Hyundai Kona vs VW ID4 charging efficiency in cold weather 

IMHO if it gets 11kW at lower SOC yes, it's ok.

@@asaha7547 I assume the ID.4 charging characteristics would be different if it was at a lower soc than what it was in the video, which was a pretty high soc. The ID.4 also had it considerably worse than the Kona, was sitting out in the cold without being driven for a few days and it was colder on the day Bjorn tested the ID.4 than the day he tested the Kona.

Batterylife channel did a comparison of charging losses on 2kw AC VS 7KW Vs 50kw DC. you got the most losses from 2kw. To keep the cars BMS computer on it was using 200w, so the extra time you need to charge Via 2kw AC you're increasing your losses from auxiliary systems. Yes current is lower so heat losses might be too but other factors at play.

the battery conditioning is only related to DC charging not AC, i thought this as well, in my Niro it made no difference still heated the battery on AC

@@ianrobins5501 In IONIQ 5 its for both. Very weird implementation.

Some cars have that option.

There is always a cost. If the cold batteries are being charged they aren't accepting it efficiently. Also it shortens their lifespan a bit more than normal charging.

I have set my daily refill MY to timer charge in the app and around 14:00 when it's usually warmest outside. I have fix electric rate. And then I always fill in up when I get home from driving to take care of the all ready heated battery. If I run the heater due to snow (not defrost) I charge too because the battery are been heated anyway.

@@bernhardleopold6702 it is only tru when you yo-yo car, when you are driving more or las with constant speed the battery will be cold - especially during day-to day use when you are driving just 10-30km from work to home. In the summer the 11kW is always the best option. in winter to be honest I do not know. maybe u will use extra 2kWh to warm up the battery but on the other hand you will charge 4-5 faster and 4-5 hours of charging will "cost" 2,4-3kWh. Anyway, in my case this 2kWh is not worth spending time to figure it out so this is just Academic problem/for fun problem for me ;)

In the Kona system, the charging time would be the same either way, 11kw + heating = 5kw delivered (there about), or no heating at 5kw….. plus ca change, except cost that is! The answers is to live in a warmer climate or park the EV in the living room! But then if you live in a very hot climate, the AC in a M3 barely works after “heat soaking” as the heat pump works to preferentially cool the battery!

@@flowntn1989 no, it wont be the same, after the battery gets warmer all 11kWh will go into the battery while for 5kWh you will get it all the time.

Charging losses are related to the internal resistance of the Li-ion battery at different charge levels. Not only for this reason, the ideal charge level range is 20-80% SoC. Several studies on this can be found on the Internet... "lithium-ion battery internal resistance vs soc".

@@pavelblaha5243 in theory maybe - while I've never experienced that with my Ioniq. While charging on AC, I often times calculate losses while it's still being charged. When e.g. starting at 20%, with a warm battery, the losses decrease from oddly high numbers (see above) in the beginning and decreasing to like 9% when going towards the end - usually I stop at 80%, but even when going towards 100% I still get slightly beter effinciency - until at the end the car throttles charging below my usual 4 kW. Then the onboard charger's effienciency goes down and I have repeatedly verified, that the over-all effieciency decreases only in this very late state towards 10% losses. 100% State of charge displayed are 95% real state of charge (BMS) btw, to this I've been talking about SOC display, cause that's what we all get to see. Yesterday, I've been adding 4.x kW, warm battery charge directly after a long drive and HPC charge in the middle of that drive, recharged at my walllbox 25% to 36% using 4.0 kWh. For my 28 kWh battery, that's 30% losses (edit: had another look at the chargin protocol [EVnotify] corrected 37% to 36%). So that's well within your "best" figures, but still the efficiency was way worse than if I'd have charged to 80% or more. So I end like I started: Your firgures are correct (for a certain battery type and chemistry) for the bare cells or ecen pack, but not in reality, where there's an onboard charger with it's characteristics and a car with it's running systems while charging, which also pull electricity. And the car's management system overall, which maybe tries to warm or cool the battery - which wasn't the case yesterday. Just had a look, it started at 21°C and it ended at 21°C (and the inlet temp also didn't change, so it wasn't heated) - and took 56 minutes. Long story short - that's theory vs real life.

This is so country and car dependent that everyone needs to figure it out on their own :)

Indeed. But knowing what those charging losses are in winter for different models is something we cannot figure out for ourselves.

@@PhilippeDHooghe well any ESEV will tell you how much kWh went thru it and the car will tell you how much went into battery jus subtract one from the other and you should know the losses

I can do this for mine, yes. Not for every model there is on the market.

Plug in after driving and the battery is warm.

That one is now showing correctly.

In summer?

@@bjornnyland No, on average of 96.000 km so far. I always charge at home with 11 kW AC with my Zappi V2

Cell voltage balancing should be done continuously, not just at full charge.

I noticed in the Nissan Leaf that losses occur when charging above 90% (more like 95%). Previously, what the energy meter reports agrees with what Leaf Spy shows. When charging further to 100%, according to Leaf Spy, the energy does not increase and the energy meter still registers consumption. In the case of Kona and ID4, there is also the issue of heating the battery, which results in additional losses.@@pavelblaha5243

These cars have top buffer so 100 % on display is about 96 % real SoC.

@@bjornnyland You can try anyway.

agreed, I saw this on the old Leaf, 97-100% seemed to take a lot from the plug, but giving little charge, especially during winter.

o co chodzi? ID5? tam chyba zbyt duza strata baterii. Liepej zrob jazde testwej MY oraz ID5. Model Y bardzo twarda.

@@ecomasterster no wstępnie wziąłem Teslę Y standard rangę mam jeszcze kilka dni na ogarnięcie wszystkiego /utwierdzenie się w decyzji