There's less complaining about m+ because people have already quit. All my friends that tried it already gave up this season and im pugging by myself for now but will probably quit soon
blizzard are definitely too worried about the highest key pushers. just design this to be reasonable for a normal persons cognitive load, and then let the best players push the limits to the moon.
I say this with love. But thinking the general community is just getting their weekly 10s done is hilarious. Most of my friends unfortunately are struggling to get their portals. Pugs and premades. I think the % of players who are just logging on and getting 8/8 10 vaults is probably minimal. But idk, maybe I just am hanging around non bueno players
Last I looked the top 10% cutoff was around 2400. 2500 is all timed 10s. That means less than 10% of the playerbase has portals. If I had to guess I’d say around 5%
I can't even get into 10 pugs, like last expac I'd atleast get into one every week but I'm getting denied at 8 & 9 pugs all day this season is ROUGH man
"in 10 ilvl you will feel differently" good grief, if i imagine the grind i just want to uninstall as a non mythic raider. the solution is to keep portals on 10 and make mythtrack vault 8 again.
As a player who tried doing a triple ranged comp with my friends while playing shadow priest, I can confirm that not having crazy amounts of cc/melee kicks makes these dungeons infinitely more frustrating. It's hard to find a group of friends that not only is down to push keys but also down to reroll classes that are good at m+ when they may have already committed to playing a class for their raid
Honestly I love that fact you guys are streaming the inners of MDI practice and mdi itself even knowing that all that stuff usually kept under wraps for strats and what not, its sick too watch absolute cinema
Growl's guild problem with people soaking 4 orbs at once on silken is something my guild had to review and correct. It can either be : - red side didnt move between poison and web pop. - 2 players cliped each other with poison - someone stayed in the area of the web during the trigger, this one is tricky you'll not be linked with the web but still take damage and trigger an orb so if you are overlaping 2 webs you have to really be mindful of your position. - some dumbo moved on an already existing orb and pop another one on top I hope it'll help some of you!
i wish they would've just kept it the way it was before 6 or hell make it 7s for aspect crests if you want to force people to suffer challenger's peril and keep myth at 8s or even 9s so people can farm myth track without having to basically finish their goal (for me and my friends our goal was always portals and then farm gear) it very much ruined my motivation so much so that i did my KSM and ever since didn't step into a single key anymore because i don't have fun anymore with 15 sec death timer (i want to note i play with anywhere between 1-3 friends so the rest is pugs, if i had a full group or if that one friend of mine was actually better at the game maybe i would still have a lot more fun but they also tricked me into some random keys that we had no chance of timing because their old tank friend hasn't played his character in 8 years and we take him into an 8 grim batol at 600)
Regarding dispels: why not give every healer spec the talent to dispel all schools. You’ve got 3 schools that you can dispel on your usual cooldown and the other 2 incline a longer cd?! That’s makes it less punishing and stills advises people to take for example a healer that can dispel poisons on the regular cd in ara-kara over a healer that cannot
It might only sound like 1 key level, but gilded crests dropping on 8's doubles the range of keys which you can acquire gear from before hitting the big 10 barrier. That is pretty huge for people who 8's are relevant content to.
it did exactly what lowering standards always does. it gave players access to gear they don't deserve. It's DEI but for your wow character. The lfg was flooded with complete cans who got 10 keys and inflated ilvl because of this change.
They should add the renown/battle pass style timeline for mythic+ rewards. Just something for every 100 score after 2500 or whatever it might be. I think that style of progression is just easy to digest and push for. Titles and cosmetics are fine, but also imagine stuff like your flask timer does not deplete while in an active key, extra gold from completion.
For the zero to hero M+ thing it would be awesome to have one the bench team and one poddy c team and have them compete to see who can push higher. To select players do a google form with 10 questions on it and then each podcast takes turns drafting players based on their answers
For best affix I think Awakened essily takes the cake. Being able to move around a bunch of ways in the dungeon through the obelisks was so good for routing and also solved a lot of skips requiring rogue or warlock or whatever. Also, you didn't "have" to do the affix and COULD pull some of them with the last boss which also added more routing options.
Gilded crest 8 to 9 sounds like a small change but felt very impactful. Since many people play to get 2.5k, m+ basically starts at +5-+7 and ends at +10, considering that range the buff was highly impactful!
The problem with groups isn't that getting group is impossible, it's that less people rolled tank this tier because of nerfs. So less groups are being formed making dps role wayyy more competitive. And if you played with a good frost dk, you'll know that they make your key just that much more easier. It's insane.
@@ghgfjfgkghdfh I came into this tier with 3 tanks and 3 healers. Yes I did have a guild group but I have no issues getting into groups but damn it’s sad seeing undergeared dps trying to push through keys. Maybe this past week you should have seen the ilvls of people trying to do the mythic weekly quest with m0 those dps just wanted to get carried to get their mythic 2 key to try to get pushed along.
Don´t defend them nerfing poison cleansing totem pls Growl. It´s not limiting design space. THey just should not make specific debuffs tuned to a level that forces you to bring not only one, but 3 dispells of a certain kind to a dungeon. Decurse, Antipoision and co should be nice to have, nothing more. Just half all the poison dmg and curses and hardtop their scaling at 10. (and you do care a lot about that even on a 5 if 5 is a progress key for you and you do not have a clean run like whatever you imagine, good grief get out of that bubble. it still ticks for 30%++ evenb in low keys).
@@earthwormhimmy it was not deserved for priest then, and they just repeat the mistake. It´s their lazy design making abilities existing in the game since years before all of a sudden overpowered.
My take on the poison cleanse thing is that different dispel types and dps dispelling and any special utility talents of that sort should be useful and noticeably impactful but the reward shouldnt be unlocking the ability to even clear your +10 key as an average player but instead you think "if i bring this, my healer can focus more on damage and this one dispel global will result in more dps in the long run." I dont like healing feeling so punishing and comp restrictive. I simply cannot outheal the curse in stonevault btw...
Dispels aren't fun They've never been fun They aren't particularly hard either it's just a global/knowledge tax I can count on one hand the number of bosses since vanilla where ive had fun dispelling
Grow: If you love playing with your friends and you love your class, M+ is great. No shit lmao the problem is most people's non-meta fav classes are getting shit on. Growl is so out of touch.
"If you play with friends it´s fun" - yea, sure. But much more fun if you actually progress. Being in the grinder of keys you can absolutely time, but you tank leaves when you have zero wipes because your random ret pala made a single misstep and died to a oneshot and it´s a deplete. Or orbs spawn on the 2nd boss in ara kara when he does his insectswarm dance phase and suddenly the swarm ticks you for 1,4mio dmg per 0,5 sec through a defensive. The power of friendship has limits. The more i think about it the more i am for taking away the timer in gearing keys, give people more room to actually learn. Add the timer at 11 when it´s not about gear, but about the fun of the challenge only (and take away the +10%guile instead to keep a smoother progression curve).
The best part about these class tuning changes is that they are basically locked in with this being the huge anniversary patch. Hope all the non dk/shamans like getting declined from groups for hours on end.
@@Valvad0ss have you even tried signing up for keys cause it’s exactly this, if your not meta you’re getting curved every time. This day an age of how much “meta” is shoved down people throats to the point where they believe if they don’t have this class they won’t time a key. 3872 signed up lets this past week 1864 declined and inv to 53 of them. I’m 2.7 IO 628 ilvl Sin Rogue. Shit needs to stop being surger coated, there is an issue stop ignoring it.
Stone boss in stone vault needs another nerf, and the duo boss in stone vault needs to cast half as often because not every group is running dk sham for ranged mele kicks
Remove crests for gear upgrades and just use stones. The higher the gear level the more stones needed and the higher the key the more you get. Means people who hit ksm or ksh at the end of the season can push gear to out gear the content as the season goes on. Currently a lot get stuck around 610/615 level and give up.
The +8 change is bad. It's now harder to push my key to 10 because nobody wants to sign up for 9s any more so I'm relying on 2 chesting an 8 with people that can't do 9s to get a crack at a 10 key. Probably finished with M+ this week
What’s insane to me is that they do reworks of hero talents for frost DK and it gains damage with no downside, meanwhile ww got a quality of life Change for shadopan and also got it nerfed by 8% to even it out more instead of just letting it be stronger since WW definitely needs the power gain more than the DK or arcane mages do lol.
As a fury warrior main (maybe changing cause somehow frost keeps getting buffed while we keep getting nerfed) gilded crests dropping from 8’s is a huge change because while I do have almost every dungeon timed on a 10 with my friends when I go over to the lfg system instead of it taking 45 mins to get into a crest farming key it now takes 30 minutes to get into one because it’s 1 key level lower. Big pog.
IMO these changes are a clear indication of changing talent design without much regard for tuning. I expect the tuning to come within the next couple of weeks
This game desperately needs an interrupt modernization. Give healing priests a kick. Remove kick from fel hunter so you can use other pets. Give balance and Spriests an option for kicks. Give rdruids a non-obnoxious kick to use. Basically give all ranged healers a 30 second interrupt and melee a 20. The spell school lockout times works great in pvp and adds class flavor but in m+ its useless and everyone would just prefer the shaman kick. Currently most dangerous casts are pass/fail so the more often a group can kick is just better than having a mage counterspell with a 5 second lockout or spriest silence. The dangerous spell goes on cd then recasts.
1:43:25 even aside from Stonevault I also don't seem to have issues in Seige. That dungeon DOES have problems don't get me wrong, but I have never been domed for a majority of my health for missing a single Brackish Bolt cast or whatever it is called.
50:00 While we're at it, can we have a few more way to dispell bleeds other than evokers? A lot of hybrid can help with poison-curse-deseases... but bleed are still limited to evoker - dwarf - Ppal bubble.
50:47 the issue with both curse dispels this season is for some unholy reason they are fat heal absorbs that ALSO do a lot of ticking damage so you are just wittling down and just die to something else (like the AoE slam in Stonevault or whatever). ALL heal absorbs should just work like Curse of Doom. If you don't get rid of the debuff either by dispelling or actually healing it off you get blasted at the end if it times out. You'll still basically die from not dealing with it, but you won't be sitting at half health for any other stray damage coming your way that just finishes you off.
i have a suggestion for this podcast if you guys ever get little to talk about. you should do a history ep on what spec's where meta what season since the start of m+ and see if there is spec that never have been meta.
Making content so difficult people who play WoW for a living complain about it. No wonder Mythic raid numbers have been a joke for years now. Even worse, M raiding indirectly makes the rest of content worse by forcing dumb gearing systems because M raiding (which barely anyone does) has to give the strongest rewards.
Couldn’t agree more. My friends list and guild is a ghost town. People would rather play an arcade golf game and hang out than play wow on the 5th week. The experience of wow this patch was a huge miss.
They wanted m+ equal to M difficulty, they didn't realize that they bit the hand that helped them progress and make off-meta specs/clases way fucking hard.
@@zhspartan9993 Its wild how hard blizzard wants an esport they are willing to cannibalize the player base just to make an esport centric game. It makes no sense otherwise how hard they are making the game.
U only need the best gear if ur doing the hardest content. It's not a dumb gearing system if good gear actually has weight. I think a dumber loot system is the welfare epics most people want. Keep in mind high lvl keys are also unpopular. The truth is, this season has made people realize they never liked m+, they liked getting free loot.
@@Uko980 Ive said the same thing. They want wow to be an RPG and Esport but you can't have both. This was ultimately one of the biggest issues that plagued Shadow Lands with the faction systems. This isn't like LoL (which I haven't played for a very very long time) where I just level up my runes and I can easily swap roles on the fly and plug meta champion in. If you don't have a meta class you have to start over. Yes its easier but its still time consuming and could take weeks to get back up to the same level where your current main is. In that time they could just nerf the meta class, its too risky IMO.
I'll never touch mythic court but man, growl's rant, specially the 2nd part was fucking hilarious. No matter at what level you raid everyone can relate to that.
For NW, now I'm not in turbo high keys (11-12), but I feel like now the move is to just pull 2 gatekeepers and skip Narzuda. You get to keep your orbs (granted you can't necessarily grab the second one easily without a priest) and holy hell that pack is even more ass. Blowing your load on a second gatekeeper and praying is far more managable than "oops we missed a single cast on the 4 caster pack and someone died".
I'd love to see the affix be changed from a heal absorb-like which you just dispel, to include a reward incentive of +5% damage if you dispel or a large amount of +% healing if you heal it off instead. Incentivises dps to use their utility to dispel, but also means that healers that don't have any immediate answer and need to heal can then catch back up and be rewarded.
Poison cleansing totem should have been changed from 45 second cool down to 2 minute before the devour Affix week. Would have been better if moved to a 3 minute cool down so it could not be cheesed by totemic recall. I do agree that the dispells should be magic. I also think that all healers cannot dispell everything is poor design. All healers should have the same utility for dispells . Lastly, Priests should have ranged interrupt.
The oblivion affix has been hit or miss depending on the boss, like 3rd boss in siege where the wave comes and orbs feels really bad when the boss gets 30% damage increase and wipes you when it does the unavoidable aoe :(
48:30 the issue is compounded the higher you go as well. In a pisslow key the big idiot in CoT is probably only getting one cast off so it doesn't matter if it goes off. Not only is it not super lethal, but without PCT everyone just hits a defensive no big deal. When you get higher up not only is the DoT absolutely lethal, but he's going to live long enough to see probably a THIRD cast. What is easier? Perfectly rotating who gets dispelled and can save their defensives while the others have to use one on each set (also good luck healing on the move as some specs since there's a ton of swirlies as well for some reason) or hitting the funny green stick button and completely removing the mechanic?
As a 2200 io bad healer it would be nice if the big gem guy in stonevault had 1 less mechanic my party had to keep track of. Just seems like there is so much going on in that boss. Like i know its simple on paper, but adds that have to be staggered out, with huge damage, then the purple orbs that need to be absorbed, and swirlies that need to be dodged as a damage check boss is overwhelming the moment you add a pug
All I want to do is relax and do some dungeons to upgrade gear for my character after work day and having spent time with my family, and its rarely possible with guildies so mostly I have to use LFG, but this season it feels like a real chore. I don't have 12h+ time to play wow everyday as I am in my 30ies with job and family and sometimes it takes 30-60min to just get into a group or to form a group from already limited time I have, not even mentioning the concentration needed just to do a +9. This is just not fun and mentally exhausting and I am unfortunately unsubbing.
The fact that there are no more chill keys hits hard. You have to be totally focused for the whole key. It takes longer to get in a key too so you need to maximize your opportunities.
regarding casters that spam: i think it´s fine for the mob archetype, they really just have to tune down the scaling and hardcap it at a 10 at most, so you can actually heal through not everything being kicked. It´s nice for mob variance, it´s just really terribly thoughtless in implementation. and yea, i was so shocked when the volley got off in my group yesterday and i did not have to really heal anything. great animation, good cast time and it just does nothing. So weird.
Tettles....did you seriously ask Blizzard to buff resto shaman? Bruh! Advocating for the healer that is 80% representative of 12+ keys for healers is so tone deaf.
32:40 nah I agree make hitboxes bigger. Not only would it make melee less ass to play for some mechanics, but it might actually mean spells like Keg Smash can actually tag the whole pack. I sure love only hitting 3 out of 5 of the enemies standing there when I throw my AoE ability to pull.
I had super fun the few times I got to play with people on my Fury Warrior. Sadly I don't get to play with people. I never thought the difficulties was to high compared to other seasons but I just don't get to play the game. That is not fun and I play other games instead and might try again later.
1. Dorki literally just said last week on the PoddyC that he wasn't going to do MDI and Max called cap. That's pretty funny. 2. I got called a dick rider on that Reddit post for saying Humble didn't bug the boss. People were being ridiculous in that thread.
Prideful is the best affix of all time. Made routing so fun and interactive. Great kiss / curse. Big spooky red man but gives big buff. Insanely fun affix.
I imagine they want delves to be the content that old casual m+ players used to do. The delves just need more work before that can really be the case. I’ve loved this m+ season so far but I understand my group takes m+ far more seriously. I wonder if the compromise would be for them to lower the difficulty up to a 10 so people can get their weekly vaults easier while keeping anything over a 10 at the same difficulty level since the only people who should really care about pushing beyond a 10 are those who want to treat it more competitive. I don’t mind letting other people have an easier access to gear as it doesn’t benefit me in any way to gatekeep the gear since most people aren’t doing the level of content my group/guild is anyway.
I’m glad you brought up the LFG protest. I participated in it for 15 minutes, then proceeded to get silenced by Blizzard and suspended from using LFG, chat, and mail. I have zero infractions til now. I would assume many other people are in my position but cannot do anything about it. THIS NEEDS TO BE MORE KNOWN. I cant play the game now.
But who cares though? You know the state of the game will be garbage when they allow Ret paladins to do any damage at all. Just have to wait for season 2.
@@Mas-ij3ti Tons of people care. Idc about which class is better though or who is meta. The m+ progression system sucks and thats what I care about. It isnt fun when 90% are stuck at 11s and to get invited to a 12 you have to be 3kio now. Yes, I push my own key but when it bricks the homework to get it to 12 again is bad.
@@Meisbear I dont disagree, the m+ system sucks. What sucks even more is that they designed the entire game around RWF by making m+ only give hero track which is 13 ilvls behind myth track.
Why are you guys talking so much about the affixes you do not even have to play? i actually prefer sanguine over orbs buffing a boss with no way of stopping it without divine shield.
This is my first season pushing mythic + and I'm full pug. I'm having a lot of fun but maybe because I have no seasons to compare it to. Last time I played was original WotLK.
Hearing Growl talking about he has to do the Mythic Boss he hates doing for the gear just shows you everything wrong with the gearing philosophy atm. Make the hard content optional for people who want to play it. Stop gearing at a heroic level so everyone can participate without feeling forced to suffer just so they can then play other content they actually like playing with better gear.
@@wyckedsyndicate well then it needs changing anyway. keeping it alive soly by making M+ players miserable is not gonna hold forever. i personally think they should make Mythic raid flex, keep the mechanics, put the tuning much more forgiving so aotc guild can progress naturally into it. and then make the 20man mythic raid like it is for keys 11+ as pure aspirational content without additional gearing.
@@wyckedsyndicate So be it. If content doesn't stand up by itself for its own sake then its not good in the first place, I would personally still do M+ and hard raiding even if I was max geared from heroics, the game is just fun. Keeping raiding alive by forcing people who don't want to do it to engage with it isn't a solution lol. Maaaaybe in 2024 20 person organized raiding is a tad outdated and needs a look? Imagine that
@Eulrich 100% agree. Been saying they need to just effectively remove myth gear for a while now (and scale thing accordingly ofc). And I am someone who *is* getting the myth gear.
ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-KAsxLjMiXZU.html I think Growl is like dancing around "the problem" without understanding it. Yea if we could **get into keys** we would time them, but at the 11-12 wall, it's massively difficult to just get into keys. All those people complaining about not being able to overcome the wall are DPS or off-meta healers.
I'm definitely in the camp of hating broodtwister, this is where a good chunk of guilds will go to die. It is just too demanding on the organizational side that a good chunk of guilds will lack. There is already a massive drop off of boss kills after Rashanan and I would expect most guilds just decide to go to Kyveza.
Enhance shaman update, . Flowing spirits and DRE hardly proc now. Back to normal dogs and active ascendance. Dmg nerf to tempest but is cancelled out by 2min ascendance. Slight buff if you know how to set up tempests for ascendance, nerf if you find it difficult on how tempest set ups work.
The lack of complaining comes from apathy. Blizzard does a good job at making people feel apathetic towards their games. People cry out that things need changed and then blizzard doesn't so they move on from the game, and might come back once things get changed, but probably won't till a big patch comes out.
FF14 style fights don't work in WoW environment. FF14 fights are lots of fun, but you can rez people constantly to keep learning certain patterns and even though you're not gonna beat it most likely if people are dying left and right, at least you're getting practice slowly. WoW gives you a certain # of rez and then also doesn't make you immune upon rez so you can just die instantly again
