Hyundai/Kia E-GMP Electric Drive Units - Clever, Cost Efficient, and Future-Proofed. 

THANKS SCOTT, for introducing WALKER,AND THE REST OF THE MUNRO TEAM 🤗👍💚💚💚

Hyundai is a huge industrial conglomerate that has everything from shipbuilding to semiconductor divisions. Building an entire EV themselves is no great surprise.

Scott and Walker killing this teardown and walkthrough. Great one guys, thanks!

Great presentation, guys! You took complex equipment and made it incredibly understandable! Sandy, give 'em a raise & put them in other Munro Live videos! And don't let them get away... they're keepers! SoCalFreddy

Regarding friction stir processing it doesn't actually melt the material. The rotation of the spindle only heats the metal to a plastic state kind of like mixing taffy. The resulting "weld" area has properties more like a forged part instead of a cast part - significantly stronger and less brittle.

Just so you all know, that back motor is also used in the front for the gv60 480hp versions and the ev6gt.

The brushes/contacts are not for static discharge. The high frequency from the inverter induces some currents in the rotor shaft. This induced current would flow through the bearings and cause erosion and damage. The brushes form a current path instead of through the bearings. This issue is also a problem on AC industrial motors running with a VFD (an inverter drive). Rotor grounding similar to that was shown here is recommended to prevent damage on these motors as well.

Keep bringing scott hoffmann he's an interesting character and good at explaining things I like his style, kudos.

Looks like Hyundai/Kia is ahead of the pack engineering their drive systems. All while holding the cost down.

Hyundai Motor Group appears to be more vertically-integrated than any other automaker, even moreso that Tesla. Bit differently so. Hyundai has their own container shipping company, for example. Heck, they even make their own steel.

Great job, guys. Cool to see the next generation people getting featured in Munro videos.

If the parking pawl is only in the front drive unit (as it appears to be), and the parking brakes are only at the rear wheels (which is the normal practice), then adding the parking pawl in AWD vehicles gives them four-wheel parking brakes; the pawl isn't just redundant, it adds capability.

In addition to saving the manufacturer $500 they also save the consumer a lot of time charging the vehicle, and it helps them reach their claim of 18min charge from 10% to 80% SOC.

Love it, more motor teardowns please!

Finally! 🎉Been waiting for this video for over an Year since I got my EV 6❤

Superb Tutorial on these systems Provides an understanding of the hardware, but also the rationales behind engineering choices made. Fantastic!

Very educational great job guys looking forward to your next tear down.

Great innovations, explanations and improvements to make 👍

Super excited to see companies taking the time / $$$ to improve the efficiency of the drivetrain. If Hyundai had gone with the larger battery pack instead of the decoupler, the user would have spend the time and money to charge that additional battery pack size.

I really enjoy watching Scott. Great personality very intelligent.

Invertor section was a revelation. 4 phase when charging blew my mind! Great presentation Munro.

Always bless to watch.. well explained

Scott has a good understanding of Electronics! Who Hoo! Very impressive and information packed video. While Scott does a great job of explaining acronyms as he goes (correctly I might add) if there were a few less "monuments" along the way would be great. Perhaps a Thesaurus 😁. Great job both to Scott and Walker. Nice design work from Hyundai/Kia. I'm guessing the front drive is also for a future smaller car.

Great presentation guys, glad my EV6 is up there with innovative technology !!!! 😎🤠

Thank you for the review!! :-)

This is an amazing episode 😎🔥😎🔥😎🔥

The parking pawl is very important to avoid stuck brake pads/discs. This issue is very severe with the Ioniq5 and EV6. Even when it only rained they are stuck and with brute force they break loose with a big bang, very annoying! So I love the fact that this is still in place!

Thanks for always explaining the acronyms!

Those extra parts that help reduce consumption seem A LOT more renewable than adding battery cells; in so many ways.

I’ve just done 14,000 miles in a KIA EV6 GT. The experience has been flawless and you can see why from this. It’s comfortable, spacious yet compact on the outside, well made, actually fun to drive and shockingly fast. My buddy has a Ferrari 812 Superfast. The KIA is faster 🤪 ( doesn’t sound as good mind) Comes with a 7 year warranty but I doubt I’ll need to use it. I got one of the very first cars delivered and so was expecting a few niggles. Nothing, zilch has gone wrong.👏

I'm glad we've finally had some discussion about motor shaft grounding, a function which should be present in every EV motor. It would be helpful to lay out all the shafts and bearings in their relative locations on the table so we have some context as to the overall mechanical architecture, especially how current paths are controlled and geometric constraint is managed. I was also wondering how the grounding brush was kept dry? I didn't see a seal. Where was the ceramic ball-bearing? Tail or output end, or both? Thanks for the videos, you guys make a great team!

ceramic ball bearing are not ceramic coated balls. The balls can be solid or hollow (the hollow ones have extremely high rpm limits)...

Great show guys. Good effort.

Brilliant video guys!!

Good team, Scott's a natural. Thanks.

This is all so clever. Really cool :)

Thank u from Germany. 👍

Wow, excellent job.

They could use the decoupler as a parking brake. Just slide it the opposite way to mesh with fixed set off teeth, and the drive shaft would be locked.

Really neat to see all the reasons (like cooling methods) cheap DIY conversions will never reach the performance/efficiency specs of a reasonably priced fully engineered volume produced vehicle. Hopefully DIY conversions will nonetheless continue getting better/cheaper over time and give a nice hobbyist alternate universe to paying for subscription seat warmers and other such dystopian things. Even if the smaller alternative universe always lags the volume dystopia.

Great info guys. It does make you wonder why the Korean automakers can be this innovative in their EV engineering, but the Japanese automakers are not!

GOOD JOB!

Rocking the full Michigan Mullet.

Is the boost converter use the motor stator as inductor ?

That drivetrain can already do 300 miles. I have done it many times myself in my Ioniq 5. The way the EPA does their test, it seems to be very understated for the Ioniq 5.

I just ran across an article claiming Rivian four-motor owners were experiencing tires wearing out in as little as 6K miles. The problem seems to be centered around using the decoupler AND reducing the ride height in conserve mode. The R1T is a lot of weight to drag around with just two drive,wheels, which increases wear. To add insult to injury, the ride height adjustment appears may change the toe angle, further accelerating tire wear. Rivian’s response for now is to be sure to rotate the tire positions frequently. I don’t know if the Kia has active suspension which may or may not affect tire geometry, but it is a fairly heavy car and the increased load on the tires in two wheel mode is still a thing. Tires are expensive these days, but that expense ball in in the purchaser’s court and not Kia’s.

Please allow me to explain the answer to "Why 800V?": 16:00 Electrical circuits have portions that supply electrical power(typ. battery) and portions that consume power (typ the coils of the motor). Yet other parts carry and/or regulate this power. Recollect that, in the electrical domain, power is the product of a potential "U" (sic. "voltage") [V] and current "I" [A]. This is analogous to the mechanical (rotation) domain, whereby power is the product of the torque [N.m] and angular velocity [rad/s]. Imagine you now have a drive-shaft- would you choose a high torque, with low speed, or high speed with low torque? Remember, a high speed will lead to higher frictional losses in your bearings. A high torque will require a stronger shaft. The electrical dilemma is similar. the higher the potential ('voltage') the lower the current that is needed (for the same power), hence lower electrical losses in the various electrical parts (oversimplifying a bit) - the power-losses again correspond to the potential across 'the other components' times the current - which numerically works out to the same as their resistance times the square of the current - hence the name I-square-R losses. So what determines how high one may push the voltage? It is mostly limited by the available MOSFETs or IGBTs the auto-manufacturer can procure at non-exotic prices, and also the various insulation and safety considerations. Also, sticking to the local standards makes life easy - e.g. 230V in the EU. Multiples of the cell-pack potential is nice too. Oh, btw - conductors are generally massier than insulators - for the same power (and power-loss), you generally also get a _lighter_ machine if the potentials are higher and the currents are correspondingly lower - my educated guess is that the tradeoff's around ~ 1000V/1A to (a ratio corresponding to approx. ~ 1 kOhm). In other words, for a practical 1 kW system, the insulator-mass would dominate if the potential were above 1kV (w/ low current), and the conductor mass would be dominant of the current were above 1A (with a lower potential). Practically, potentials below 50V are generally safe-ish and those above 500V are generally deadly. -->this issue can be circumvented by adding layers to prevent exposing these. All these considerations drive the engineering tradeoff for an optimal electrical subsystem - the current state-of-the-art (2023) puts it squarely at 800V.

the tzero car from AC Propulsion used the motor inverter and the motor coils in the charging process as well

It will be interesting to compare with the Ioniq 5 N if you can get your hands on one of those, around 650 combined HP.

My 2023 IONIQ 6 Limited AWD 320 horsepower in normal driving mode ALWAYS shows a range of over 300 miles at 100% charge. Usually 319 mile range.

How much did going with IGBTs save for the front inverter and was it also from Infineon. Some OEMs like to diversify their semiconductor suppliers for risk mitigation and arguably pricing negotiation.

Hard redundancy should never be underestimated. Regarding parking pawls. Here's a perfect airline example where neglecting redundancy/maintenance leads to bad outcomes. Alaska Airlines Flight 261 a Fatal aviation accident that occured on January 31, 2000 over the Pacific Ocean Alaska Airlines flight of a McDonnell Douglas MD-83. Recommend looking at the accident investigation report. McDonnell Douglas cheaped out on redundancy.

Does the oil pump only spin when the axle spins? Didn't you show some other EV motor that has oil always flowing?

Is the oil in the stator a concern in terms of maintenance service?

Would love to see a dissembled Nio ET5 or another Nio model. Interesting architecture with the battery-swap system etc.

Parking pawls are they way to go for vehicles parked up for extended periods in inclement weathers. Caliper pads should never be left touching brake disks for extended periods or they will rust on to the disk, damaging both. The manual ICE equivalent would be to leave it parked in gear.

Please rewrite the final flip chart so it’s neat and easy to read. Thanks.

Could you provide a insight on the particular drive trains on the new 2024 Hyundai Ioniq 5 N?

Good job guys, thanks. But tell Sandy to make an explanation why Cory left. I guess that thousands of people who have liked him along the way deserve it.

WRT the decoupler, how quickly can that respond? What happens if you go from highway cruising to wide open throttle? Does it screw the shift fork back the other way and reconnect the front axle as fast as an automatic transmission would downshift?

Whoa!

26:29 No. The purpose of ceramic coatings (on balls or rings) is to avoid current running from the inner ring over the balls to the outer ring. On classical bearings there would occur "micro sparcs", damaging the inner and outer ring. Basic mechanical/electrical engineering.

When you guys get done with with this, can I buy a book like I did with the model Y?

Why would you use a boost converter to get to 800 volts from 400 in stead of just splitting the battery pack in two 400 volt packs and have a contactor that switches between wiring the two halves in series or parallell to achieve 800 or 400 volt?

"High points"? Looks like a permanent magnet reluctance motor on the rear drive, but they never talked about it. 🙏🙏Please talk about the actual motor as well. Love the walkthrough video and I love the Munro group giving us all the answers that are so hard to find otherwise.

Wow, the price of SIC MOSFET (white part of inverter) is insane. Roughly $3,000. But it is crucial component for higher efficiency.

Both RWD and AWD Teslas have free rolling front wheels when parked, making it easier for them to lose traction when parked on snowy inclines. This surprises many owners, as they're used to AWD gas cars where the parking pawl effectively locks both front and rear wheels. So, while I agree there is no need for parking pawls in EVs, I do think they should include electronic parking brakes on all 4 wheels. It wasn't clear in this video whether Hyundai includes a parking pawl on the front, rear, or both. Given the parking brakes on the rear, I would argue it would make more sense to include the pawl only on the front drivetrain.

nice video .......

Unless I misheard what is a "high voltage monument "? Did they mean to say "module"?

Well done fellas! But I still miss Cory 😢

How does the tesla grounding solution not create a ton of drag? It must be actually riding on the ID of a bearing rather than directly on the rotor?

What about using an induction motor in the front instead?

Re AWD decoupling savings, can the drag of the engaged but unenergized front motor not be negated by reducing the energy supplied to the rear motor and simultaneously applying that low level of power to the front motor? Also, isn't there a handling hit when passing, either caused by no available AWD or by its abrupt engagement?

The rear inverter seems clever but it can only handle 230A @ 455Vdc. The Taycan use an add-on component but it can handle 350A @ ≈ 400Vdc

On the decoupler information, the range on the RWD Ioniq 5, which does not have a decoupler, is 303 miles so no benefit there. The AWD version is 266 miles, so it gets them above the 250 mile threshold. Now on the Ioniq 6 SE AWD, it gets Hyundai well above the real 300 mile limit.

Do you guys know to which extent these designs and preductions parts may be the work of Rimac? From easy on in their BEV journey, Rimac has been said to be involved?

Interesting reveal on the power electronics in that the rear inverter uses MOSFETs and the front unit employs IGBTs. If I am recalling my history properly, early EVs used MOSFETs (the EV1 used MOSFETs), but the industry switched to IGBTs due to their higher current carrying capacity. However, Tesla went back to MOSFETs after finding a way to engineer in Silicon Carbide (SiC), which cost less but could carry the current load. It seems the industry transitioned to SiC MOSFETs. I think Munro has called out SiC MOSFETs being employed in the Rivian inverter. Therefore it is interesting to see Hyundai going with IGBTs in the front inverter (which assumedly uses less power??). Would love to hear why they made that move.

A couple of questions/comments regarding oil cooling. Glycol/water has a much greater capacity to absorb heat, but it adds complexity and maintenance problems such as corrosion and the need for a system of pumps, heat exchangers and connectors. Does the oil need to be optimized for lubrication or heat absorption? I am assuming that the oil will be kept at somewhere near 100C+/- Suzuki high performance motorcycles used a system of air/oil cooling (Suzuki Advanced Cooling System) where the cylinders and head had fine pitch fins and a heat exchanger, but was able to avoid using all the extra water plumbing stuff. Beyond a certain point though, engines produce so much heat that air/oil is inadequate.

I think the redundant parking pawl is a necessary redundancy. EPBs are not necessarily bullet proof. There are a couple of failure points in those systems

If they put a short across the motor wouldn't that act as a brake?

Actually, adding the coupler most likely saved weight vs. adding 4.8kwh worth of battery. About the parking pawl - I just bought an Ionic 5 and I can hear the EPB actuating each time I put the vehicle into Park, so I think the pawl is redundant. Yes, I agree that they could probably just rely on the EPB, but I suspect that they decided to keep the pawl for now while they evaluate how robust their EPB system is. I wouldn't be surprised if they eliminate it on future generations. Preventing roll-aways is a huge safety issue, so I can understand being a bit conservative with this.

24:46 I have a dirty mind 😂

It is my understanding that ipedal can be used only if both motors are engaged to maximize regen. So which is more efficient? Using the single motor in economy mode to reduce drag associated with the front motor or keeping both motors engaged to maximize regenerative braking? Thanks

I read somehwere that the front motors are changing to a more efficient silicon invertor or something in the next model year.

12:43 The 4th lead to use the inverter as a buck or boost converter is also an idea that I have seen 10 years ago on powerfull ebike aftermarket motor controller. Where one of the 3 phases output was used as power stage to PWM an external coil in order to boost voltage from any external DC voltage source between 10V to Vbatt so it was possible to recharge a 90V battery using a simple 12, 24, 36 or 48V cheap power supply. The company was ADAPTTO, a russian company that I have represented at the 2015 at the las vegas INTERBIKE event. The idea was fantastic because as you said it use an already included power stage to PWM and buck or boost the voltage so it is an efficient way to use at maximum all integrated components! ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-m49j_piYG-Y.html

So using the inverter in the motor to boosts the voltage to 800 volts to charge the pack from a 400volt charger. Makes sense on Kyle’s videos (out of spec reviews) charging the lucid the car jerks forward. Lucid must have something going on in the inverter assuming that the inverter is boosting the voltage to charge the 800 volt pack.

Assuming the 800v battery voltage is because of multiple cells in series could smaller groups of cells be charged in parallel at 400v? No conversion needed just some extra conductors

so you gotta change the oil?

9:55 You need to put “We did some math.” on a t-shirt. 😅

I received my Ioniq5 AWD right when it was launched. After some months, my front engine was making grinding noises when the engine was disengaged and decoupled. I suspect that the decoupler didn't separate cleanly. The engine was replaced under warranty. Many people on the internet have confirmed this problem. I hope Hyundai was able to solve the problem permanently. I ended up selling the car even though I loved it very much because I didn't need such a big vehicle.

@21:00 I forsee service issues one day when the thermal paste has dried out and these components needs to be repasted much like you see now in CPUs and their heat sinks. Is there a automotive thermal paste that lasts longer?

This E-GMP platform looks well engineered and very capable. I can't help but ask, however, if you have any insights to the IMA platform that will replace it…? Will these motors remain the same, but Hyundai will simply install different, longer batteries in the same pack…?

Hyundia E-GMP is Rear biased AWD, I think that is the term you were looking for.

I have a 2022 IONIQ 5 that had an oil leak from the plate cooler on the front motor. I think it was the small plate cooler on your table. The part took about 2 months to receive and cost around $800 Canadian. Should I expect a reduced life expectancy on the front motor due to lower lubrication pressure? Should I take this issue up with Hyundai and ask for additional warranty coverage on the motor?

Kindness is still free.

It is the fact that the cables can be lighter guage ( when using high voltage ) and hence cheaper. You kept on saying voltage, but it is LOWER CURRENT when using high voltage. You missed this point completely. It is exactly the same reason they use 220KV transmission lines to keep the current down when moving huge amounts of power.

Since one of the motors already has a mechanical disconnect on it, the parking pall could be eliminated by simply giving the ring a locked 3rd position.

Are you guys going to rip apart an ioniq 5N powertrain and compare? Would be awesome to see what they changed to get the power doubled!

How do you prevent the front wheels from spinning when parked on a steep incline front up in a rear wheel drive EV?

A vehicle that had a motor in each wheel that didn't constantly power both front and rear wheels would have a similar efficiency loss but might have gained more by eliminating differentials.