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Hydrogen Home Storage. Could this be a game changer? 

Just Have a Think
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The Hydrogen Economy is a buzz phrase that has been doing the rounds in recent months, and it seems to have provoked quite a bit of contentious debate. Some folks are extremely optimistic about the positive impact that green hydrogen can have on our energy systems. Others think hydrogen might be a back door for methane gas producers. But a new energy storage system now puts green hydrogen production firmly into the hands of the consumer. On site, in their own home. Safely and reliably. Could this one be a game changer?
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Research links
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• LAVO Launch Brand Film
CSIRO research paperwww.energynetw...
COAG Energy Council research paper
www.industry.g...
University of Melbourne research paper
media.bze.org.a...
Climate Works Australia research paper
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Science Direct research paper
re100.eng.anu.e...
University of New South Wales research paper
www.ceem.unsw.e...
Institute for Sustainable Futures research project
www.uts.edu.au...
One Earth Impact Report
web.stanford.ed...
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30 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 1,6 тыс.   
@tronicit
@tronicit 3 года назад
I live in Australia. We invested in roof top solar like millions of other Australians. Unfortunately governments on the left and right have overseen the price we get for our solar energy from energy companies plummet. It’s ironic that Australia is now wasting vast amounts of renewable energy because governments on both sides of politics can’t work together to capture this energy. While I’m a fan of renewables, the fact is they don’t provide enough baseline power, in-particular during the night when most homes use most of their power.
@garneybaker
@garneybaker 3 года назад
It seems politics is the problem on many levels in our societies. Politicized science and health, is contributing to divisionism and denial, leading us towards an environmental disaster.
@za7v9ier
@za7v9ier 3 года назад
heck I even read a report that the government is charging Australians for exporting this green electricity back to the grid!
@j.pgoodwin9020
@j.pgoodwin9020 3 года назад
The Politicians are just the visible actors, it is the ones behind that curtain that do the bribing, sorry campaign contributions that are the bad actors along with certain arguably evil media organisations that manipulate public perceptions and opinions
@lozoft9
@lozoft9 3 года назад
That's why gov'ts should be funding geothermal R&D post-haste. If we can accelerate 10 years of development into 5 years, that will be all we'll need for the foreseeable future.
@JSM-bb80u
@JSM-bb80u Месяц назад
There is more wind during night and winter. Australia should invest more on wind. Australia has enough solar energy already. They should be investing more on wind hydrogen and batteries.
@lucasvillalobos6809
@lucasvillalobos6809 3 года назад
The energy ministery of my country (Chile), has started to invest a lot in green hydrogen at the north, not sure how it will develop in the next years
@sanansa4567
@sanansa4567 3 года назад
hopefully it will work out better then the management of your lithium resources. I saw a video where they didn't want to have experienced engineers from outside Chile assist and it is not being run effectively. Instead of hiring outside firms (for fear of being ripped off). I don't know why they just don't hire individual consultants
@lucasvillalobos6809
@lucasvillalobos6809 3 года назад
@@sanansa4567 because the country is ruled by clowns that only want money and status, they don't care about growing or helping people
@vrillx
@vrillx 3 года назад
@@lucasvillalobos6809 All countries are run by greedy power hungry clowns ....its what defines the 21 st century...
@antondegroot6061
@antondegroot6061 3 года назад
@@vrillx It defines all of human history. I'm afraid its some sort of law of nature. Power hungry clowns are those who have the drive and ethics needed to rise to the top of society, so they are always our leaders. Democracy is supposed to stop that, but clearly it isn't working. We need to rethink how our system/society selects the people that rise to the top.
@-LightningRod-
@-LightningRod- 3 года назад
it is indeed the HydroCarbons attempt to remain relevant and a financial force in Canada as evidenced by the Alberta Politicians statements that hydrogen technology will move forward to ensure jobs and a future for Canadas Oil and Gas Industries regardless of cost or viability.
@mrhickman53
@mrhickman53 3 года назад
This is the first application of the hydrogen cycle that has an overall efficiency that I find palatable.
@mrhickman53
@mrhickman53 3 года назад
@bk_16 Fair enough. I am also sceptical but they have at least piqued my interest. My impression is that batteries will win the daily cycle but if the company can provide a cycle efficiency of close to 50% I would at least entertain the idea of incorporating such technology for longer outages. For areas that regularly have winter storm-related outages, coupling the waste heat energy into the home would improve overall efficiency The conundrum is that at the current price, several days worth of battery storage is economically competitive. Once one goes to 1/4 charge/discharge cycle per day the battery lifetime is approaching comparable performance to what the company is stating for the fuel cell. My desire to see at least 50% cycle efficiency is the collected solar energy is better sold to the grid than be used in a low-efficiency storage mechanism from a global warming perspective. We should prioritize more efficient processes until renewable energy has expanded to meet our full energy needs.
@jonmichaelgalindo
@jonmichaelgalindo 3 года назад
I'd like to be hopeful, but realistically, batteries are just getting better and better. They're already cheaper, with better efficiency, and they'll have longer lifetimes soon enough. I just don't see hydrogen technology catching up.
@mrhickman53
@mrhickman53 3 года назад
@@jonmichaelgalindo I tend to agree with you. I need to get off my search for seasonal storage and come to terms that renewable capacity generation capacity needs to be sized such that storage is at weather scale, not seasonal scale. Of course, the company is not promoting their product as such, but I was considering metal-hydride storage as an alternative to packing pipelines and underground formations with natural gas prior to peak season as what now occurs.
@hamsterminator
@hamsterminator 3 года назад
@@jonmichaelgalindo Battery technology has a lot of hard limits on what is possible, and those advances you mention are going to gain comparatively small increases in energy storage vs other mediums. Hydrogen won't need to try hard to catch up once battery tech plateaus, which it looks set to in the not too distant future.
@jonmichaelgalindo
@jonmichaelgalindo 3 года назад
@@hamsterminator That doesn't sound right. There are countless chemical systems that can cycle between differences in electrical bonds, possibly even systems that improve with use instead of degrading, and millions never yet synthesized. A bacterial battery would be free to manufacture, etc. I have never heard of any theoretical maximums other than 100% efficiency.
@MsK-xm7vw
@MsK-xm7vw 3 года назад
Thank you for everything you research for us. I'm on a fixed income and severely tight budget, and although I can't afford to financially donate, I spread the word about your channel all the time. Keeping us informed about changes that will overwhelm us over the next 20 years will be paramount, hopefully you'll be here to explain it all as we progress in an honest, easily comprehensive way. 💖
@notahotshot
@notahotshot 2 года назад
"It takes more energy input from the fossil fuels than you get out. You can't make this up." All hydrogen production requires more energy put in than you get out. There is absolute no way around this law of physics.
@davidrossi1486
@davidrossi1486 2 года назад
Precisely. That’s why the sensible are concentrating on hydrogen as a storage method. Use as a motive fuel Only makes sense when extremely high energy densities are required and gasoline is outlawed.
@ronkirk5099
@ronkirk5099 3 года назад
As I've come to expect from your videos, this was yet another very interesting and exciting development in the green energy industry. Enjoy your week holiday!
@JustHaveaThink
@JustHaveaThink 3 года назад
Thank you. Happy Easter to you too :-)
@mrkokolore6187
@mrkokolore6187 3 года назад
Home storage is a good idea even without windmills or solar panels as they can make the home independent for the times where there is neither wind nor sunshine to rely on or in the worst case a blackout.
@mrkokolore6187
@mrkokolore6187 3 года назад
@Claire H Hydrogen It´s always nice to meet like-minded people.
@colconn57
@colconn57 3 года назад
@Hunzo77 How would you get water in a "Texas style" emergency?? I'm guessing those people with battery storage and solar panels probably did quite well without the need for hydrogen.
@thelonelyrogue3727
@thelonelyrogue3727 3 года назад
@@colconn57 I have a well... and putting it in was a lot cheaper than buying energy storage.
@markplott4820
@markplott4820 3 года назад
Mr Kokolore - WRONG, no wants a HINDENBURG in their Neighborhood , because it takes just ONE Hydrogen fuel cell to set the Whole Neighborhood on FIRE. SWB - Solar, Wind, Battery is the Cheapest form of Energy on Earth , you are BETTER off just getting SOLAR and a HOME lion Battery.
@mrkokolore6187
@mrkokolore6187 3 года назад
@@markplott4820 How on earth is a single hydrogen fuel cell(the cell is just a piece of metal where the hydrogen passes through) supposed to set an entire neighborhood on fire? Even if it was a big tank it would most likely only damage the house it is in as hydrogen isn´t napalm sticking on other houses. The worst that could (most unlikely) happen is the ignition of a close neighboring house that's it.
@Firebuck
@Firebuck 3 года назад
Without knowing which metal is hydrated, it's hard to know if this is just trading one problem for another one down the road.
@danyoutube7491
@danyoutube7491 3 года назад
True; presumably it will not be one of the more abundant and commonplace metals or else the hydrogen absorbing property of it would surely have been appreciated long ago. In which case, it could be something that is in short supply.
@jimmyb1451
@jimmyb1451 3 года назад
@@danyoutube7491 I posses none of the requisite knowledge to hazard a guess, however, when welding, low hydrogen rods are used because of hydrogen embrittlement of steels and iron. Perhaps it's not such an exotic material?
@nicholaskelly6375
@nicholaskelly6375 3 года назад
At a guess I would presume titanium is the most likely candidate. This isn't new technology and the idea has been kicking around for years. The trouble is that like a battery it takes time to charge and discharge. If the manafacture have managed to improve the technology then this could be a real "Game Changer" The main advantage is you don't have to store pressurised hydrogen.
@nicholaskelly6375
@nicholaskelly6375 3 года назад
@Claire H Hydrogen I am not surprised by that. As various metal hydrides have the ability to take up hydrogen. I only mentioned titanium because it is relatively cheap like aluminium. Certainly this is a good idea and I hope that it becomes reality.
@msvaughan
@msvaughan 3 года назад
I think so, posted a comment saying that in the future if this is used as a permanent power source there would be an issue down the road where there is too much oxygen in the atmosphere instead of carbon dioxide. Besides, when this thing is running, just don't have a naked flame nearby!!!... boom
@MrPikkoz
@MrPikkoz 3 года назад
*The devil is the details* , competitive vs battery? hardly : -The warranty of 10 years and 30 years lifespan /20.000 cycles is on the *metal hydride only* , basically the "sponge" inside the tanks , the least expensive part , you do however need to consider parts that will die first and require maintenance like : the fuel cell ( *very* expensive) has a lifespan of 30.000h, that's 3.5 years always on but they say on "normal" usage it should last around 10 years but then it means basically turning it completely off for 2/3 of the day not producing H2 or electricity (basically an expensive backup generator) . then you have the water filtration system , I can't tell the lifespan but as for any water filtration systems, it does require frequent, periodic maintenance . Also the "small" 5kWh battery is tasked to be discharged to 1C (5kW) than the typical 0.5 discharge rate of battery storage systems that will result in a shorter lifespan (stated as 10-15 years vs around 20-25 of battery storage systems) in fact on their website they state : " An annual maintenance will likely be recommended by a qualified technician to undertake the general inspection and replacement of any consumables like filters, coolant levels and electrolyser fluids etc. which is dependent on environmental factors and usage patterns " AKA : you will need our technicians to inspect and replace stuff every year on you expenses or you'll lose the warranty and get the filtration stuffed up and the fuel cell seized (degraded by element poisoning ) within one year . I can't understand of LAVO can claim their system roundtrip efficiency is "way above 50%" when they use Nestack fuel cell and their best efficiency conversion of H2 to electricity is 56% , so if you take a 20% loss of the electrolyzer you have in the best case scenario a round trip efficiency of 45% and this without taking account of the AC/DC inverter , battery ,hydride sponge and the water filtration system losses . Now let's compare with battery systems : 1x LAVO : 30.000 austrialian $ onboard energy=40kWh , max output 5kW , energy useable after DC/AC = *20kWh* (i'm generous), generate noise, maintenance required ,consumable parts , requires a good amount of space and it's heavy 560kg with the tanks included . 2x Powerwall : 26.600 AU$ onboard energy=27kWh max peak power 14kW , energy useable after the DC/AC inverter= *25.6kWh* , virtually silent, no maintenance required ,take less space , and weight less than half of a LAVO system .
@iaindowling8993
@iaindowling8993 3 года назад
The metal sponge is the way Acetylene is stored.
@xdoods
@xdoods 3 года назад
I was thinking this, but if the term "hydride" is an actual chemical term, then there's little chance it's anything other than an alkali metal, which leaves about five candidates. When you factor in cost and abundance, then that narrows it down to three, and considering prices of lithium, that would bring it to two, cheapest and lightest of which is sodium or an alloy of NaK. I'd bet my GME stocks on it.
@Leopold5100
@Leopold5100 3 года назад
thanks, didn't realise Acetylene was absorbed into a metal
@tedf1471
@tedf1471 3 года назад
I thought Acetylene was dissolved in an Acetone / kieselguhr slurry?
@iaindowling8993
@iaindowling8993 3 года назад
@@tedf1471 yes in a metal sponge and the cylinder should never be laid on it’s side because of the Acetone
@stuffak4540
@stuffak4540 3 года назад
I could be wrong but I think the filling is more like a porous cementitious product. It used to be asbestos, but no longer I think.
@Devo491
@Devo491 3 года назад
We've been using acetylene dissolved in a carrier to make it safe and manageable, for 100 years. This is probably just the first of many hydrogen storage systems using this principle.
@j.pgoodwin9020
@j.pgoodwin9020 3 года назад
CSIRO has a patented storage as Ammonia, hydrogen is stripped out with a special membrane filter
@donalain69
@donalain69 3 года назад
Probably just the first to patent it, so they can make money from blocking it for the rest of the world. Capitalism really does everything anyhow possible to end humanity.
@stebarg
@stebarg 3 года назад
@@donalain69 True! The sick idea of trade is the root cause of ALL problems!!! Patents and money are tools to destroy the planet. Even the richest suffer!!! Wake up people and stop supporting bullshit!!!
@dnomyarnostaw
@dnomyarnostaw 3 года назад
@@donalain69 Wow. Conspiracist trolls at work. They have already licensed it to three countries including South Korea.
@ClickToPreview
@ClickToPreview 3 года назад
@@stebarg I assume you farm your own food, dug your own well, make your own clothes and shoes, and built your own house and every stick of furniture with your own hands right? "Trade" is a "sick idea" that is the root cause of all problems? Methinks thou doth protest too much.
@sherwoodfirewise3182
@sherwoodfirewise3182 2 года назад
2 Thinks! First, my wife has chemical sensitivities so I made a hydrogen cook stove (Hindenberg I with modified natural gas range) and we cooked with H2 for years. The off-grid PV system electrolyzed water and stored H2 gas in an inverted barrel in a larger water filled barrel using only the pressure from the alkaline electrolyzers. We also purchased bottled H2 gas. Results are the chef-preferred "cooking with gas" but with no CO, CO2 pollution. Second, consider "H2 gas blending with CH4" at the home / business. Solar electrolysis H2 combining with natural gas at 10-20% H2 blend can be easily used in all gas appliances with no modifications. Reduced carbon and uses renewable energy to displace fossil fuel for distributed solar fuel at the point of use in residential, commercial and even industrial processes.
@emceeboogieboots1608
@emceeboogieboots1608 3 года назад
Interestingly pretty much all of the state governments in Australia are at odds with the federal government in regards to carbon targets🙄
@idea-shack
@idea-shack 3 года назад
Hydrogen storage in metal hydrides has been around for decades, I've even seen a large system personally in use at my university about a decade ago, feeding PEM fuel cells. This Lavo unit is just a sexy commercial version of very well established tech. The more important question is, why if it's been around for so long, has it not been widely implemented? Probably because fuel cells are generally considered as being too expensive to be practical at the moment, however, if they do become more mainstream, then hydrogen storage in metal hydrides would probably be the preferred choice imho.
@marclawson2536
@marclawson2536 3 года назад
Technology is only considered advancement when it serves capital. "Where will we put our meters?"
@RoadRashSpirit
@RoadRashSpirit 3 года назад
My basic understanding of the metal hydride system is that it requires a high temperature to get the hydrogen back out again, which obviously uses energy which has to initially come from somewhere and will further reduce the efficiency of the whole system. For this reason it is un attractive and I do wonder if LAVO has a new chemical composition that mitigates this. There seems to be no mention of this so if I was a betting man I'd say not, luckily I'm not a betting man and I will watch this space over the next ten years.
@acmefixer1
@acmefixer1 3 года назад
@Nicola Toma The Gencell hydrogen fuel cell system can use ammonia for storing the hydrogen. The byproduct is nitrogen which makes up 79% of what we breathe. And the infrastructure for making ammonia is well established and produces huge amounts, but not green.
@travcollier
@travcollier 3 года назад
Yes, but that well established tech is optimized for different use cases. The landscape has shifted quite a bit with wind and solar costs coming down, so development of versions optimized to serve as "batteries" for that makes sense... And that sort of development/optimization isn't easy. I think where I've heard most excitement interest in metal hydride hydrogen storage in the past was around transport/cars. This application makes more sense to me, though I'm not certain about the fuel cell side of it.
@bozo5632
@bozo5632 3 года назад
Because it doesn't make much sense without home solar or similar, which were very uncommon until recently.
@clivemitchell3229
@clivemitchell3229 3 года назад
So each module stores 10 kWh, and they are removable. So if the modules can be made cheaply enough, an outhouse could store a winter's worth of a Passivhaus-standard energy needs. Bit of a fiddle having to keep changing them but IMHO it's a move in the right direction.
@matthiasmay1977
@matthiasmay1977 3 года назад
It depends on module cost if this would be viable. At least a mechanism for exchanging modules would be quite simple and the capacity could be upscaled easily.
@durwoodmaccool890
@durwoodmaccool890 3 года назад
Or just bigger modules. Might be more practical than swapping modules out. Or swappable modules could be used for powering a vehicle or other mobile device. One big advantage this kind of system offers is long term storage, basically any arbitrary length of time. Batteries aren't real good at holding charge for long periods. Whereas this thing really dosn't have much limit on how long ot could hold energy for.
@EdgeMasterPro
@EdgeMasterPro 3 года назад
Wow so you can fill up the modules abs easily swap them out. If the modules are cheap why not have larger racks of modules.
@ianworthington2324
@ianworthington2324 3 года назад
The video suggested the modules need to be kept pressurised to stop the H leaching out, though perhaps the pressures required aren't too onerous?
@williampierce2034
@williampierce2034 3 года назад
Thanks, good video. I agree with your conclusion. More competetion will lower the costs while improving the designs. Green is improving at an astronomical pace. Yeah!!!
@merlin1346
@merlin1346 2 года назад
whatever system they develop you can rest assured that either it will have a limited life (then you have to buy another) or they will make parts that have to replace, but what they will not allow you to have is a lifelong maintenance free system. Check out the new Hydrogen powered JCB that even gets its H2 from abroad in on-site storage tanks (excellent carbon footprint I must say) I have repeatedly asked them why their new engine is not HOD (Hydrogen On Demand) but have been ignored!
@scoty_does
@scoty_does 3 года назад
This could lead to a real EXPLOSION in home storage.. ;)
@brianfretwell3886
@brianfretwell3886 3 года назад
Well I wouldn't want to store much at home.
@angellestat2730
@angellestat2730 3 года назад
only if the people working in the system are as idiots as you.
@gryph01
@gryph01 3 года назад
Lol
@GamingDad
@GamingDad 2 года назад
1 reason why lithium ion based home batteries scare the shit out of me.
@kyleyoung2464
@kyleyoung2464 Год назад
Its actually safe. Hydrogen tanks can be shot and leak out and not cause a fire.
@SolarizeYourLife
@SolarizeYourLife Год назад
So let's use hydrazine, N2H4, instead...and pass it through a graphene filter...
@market0that
@market0that 3 года назад
I wonder they had considered using the heat from the electroliser as past of the domestic water heating. That would raise the operating efficiency.
@durwoodmaccool890
@durwoodmaccool890 3 года назад
There's an idea.
@petermaceachern4843
@petermaceachern4843 3 года назад
@@durwoodmaccool890 the water inside the units do get hot well normal wet cell hho`s, you could incase a wet cell in moving liquid or pipes around it and use that as a heat source
@nitinmittal213
@nitinmittal213 2 года назад
It is not a continuous process. Once the electricity storage is done, no heat will be produced. I doubt if it would be viable to add the complexity.
@market0that
@market0that 2 года назад
@@nitinmittal213 agreed but given you are creating hydrogen as a fuel to heat the home. This short term heat would be added to the hot water store. It would mean less hydrogen needs to be burned for heat etc. If 30% of the energy is lost to heat using it is a significant boost in efficiency.
@andrewrance
@andrewrance 2 года назад
@@market0that yeah I too love commercial Tri Gen systems! Looking at this system I suspect they already have too many components and potential points of failure, adding more on paper gives economic efficiency gains but I suspect would make the system even more unwieldy and “between” applications and all but impossible to gain domestic market penetration.
@fuseteam
@fuseteam Год назад
i don't get why people are so focussed on how hydrogen is produced, but ignore the environmental impact of producing batteries
@boathemian7694
@boathemian7694 3 года назад
This isn’t new technology and it’s awesome to see it being pursued commercially finally.
@markplott4820
@markplott4820 3 года назад
NOPE, too late . SWB - Solar , Wind, Battery is Already the Cheapest Power on Earth, Displacing Hydrogen, CNG and ALL Fossil fuels.
@richardstubbs6484
@richardstubbs6484 3 года назад
@@markplott4820 solar and wind yes, but batteries are not very environmentally friendly and are expensive ....
@markplott4820
@markplott4820 3 года назад
@@richardstubbs6484 - this is FALSE , home batteries are a good Resourse as they REUSE spent BEV battery from cars , and battery Prices CONTINUE to fall each year. otherwise the Battery ends up in LANDFILL, at the END the Home battery can be RECYCLED and elements Extracted.
@aussie_al
@aussie_al 3 года назад
I would like to know how many of these units have been produced. Its one thing to make something work on a bench but its different story to build at scale.
@EctoMorpheus
@EctoMorpheus 3 года назад
@@markplott4820 hey maybe throw some more capslock in there
@sanjuansteve
@sanjuansteve 3 года назад
Let's put solar panels on every home, business and covered parking rooftop and switch to electric vehicles making nearly everything we do solar powered while completely decentralizing our power supply and empowering everyone as power generation owners. Solar power is CHEAPER and electric vehicles are soon to be CHEAPER to make and already are considerably CHEAPER to maintain and operate, especially if charged from your own solar power. A 3-5 year ROI (return on investment) for a solar array that will generate power for decades is a no-brainer and the panels can even be made locally too. #EndFossilFuels #SwitchToSolar #SwitchToElectric
@byrongsmith
@byrongsmith 3 года назад
Excellent - such a valuable and clear video. Very much appreciated, as someone who pays quite a lot of attention to Scott Morrison's massive climate policy vacuum.
@ralphsammis7330
@ralphsammis7330 2 года назад
Too much intro - too much back ground . Please get to the revolutionary product, then tell what YOU want.
@patrik5123
@patrik5123 3 года назад
I would like some follow-up videos to the New tech you've brought up over the years. New stuff is cool to hear about, but viability is only proven over time and I find it incredibly hard to check up on these things.
@letsgosurfing1786
@letsgosurfing1786 3 года назад
The sad truth is most don't go anywhere, not because of some fossil fuel bogeyman but because an engineering hurdle that has yet to be overcome.
@autohmae
@autohmae 3 года назад
@@letsgosurfing1786 I would be more specific: because they couldn't bring the price down for mass-production or some other mass-production problem.
@boncholio
@boncholio 3 года назад
Good idea!
@phizc
@phizc 3 года назад
The waste heat from the conversion could be used for heating water and the house using a heat pump.
@harryconover289
@harryconover289 3 года назад
Brilliant concept open up a very healthy contest in storage intuitive and inventive product is wait will save humanity dispute politics
@thepyhooyachannel8584
@thepyhooyachannel8584 3 года назад
For me, I'd prefer not to have an explosive gas in my home, especially for the new largely underground infrastructure I have in mind. Hydrogen is just too wasteful, renewable energy directly to batteries makes more sense to me. Could even be home sized gravity batteries.
@IMGreg..
@IMGreg.. 3 года назад
We use natural gas in my area to heat our homes and water so the explosive portion has been a thing for 60 years or more with minimal mishaps. You need to consider life cycle and economies of scale as well for a device like this.
@thepyhooyachannel8584
@thepyhooyachannel8584 3 года назад
@@IMGreg.. Actually there are deaths from explosions in both homes and main pipelines, plus deaths from carbon monoxide, etc. I have gas in my home, but there is a risk. If we are going to change anyway I suggest we choose a safer option, given that better safer options are already available, thats all.
@bknesheim
@bknesheim 3 года назад
Your house is full of explosive gas anyway. It is called oxygen.
@thepyhooyachannel8584
@thepyhooyachannel8584 3 года назад
@@bknesheim Actually, oxygen is not explosive, it is when it reacts with other molecules that it causes an exothermic/oxidative chemical reaction that we call an explosion. Natural gas, plus oxygen, plus an ignition source, that is explosive. As is hydrogen and oxygen
@bknesheim
@bknesheim 3 года назад
@@thepyhooyachannel8584 That is just the same as saying that natural gas is not explosive, because you need oxygen. Titan has a lot of metan, but no oxygen so it acts like water on earth.
@brent3569
@brent3569 3 года назад
Metal hydrides for storing hydrogen have been a known technology since the late 80's
@typhoon743
@typhoon743 3 года назад
But the commercial viability has been lacking. However if countries start putting in carbon tariffs left and right, it may definitely swing. Especially for applications where extremely high heat is required. Carbon free combustion would make a great contribution towards removing a large portion of humanity's green house gas emissions especially smelting, cement clinker production etc...
@LaserGuidedLoogie
@LaserGuidedLoogie 3 года назад
Exactly right, but they are heavy and they get really hot.
@chadlymath
@chadlymath 3 года назад
Exceptional news, while your calculation on the unit featured (designed for commercial or industrial?) may be off as they could have one at a half the size for 20 kWh per hour & also have the price to be $15,000 (to Tesla's $13,300 & 13.5 kWh)... If the argument is it's sufficient for a home unit, & more than one Tesla powerwall would be needed : it's still a good investment argument... I just wonder if one could fuel a Mirai or a fuel cell lawnmower, at home, while they're at it. - Or vent heat - or provide water for showering or what not...
@Martinit0
@Martinit0 3 года назад
If it's patented it's the opposite of "held close to the chest" - in fact, it's then public information
@bknesheim
@bknesheim 3 года назад
They do not have to describe the exact method used to make the storage. They just have to describe how it function. Just have a look at some of the crazy software patents that have been granted.
@multimedia8729
@multimedia8729 3 года назад
@@bknesheim Yes and no. Look at what happened to Pfizer with Viagra - they lost their patent because they did not describe which component was the active one - just some mixture. This resulted in loosing their patent for the active ingrediant - and in generic Viagra. Softwarepatents are a whole different can of worms - and I believe they only work because of a cold war - everybody is holding so many softwarepatents which would disrupt the other side that nobody challenges them.
@bknesheim
@bknesheim 3 года назад
@@multimedia8729 I would say that this is basically what i meant. You have to describe what makes it work, but not how you make the part/ingrediant.
@florinadrian5174
@florinadrian5174 3 года назад
This is not the first time you discuss a technology kept secret by its sellers. To me that's shady as hell. Why does it have to be secret, is it not enough that we have very restrictive IP laws? Or is it magic?
@JoelSapp
@JoelSapp 3 года назад
He just needs to dig a bit deeper. Companies need to patent or they’ll lose their advantage. Sounds like they are using aluminum based upon research papers by their chief scientist.
@lestermarshall6501
@lestermarshall6501 3 года назад
Maybe he can't or hasn't patented it yet.
@JustHaveaThink
@JustHaveaThink 3 года назад
Well, it's a start up business so I guess they need to protect their intellectual property from others who may copy them. China, for example, are quite good at doing that, and that's probably a market that LAVO would like to get into.
@LabRatJason
@LabRatJason 2 года назад
So, I might be wrong here, but in addition to being more than double the cost of a tesla power wall, wouldn't you also need to double your solar capacity in order to make up for the 50% efficiency rate? I think that needs to be considered as part of the total cost of ownership for a system like Lavo, since it's roughly 50% less efficient than the battery.
@ivobrick7401
@ivobrick7401 2 года назад
It depends how much time are they able to hold power, even inefficient one. If you have double the power you need from your solar, let's say you use 2MV / year, you will need 4kWp solar array - that will cost you 149 eur / per 330 Wp panel, that mean little under 900 eur total (adition to your power plant). Also, need to know other things like max charging capacity of those new LAVO battery etc.
@chrissscottt
@chrissscottt 3 года назад
Can't understand why you wouldn't want to cook on hydrogen gas.
@JJSPARROW1978
@JJSPARROW1978 3 года назад
Andrew Forrester a Iron Ore mining magnate, has expressed his interest into "green" hydrogen. Also making "green" steel. He is not waiting for govanostra. His company is Fortescue Metals.
@MrZoomah
@MrZoomah 3 года назад
Was seeing if anyone was going to mention Fortescue. Massive plan and hopefully the WA government can back it up
@santeenl
@santeenl 3 года назад
7:18 50% is actually really high? A typical PEM electrolyzer is up to 80% efficieny, but fuel cells are only 60% efficient. On top of that with pressurized storage you would lose another 5% of your total energy bringing your best case efficiency up to 45% but in practice this number is closer to 40%. My biggest fear is that the capacity of this machine is marginal and the up front and/or maintenance costs are too high.
@martinstent5339
@martinstent5339 3 года назад
11:07 small mistake. You can't pressurise hydrogen to liquify it at "normal" temperatures. It's critical point is 32K.
@635574
@635574 3 года назад
Yes which makes the process even worse
@solartime8983
@solartime8983 3 года назад
Did u mean ref. at 5:07? "(hydrogens) volume is enormous at normal temperature ...has to cryrogenically cooled to minus 250° Celsius" ?
@sat7755
@sat7755 2 года назад
There is only a small tiny problem. Hydrogen does not exists in nature. Therefore it needs to be produced. Which we come to another tiny little problem, According to latest findings it is very expensive to produce, then additional money is needed to store it at very low temperature, and yet another problem is to transport it at low temperatures, and after is all said and done it needs an electric motor for its power to materialize. Why go through the whole complex and costly spiel, when we have in nature already an inexhaustible source of energy in our perennial Sun. The only thing we need to do is gather its power with solar panels coupled with accumulator to store excessive energy for use when the Sun is absent, and use other renewable sources as back up, and we solved the problem permanently and at costs we can easily afford.For over a century the Hydrogen miracle from time to time resurface, it is studied again and put back in the shelves again for the basic reasons known to every one.
@ivobrick7401
@ivobrick7401 2 года назад
Small tiny problem is technology described in the vid isn't any magic. Hydrogen is not stored directly. It is metalhydride in a pressure of 20 bar at room temperature. PV panels already produce excessive performance in the summer you are wasting anyway. Now what's stopping you from storing 120kW? Nothing.
@petera4476
@petera4476 3 года назад
FYI, as an Australian I would like to declare that ScoMo is an absolute Womble.
@MrArcher0
@MrArcher0 3 года назад
As an American could you please translate that for us? Lol
@kaneo6162
@kaneo6162 3 года назад
As an Australian, I declare this sentence horrific. Wombles are fictional re-cycling heroes from the 70's. Lauding the PM, or an insult in some wrong fashion? FYI : Wombles are organised, work as a team, Wombles are tidy and Wombles are clean. Underground, overground, Wombling free. The Wombles of Wimbledon Common are we. Wombles are awesome. SocMO not so.
@kaneo6162
@kaneo6162 3 года назад
ScoMo is short for Scott Morrison, Australia's current Prime Minister.
@VMRDY
@VMRDY 3 года назад
Without him you would’ve seen far more COVID deaths. Labor’s Dictator Dan’s COVID performance was responsible for 90% of Australia’s COVID deaths.
@kevw333
@kevw333 3 года назад
Cooking on hydrogen. Lets make this a saying.
@3000gtwelder
@3000gtwelder 3 года назад
"Cooking on gas is one thing, Hydrogen, not so much" How does that make a difference lol! I'd rather cook on Hydrogen any day over propane lol! Hydrogen is Clean!
@morteza1024
@morteza1024 3 года назад
Hydrogen burns so hot it melts anything
@julieheath6335
@julieheath6335 3 года назад
H2 does tend to explode if there's a leak. Kind of a negative. Don't forget the "Oh, the humanity!" Quote from the Hindenburg explosion...
@3000gtwelder
@3000gtwelder 3 года назад
@@morteza1024 the make Hydrogen stoves.
@3000gtwelder
@3000gtwelder 3 года назад
@@julieheath6335 Not, not really. It’s actually safer than gasoline. It is only dangerous in a confined space. It floats up and dissipates, where as Propane settles in low areas as it’s heavier than air. That “oh the humanity “ quote gets used for the wrong reasons way too much 😂
@angellestat2730
@angellestat2730 3 года назад
@@morteza1024 that is a lie.. hydrogen with air or oxygen burns at lower temperature than methane or most hydrocarbons. You are comparing just methane with air, vs hho which is a perfect mixture of hydrogen and oxygen.
@garyfindlay5503
@garyfindlay5503 3 года назад
The latest from Australia is the power industry wants to penalize people that have PV systems at certain times of the day for putting power into the grid. This is on top of having a difference of up to 30 cents per kilowatt for PV as against power from the grid (for example 11 cents for a PV kilowatt and then charging 37-38 cents per kilowatt in return to the same customer).
@westozbb8324
@westozbb8324 3 года назад
11 cents is better than the WA government give - they only pay 7.135 cents per unit
@Richardincancale
@Richardincancale 3 года назад
I think the low round-trip charge / discharge (in)efficiency won’t compensate for the high claimed cycle count. It’s a physical limit and can’t be improved much whereas cycle improvements in Li technology and further price falls will continue to improve it.
@onur6233
@onur6233 3 года назад
I completely agree. I don't think hydrogen makes sense in home storage and cars. This invention may have a great potential in planes/container ships where energy density is more important than efficiency and cost. And maybe grid storage, when you want to store energy for months due to seasonal abundance of a power source.
@suokkos
@suokkos 3 года назад
@@onur6233 , New batteries promise to allow use them as structural parts. This would allow battery replace some support structures reducing extra weight added. Chalmers University of Technology claims a breakthrough which would be good enough for products soon. They promise comparable strength to aluminium with 75Wh/kg specific energy which is close to 150-250Wh/kg for batteries in market.
@moblet
@moblet 3 года назад
Even if this storage technology can't be improved, small-scale solar and wind generation technology can, which will continue to push down the cost of the additional generation capacity needed for this storage, making the lower round-trip efficiency less relevant to anyone with enough real estate to host the additional capacity. LAVO is targeting remote off-grid applications where there is plenty of real estate for solar and wind generation and the easier transport and longer lifespan will be advantages.
@xxwookey
@xxwookey 3 года назад
Li storage is already 95% efficient so there is no room for improvement there. It's all about cost. This box claims to be cheaper than Li per kWh stored. Ultimately that's all we care about. PV is 20% efficient, Petrol engine is
@guiltyspark659
@guiltyspark659 3 года назад
@@xxwookey You've missed the point completely. Li-ion is already significantly more efficient than this technology but OP was referring to storage capacity, cycle-life, and cost of ownership, which will be on the decline thanks to the massive push for batteries in the EV market. He also mentioned that there is a limit to the round-trip efficiency of hydrogen and will be capped, thanks to heat loss, long before it reaches the 95% mark we see with Li-ion.
@synura8086
@synura8086 3 года назад
0:22 Why would you not cook with hydrogen? Coal gas is 50 % hydrogen, plus a few other components. That was the standard in many British homes until the 1970s. The entire gas infrastucture was switched first from coal gas (mainly hydrogen and methane) to natural gas (mainly methane) and it can be converted back to hydrogen when it becomes feasable.
@rtfazeberdee3519
@rtfazeberdee3519 3 года назад
People have said that the current pipe work is not suitable for hydrogen as it leaks easily and it will cause a lot of corrosion.
@closertothetruth9209
@closertothetruth9209 3 года назад
@@rtfazeberdee3519 it is a small molecule yet hydrogen is in use in industry, is it really corrosive though, isnt it an inert gas
@thankyouforyourcompliance7386
@thankyouforyourcompliance7386 3 года назад
It is about heat value/volume and about safety. Watch some videos on RU-vid about hydrogen burning. Hydrogen is also highly explosive in a very large range with oxygen and needs only very little ignition energy(about 1/5 of propane). And you been very good sealing and stainless steel for the compressed hydrogen in the grid. The infrastructure in UK is not really in good shape. Your compressor are also much more expensive due to the low density of hydrogen. So al lot of safety and technical issue.
@thankyouforyourcompliance7386
@thankyouforyourcompliance7386 3 года назад
@@rtfazeberdee3519 exactly. Hydrogen diffuse into the metal structure of standard steel and makes it brittle. Not a good thing when it easily explodes with air.
@jimmyb1451
@jimmyb1451 3 года назад
The Hindenburg. Same as people are scared witless of nuclear since Chernobyl. (while also comically unaware of the problem that is Fukushima).
@gc5643
@gc5643 3 года назад
Thank you for your thoughts and knowledge. You mentioned that in Australia we can utilise millions of panels. Recently we have heard that people will be charged for uploading their excess power to the grid. I wonder if you could please investigate this recent change, thank you.
@thankyouforyourcompliance7386
@thankyouforyourcompliance7386 3 года назад
Interesting. There are some real costs related for measuring & administration of exporting electricity into the grid. More volatile energy makes it also more difficult = expensive for the lazy base load systems like coal to react. If they blame the green energy for that they have an argument to penalize them. But is it really the fault of regenerative energy production that coal firing can not be properly adjusted to demand? This argument is imo based on a big fossil power generation perspective that is disturbed and wants to remain alone in the market.
@massimookissed1023
@massimookissed1023 3 года назад
Sounds like bollox to me. Who would actually pay to provide excess energy to the grid when they could just disconnect and supply nothing ?
@nerdy1701
@nerdy1701 3 года назад
@@massimookissed1023 solar panels disconnected from a load don't fair too well. They heat up pretty dramatically but I suppose you could cover them
@walterwego1396
@walterwego1396 3 года назад
There are some complex arguments in this proposal - and it has been on the cards for a while. As a solar owner I was initially frustrated by this. It will however be scale based on what your system can feed in and you would still be making a 'profit' or credit as Origin puts it. I have heard arguments that we are effectively using an extant system to sell our produced solar and expect to be able to do so without incurring costs. My response is that the feed in tariff is lower than the purchase point which should be covering this cost. I think real and significant issue is bigger than all of this. Its that NSW State Govt could see the writing on the wall and sold off the poles and wires a few years ago to avoid it being their problem - consequently the private industry has not invested and now we have a grid incapable of dealing with the burgeoning solar during the day and supply everyone during the night (I say this as a layman and am happy to have further explanation provided to me). My personal belief is that more incentives should be put towards home solar owners purchasing battery options rather than penalizing those investing in home solar. This would relieve the grid... of course then those energy companies wouldn't be making their dollars at night.
@projectmalus
@projectmalus 3 года назад
@@nerdy1701 What do you mean they heat up? The charge controller disconnects the array by not using power from it, if batteries are full. The panels sit there obediently until needed. Using them doesn't cool them off!
@russelltangren6883
@russelltangren6883 Год назад
it is truly unfortunate that lithium is pulled from the dictatorship of Bolivia and sent to another dictatorship, China, to make lithium batteries.
@juhajuntunen7866
@juhajuntunen7866 11 месяцев назад
Luckily USA found huge mountain of lithium from its backyard, as Sveden do.
@rubidot
@rubidot 3 года назад
It would be really interesting if those hydride units are easy to remove when full and, say, stick in your car, or sell to someone who needs more energy.
@lestermarshall6501
@lestermarshall6501 3 года назад
Or store them on a shelf for future need.
@gtranquilla
@gtranquilla 3 года назад
The typical hydride is iron oxide which is massively heavy, i.e. far to volumous and heavy for practical hydrogen storage inside an electric vehicle.........even those super heavy lithium based batteries used in e-vehicles are lighter.
@gtranquilla
@gtranquilla 3 года назад
While much of this is interesting, i could not help but notice a significant and unwarranted degree of implied negative bias towards the fossil fuel industries. But that is likely due to my 40+ Electrical engineering career serving a broad range of energy industries beginning with hydro and CANDU fission nuclear and ending with oil and natural gas industries with some PV solar and environmental soil remediation tossed into that mix. The devil is in the details and who could know better than the energy industry engineers who struggle with intense laws of physics, economics and budget constraints 24/7/365 days a year. “Its not so much what we don’t know that gets us into trouble but what we know for sure that just ain’t so!” - Mark Twain.....and “It is much easier to fool someone than it is to convince that person that they have been fooled!” Consult any electrical engineer who has worked in a variety of energy related industries to gain a more thorough and indepth understanding of the transition challenge ahead....preferably one who is retired as those who are still working know enough to remain silent when their career could be on the line for speaking against an obviously bad energy concept...... You will not find many engineers who manage energy projects from the top down......but wealthy business men who hire engineers to do their bidding.
@JustHaveaThink
@JustHaveaThink 3 года назад
They are removable, and I think the company does hope to use them for different applications. Nott sure about a car though.
@EdgeMasterPro
@EdgeMasterPro 3 года назад
@@JustHaveaThink a joke for us Australians if they are removable we could have them like a swappa bottle (8.5-9 kg gas bottles for the BBQ) we are psychologically trained to monitor the gas bottle abs swap them over
@superbad1585
@superbad1585 3 года назад
U.K. based AFC energy has been powering the new Extreme E Grand Prix series unsung Hydrogen
@michaelstreeter3125
@michaelstreeter3125 3 года назад
Thank you for this comment! I was following ABB Formula E (even bought a grandstand ticket for the final race) but was completely unaware of Extreme E Grand Prix.
@kylehazachode
@kylehazachode 3 года назад
The perfect home hydrogen fuel cell would get its water for electrolysis from rain water barrels, use excess solar power to convert the rain water to H2. The hydrogen fuel cell can power the house at night and warm the house during winter and run AC units during the summer. The fuel cell’s water byproduct is undrinkable without processing; you can either use that water to keep radiated heat pipes full, or filter/mineralize/soften the water for drinking. For me, I’d like to use a CO2 scrubber to turn the fuel cell’s water to soda water. Unlimited vodka club.
@andershjelmare4462
@andershjelmare4462 3 года назад
No, this is definitely not a game changer. It is more of a toy for the environmentally concious. The millions and millions of ordinary people need something that is simple, affordable and works.
@IMGreg..
@IMGreg.. 3 года назад
Think of a lithium batter as a storage device around the time of the Tesla Roaster and you see they're nearly on par for the development cycle.
@voyagertwoband
@voyagertwoband 3 года назад
I love your videos. Happy Easter!
@ne1cup
@ne1cup 3 года назад
fuel cells ruin it for me, just burn the hydrogen for heat ? Stirling engine ?
@SurrealKeenan
@SurrealKeenan 3 года назад
Have you considered making a video on the environmental impact of NFTs?
@moonlight-hm4bh
@moonlight-hm4bh 3 года назад
I guess most of it is linked to crypto mining, but in that case, a video on that would also be great
@livingladolcevita7318
@livingladolcevita7318 3 года назад
It still amazes me that the vast majority of houses in the UK are not fitted out with solar. I do realise that we just can't dispose of fossil fuels overnight in favour of electric as the amount of job losses would probably cripple the British economy, but I do think we should be progressing a lot faster than we are at present.
@livingladolcevita7318
@livingladolcevita7318 3 года назад
no joy there then. Just heard news of an electric motor being developed in Britain without permanent magnets. So that will be sold to another country to reap the benefits
@grayzytube
@grayzytube 3 года назад
"Electricity at low prices" LMAO. Prices and profits won't drop until energy companies (same for other utilities) are no longer privately owned. Maybe if Australia went on the 'green' production H2 use they could desalinate seawaterand regreen the interior.
@Tasmantor
@Tasmantor 3 года назад
You sure you ment privately owned?
@coreys2686
@coreys2686 3 года назад
UK has had negative wholesale prices in the last couple years, and paying people to charge their cars.
@coreys2686
@coreys2686 3 года назад
Ownership matters little. Corruption is the biggest problem, followed by poorly maintained infrastructure. And why use solar to split water into hydrogen, recombine it for power, then use that to desalinate water? Hydrogen isn't an energy source, per se. Its a storage medium, just like how petroleum is storing energy that plants used millions of years ago. The interior has already been greened to a certain extent. The range of kangaroo has expanded tremendously, thanks to the water sources that ranchers have for their livestock
@xijinpingpong4426
@xijinpingpong4426 3 года назад
The high energy prices in Europe are mostly a result of renewable energy that won't be stored for times with no sun and no wind. So the old infrastructure is still there for this times and gets maintained. The old infrastructure produces less and costs nearly the same. At the same time more wind turbines and solar panels get build without building enough storage systems. The renewable energy gets highly supported by the state. Building storage systems is expensive and the old infrastructure is already there. So it is at least in most of Europe a result of energy politics and not of the "bad" private companies.
@rollinswitch
@rollinswitch 3 года назад
Sure, why not. A fellow in New Jersey has been running his home and a car on hydrogen made from his PV system for at least 15 years. Always seems to have an excess of power. Has ground sourced heating.
@ronaldgarrison8478
@ronaldgarrison8478 3 года назад
3:55 This looks like real progress to me. I have no doubt that, ten years ago, Morrison would have simply said "There is no credible energy transiton plan," and simply omitted the rest.
@idunnoay
@idunnoay 3 года назад
3 years ago ScoMo brought a lump of coal into our parliament - now he doesn't talk about coal, only gas. Technically it is progress in the right direction, but nowhere near fast enough and we're still likely to have new gas fields, electricity generation plants and "blue" hydrogen hubs here, locking in higher emissions for decades to come. Luckily there is some momentum for the green version of hydrogen, and one of our many mining billionaires is actually putting real money behind specifically green hydrogen, saying there is no point in developing any other kind in a low emissions world. Just need the message to get through to the pollies.
@ronaldgarrison8478
@ronaldgarrison8478 3 года назад
@@idunnoay Oh yes, I know about ScoMo, even over here; just saw footage of him yesterday, in fact, in one of a seies of videos on the history of Tesla. We have Inhofe and his snowball, you have ScoMo and his lump of coal. You probably heard the saying that science progresses one funeral at a time. Alas, it tends to apply to politics as well.
@HarionDafar
@HarionDafar 3 года назад
Metalhydride storage of hydrogen is well known and widely used in modern German submarines for instance.
@morkovija
@morkovija 3 года назад
TLDW: Unlikely edit: glad you addressed the link to fossil fuel companies
@JustHaveaThink
@JustHaveaThink 3 года назад
I can always spot which generation is talking to me... my Dad's generation tell me I talk too quickly, and my nephews generation tell my I talk too slowly. That tells me I've got it spot on ;-)
@morkovija
@morkovija 3 года назад
@@JustHaveaThink yup. I sense paper publishing worthy research)
@jedburnell9046
@jedburnell9046 3 года назад
Hydrogen is just Gasoline wearing a dress.
@bobwallace9753
@bobwallace9753 3 года назад
lithium iron phosphate (LFP) cells have very high cycle rates. The ones I am using are rated at 10,000+ cycles. They are very safe, they are non flammable. They weigh a bit more than the cells used in a Tesla Powerwall but since they are going to sit in place for decades their extra weight is not a problem. The materials used in LFP cells are much less expensive than the chemistry Tesla is currently using in Powerwalls. I am very skeptical of this hydrogen fuel cell approach. It's much more complicated than a simple battery solution so I expect higher prices and more maintenance issues. And I'd need to see some reliable cost and efficiency data. Tesla has changed the storage world with their new dry rolled, tabless 4680 cells. If the cell is LFP it's likely the cost of storage will drop below $50/kWh. With a 10,000 cycle life that works out to $0.005 US per kWh cycle. Almost nothing. The efficiency of a LFP battery exceeds 90%. As far as I can tell hydrogen fuel cells are, at best, 60% efficient. Additional energy will be used in purifying the water, extracting the hydrogen, and forcing into the storage material. This 'store it in a brick' fuel cell system might be less than 40% efficient. Sounds like an idea with no future.
@richardstubbs6484
@richardstubbs6484 3 года назад
The system for recycling lithium batteries has not yet been established. This is a priority surely ?
@bobwallace9753
@bobwallace9753 3 года назад
@@richardstubbs6484 There are systems for recycling lithium batteries. Have been for years. It's basically grind and separate. The problem is that there are not yet enough used EV batteries to support a recycling business. You can't run a company/process if there's only enough work to keep things going for a few hours a year. One of the main people at Tesla has left his active role and has started a recycling company that will, among other things, recycle EV batteries. That won't be a significant part of their business for some time but they will get their process refined using discarded, defective cells from battery factories.
@doritoification
@doritoification 3 года назад
4:13 Mark Z. Jacobson used as a source to "comprehensively debunk" anything is an oxymoron. His work is highly contested despite his tendency to sue anyone who disagrees with him.
@davitdavid7165
@davitdavid7165 3 года назад
Probably a mistake.
@doritoification
@doritoification 3 года назад
@@davitdavid7165 Yeah I just feel the need to call out anything that references Mark Z. Jacobson because of the damage his "work" does
@davitdavid7165
@davitdavid7165 3 года назад
@@doritoification dont know who he is,but from what i heard from you he deserves to be called out. Thank you
@davidmartin3947
@davidmartin3947 3 года назад
I am disappointed in this channel. Jacobson deserves the patent for 'fake news' and is a complete nutter. And the ideological critique the author offers for seeking to dismiss hydrogen from natural gas with or without carbon capture and storage on the grounds that the fossil fuel industry is using it as a ruse is comparable to a marxist notion of 'fellow travellers' Numerate critiques look at the numbers. Hydrogen obtained by reforming for use in home fuel cells, as they do in 300,000 homes in Japan, means that the heat can be used for hot water, instead of vented to the atmosphere as present gas turbines do. So something of the order of a 30% improvement in energy utilisation and consequently fewer carbon emissions is dismissed as not ideologically pure enough. And some carbon capture methods result in solid carbon, for easy sequestration, and also industrial use. Ideologues banging on about their hobby horses without a real understanding of the technologies or a sensible numerical evaluation of options are part of the problem, not the solution.
@MrBenstero
@MrBenstero 3 года назад
What about converting the methane gasses coming out of landfill sites to hydrogen?
@thepyhooyachannel8584
@thepyhooyachannel8584 3 года назад
Its not worth it, there isn't much gas and flaring has the same end result as separating it into hydrogen, the co2 is just released. It would be more efficient to put a small methane burning system at the landfill instead of just burning it, but I'm sure the numbers aren't there to make $ in the current system, so much waste is done for economic value, or the lacl thereof
@black_platypus
@black_platypus 3 года назад
"RedFlow" 😂 I mean, I get it, redox flow -> RedFlow, but it just evokes menstruation imagery ^^
@oneirophon8912
@oneirophon8912 3 года назад
When he said that name, my immediate thought was "Do they realize what that sounds like?!"
@citationsloth
@citationsloth 3 года назад
Lol the power of my pissed off wife
@black_platypus
@black_platypus 3 года назад
@@citationsloth If we could harness that, this channel would be out of a job! 😁
@godfreypoon5148
@godfreypoon5148 2 года назад
Yeah, that name is... uh... not real good.
@martinstent5339
@martinstent5339 3 года назад
Not cooking with hydrogen? Well come to Germany! In many parts of the country they are mixing 10% hydrogen in with the natural gas supply. There are plans to up it to 20% next year. Burnt your pancakes? Well, that's hydrogen cooking! It burns them faster than you can get the maple syrup ouit of the cupboard!
@richardlangley90
@richardlangley90 3 года назад
That's interesting. My understanding is that Germany is still struggling to reduce the number of coal power plants.... How is this hydrogen made that you are using? If it's Green Hydrogen then the amount of wind and solar that must be installed in order to replace the coal plants will be in the order of 3 times....that is super irresponsible if one accepts that we have less than 10 years to get our Co2 emissions under control. Why burn hydrogen when cooking can be done on Induction cook tops, heating and cooling can be done using Heat Pumps. Why implement a gas that is so dangerous, hard to manage and energy intensive to make??
@martinstent5339
@martinstent5339 3 года назад
@@richardlangley90 I have tried to research this. There are 2 companies Avacon und DVGW who are cooperating in an area in eastern Germany (Saxon Anhalt) in an experiment to see how much hydrogen you can mix with methane and if it causes problems with the end users. Avacon is the distributer and DVGW is the hydrogen producer. I agree with you about the fact that it’s crazy to do that while we are still burning coal, but the government has a lot of people promoting and preparing for hydrogen to take over as a major energy storage and transport medium, and I think this is just part of that preparation. We also have areas where there is actually sometimes a surplus of wind and solar power which can’t be economically transported to the rest of the country and we are lacking storage for that, so making hydrogen out of it makes sense.
@coenraadloubser5768
@coenraadloubser5768 3 года назад
It's always been a reality. But the tank you need is impracticably large. This is amazing.
@Christianbeale888
@Christianbeale888 3 года назад
Dimensions: 1680 x 1240 x 400 mm, fairly larger than the power wall (1150x760x150mm) but if you have the space and can be kept outside still practical.
@LaserGuidedLoogie
@LaserGuidedLoogie 3 года назад
Storing hydrogen in any useable form has always been a nightmare. If Lavo has solved this problem in such a small formfactor, then that is a monumental discovery on the scale of nuclear power. I'm betting it's BS.
@z4m01
@z4m01 3 года назад
For the price I'd rather be buying lithium. The main selling point should be long term storage which they don't seem to be promoting with only 40KWh. The tank size should be up to 1MWh at least to store the summer surplus to be used it in winter.
@Sasoon2006
@Sasoon2006 3 года назад
It looks like storage containers are removable, so you could have another set or two, and swap them. Charge them all when you have lots of sun, and use them on rainy days. It is not for the winter time, but for a week or two
@Jsmith1611
@Jsmith1611 3 года назад
Lavo could make sense today in a hybrid commercial system today where you use hydrogen and lithium ion. There is a portion of your storage that will need to cycle at a far higher rate so hydrogen can be used for that while the lithium ion can be used more for the medium term storage. Kind of like cache and RAM memory on a computer.
@per.kallberg
@per.kallberg 3 года назад
It would be the used the other way around. Batteries usually have massive cycle capability if you only use a small amount. Main question after the video is the power density. Could one unit produce 10 kW to power a home?
@per.kallberg
@per.kallberg 3 года назад
@Marc Jackson These units contain Lithium batteries and those batteries are used as I state. Info available in there spec. The power density is fairly low 5kW. It’s not enough to run a home. Info also available in there spec. Li-ion cells can have a million cycles if the correct circumstances are fulfilled. In these applications Li-Fe is common and they don’t suffer from thermal runaway.
@per.kallberg
@per.kallberg 3 года назад
@Marc Jackson Stop being a jackass and go read the spec for the product. It clearly state what I have written earlier. I tried to link it but YT won’t let me. There are some peer reviewed papers on micro cycles for Liion batteries. Read those as well. If what you say would be correct regenerative breaking in electric cars wouldn’t exist. There is no need to get offensive or have a bad attitude. Please behave as the best version of yourself.
@dougjohnson4266
@dougjohnson4266 3 года назад
The US PBS program Scientific American Frontiers S14 E3 'Future Car' discussed this same metal in the back in 2004.
@AndPennyThought
@AndPennyThought 3 года назад
I am hopeful for the technologies but skeptical because of the link to fossil fuels. Great video :>
@MrBenstero
@MrBenstero 3 года назад
It can start on fossil fuels but can eventually transfer to just using water as well when we find an easier way that's less energy intensive.
@autohmae
@autohmae 3 года назад
Remember this Lavo system has 0 connection with the fossil fuel, it's just a different kind of battery for the home.
@AndPennyThought
@AndPennyThought 3 года назад
@@autohmae True, I have no problem with the battery itself, just the production of the fuel it uses (hydrogen).
@autohmae
@autohmae 3 года назад
@@AndPennyThought well, for this product the production only happens near the battery, so at home. No external fuel company involved.
@AndPennyThought
@AndPennyThought 3 года назад
@@autohmae Oh geeze I think I misunderstood. For some reason I thought that tanks would have to be refilled! Thanks for pointing it out!
@KevIsOffGrid
@KevIsOffGrid 3 года назад
What would be awesome is a hybrid system, a BIG Hydrogen "cell" like 100kwhr and a 20kwhr LiFEPO4 (just safer, and fine for home use/solar). You can then try to have enough renewable power input (PV / Wind) to mildly cycle the lithium pack daily and at not to high of "C" rates but then use the hydrogen as dump load for extra energy to then use in low energy input days. Should be able to get large numbers of "days of autonomy" from a system that way. Very long lifespan, self sufficient possibilities too, getting the best out of each technology.
@brucebender5917
@brucebender5917 3 года назад
Love the cycle life. Hopefully they can get round trip efficiency up and cost down. . . .
@VinoVeritas_
@VinoVeritas_ 3 года назад
Round trip efficiency isn't that important if the initial embodied energy is drawn from wind or solar. Mitigation of the intermittent nature of wind and solar is the greatest concern.
@iwiffitthitotonacc4673
@iwiffitthitotonacc4673 3 года назад
@@VinoVeritas_ Some energy lost > all energy lost.
@VinoVeritas_
@VinoVeritas_ 3 года назад
@@iwiffitthitotonacc4673 Exactly!
@phalanx3803
@phalanx3803 3 года назад
@@VinoVeritas_ Practicality is also important. as a farmer if you gave me the choice of 2 tractors one H2 and one EV i would take H2 it can be refilled in the field just as fast a diesel compared to an EV tractor that would need to be driven all the way home and take hours to recharge and we dont have time to wait around work has to be done or mother nature will leaves us behind.
@Knowledge_Nuggies
@Knowledge_Nuggies 2 года назад
How about H2 powered ships? Ain't that a thing? :)
@yekutielbenheshel354
@yekutielbenheshel354 Год назад
It's not feasible currently. Ammonia looks better than H2 for ships these days.
@georgeginsburg545
@georgeginsburg545 3 года назад
I would think they could get the price down with economies of scale. However, I hope whatever metal they use is not an expensive one, e.g., platinum, which is used in Plug Power’s PEM fuel cells.
@quitequiet5281
@quitequiet5281 3 года назад
Good point made. That would explain why the price tag is so high.
@jackdbur
@jackdbur 3 года назад
Any fuel cell will have both expensive materials and expensive nanotechnology to get a decent efficiency level. Still your talking electricity to gas then back to electricity. Remember KISS principle make electricity : store electricity : use electricity. No middle step = more efficient less bits to go wrong or add cost.
@cusman
@cusman 3 года назад
Lavo should pursue being a viable solution of capturing and storing solar / wind energy to be able to release it on-demand as a replacement of Peaker Plants. Total lifetime output of 800,000 kWh is much better than the 40,500 kWh of the Tesla Powerwall 2.0.
@seankuhn6633
@seankuhn6633 3 года назад
I want to go like grandpa quietly in my sleep; not like the kids kicking and screaming in the back seat of the car
@GeoFry3
@GeoFry3 3 года назад
I heard it grandpa was a pilot for 40 years who died peacefully in his sleep....his passengers on the other hand died screaming.
@AaronJacksonJS
@AaronJacksonJS 3 года назад
BUT WHERE DO YOU GET THE HYDROGEN FROM???? Electrolysis??? Why not just put the energy in a battery without the 30+% loss??? #dumbideasarestilldumb #facepalm #RIPHUMANS
@mrkokolore6187
@mrkokolore6187 3 года назад
You can also use process heat from nuclear powerplants to create hydrogen using thermochemical processes to produce carbon-free hydrogen as you would with renewables only more reliable.
@MatthewStinar
@MatthewStinar 3 года назад
Shouldn't the terms be dirty hydrogen and gray hydrogen, not gray and blue respectively?
@acmefixer1
@acmefixer1 3 года назад
@Matthew Stinar Green hydrogen produces no CO2. Gray hydrogen comes from natural gas and produces CO2. Blue hydrogen is from natural gas but the CO2 is captured and stored underground.
@MatthewStinar
@MatthewStinar 3 года назад
@@acmefixer1 Agreed. What they call gray, I'd call dirty. What they call blue, I'd call gray.
@davidalmeida2991
@davidalmeida2991 3 года назад
Thank you for your ever so comprehensive video and information 🙏 love, from Portugal
@Jay...777
@Jay...777 3 года назад
Brilliant round up on hydrogen. A must view for all politicians. Love the Australian hydrogen battery setup for home use. But if possible being able to cook on hydrogen gas would make me happy. I much prefer gas to electricity for exotic cooking. A clean burning gas flame like hydrogen would seem a perfect solution. Maybe the hydrogen battery guys could pipe a little hydrogen into a burner on my kitchen worktop? Sizzle. Sizzle. Ummm.
@JustHaveaThink
@JustHaveaThink 3 года назад
Funnily enough, I think there are indeed plans to mix it in with the existing gas supply. They will need to upgrade a lot of pipe work though, to avoid the hydrogen making it brittle.
@EdgeMasterPro
@EdgeMasterPro 3 года назад
Other than a wok. Induction cooker makes slaving over a hot gas hob look primitive. It’s faster than gas and does not heat the cooking area up safer removes the required of another system to be installed.
@Jay...777
@Jay...777 3 года назад
@@EdgeMasterPro Thanks for that. Yes I agree and in fact I do all my counter top cooking on an electric induction cooker. And of course the oven is electric too. Just call me a hopeless romantic for a sizzling hot wok. lol I've spent a lot of time out east and it fits with my experience there. atb
@kirangeorge785
@kirangeorge785 3 года назад
Awesome content 👍👍
@chrisdaniels3929
@chrisdaniels3929 3 года назад
Agreed. This was a good video.
@aintquitewright1480
@aintquitewright1480 3 года назад
You really need to start thinking of large industrial arrays of solar and grid solar. Especially in places like Australia and US where we have huge amounts of empty sunny low cost, unused land for such installations. Britons and Europeans assume solar on rooftops is the standard way to go. But, places like US and Australia can build twice the kWh of solar for the money with industrial sized projects plugged directly into the grid. Same for energy storage.
@dawood121derful
@dawood121derful 3 года назад
One would be wasting their time waiting for fossil fuel companies to do any meaningful development. They’re mostly interested in the profit of natural resources THEY OWN, which really just taints the spirit of true development. I vote YES to the development of GREEN hydrogen.
@andrewnusroot2754
@andrewnusroot2754 3 года назад
I'm an Aussie and I'd love to see the world have a transition plan to renewables. Having said that, I'd like to clarify a point made in this clip. It's important to understand that Australia is THE biggest exporter of coal, in the world. Accounting for 30% of the worlds coal. Therefore whilst someone could make an economic case for Australia to produce cheap renewable energy for it's domestic market, it doesn't want to discourage the world from using coal because it will devastate our huge export revenue stream. This is an important factor and an aspect that people rarely mention in their analysis of our policies.
@kennethtgibson
@kennethtgibson 2 года назад
Replace the coal exports with export of Australia designed and manufactured energy storage systems. Instead of mining coal share in the building of solar panels and windmills. Market your products by demonstrating their effectiveness Down Under.
@larrysnyder12345
@larrysnyder12345 3 года назад
Silly silly silly 😊😊 they still wanna burn stuff . Like he basically stated .THE LAW OF CONSERVATION OF ENERGY . THE BIGGEST BURNER IS IN THE SKY .
@ДмитрийХабаров-ю1ъ
very interesting! Can you research ballard and it's H2 tech? They say they're most advanced in fuel cell tech. Is it true?
@anthonydyer3939
@anthonydyer3939 3 года назад
On my 9kw solar array, I’m on course to produce a massive excess of electrical power during the summer months, even when electric car driving is taken into account. There’s only 3 dark months of the year where my panel electricity production is significantly short of my electrical demand. Battery storage is great for daytime to nighttime shifts in electricity. But this hydrogen concept seems to have the potential to expand its storage capabilities cheaply. That would enable seasonal shifts in surplus electricity, in spite of the inefficiency compared to batteries. I’m reckoning that 1MWh of storage would do it. No need for a bigger electrolyser or fuel cell, but there’s certainly a need for larger metal hydride capacity.
@Swampwild1
@Swampwild1 3 года назад
Exactly. If we could build an inventory of stored cells for winter, like firewood but clean. This metal-hydrogen is exciting. I’m sure it will be like batteries and use cheaper materials over time. Weight doesn’t matter.
@1jhxdh
@1jhxdh 3 года назад
LIVO Vs Powerwall Volume is about 6.5 times ((1680 x 1240 x 400)/(1150x753x147)) and weight is 1.7 times (196/114). Also, LIVO needs a water inlet, which needs to be conserved. It has Electrolyzer. Both need regular maintenance. Max. system pressure 35 bar is another concern at Home! However, it is a good idea.
@larrysnyder12345
@larrysnyder12345 3 года назад
Ask ourselves this...IF THE PEOPLE WHO DESIGN COMPUTER SYSTEMS , SMARTPHONES and now TESLAS used the same mentality as THE HYDROGEN NEANDERTHALS . JUST WHAT KIND OF TEXTING WOULD WE BE DOING ? WAIT I GOT IT . SMOKE SIGNALS 🤣🤣🤣
@colinmegson7107
@colinmegson7107 3 года назад
A much better idea for powering one's electricity needs is to be connected to the grid which supplies 24/7/365 electricity. In the UK, the CCC's plans for the electricity generation sector, is to get us to net-zero by 2050 from 80 % of our electricity being generated by wind and solar power plants (WASPPs). But because these technologies are stuck with the INTERMITTENCY PROBLEM, the plan is to transform intermittent electricity to dispatchable 24/7/365 electricity using green hydrogen manufactured by electrolysis, by taking 'surplus' electricity from WASPPs when their generation exceeds demand. What they neglect to do is explain how staggeringly complex this is and how massively expensive it is too. Considering only the total capital investment required and (to transform intermittent electricity to 24/7/365 electricity) the cost of fuel - that's right: the cost of green hydrogen fuel - would run up an annual 'bill' (starting now) of £31.83 billion per year, every year, FOREVER! By contrast, the capital investment and fuel cost for Rolls Royce's advanced nuclear power plants (NPPs) to generate the same amount of electricity each year is £8.41 billion per year. Rolls-Royce will be in production by 2030. Through installing at a rate of 9 or 10 units each year, by 2050, 182 NPPs would be operational at a cost, including fuel, of £25.23 billion per year, which is 20% below the perpetual WASPP alternative. But then there would be a 40 years investment hiatus before further investment is needed; hence the £8.41 billion per year equivalence. Down at the money-source level, your typical UK household, £31.83 billion (for the WASPP recommendation) spread across the 27.8 million UK households will, one way or another, ‘insinuate’ £1,145 each year into each and every energy bill. The advanced NPP solution would cost £303 per year. The route the UK Government is being urged to take by the CCC, National Grid, Greenpeace, FoE, etc., in pursuit of these ridiculous intermittent WASPP technologies is insane. But burgeoning developments in advanced NPPs will start sucking commercial investment out of WASPPs before the end of this decade and the WASPPs built over the next 10 years might be the last we will see of them. colin-megson.medium.com/by-2050-the-cccs-sixth-carbon-budget-calls-for-635-twh-year-of-despatchable-electricity-from-d1cac83a213
@lynndonharnell422
@lynndonharnell422 2 года назад
Actually steam reformation of methane produces hydrogen and carbon MONOXIDE not dioxide. Slight difference.
@tripjet999
@tripjet999 2 года назад
Sounds "explosive."
@DavidSanchez-vx4bv
@DavidSanchez-vx4bv 3 года назад
Investing $23,000 USD just in energy storages means that your electricity monthly bill HAS to be BIG, in order to justify it.... (mine it's less than $10USD per month....)
@uscitizen5656
@uscitizen5656 3 года назад
I've wanted a system for my house for over 10 years.. WATER, WATER, WATER. Send ME one Please ?!?!?!? Already have solar panels for the hydroponic garden and battery for night time watering. My Company has installed Hydrogen backup systems for the Power Company in SE USA to help keep there communications up at Cell Towers
@nordic5490
@nordic5490 3 года назад
$35k for 40 kwhr - not inc installation (needs power and water) or the output inverter. Is now discounted to $29k, but I expect $35k total installed cost. Due to the potential of a hydrogen leak, cannot be installed inside. There are several other gotchas ; 5kw maximum charge and discharge is not enough for most homes. What if you have the ac on, and you want to boil the kettle ? The Lavo has only been tested with a 3kw inverter output so far, and 3kw certainly isnt enought for most people. The Tesla Powerwall 2 is typically $11 to $13k installed. The PW2 13.2 kwh, 5kw max charge and discharge, 7kw 10sec discharge. 3x PW2s can be daisy chained for the same money as the Lava, ie, 15kw discharge. The manufacturer stated round trip efficiently is 90%. Tesla also have a neat integrated pv inverter available for offgrid. The Lavo round trip efficientcy ? Lavo claim 50% !. The maximum theoretical H to E fuel cell conversion efficiency is 63% Typical H to E fuel cell conversion efficiency is 50%. Then there are the 'charge' losses. I doubt the Lavo round trip efficiency is nearly as good as 50%. Maybe all that lost heat energy can be used for underfloor heating in winter ? Will require a much larger solar pv system. This link: LAVO’s Australian Made Hydrogen Battery: Incredible Engineering. Tough Sell. www.solarquotes.com.au/blog/lavo-hydrogen-battery-review/ "... Another option would be to load up on Century lead-acid batteries. They will be more energy efficient ... "
@francoisbadoux625
@francoisbadoux625 3 года назад
Well! I doubt the claim of 50% "round-trip" efficiency, for the following reasons: - I assume they start from DC from PV panels, and not from AC from the grid, hence avoiding the 5% loss of that conversion.... However, I would be surprised if the voltage did not have to be adjusted to suit the hydroliser. I shall use an arbitrary 2% loss. - I neglect the water-pumping duty... - An industrial-size, high-temperature electrolyser can get an efficiency in the 70+%. But a home-scale one should be challenged reaching 60%. - Then, if my understanding is correct, the hydrogen is adsorbed, in the form of metal hydride, by compressing it. This compression is probably not to very high levels, and the losses thereby limited, but the compression will still reduce the efficiency by a couple of %. - To desorb the hydrogen, I wouldn't be surprise that you have to apply to those canisters a partial vacuum. A vacuum pump also consumes power, say another couple of %. - Then, the hydrogen is combined with the oxygen of air (which must be purified, hence a small pumping loss, which I neglect) in a fuel cell. This FC has around 50% efficiency. - The various losses of efficiency above are emitted in the form of heat. There must be therefore a cooling system. Say 1% loss for an air-cooled cooling system. - Finally, the DC power from the FC must be converted to AC to be used within the home, hence another (and final!) loss of 5%. Therefore, the round-trip efficiency of the system should be more like 0.98x0.70x0.98x0.98x0.50x0.99x0.95 = ~31%, then the 50% claimed!!!! Unless the company has found some thermodynamic tricks, which are not in my book! BTW, the round-trip efficiency of storage batteries is not 95%, but: 0.95 (conversion AC/DC) x 0.95 (ohmic losses within the battery) x 0.95 (conversion loss DC/AC) = ~86% (starting from grid power), a bit more from DC from a PV installation. Still, the difference in efficiencies between the two system is stunning! Hydrogen, as a short-term (overnight) storage system is a non-starter. For long-term storage (weeks, or even seasonal), the jury is still out. Last but not least: a storage battery "à la" Powerwall, is solid-state. It will last decades, with some but limited (and pretty well known) storage-capacity losses, but NO maintenance. The hydrogen system has several motors, several rotating devices (pumps, compressor), and will therefore not escape not insignificant maintenance costs over decades of lifetime... say 1-2% per year of the initial purchase price. The performances of the electrolyser and FC will also degrade with time, as the electrodes of the electrolyser, and the catalyst (platinum) of the FC get progressively contaminated by impurities from less than perfectly pure water and air. If, or rather when, those have to be changed, expect a sizable bill! One last thought: the speed of reaction of such power-storage devices to a grid failure: the battery will react in a few milliseconds, you will just notice, if it happens at night, a flickering of the lights. The hydrogen system will take tens of seconds to a couple of minutes to come to power. No big problem... but you will, for sure, have to restart your internet connection!
@malcolmbridge3289
@malcolmbridge3289 3 года назад
Very interesting, as ever, though, in my opinion, not quite as sound as usual. No matter what you do, the fundamental physical properties of Hydrogen mean that you are currently working from a maximum of 35% electricity to electricity. The best projected figure is something like 45%, less than half of that of the National Grid. Metal hydrides are proven ways of storing hydrogen but can never have high gravimetric efficiency. That with the highest Hydrogen content is Beryllium, at 18% w/w, though I assume that there are problems using it as it never features in research reports where complex hydrides (mostly involving Tin) predominate. Tin hydride itself contains just 3% Hydrogen. A friend who worked on the experimental, Hydrogen fuel cell-powered narrowboat Ross Barlow (2007) says that its (complex metal) system achieved 1-2% w/w. The (no doubt correct) claims about relative lifetimes of "hydrogen batteries" and the Tesla Powerwall is fine but supercapacitors will do the job better (99+% efficiency), cheaper and for longer (a million cycles). No contest in my book. Hydrogen may well be necessary for applications which can't be satisfied in other ways, such as HGV's, trains and large ships, and might be OK for localised gas grids, but is always going to come second to direct and stored electricity in less demanding applications such as grid-connected homes and cars.
@ScottRawdin
@ScottRawdin 3 года назад
Thank you for this excellent presentation of the evolution of Hydrogen for energy. Soon (I hope) you will present us with a user-friendly-economic-green-energy system for the home.
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