure if you understand this question or not.
Nothing. 220, 230, 240, and occasionally the label 200 VAC single phase are all the same. Even across the US there are variations on which term is used
Dear Tim I have a detached garage 40 foot from the house. I understand that I need a ground bar seperate from the neutral bar. Can I run a seperate grounding rod to this garage subpanel grounding bar? What is a floating ground? Can I run the conductors from the house to the lugs on the sub panel or do I need a seperate disconnect at the subpanel? Thanks
I need to add more circuits. I have a 100 amp fuse box and I would like to add a sub panel with about 16 to 24 circuits. Can I add a sub panel rated for 125 amps to a 100 amp main panel?
This video was great. I'm in the process of wiring a sub panel into my new garage and the panel did not come with a ground buss. Thank you for the solid info
What do I do if I have a full main breaker box and want to add a sub panel ? Is there a Way to grab one of my other breakers for the sub panel? I’m not going to use this as my only source just want to see if my project is even possible I basically have a full breaker and the original basement outlet and so many others outlets and lights are on one single 15 amp breaker so I wanted to add a circuit for basement for my workshop and sub panel seems the only choice i have
Hello. I currently have a 40amp sub panel and need to accommodate an extra 60amps in it. In the 40amp sub panel there is a 15 amp and a 30amp. What size breaker do I need in the main?
I don’t mean to be that guy I just would absolutely never use that bit it is just too comically large to even justify picking up instead of a paddle bit. Seriously a whole set of diablos is like $20
You mean spade bits? Nah, I can't agree with you on that one. An auger bit takes less effort. Let the rolls do the work. And I have shorter ones for tight spaces but this one is much easier on the body.
You mentioned a link to calculate the wire size based on load and distance. Do you have that available? I’ll be running to a sub panel 100’ run from the main. I’m unclear on exactly what type of feeder breaker I need. But will need at least 75 amp feeder.
Not all 240V arc welders are the same and not all 240V air compressors are the same. First you would need to know the maximum amperage draw from them, then you would need to go to a voltage drop calculator such as: www.southwire.com/calculator-vdrop I think the NEC allows a maximum voltage drop of 5%, but I would shoot for no more than a 2% voltage drop, even though Southwire recommends a 3% voltage drop.
I was going to tell you to stay in your lane, but you're already there. Looks like you've done this a time or two. :) I'm not saying that I'm an old electrician, but I still remember doing new installations using TW wire (and thank your lucky stars if you haven't had to pull that garbage into a conduit - however, it does do a great job of pointing out if you haven't reamed your conduit properly). I was taught to strip the sheathing off of the Romex cable prior to running it into the panel, and it does make for a little bit tidier of a job. But that's really just how my Journeyman beat it into me, rather than any personal preference (my personal preference being not to be beaten anymore than I had to be). Anymore, I would just go ahead and run the second ground rod and be done with it. Copper water lines into the house is a thing of the past. And to anyone who wants to do their own wiring, I would suggest visiting a construction site under the guise of being potential buyers and look around to see how the "AHJ" (Authority Having Jurisdiction) wants it done. But be fully prepared to have your job turned down even if you have done your wiring the exact same way as the pros. It's just a homeowner thing, and complaining to the AHJ is only going to make it worse. Oh, and: 1) Bring donuts and coffee. 2) Show up just before first break. 3) Keep a sharp eye out for the boss, and if he/she is not there, chat up one of the electricians to see if they would be interested in helping you out. Keep in mind that some shops treat "side work" as a firing offense, which is why you have to make sure that the boss is elsewhere. 4) Don't be a jerk. Pay in cash. And in slow times like these, the AHJ will turn down everyone's jobs pretty regularly to keep his inspector buddies from getting laid off. As an electrician, shop owner or otherwise, it is in your best interest to pay this bribe since what you don't want to see is your normal inspectors having to move on and then you have to break in a new one.
@@TimWilborne Oh yeah, that's a workout. Not to mention running the conduit for those cables, including busting a hole for two 4" conduits *horizontally* through a concrete footer. Ever run a jackhammer horizontally? No fun...
@@TimWilborne LOL! The programming port was where my journeyman was going to put his boot if I whined about running the jackhammer. :) That really was the installation from heck. We had a heavy rain the day before it was to be inspected (so it was still open for inspection), and the ditch where we had our two 4" PVC runs got completely backfilled with sand. The conduits, being empty, naturally rose to the top of the ditch and were sticking out every fifty feet or so. So we had to hand dig the ditch again, this time being careful not to break our conduits. I was happy to see that run get finished. Pulling the wire wasn't too bad, we used a capstan puller, and each of us young bucks got to pull the wire off of one spool each. I've been involved in worse pulls... :) Another really bad ditch was one that fed a pad mount transformer and went down the center of an alley to the vault. It had eight "known" crossings. A combination of water, telephone, cable TV, power, as well as a sewage line below all of it. It also had one "unknown" crossing which the city neglected to locate for us, and we naturally found it, and removed it, for them. It was an abandoned water line that the city had simply capped off rather than removing. We ripped the unmarked line right out of its corporation (what the city water crew called the connection between the main and the smaller water line). Ever see how much water can come out of a 3/4" hole at 800 PSI? It's prodigious... The city tried to blame us, claiming that we were responsible for items that they had missed. Right. Our company wasn't having any of that nonsense, and the city got to fix and pay for the damage. It wouldn't have been as bad but the corporation was mounted at about twenty degrees from horizontal and the water pressure undercut a large portion of the parking lot to an attorney's office which collapsed into the ditch. Of course the ditch filled up in no time at all, and that little hole was now providing the center of Colorado Springs with a decent sized stream for the kids to play in. So there's always an upside. And this was also one of those runs that had to be encased in concrete, so we had that to deal with as well once the carnage got cleaned up. We also had to run a ditch for our power behind a strip mall that we were wiring. We had contracted a guy to cut the trench with his Ditch Witch. The only located line was a telephone line marked for us by Ma Bell. As the dutiful apprentice, I offered to hand dig that section out for him. He said "Don't bother, I can feel the cable with my stinger". Nonetheless I went to the truck to get a shovel, but by the time that I had gotten back the stinger on the Ditch Witch was wrapped up in an array of multicolor wires from the cable. Kinda reminded me of a Christmas tree... He had hit a one thousand pair cable that carried the long distance calls from Colorado Springs to Denver. As well as being used for communications to and from Norad. So yeah, not a good cable to have an accident with... Ma Bell (Mountain Bell) employees started popping up like popcorn all over the place. They were easy to spot, white shirts, black slacks, and all with unpleasant looks on their faces. The downtime was $1,000 a minute. The bonding company refused to cover the damage, citing "stupidity". That was the end of his company, and much of his personal possessions. My boss did a back door deal with him to buy his Ditch Witch so that he could have a bit of cash to live off of until he could sell his house to cover (a portion of) the damages. Ma Bell wasn't taking any prisoners on this one. He offered to help cut a new ditch, which had to go thirty or forty feet in both directions from the damaged spot (you have to remove a large section because the wire insulation gets ruined closer to the cut). The Ma Bell splicers said "Thanks, but you've done enough". The first thing that the splicers did when they had their new ditch dug, was to dig out "thrones" for themselves in the wall of the ditch to provide a place for them to sit while they made their splice. Pretty obvious to me that they were going to be there for awhile. It took them thirty hours to splice in a new section.
I have a sub panel in a garage, fed by 4 wires (2 hot, neutral, and ground). The neutral bar in the sub panel is not bonded to ground and I believe/read it should NEVER be bonded in a sub panel. I have 3 things attached to the sub panel- a three prong outlet for a compressor, an air conditioner (3 wire), and an electric garage heater (3 wire). All are 240v (or 220?). I do not have a separate grounding rod for the sub panel. The sub is 4 feet from the main panel and I added a grounding bar to the sub panel. *****The question is... should the ground for each of the 3 connections be connected to the ground bar or neutral bar in the sub panel? I cannot find the answer anywhere!!! Thanks!
I'm and automation engineer who live on a farm. Been upgrading wiring and panels. The most recent of which was installed almost 50 years ago when I was three. One question...why does the ground rod need to be at least 6' from the panel? As in what's the real purpose of the distance? Not the NEC answer.
Where does it say that in NEC code? It is suppose to be a few feet from the structure, I assume so it is truly grounded and not up against the footers of the building and if you have two ground rods then they must be 6' apart, but I've never heard that they have to be 6' from the panel.
Can I run a subpanel from another subpanel? I have a subpanel about 20 feet from where I want to install one. My main breaker panel is about 100 feet away.
Question: Is it ok to add a subpanel to the main panel even so the main panel does not have a main breaker? Hope my question makes sense. Thanks in advance!
Your main panel would have a main breaker. Then in your main panel you would install another breaker which would send power to your sub panel. If you put in a 200 amp panel you would have two 100 amp breakers. On one leg of that panel you could install let's say a 50 amp breaker and then run power from that into a subpanel.
