Hyundai N Vision 74 Becoming An EV For Production, Rivian Rewards Referrals Kick Off 

In France we have more and more 11k chargers at the gym, movie theater, grocery store (often they have 50k chargers there as well), malls, on city streets. If priced right they get used. Workplace charging is huge as well. The issue we have now is the payment system. Apps are a pain, most don’t have credit card readers, but we can use RFID charge cards if all else fails. Lots of old chargers in villages (installed when the Renault Zoe was new) don’t have a screen and are very temperamental. But sometimes I can get one of them to work 😅

I live in Los Angeles and don’t have the same issues because I charge during off peak hours. I never understand why people prefer to pay more to charge to 100 percent during the day. The lines would move faster if people are only charging what they need to get them to the night time off peak charging during the day.

Over due for a trip out to Colorado anyways, would love to join for the OOS Hub opening!

"i'm pretty good at energy management" Kyle 2024..."only blew up my old house once" Kyle also 2024...good luck hehe...you'll be fine

Great info, great conversation flow.

I agree with Kyle. Rev are the best to train people for EVs. Phev is a close second . Pure hybrid with no plugin options really is just a ICE vehicle with good mileage. It doesn’t train people for the battery lifestyle.

Martyn, you’re right to use the phrase ‘use case’ as a practical and hassle free experience depends on peoples expectations. My wife and share m i3S and charge overnight on Mondays and Fridays so she can start her working week with a full charge and we can enjoy the car over our three day weekends. It’s so simple and when we go on a longer journey, we just plan where we’re going to stop and pay the high prices knowing it needs to be profitable to be worth someone’s while to invest and maintain. A podcast dedicated to the various ‘use cases’ out there in the real world would do wonders for adoption.

Congrats to Kyle for figuring out a safe use for a Cybertruck!

We've had a Bolt almost 6 years, 99,000 miles and we've fast charged it 6 times. We AC charge at home.

15:53 Savant makes some pretty easy to install load management that you can install on each circuit.

Single phase 480/277 legs at 60A would be HUGE 13.2kW

32:50, I did the math because I was curious. If we assume a cost of $.2/kwh, at say 6kw of power off of a typical chargepoint l2 charger, that is (6*24*.2)= $28.80 a day (in revenue) assuming 100% utilization across 24 hours. 1800/28.8/day = 62.5 days. That is revenue, not profit, not sure what your rate was from the utility, so lets assume you are doing .10/kwh from utility, so now we are at 125 days to recoup the cost assuming the absolute ideal utilization of 100% which is incredibly unlikely (unless you are in Cali apparently haha). Absolutely makes the case for cheaper gear and incentives being needed to make it worth your time if you want to make any money off of it.

I would think we need to adopt the bring your own cable design for level two. This would bring cost down for the provider and also bring maintenance down as well.

I really don't know why Rivian didn't start this program sooner, its a no brainer.

If you want to do smart load shedding, the Span Service Panel is a really good option. It’s all app controlled and you can prioritize every circuit individually depending on what’s happening in any given moment.

Drove by the first pubically known Ionna charging location in Houston this past week and it’s just blocked off with tape and the building in the spot is still standing. No idea how much longer til they move the building or move some dirt yet

About hydgrogen power... Ask 10 people, you'll get eleven opinions. :)

Good point on the Equinox. I have a Bolt EUV as a second car. I have needed to charge it on a fast charger 1 time for 15 minutes in 8 months and 13,000 miles. Some don’t need crazy fast charging.

All backup systems offer and allow for load management. I have a Generac and I have their load mgmt module. You tell that which devices are lowest priority.

Depending on your a/c condenser size, it can pull close to 120a on start up. (And there’s a solution to that high amp draw when using a generator or other backup: installing a soft starter not a “hard start kit”, a soft starter) on the condenser.

Honda should be jumping on the extended range EV route. They make fantastic generators!

Most municipalities won’t pass the inspection without load management if the power source can’t power the full service.

The Ultium EVs perplex me so much. Since the Volt came out in 2011, GM had over a decade to develop their ground-up EV platform, so one might expect it to be groundbreaking in terms of technology and specs. Instead, it's been pretty mid-pack.

You can charge range extenders that are coming. They are phev without drive shaft from ICE.

The charging is the reason I won't look at equinox. I travel multiple times a year and adding more time to charging is just bad. Chevy, Gm what the hell were you thinking?

1:30:15 The benefit of direct is no haggle and no rigamarole, if the dealer contract that Polestar has with those dealerships still gets rid of that, who cares how it's defined Kyle?

Some of us focus too much on charging speed. With AC charging, 10 kW - 11 kW is fine. With DC charging, 150 kW is fine. The changes required to get 250-350 kW with a cheap car like the Equinox would just be an unwise expenditure. It was just a couple of years ago that we were all driving LG Bolts and were lucky to see 50 kW at a DC charger. Most of us will never drive an EV cross country, or if we do it's likely to be a once per lifetime event. If we are on an extended trip, if we have to spend half an hour at a DC charging station, it's really not a big deal. Having said this, we might perceive that there is still a weakness at the dealership level because their sales staff are still not explaining the lifestyle changes required of new EV owners. The dealership should discuss charging more intelligently. Does the purchaser have the ability to have 220 volt charging? If not, is the battery big enough to let them get by charging on 120 volts over a weekend (thinking. of Alex's neighbour). Failing all that, does the prospective buyer have a high amperage DC station close enough to be of use? We're also probably never going to be interested in connecting our vehicles to our homes, unless it's an emergency. And speaking of that brings us to wondering why everybody's worried about not having a front trunk. For many of us, we're just better off having the smaller car and an uncovered, easier to reach accessory battery just because if there ever is an emergency, it is easier to connect an inverter and extension cords. Tom's right that a lot of us will just never need DC charging and we focus too much on the kW speed of that charging. Personally, I've tested EVgo, Electrify America and Tesla (with adapter) to be sure they all work and that plug & charge is perfect...but have never *needed* DC charging the first time with this car.

1:26:22 😂 Kyle giving the face to the family health reason to exit Nikola

Hi, I understood that some EVs request more power from a DC charger for the ac/heating, instead of using some of the supplied current.

Full Kyle this episode. Yay!

Toms Equinox looks very nice, the black car, black wheels. Good combination.

For those that are frustrated with the high cost of ac chargers… the answer is Tesla universal chargers. $600 with loadsharing. We’re installing 24 at our office sharing 400A. Cost was 1/5 of chargepoint and no annual fees.

Great show again guys thank you very much. I do miss the charm of Dom narrating the show though.

1:14:49 Series Hybrids will never have as good of efficiency as parallel hybrids due to the additional conversion losses. That is why the i3 never had that impressive of fuel economy vs. say a Prius. The Clarity has a parallel mode, much like the Volt, hence its very good fuel economy.

Re: referral programs; I got my brother-in-law to pre-order an EV6 when I pre-ordered mine back in 2022; the terrible KIA dealer told me they usually offer a tank of gas for a referral, so he asked me to send him a photo of my first DC fast charge session (the car was delivered at 35% SoC)... The 10 minute session at Electrify Canada cost $6...

EA is a huge problem, we need better alternative charging like Tesla. Every EA station in City/Suburbia should be a minimum of 8 chargers or more depending on density

1:20:48 😂😂Tom

The availability of transformers is a major factor slowing DC fast charging installations. Selling hybrids won’t help expand the US public EV charging infrastructure.

I'm not too fond of these China tariffs because they are not only trying to save American brands but also Japanese brands like Toyota, Mazda, Nissan, and others that haven't put much effort into transitioning. Hopefully, they'll partner up with a few of our startup automakers, a GM, or Ford to make their vehicles stateside.

55:36 800V components cost more to OEMs. Luxury brands have enough margin to absorb the delta, but others are bleeding on deploying 800V systems. I praise those who did outside of the luxury segment, but won't be happy as an investor.

All the EREV engines have been designed to run on hydrogen based e-fuel. Although expensive currently you don’t require as much so EREV’s will become very clean and then why bother to plug in ? Nice to hear Bevangelist’s finally getting real in their discussions.

Australia is getting heaps of Chinese EVs as well as the Smart #5. Without a local car industry to protect, we are getting spoilt for choice and US/EU brand should watch out. We still don't have a single EV from VW here in Australia yet 😂

Martyn how will it affect the the UK with the increase in the cost of electricity

AC charging at stores and malls will only be effective if it is faster than 6.6kW. That gives me about 12 miles of range per hour. I don’t know anyone who grocery shops for more than 40 minutes, and I’m shopping for a family of 5. When the stores where I live are all 10 miles away, if I stayed for an hour, I would recoup a little over half of the drive. There’s very little value to me in that. I’ll take it, but come on.

Can confirm. I drove the dual motor Equinox RS and it was sluggish.

Martyn, it would be great for you to share the European position more on these podcasts. We just don’t see the charger clogging that our US friends report. Whether that’s because we have better infrastructure or the culture of charging at home is stronger, but it would be great to make clear that the problems being discussed are localised to the US and even then localised to a small number of locations. Even most people in US cities can charge at home It is odd that apartment living gets to much discussion time when there are 90 million houses in America, 82 million of them detached and the vast majority will have off street parking. The vast majority of Americans do not live in condos, they can park at home and level 2 home charging will be simple and inexpensive. That should be the dominant narrative, not “LA is crazy”- it was crazy long before BEVs came along

PA has an EV road tax as well. The tax is $250 per year and pegged to inflation. With a PA gas tax of $0.576 per gallon you need to buy 434 gallons per year to break even. Averaging 25 miles per gallon you need to drive 10,850 miles. What is the NJ tax? PA also charges $63 for Phev vehicles.

30:58 sigh …. Battery swapping

Topic of Elon slow playing their adapter and charging network CCS promises should be deep dived. Was it his realization of the loss of tesla vehicle sales with all the newer better competition that has come online, not to mention the high interest rates and slowing jobs numbers affecting the ability to buy new vehicles for consumers?

36:00 I just have to jump in here and say, AHA, I told you so! All I've heard you guys talk about so far is LEVEL 2 & LEVEL 3 Chargers. What about good old LEVEL 1 outlets? Currently, nearly 35% of Americans live in Apartment Buildings or Condos and they have ZERO ability to charge overnight. Instead of governments spending billions in incentives for "High Speed Level 3" infrastructure, perhaps they ought to start incentivizing Landlords to install simple 120 Volt electrical outlets in EACH parking spot? The cost of such installations is miniscule compared to Level 2 and 3 outlets. A 120 Outlet can supply 12 Amps continuous which translates to 1.4 Kilowatt Hours each hour. From 7:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m., that would yield 16.8 Kilowatt Hours of energy. That is enough energy to move virtually ANY Electric Vehicle or PHEV over 50 miles. The average U.S. driver travels less than 40 miles per day AND nobody gives a damn what their vehicle is doing while they're sleeping! Also, when' was the last time you saw a 120 Volt outlet go down? Additionally no thief is going to be ripping electrical outlets out of the wall to gain access to a bit of 12 gauge copper wire. Case in point: I currently live in a 140 unit apartment building. IF each parking space had a Level 1 outlet and EVERYBODY was charging their vehicle at the same time, that would cause a load on the electrical grid of 1.4 Kilowatts times 140 units = 196 Kilowatts of energy. Conversely, a SINGLE Tesla Supercharger can stress the grid for 250 Kilowatts of energy AND that could be happening during Prime Time on the hottest day of the summer when everybody has their Air Conditioner running. Rather than stressing the electrical grid, such a move could actually help stabilize it by shifting demand to Off Peak Hours. Base load generation could actually be increased during the nighttime hours to meet this need. After listening to the conversation in this video, all of sudden "Plug-In Hybrids" don't seem like such a bad idea, do they??? I've owned such a vehicle for 3 years now and it has been WONDERFUL. I have Zero Range Anxiety and it handily exceeds it's EPA electrical range when driving around the city. When I'm on a Road Trip and travelling on the highway which yields the best fuel economy anyway, I place the vehicle in "Sport Mode" which forces the engine to keep running. While doing this, it will actually recharge the battery faster than a Level 2 Charger. When I get to the next city, I switch back to EV Mode for all that stop and go traffic. Perhaps the EV Charging dilemma will eventually get resolved but for me personally at this stage of the game, it's Plug-In Hybrid all the way!

It gets very expensive when you start thinking about doing solar buying a cybertruck cost of a generator just to run your house when the power goes out is a lot cheaper cheaper

hydrogen is a non-starter for passenger transportation, it does seem to be a bit more sensible for trucks and airplanes. Also, hybrids still burn gas and that is bad, shame that poor infrastructure is holding back adoption not just cost

The hydrogen problem isn't infrastructure. It's the cost to manufacturer hydrogen being 4x more than gasoline or diesel. This isn't going to change.

Polestar has to disappear at least in the USA. Sorry to disappoint!

This crazy Hyundai hydrogen supercar will be limited to 200 units and will be sold in 2026 for 230,000-380,000 us dallors.And it's not something that anyone can buy, it's something that's only sold to amateur enthusiasts after interviews.

Is the LA charging problem only non-Tesla charging? I was there last weekend and had zero issue charging in several locations around LA in my Tesla. Lots of empty charging spots.

I’m sorry, Kyle but buying a Polestar is absolutely nothing like buying a car at a dealership. There is signing papers at a Volvo dealer in many of the spaces, but it is nothing like the haggling and BS of buying a car at a normal dealership. It is dramatically closer to the Tesla experience. I have bought two of them and I have no idea what you’re talking about. Yes, your service is at a Volvo dealership. That has nothing to do with the buying experience. 1:30:33

I’m sorry, Kyle but buying a Polestar is absolutely nothing like buying a car at a dealership. There is signing papers at a Volvo dealer in many 1:30:09 of the spaces, but it is nothing like the haggling and BS of buying a car at a normal dealership. It is dramatically closer to the Tesla experience. I have bought two of them and I have no idea what you’re talking about. Yes, your service is at a Volvo dealership. That has nothing to do with the buying experience.

You guys are just plain missing the point on charging and speed with the Equinox. I dcfc maybe once every three months. I never run below 20% and never charge over 80% at a dcfc site. Most normal folks operated this way. This car charges just fine and the speed is quite acceptable Normal folks do not drive like you guys and not many ever go as low in the pack either. Lets be real world folks.

I'm ready to buy an electric car. I have the money burning a hole in my pocket. My requirements are the NAC port in the car, 300 mile range, and most importantly vehicle to load to power two refrigerators. Does anyone know of a car being made today? What about in 2025? Any chance the new Tesla model Y will have the inverter and circuitry that the cyber truck has?