Biggest value for me as a recreational player going to the tour was meeting players and getting autographs, didn't care that much about watching disc golf but meeting pros in real life was with it. Shout out Matty O for being an incredible guy!
It was a pleasure being on the show again! I'd love to be part of an episode down the line where we get some more time to talk about the significance of the European market. There are numerous reasons we should be putting focus there!
Simple put the European are not as good (yet) at discgolf as we are in the US. It’s the same reason no one watches the WNBA it’s not as good of a product 🤷♀️
@@baseballballer25 I'm not sure that the European scene comparison to the WNBA is quite the same. If you were to take someone who didn't know basketball and have them watch the NBA vs the WNBA, there would be very noticeable differences in athleticism, pace of play, highlight moments, and several other things. If you took someone who wasn't familiar with disc golf and showed them LVC this weekend and the Copenhagen Open, they would hardly notice a skill difference and would instead see tight races at the top of the fields, and arguably, Eveliina's comeback in the final round was much more entertaining than anything that happened at any event this weekend. As for the product perspective, MDG did just as good of a job as Jomez does. The only difference is you don't get to listen to Jerm and Uli make dad jokes, which we could argue isn't as good for the game as people think. The commentary crew for Copenhagen was insightful, excited, and very professional.
@@thumberlife well yeah you just compared a DGPT event to an A tier but my point remains the same and you can see it when you watch presidents cup. The fields would not be as competitive in the EU making it less fun to watch for me. As for product I’m not a person that’s going to watch an A tier or a DGPT even that only ULI at I am a spectator that wants to watch the best in the world compete and we already have that market with the best EU players coming to the states already
@baseballballer25 I can certainly appreciate your point. The best part about sports is that we get to enjoy as little or as much as we want. Just like you said in your comment. It's less entertaining for you. That's totally fine! The key point that I'm trying to make is that we need to continue to grow the sport around the world. If we keep pushing the European market to be better by investing in it, imagine how much more competitive the professional scene will be in the future! It will only enhance your experience and everyone's. 😊
You guys should make a regular segment where you go over the comment section of the previous debate....best comment, funny comments, comment of the day award, comment of the week award?...etc...prob drive a lot of channel engagement
Brodie and hunter have been criticizing ticket prices for the last 5 shows. For General Admission at MOST pro tour events, it is as low as $20/day. I went to the Music City Open with the 3-day General admission pass. I spent $22 per day for this. I had a great spectating experience and even got 2 discs signed by pros. For food/drink, I had a cooler in my car and packed a lunch. It was 100% worth it. Best part is if I wanted to go on just day 1 and 2, or day 3 only, you can save more money if you’d like. Don’t always have to go each day. You keep bringing up the $100 ticket prices, this is all just for VIP. An experience that gets you free food/drink, better parking, and a sweet players pack. Not for me personally, but for those who want that, why not offer it? We all know that the disparity between spectating a disc golf event compared to any other sport is huge. You’re not going to a baseball game with assigned seats and hanging out for 2-3 hours. This is a 3-4 full day experience (if you want to watch both FPO/MPO), where you follow your favorite cards and move around a lot. So, I’m sure the logistics are incredibly difficult to navigate and put a price on, especially at the level the tour seems to be in at least at this time. All this to say, there’s more flexibility with affordable ticket prices than you realize. Preach grow the sport and then complaining about $20/day ticket prices is not it.
Hi, listener here who sent you that e-mail question about "real" athletes. Firstly, I'll grant Gary the win on responding to the question with some extra points to Hunter as well for getting the discussion back on track after Brodie's and Jake's mostly unrelated responses. Secondly, I'll defend my take that regular golfers look, on average, less athletic than disc golfers. I think some people may have a false idea of the athleticism of golfers simply because many of them are in great shape, like Rory McIlroy as Brodie mentioned. That's a bit of a different thing, however, and top golfers have a huge advantage over disc golfers on this front since almost all of them are millionaires with personal trainers, coaches and private gyms. What I see when I look at most top golfers are somewhat awkward nerdy guys with simply incredible technical abilities and golf intelligence, ie. not the type of "real" athletes we're talking about. Look at pictures from Rory's youth before he got buff with his resources, and you'll see a regular-looking nerdy dude. Equip Gannon, Calvin, Anthony or anyone else in our top 10 with millions of dollars and teams of trainers and you'll see each of them evolve in a similar way as Rory has. Golf is also an incredibly more technical sport than disc golf so I think it makes perfect sense to have more of the nerdy type of athlete achieve success in regular golf. Ergo, in my experience disc golfers do, on average, look more athletic than regular golfers. Anyways, my opinion is that the guys and women we already have on tour are 100 % real athletes as they are, and alluding that they're not is unnecessarily talking down on our sport. As Gary mentioned, we should be focusing on pushing this treatment of players as athletes with trainers, athletic gear and marketing.
Thanks gary for standing upp for us Euro players. been seriously annoyed of how it went through on griplock( think one of the few episodes that i havent finnish and i havent missed on in for around 1.5 year or longer.
@@shamanschlong Amateurish you say, You us players mabey want to try to get more crowd on your tournements because last few tournement look AMATEURISH in compared to the EU .
TLDR: adding more European events is good because it grows the sport, could help some Pros increase revenue, and finally could help disc golf be seen as a more “professional sport” I believe we need more majors or elite series events outside of the USA. More European events would help grow the sport, be beneficial for all players involved, and is a way to inject more professionalism into professional disc golf. While disc golf was developed in America and Canada, the PDGA very rarely shows love to the European people that helped develop disc golf into its modern age. Many of the premium plastic discs American professionals use are manufactured in Scandinavian nations. There is a large number of Europeans who love the sport. By having more tour events in Europe it could result in more impassioned fans, and larger galleries. The travel between events is much more streamlined in Europe despite having to cross borders. Europe has a diverse network of accessible transportation from trains, to air travel. These methods of transportation may be cheeper than having professionals drive long distances across the USA. The barrier to this could be the expensive travel across Continents. If this travel cost could be used to access 3 or more Major or elite series events, in one trip, I think the costs could be offset by the cheep travel within Europe. The easy travel could also mean more access to fans who are passionate: a fan from Estonia may have an easier time getting to Denmark, than a Fan from Southern California, to Texas. I see this potentially being beneficial for players as it allows them to expand their following and network with potential sponsors. Both of these are things that would help potentially boost the income of touring professionals. A professional playing an event and meeting some fans in Europe could secure fans for life. Europeans are very passionate about their sports, for examples of this you could look to football across Europe, or how Estonia as a nation has backed Kristin Tattar. There are also many brands in Europe that do not have much American exposure such as Sigr. It could be mutually beneficial for Sigr to sponsor an American professional to try and get their products into the hands of more Americans. Finally, professionals who have toured in Europe have anecdotally said the professionalism demonstrated by European events may be greater than at some American based events. I think to Ulis stories on Tour life this week for evidence of the professionalism. Europe has a much different culture surrounding sports and I think the PDGA could take advantage of this. Ultimately I think a major goal for the PDGA should be to develop a world wide tour, but a starting point could be expanding to a larger European swing. A European Stretch like this would allow the PDGA to be displayed to a larger audiences and help “grow the sport”, which is a major motto of many disc golfers and brands. I see it benefiting players financially and through exposure. And finally I think it could allow American fans to see the game in a more professional light and context. I see expanding to a greater European swing as nothing but beneficial.
Truly a great answer and big points in here! It's kinda funny how Foundation podcasts seem to love DG and the spread all over the world when it's Dec-Feb. But when the season is on, all the EU events are trash, field is trash, nothing over there is important, they limit our sport they divide the field, they do everything poorly. And then the DGPT has baskets on tours where discs fall through the cage, tees which break and pro's twist their ancles, and courses that change into lakes when it rains. They don't recap the events with any depth. It's actually kind of sad.
I went to otb last year. Had to pay $35 just to get to the vendors and watch the first 2 holes. To my knowledge I needed to be a vip in order to go anywhere else on the course. To me it’s not worth it. Won’t be going back
It’s basically like this in Europe (used chatgpt): Football (Soccer) Tennis Basketball Formula 1 Rugby Cycling Alpine Winter Sports (Alpine Skiing, Ski Jumping, Freestyle Skiing, Snowboarding, Nordic Combined, Biathlon) Handball Ice Hockey Athletics (Track and Field) Golf Europeans don’t seem to go full blown crazy on any individual sport, but enjoy almost all of them.
@pinhighdiscdyes If the US market was being captured better, your point would carry more weight. It's certainly the best argument to use, though, so no shade for that. In the current disc golf atmosphere, where American pros are unwilling to travel and the European talent is vastly increasing, failing to position themselves appropriately would be a huge misstep for the DGPT. The European market has significantly lower barriers to entry for fans. It is a business no-brainer to be there and start planning for the future of the Euro Tour.
@@michaelmaniloff9297 we’re talking about growing the sport. The sport grows by getting new eyes on it which is primarily accomplished online, not by the already dedicated fans who watch in person.
This episode really brought out a lot of TRUTHS of the world. Brodie’s opening take, Disc Golf is for the people, ‘athletes’ will play disc golf when there is money in it, getting really good at any sport takes more than just being an athlete, Europe has a better culture to support non top tear sports, (by the way, Formula 1 is next after soccer,) BOGO is the best and safest way to get more fans and more spectators is important for exposure -and to make it look cooler on ‘tv.’ Etc etc. This episode also actually got right the extra banter after and beside the competitive question answering to flush out topics. (Which is hard to do and hard to Make happen.)
Perfect example of Brodie’s final point is McBeth. I can’t believe he wasn’t mentioned! He has stated that he was at a crossroads between pursuing his baseball future or playing competitive disc golf! Boom.
That’s exactly how I describe it Jake. It’s like hiking and playing a sport at the same time. Let’s be real too, why didn’t anyone mention Brodie should have played Copenhagen with Uli?
I appreciate Brodie being more than willing to give rebuttals to other arguments or answers to the questions in the first place from the Pro perspective but man, I’m kind of sick of him saying stuff is stupid, or dumb. That’s now how you debate anything. Quit saying people are stupid and just tell them their opinion is wrong because….. the people on the panels are there because they are able to give good and researched arguments not because they are idiots. Disrespecting someone’s intelligence is NEVER the way to have a debate.
You don’t get events in Cali because your state is ungodly expensive to do anything in. Hate to make this political but if your state was better governed maybe the tour would come
Funny how disc golf needs to grow, but then many fans are against Europe and European players are expected to travel to the US, but then US players don't need to travel If the Eu tour gets bigger you get double the content, people are just against EU because US wants to dominate Give the players different options, if the EU tour is as important for the season certain US players will come over to play their tour in the EU as well if the courses favor their skill set Edit: If it truly is so easy then the US players will travel there next year, because imagine being top 20 in the world and noticing that only 2 of them are participating Of course you would go over there, suddenly everyone is in Europe (as long as the schedule makes more sense)
I go to the PDX Open so I can play the courses, which costs just a little more than a pass, and it includes a general admission pass. Interactions with players is the other aspect that adds value. I don't think I'd pay just to watch or visit vendors alone.
As far as growing the sport, I live in a suburb of Dallas.... I only found disc golf because of Brodie's stuff on RU-vid. For the past couple years, I have been hooked (thanks again to Brodie) I have bought a basket, discs, and tons of stuff to support my favorite players... Having said that, aside from what I personally seek out, I never see or hear anything about disc golf or their events other than when I am actively looking. What's the best solution, not sure. But Brodie, Foundation, and all the other content creators are a great start!
I just bought the most expensive DG ticket I've ever bought. Finnish Nationals. 4 day "Max VIP". Access to special stands, disc, right to follow any card I want at the course, right to play the course after MPO has finished (we have approx 20h daylight early July) etc etc.. €99 for whole tournament. This how its done. Oh, and if you want to come and watch without special perks? Just come, it's free ✌️
Sneak in a little “old school” on the panel, maybe thediscgolfguy, or Ian Anderson? Ironically it would probably end up being a fresh perspective on topics.🤷♀️
So had an idea on the tour stop question... RELEGATION!!! Soccer teams get bounced for finishing last, what if the weakest tour stop (judged by attendance or some other metric) gets pushed down to qualifer stop the following year, and a lower tier event that showed up big gets promoted to pro tour stop? Rally the regional fanbases to earn their event, could be fun. Or a disaster
No one said anything about Calvin being so consistent in the most talented era of disc golf. Put him in older eras his win counts are likely way higher
I think this talk about your events being too expensive is silly. I can go for $20 . We spend $80-$200 for a crappy concert seat. I think the value is very high for DGPT events.
Brodie even if you aren't cashing and not making cuts your insight is still good. Even if I don't agree with everything you say this show would not be as entertaining without you. One thing that kinda irked me about Goose winning the 303 is that he is already has a tour card and it is supposed to be a "Q" series where people earn a tour card. So people that already have one could take away from someone that could earn one. However though sometimes you have a history of playing an event, and the 303 is an event that has been going on for a long time and is a big Colorado event. On the same topic though Joe Rovere isn't trying to get on the tour (he could play on it if he wanted to) and he placed second. So it is kinda conflicting
I'd gladly show you my notes to see that I only have a handful of bullet points, and that's about it. The only thing I intentionally read was the PDGA's official stance on expert opinion for determining par. I wanted to emphasize how they had it written. I even apologized in the moment for reading that one snippet. This is something that just about everyone on the show has done, including most of the top panelists.
lets not forget the winner only made $4k… if disc golf is sooo big in europe how come the one event in Denmark could only get $4k in sponsor winnings???
Don't forget that this concept of a DGPT Elite Series event is new over there. Just like with the US, as the market is established and sponsors see that coverage is improving, they are more likely to get involved. Rather than casting events like Copenhagen aside because the "top talent wasn't there," we should be praising it for what went well and constructively discussing how it can grow and improve next year. Basically, let's shift our focus from lazy negativity to growth focused positivity.
I think its hard to compare crowds in Europe and crowds in America. Europe is a much smaller place comparatively. I think it's a lot easier to get a crowd to events in Europe.
That's a great point! The other thing is that they tried out a system where tickets to the Copenhagen Open were free for general admission. This is where I think Hunter has one of the strongest points about not monetizing the admission and instead monetizing the crowd after they are there with food, special events, etc.
Gary’s value argument is so disingenuous to the casual fan.. which is what Brodie was asking. His first response of I’ve spent money on stupider things is so terrible it’s funny
I'm curious how you felt it was disingenuous. Brodie was suggesting that I remove my "fanship" of the sport to make a judgement on the value of attending an event. When we talk about the idea of perceived value, it's completely subjective to the person determining the value. A "casual fan" as you said might not see the same perceived value at an event that I would considering I'm a bit more die-hard than most. To you, the product might be worth $25, which is totally fine. The same product might be worth $50 in my eyes, which is totally fine. I'm sure we could find something that you're passionate about that would be worth a lot more to you than it would be to me. That's where my point about spending money comes from. I've dropped way too much money on stuff that others would think is ridiculous, but to me and my perceived value, it was worth it. Brodie's argument was more disingenuous by assuming that all fans think the same thing. I was suggesting that value is different for every single person. If anything my argument was more inclusive of all fan types as opposed to lumping everyone together. Until the pro tour can understand how to capture fans with different perceived values of the event, they will never get people to come out in the same way that the European market does.
Well I’m from Utah and went to Jonesboro and spent 190 on vip pass and will probably never do that again even though I had a blast and got to meet and talk with my sports hero Matty O But after my ticket price and then food and buying some discs I spent a ton of money If dgpt wants to grow eliminate any tournament that have multiple in one state and and make more in states that don’t have them
There are a few par 6 holes in golf too…..it happens, even in disc golf. Just don’t make it the norm, but here and there is okay. Brodie as a golfer, should know this….come on man. “The United States has about two dozen par 6 holes, though they are very rare. The USGA recommends a par of 6 for any hole longer than 570 yards, taking into account prevailing slope and other factors that affect average shot distance. The USGA says a par-6 hole is over 576 yards off the red tees and over 691 yards off the black ones.”
Terrible take from trevor saying that some pitchers have gotten to where they have soley based on “arm strength” and they didn’t have to work very hard , this is lazy thinking, Trevor any pitcher who throws over 90 MPH has put in a whole lot of time in the WEIGHT ROOM, MORE SPECIFICALLY THEIR LEG AND CORE STRENGTH ( REMEMBER THE MOST POWERFUL 3 JOINTS IN THE HUMAN BODY are ankle, knee and hip)
AM I WRONG IN THINKING I REMEMBER PROS BEING BROKE INTO AND TOWED WHILE IN CALIFORNIA, PLUS HAVING TO DOWNLAOD THE POOP APP TO DODGE THE HUMAN POO IN THE STREETS. THAT MIGHT HAVE HAD SOEMTHING TO DO WITH NOT HAVING PROTOUR EVENTS THERE.
Brodie's soccer example sucks sweaty chocolate balls. Yeah, more of top 10 players were @ LVC vs Denmark, but there was a LOT more 1000+ players in Denmark. HECK YEAH you are allowed to, you even should, say that Europeans should follow US soccer, if the day ever comes when there are more world top 100 soccer players competing in the US than there are in Europe 😂😂😂
Anthony Bodanza practices for a year and is playing pro tour events. Ya, anyone can play disc golf. Do you think Bodanza can practice the same with ball golf and get on an amateur tour? No chance. Good question for a future debate. Are disc golf pro tour athletes professional athletes? Are disc golf pro tour FPA athletes professional athletes?
To expand on brodies copy golf rant, restrict players to a certain kind of throw, stance or disc selection like 1speeds only from bunkers and zero pump fakes or practice swings while throwing from a bunker/hazard area.
@shamanschlong and just saying +1 stroke when landing in a bunker is cool? Landing in a sandtrap in ball golf isn't an automatic +1 stroke, it does however take skill to get up and down from
