Hydraulic vs Solid Lifters: The Redux!-Engine Masters Preview Episode 48 

This was always one of my favorite shows. Sorry they took it away. Big loss to the RU-vid community.

Guys let me clear a few things up for you. I had had experience with both for my daily driver LS3 stroker. Because hydraulic roller camshafts have come such a long way over the years the power differences are not huge anymore till you get over 7000+rpm. What the dyno doesn't tell you is how they perform and drive. A solid roller not only does it sound better and more crisp, it also more responsive, revs cleaner and quicker at any given rpm. There is less delay also. If you were to fit an equivalent small/medium size hydraulic camshaft then convert those specs to a solid, not only will you pick up more power and torque but it will hold that power and torque to the red line with less drop off. Plus, down the 1/4 mile there are also gains. You will be quicker because of the more aggressive ramp rates. Cam motion has caught onto this with their low lash solid roller camshafts which are designed for street use. The lobes are not too aggressive but they will outperform any hydraulic roller lobe out there. Once you go solid roller and experience it, you will not want to go back to a hydraulic,

I would’ve thought the gains would be better for the trade out. I’ll stick with my hydraulic lifters

The Brule is back! Another piece of engine knowledge that I’ll never use but was immensely satisfying to learn. The Roadkill family of shows are worth the MT subscription alone.

Appreciate you guys not leaving us hanging on throttle up like you normally do. Thumbs up from me.

Guy reminds me of Robert Duvall hahaha

Solid lifters provide more accurate valve timing and follow the camshaft lobe profile better, especially at higher rpm's. There is a lag with hyd lifters because of oil temp and viscosity. I would've thought the gains would be greater, to be honest.

Good video about why certain valve train parts need to be changed from time to time. Much appreciated.

When I was a H.S. kid I owned a '70 Mustang Mach I with a 351 Cleveland. My Dad was an Engineer out at Cape Canaveral and we liked working on cars and we were going to build a high H.P. Cleveland engine. My Dad spoke with a High Po Machine shop in town and the manager informed him they had a used Dyatona Nascar 351 Cleveland Engine for sale that would probably save us some time and money. My Dad bought it and we took it home and started tearing it down and it surprised us both when we pulled the heads/lifters...it was a solid lifer engine but the end of the lifters that touched the cam lobes had mushroomed shaped heads. We learned that was a NASCAR secret at the time that some of the builders were using to cut down on friction as they weren't allowed to use roller lifters at the time. The engine turned out to be a beast...4 bolt main that appeared to have the Windsor crankshaft journals/rods but definitely the Cleveland heads with some crazy high ported exhaust ports. We did a cheap rebuild just honing and replacing rings/bearings and blue printed what we could and put an edelbrock manifold on her with a holley 1100 mech double pumper...with just minimal tuning the engine pulled 515 B.H.P. on the machine shop dyno.

Thank's for keeping the distributor stumble thing in. That never happen's to me. Miss these dyno rm, proof in the pudding thing's...

THANK YOU SO MUCH. GREAT VIDEO AND EDUCATION. THANKS FOR SHARING.

More stress on longer pushrods. I would recommend anyone THAT does these things think about pushrod size and material. Love the VIDEOS!!!

Excellent production quality

I thought I read a while back that they qualify hydraulic cams by using solid lifters, and lashing them at .003-.006 in. But I’m not sure if they were talking flat tappet or roller. Quality components make all the difference as well. Thank you for another great video from the dyno gods.

Good this settled my argument about if solid lift rollers have the same “ping” as a regular solid lift (higher/quieter engine sound)

I only subscribed to this channel for these guys. But since its no loger on youtube im out.

0.002" gauges are not far from pushing a string. For a 3/8" stud, I think 7 1/2 degrees turn past zero gets you there - I've done it with a torque angle gauge, but getting a solid anchor point was a little trouble [I need to build a jig that bolts into valve cover holes if I ever do that again]. I helps to have a REALLY good feel on where zero lash is, and that varies person to person.

Is it true solid lifter require a lot to maintain? I want to add a solid cam and lifters to my 350 sbc. It just sounds AMAZING! And i guess ill need new rods because the lifter are shorter.

I agree with AT down below, my guess would have been that the solid lifters follow the cam profile more accurately as well. I would think that the hydraulics could have a little performance variation between each one due to internal tolerances, heat , rpm ,etc.

I wonder how much their views have dropped since getting rid of their shows on youtube. People keep saying they want the episodes back on youtube for free. It's not like they aren't getting money for it, they still get advertising money after all. Yet they won't listen to what the people want. Eventually people will stop caring about the shows. Meanwhile, grassroot car channels that run on youtube alone are booming and leaving motor trend in the dust. Roadkill and Engine Masters were two shows that I genuinely looked forward to seeing new episodes of, and would often watch on the first day. Sometimes twice even with a friend. I know they exist on motor trend's website, but I'm not about to whip out my credit card for it. I'll just keep watching other channels on youtube.

Is there a kit for a big block to change over , looking for the super simple setup for my 502 big block 589 lift torque monster

Great respect for these guys vast knowledge. Lots of good comments in the comments section too

Having just bought some light Nascar lifters for a solid lifter [flat tappet] cam it will be interesting to see if they make any difference

I agree with anonymous 70909. The point is higher revs without valve float

the reason for solid lifters is to prevent float at higher rpms.

just curious what size engine is this,,383 chev or 350.

what was the cam profile, did this on my 383 w .585 lift hyd cam

Wish these shows was on t,v .

For that gain, I’ll stick to my hydraulic....not worth going to solid for the troubles

So 9hp & 3.6FtLbs is all the difference? Think I'm gonna stick with the trouble free maintenance of the Hyd Roller in my street /strip ride.

Please do a inline 6 4.0 jeep motor I want to hope mine up but there is no good info.

Why? Cause the lifter doesn't compress hence greater valve lift

The solid lifter combo will make more power because the valves will open quicker and the area "under the curve" will be wider. Even if lift and duration are equal. Especially with a roller. Hydraulics have gotten way better over the years and the difference on street bound, pump gas engines is negligible.

can u make a video testing supercharger vs. turbocharger?

I think of a solid roller cam as high RPM and accurate valve timing specially for high compression motors hydraulics make a good Street lifter

Is there a video explaining why?

Anything that Steve Brule is in, I'll watch.

So going to the lighter solid lifters the valves springs wouldn't need to be replaced. Giving up very little duration and lift for more valve train stability.

Been running my hydraulic roller with solid roller lifters for the past 4 years with no issues. Cold lash at .005". Did it mostly because of the high hydraulic roller lifter failures.

Re the zero lash initial adjustment: Suppose you lashed it at 0.008, then checked how far you had to turn the wrench to get back to zero lash. Suppose it was a full turn. Then you'd adjust to zero lash, open it up 1/4 turn and it should be very close to 0.002 lash.

Old video but only good info on here Do I need better rockers or Or upgraded ones to run solid lifters?

No bleed off at upper rpm range with solids

My number 3 and 5 cylinder in my sbc 383 seem to require longer pushrods than all the other cylinders. Literally a full additional turn on the rocker cups to get them within the .019 spec. I have 7.900 in pushrods for all the other cylinders but those two require like an 8.10 to keep it under the two turns for these shaft rockers. Any idea why this is? It's a solid roller cam.

What motor are they working with here?

I would like to see the same test but with a better hydraulic roller lifter like a compcams short travel lifter

What happened to full length episode on roadkill

Wats the specs on the can

My question is which one is more reliable? Which cam lobes go flat first?

Could you give me a solid roller camshaft recommendation, for a bracket racing drag car? It's for a 427 sbc, 10.5:1 compression, AFR Competition Ported 210cc cylinder heads 2.08/1.60, super victor intake, 3000lb car, 4.56 gear, TH350, TH400, or a Powerglide transmission. Not sure yet what transmission to use.

Are bushed better than pin in a 550hp motor. Ford 363w

My EA888 engine has hydraulic lifters but the piston isn't the it that reciprocates, the centre pivot is.

Regarding solid lifters, I know people talk about having to "check and adjust" them regularly. I ran them in a 327 back in the day, and after about 3 "checks" they stopped changing on the lash. Realize that, for example the old Chevrolet straight-six "stovebolt" motors (i.e., 216, 235) had solid lifters - that's all they had back in the day . . . well, they never had to have their valves "checked and adjusted" beyond break-in, and maybe once after that. They are really quite robust and not the problem child some paint them out to be . . .

So you can put soild lifters on a hy cam . Would that work on a flat tappet cam as well

can you convert to solid lifters using the same cam, or do you need a different cam?

Wish they would compare an old school solid flat to Hyd rollers. There is a lot of power in a solid flat tappet.

No fair, I want to see a solid grind cam swap also.

I adjust solid tappet valve lash while the motor's running & warm. Tighten them up until they're quiet, then one at a time loosen them to tick and back to pin point on quiet, them loosen them all by a quarter turn. And let'r Rip!

Takeaway should be that the solids BARELY made more power... Ima call that a victory for the hydraulics all factors considered.

I've ran both on the street solid lifters all the way for anything over 6000 rpm way more power

But how many pulls before the hydraulic lifter fades away?....drag racers use solid for a reason. Might have to reset gap a few times but it beats $375. every few runs.

Well, don't stop there, "Keep learning!"

I did not know that Robert Duvall was a mechanic too.

How can setting lash tight hot cause hung valves cold? Setting lash tight cold and when hot, then maybe yes, the valve will be hung open? thanks for the great videos.

More money and work than I'm willing to spend for 9 hp.

my guess is air in the oil loss of lift on hydraulic lifters.

you guys mentioned crane cams, are they still in business?

Why... really? More stable valvetrain. Before the valve is completely open the lobe has moved and pressure released so valve doesn't always open completely and is slower to open.

Hey motortrend: didn't you guys assured the community (by freiberger himself), that all "old" #roadkill episode will be free to watch. How does it come, that ALL episodes are "locked" on your site and now almost all "original" youtube episodes got taken down/switched to private?

How does a solid lifter oil the rockers?

Roadkill! That's what we need! That's what got you your following in the beginning!

I wanna see Yamaha do a skunk works project to make a V8, at least 5.0L. No competition's info available, just their own information. You know they would make it original and make to rev.

The new on demand app is even worse! Anyone having streaming issues to a Samsung Smart TV? Only my chromecast TV's are showing up now. #roadkill

Longitvity would be choosing pushrod hardness, if one bends save your motor vs one kissing...🙊🔧📐📌🐉🧤🙏

Im interested to see how a flat tappet cam would do with hydraulic roller lifters.

There's a reason many asian manufacturers use solid rollers on stock vehicles, this isn't hard to believe at all

Still waiting on a coyote build/test

NO ASSEMBLY LUBE??

Pump up vs bleed down, vs float.. Who knows? I can think of a reason bottoming lifter might prevent pump up as well as bleed down but I don't know which is true. Either way hydraulics suck. As in they suck your power. Anyway in this episode Steve zero lashes the valves assuming that they loosen when it heats up. Probably not a bad assumption as the lifter Valley may be cooler than the water jackets if the ventilation is good and the heads are aluminum and expand more than the pushrods.. But one thing to consider especially for the marine guys who may run iron heads to avoid a closed cooling system is that the valve seats may wear and valves may tulip and tighten up that cold engine lash so maybe a couple thou lash isn't a bad idea.

I have a 1991 Dodge truck it has to 318 it is a hydraulic roller cam I do not understand this and why can't I use a hydraulic cam if it's hydraulic roller cam

more power, but relaibility and smoothness goes down...

Stable

I see you cant watch the shows anymore for free you have to sign up. That really blows now

Last time I set valves too tight I burned and exhaust vakve

Can I use solid roller on hydraulic roller cam?

So... can you actually run solid lifters on a hydraulic cam? If not, why? Can you run hydraulic lifters on a solid cam? If not, why? What's the difference between the two types of cams that prohibits switching solid for hydraulic or vice-versa? Different profile? Different shape of the lobes? Different metal composition?

I watched this and the only conclusion I could come to is how much more sense overhead cams make.

Not worth the 10hp gains and 3 foot pound of torque. For those that can't watch . The base motor made 501hp & 471 tq . With the solid rollers it made 511hp & 474 tq. To me the added cost of longer push rods and solid lifters its not worth the 10hp gain. If starting from scratch I would consider it .

So basically it’s a 5 to 10 hp gain switching to solid. Good for racing not for everyday driving in my eyes. Idk bout you but I’m not adjusting valves on a monthly basis while I’m driving to the beach or work in my chevelle. I will stay with hydraulic.

i don't blame the guys on the show, i blame the corporate.

I would hypothesize that the hydraulic lifter compresses and loses a little bit of lift. While oil doesn't compress very well. Steel bodied lifters compress even less. So I would bet the dynamic valve lift numbers are maybe 10-20 tho more with solid lifters. Working as a race car mechanic we tend to test strange things. We once quantified the difference in valve lift between rockers of different designs to see if they varied in lift, as we were using very high spring rate dual valve springs. We ended up losing a surprising amount of lift at the valve from flex in the rocker arms using semi static evaluation. I bet if you put this on a spintron you could get better data. Base principle is isothermal compressibilities, oil is up to about 3x more compressible than water...

Solid lifters just aren’t worth it, depending on application of course.

Considering the lack of reliability on the solid rollers not worth the trade off for a few horsepower. You also lose idle vacuum with the solid roller which can be a pain on the street.

Steve dolchichzwzchsss walked by my house today and he kicked my dog

hi'

Yonke

The effect of lash on warm vs cold is actually opposite on some applications. For example, solid lifter over head cam bucket set ups. They tend to have less lash when warm.

Rotating Mass

Hey

🤯

And the fat street racers say: I need to make this car lighter to go faster, lol