@@carlosivandegodoy The film has been in the works for more than a year! Yes, I interviewed Jocelyn, last June. We did it remotely - I was in Los Angeles and our DP Tom Welsh was in the UK. We used a special safety protocol so that Jocelyn never came in close contact/the same airspace with anyone during the shoot. Our editor Mónica Salazar spent many weeks editing the film - lot of hours by a lot of talented people!
I'm an actual pulsar & radio astronomer, and I just wanted to say that among our community, there's probably not a single one of us who doesn't know of Jocelyn Bell and her fundamental contribution to the field we all work in. She hasn't been forgotten by us, and I don't think it's possible that she ever will.
gravitational wave astrophysics here: same! My own thesis is surrounding neutron stars. Amazing to think that something that is so important now across all of the astro-genres was discovered by a graduate student. And one who didn't get the proper credit, at that.
@Umer Qaiser I mean, you can search it up on the award website and scholarship website. She only kept about 7 % of the funds! Although I guess there's no point in telling ignorant politically-polarized people like yourself that.
Many have done great things that will never be credited to them, thanks to horrible people and the ways that they behave. This woman is brilliant, and brave. Not only brave to walk the path she chose, but braver and stronger still to share her difficulties and help the world learn from them. We only have survived this long because we *LEARN*
She may not have been given the Nobel, but she proved to be noble. Look at just what she did with those 3 millions! What a role model she is herself, indeed! :)
I once attended a public lecture she was giving in my home town while I was still in high school. After the lecture, I asked her if he had any adive for girls going into physics, and she simply replied: “Only to go into physics.” This stuck with me through the hard years of undergrad and now I am doing a PhD at a prestigious university. I am so greatful to have met her, she really is a role model to so many of us.
i support equal participation of women in the male dominated jobs that they conveniently don't want to do like construction, fishing, plumbing, etc!!!!!! There is too much oppression of women there less than 1% participation is way too misogynistic
@@AC-mp7cx Every one of my experiences exploring the trades was met with a load of misogyny. I graduated high school in 1980. I wonder how much difference there is today, if any. I almost never see women working in a car repair shop (unless it's her own) or a construction site.
My daughter got a degree in P Chem. She is a wizard at thermo - I have quizzed her (Naval Nuke). She prefers the social sciences. She graduates in that at the end of November.
@@surfaceten510n Yes, but those that mattered new the truth. It is just sad that it was not corrected for the world to know and those usurpers to be taken down.
What a wonderful human being. I didn't just learn about pulsars, sexism, and justice, I learned about kindness, elegance, personal values, perspective, and giving back. Funnily enough already forgot name of chap who took the prize, his smallness has made him vanish from my mind already.
It's heart-breaking that her Nobel Prize wasn't awarded to her, but heart-warming that Fred Hoyle stood up for her. If Hoyle hadn't made a fuss about it, Bell may never have gotten any recognition for her work.
Because he understands how much perseverance and hard work goes into discovering and pushing knowledge beyond the scope, so he probably felt strongly that she requires this recognition
It is totally normal. The principal investigator usually gets the prize. Wikipedia noted she said: "I believe it would demean Nobel Prizes if they were awarded to research students, except in very exceptional cases, and I do not believe this is one of them." However, if Hewish was discouraging of her interpretation at the beginning, I don't know if he should have been on the prize. I don't know how he presented the work.
@@AshiStarshade i agree, its a group effort, she was the researcher he was the leader of the team, without him there is no research, without her they would just hire another researcher, he gets the price, is not about gender. a special mention would have been nice tho
@@Sideshow-Bob without her efforts pulsars may have never been discovered or at best years in the future…..her persistence is what made this happen, the lead astronomer had declared this as nothing but noise.
@@rahard Hoyle of course had his own experience of being an outsider, being from a fairly ordinary background, a Northerner, and later a champion of a number of ideas that were definitely not mainstream. I would think this might have made him more sensitive to the unfairness that Bell experienced.
@@erickm119 2.3 million pounds was, at that time, 3 million dollars. She called it dollars herself. It depends on the reporting as to which monetary unit is used. It spends the same.
@12:40 Her definition of a pulsar to visually show how Newton, Einstein, and Hoyle all got the spotlight, while she as a woman didn't was so poignant and moving. To whoever came up with that scene...that was beautiful journalism. Thank you.
The confidence she's exuding is so impressive to watch. The pain in her eyes of not being credited at the time of Nobel is so evident. A great soul. God bless her !
She's over it and has had a wonderful life doing what she wanted. The whole scientific world knows it's all her discovery as she spotted it and knew it was an anomaly. She said she wasn't that bothered at the time being pushed out of the frame. The sexism and taunts form sexist bigots affected her much more than having the Prize stolen from her. I really don't think she would change anything now. I love her and wish I had followed in her footsteps becoming an astronomer. Such an exciting field and can't wait for Kepler to begin data gathering. It's going to blow the doors off everything that went before such as Hubble.
@@MICKEYISLOWD the prize was not stolen from her because she said clearly that Tony Hewish was the one who had the idea of the research and financed the project so he own the project fair and square sorry she had been neglected because she was the student and the underated woman but beside of that she received many prizes and honours for this particular discovery other than Nobel prize which is frankly biased prize and politicaly motivated and we saw it many times particularly the Nobel peace prize, the ones who need to get over it are the people who are emotional for it for no rational reason
@@abedbbb7083 He didn’t finance the project of discovering pulsars, he was searching for quasars. She discovered pulsars. She was the one who claimed that it wasn’t an interference and that this was something new. She was instrumental and should have received the reward. People like you who say “people are emotional for it for no rational reason” seem to not be understanding how many times similar situation happened where women were ignored and how many men use arguments like "How many women won nobel price in science?" as an argument for how men are superior. I m not saying Hewish should not have been credited or that he shouldn't have received the award, but he did attempt to minimize her role instead of acknowledging her and trying his best for her to be included as well.
@@veles1415 look what matters is not me not you not the opinion of people if the one who was unjusted did not get his justice then anything said or done is useless needless to say that she was acknowledged for her role later and the talk was about this particular case so don't project your understanding of this comment as beeing mine it stills yours i am not saying that women are inferior and i am not denying that some brilliant women were ignored or their work was stolen and you should ve understood from what i said that the Nobel prize is not the reference and should not be because is biased and not every great mind got it let us take an example do you know Sir Ronald Fisher? this man had shaped science as we know it he was behind a huge improvment in experimental design especially for clinical trials he literally made medecine a real science and he is probably the most famous Statistician ever beside beeing a Geneticist that revived the theory of evolution and established Population genetics his name is everywhere he developed so many statistical tests named after him but guess what?! he was not awarded any Nobel prize so if this man did not got it and he is way more influential than Ms Bell and he affected all kind of science as we know it so what it is wrong with this prize or with its committe ? do you think of it as a reference ?
Grad students usually do all the science work while professors just write grant proposals to fund the research and hog all the credit. This story is very typical of academia.
@@sebalutz Did you watch the whole video? She wasn’t the one who made a fuss, it was Hoyle. She said she was happy to be part of a big event and said she wasn’t bothered knowing as a student and woman it was a big thing to have even been included. She wasn’t a “feminist woman” she talks about just loving astronomy and pursuing her passion despite opposition due to her gender. She didn’t demand anything for being a woman.
@@sebalutz Why can't two scientists be recognized? She interpreted it as something novel. He did not. Have you had bad experiences with woman whom you describe as feminist?
@@catherinebeaubruncooper9689 the NYT is famous for grifting on these topics and give a heavy Leftist spin to things that shouldn’t have any and should be told for what they are (like the life of an amazing person like Jocelyn Bell). Just by reading the title you can see that it underlines the obvious feminist narrative that: “a woman did all the work to win the Nobel but instead the Patriarchy gave it to a man who unjustly took all the credit (because men are bad)”. It wasn’t titled: “the wonderful life of the incredible female astrophysicist who discovered pulsars”, because sadly fostering a certain political narrative is more important to the NYT than to give actual credit to amazing people that have passed their whole lives studying and splitting their brains on theorems and calculations so that human knowledge could progress.
@@adolfolerito6744 I'm sorry, but are u denying the well known fact the PAST WAS PATRIARCHAL? Its one thing to say modern times IN THE WEST arent, its another thing altogether to say it wasn't so even decades ago. U have been watching WAY too much Ben Shapiro.
@@yarakharam5343 Someone with a vagina made history, in the video that you're watching... Not to mention that you came out of one when you were born... Be humble
What a delightful, gracious and intelligent woman. This is a great acknowledgement to the true discoverer of Pulsars. She may have been "the man on the mast that shouts land ho" but it was the "moronic" ship's captain Hewish that first dismissed the signals and couldn't recognize the shore until she brought him some sand from the beach in the form of the expanded graph. He should never have accepted the prize on his own. Even his mother should be ashamed of him for that!
Hollywood cannot make a movie that ends in such a disappointing way. The ending would have to change to her driving a muscle car onto the Nobel stage fishtail the "bad physicist" into the crowd and claiming the prize at gunpoint. If only they could get the late great Tura Satana to play her character.
As a female science graduate, I’m so grateful to these incredible women who have paved the way for us to be able to build our careers without prejudice and with pride. Thank you Jocelyn!
@sabin97 no, the men did not pave the way for women in science. In fact common practice was to gatekeep scientific education from women, since they apparently used to "belong in the kitchen". While growing up, if everyone around you that resembles you is working at home, and not allowed to pursue higher education, your mind is not open to the idea that hmm, maybe I can be a scientist as well because no one like you has done it before
@@sabin97 Yes, they were. but were they freely seen as equals by some male scientists at that time? and don't project your hatred on modern woke (western) feminists on me, because neither me and my statements have connection to those. I'm just simply answering your question with facts.
@@sabin97 "Women's pursuit of an equal, in-depth, high-level education as adults has met many stumbling blocks over the centuries: inferior standards (or the complete absence) of education for young girls, beliefs in women's intellectual inferiority, and worries that education in non-domestic subjects wouldn't adequately prepare women for their "natural" role as wives and mothers..." (I cannot put its link because of RU-vid moderation, but its article is titled "Here's How Women Fought For The Right To Be Educated.")
She gave a lecture to some schools in my area about how pulsars were discovered and yet she mentioned nothing of the nobel prize scandal and her struggle to get into stem. She is so incredibly humble and genuinely seems to enjoy science for the sake of science. What an incredible story, and an even more incredible person to have emerged from it
Despite the obvious unfairness in this story, the fact remains that nobody remembers his name, whereas anybody mildly interested in astronomy knows who Jocelyn Bell is. So I say screw the nobel prize and focus on public awareness which in the end is what legacies are made of.
I mean, you're right. But I still want Dr Bell to get her Nobel prize because the mere act of correcting this injustice "on the record" as it were would make future injustices less likely.
@@TheHongKongHermit There may be a better way than to depend on the institute of the nobel prize. There are instances of prizes being held off until someone dies, stories like this where a woman wasn't recognized because of being minority status, prizes going only to the head researchers even though the achievement was done by a team of hundreds of people, and so on and so forth. Lets not even speak of the nobel peace prize. A better way may be to have the nobel prize list annotated by important historical context. So we could have a list of nobel prize winners, where the nobel prize for pulsars has an entry of bell with the note of her achieving the oscars of science for it. This way, later humans will know that she belongs to the list, what award she recieved instead, and why. This context can be gathered by historians (and us), independently from the nobel prize committee,... as it should be. TL:DR: have historians hold a more nuanced and independent record.
"I was pleased that pulsars were considered important enough to rate a Nobel Prize." That there is a scientist, in her essence. Dr. Bell, I work in a totally different discipline and nevertheless you made it easier for me to get taken seriously as a female academic. Thank you.
Sad that she had to face harassment and her Nobel price was stolen. When this story is narrated by the victim, it is more divine. This story deserves to be made as movie.
No one stole her Nobel prize. The thing is there is only one Nobel in physics every year and it can only be given max three people. There are so many physicists who should have won the Nobel but somehow they didn't because it's a very competitive field. Still, they didn't choose to whine about it because they are working for something bigger.
Tony Hewish deserved some credit but he landed the lion's share of credit . I wander if the Nobel prize might be apportioned according to percentage of credit due . It then becomes politics. However it's politics that removed Fred Hoyle from contention for a Nobel prize concerning origins of life . Hoyle made waves at Cambridge concerning the treatment of Jocelyn Moving over to Oxford University , the saga continues concerning how much limelight credit that Alexander Fleming shoulda received for his ,, discovery ,, of penicillin. The real toil was done by Florey and Chaim but they weren't British and Britain claims the credit for penicillin. The mentality was different for the era.
Yeah this was well done. I hope women gain responsibility in gov't as well as science. I've been amazed that Germany actually has an ex-quantum chemist (Angela Merkel) as their Chancellor! I'm so jealous. :) She is apparently the unofficial leader of EU and in my mind the Free(ish) World.
I didn't know Jocelyn was still alive! I was aware she was the one who discovered pulsars, but didn't know the whole story. I'm so glad she's still around and featuring in this series ✨
@@tigress63 He gave her a job on a project he and Ryle conceived of. They built equipment, which did not previously exist, specifically to detect the wavelengths required for quasars. That's what led to the discovery of pulsars.
@@tigress63 He was from an era of deceitful cowards. That’s the era he was from. I would be ashamed to live under the skirts of a great mind, not because she was a woman, but because I had stolen from her.
@@tigress63 Antony Hewish is a coward and a cheat, but hey, everyone eventually learnt the truth about who the true Nobel prize winner was, Jocelyn Bell Burnell. As far as I’m concerned cowards and cheats are disgusting and Antony should be erased from the annals of astronomy.
I’m an ordinary person with a long-standing interest in Astronomy and as far as I am concerned ever since Carl Sagan’s fantastic presentations at the Christmas Royal Institute lectures, the discovery of Pulsars is and always will be, firmly attributed to Jocelyn Bell. Hewish may have been the project leader but the real protagonist was Jocelyn Bell, he was just ‘interference’.
@Martin - I think it’s also fair to say that when Tony Hewish had this discovery repeatedly brought to his attention he blandly dismissed Bell’s observations as ‘local interference’. Had a less committed scientist other than Jocelyn Bell Burnell made this discovery, its significance perhaps would not have been recognised for the amazing natural phenomenon it was. Undeterred she continued with her analysis and observations until she discovered a second Pulsar and only then did the ‘big wigs’ start to take notice and see it as their opportunity to make a name for themselves. More pulsars were discovered and the true significance of Jocelyn Bell’s discovery slowly dawned amongst the scientific community. The analogy of the cabin boy, I suggest is somewhat different in that he was a ‘passenger’ just like the crew and everyone else on board the vessel in uncharted seas, that was expertly commanded and navigated by James Cook. Whereas Jocelyn Bell was ‘the driver’ of this project, much to her credit and equally well deserving of Nobel recognition for her efforts.
@Martin That's actually a relevant criticism of the science Nobel Prizes, though. Modern scientific discoveries (and many historical ones, though that's a different topic) are made by teams of people. The idea of a lone genius toiling in a lab is a myth. BUT if we're going to award these prizes to individuals, we need to think about the biases that are baked into the structures that hire, promote, and fund people into leadership positions. And then the second set of biases of how that scientific work is perceived by people within and outside of the field. Formal recognition of Bell's work is important to right the past wrong. But the scholarship she established is important in preventing this from happening again.
@Martin Some would say they were already discovered by their inhabitants. Comparing Dame Susan Jocelyn Bell to a cabin boy is dismissive and belittling. She helped build the array. She was there reading and interpreting all the data. So, she helped build the boat and navigated it and kept the log. He dismissed what she was telling him more than once. Worst of all, he sat back while the press treated her like a piece of meat, making no interruptions or intervention on her behalf. Besides, a Nobel Prize back then was only about a million dollars. She ended up with the 3 million. I think she won more money and more respect in the end.
@Martin short lived, shallow 'benefits'. If folks knew the behind the scenes of the Nobel prizes, they wouldn't be so overly obsessed with them. It is not a prize given by your peers.
I'm from Sri Lanka and organised inter-school quizzes on astronomy are a big thing here i.e. many schools have their own astronomy clubs and many students strive to become aficionados including myself. I distinctly remember "Pulsars were discovered by Jocelyn Bell" is one of the most prominent facts I memorized when I was in 6th grade and so did many of my peers becuse it was a question that would come up in quizzes so frequently. It was significant beacuse, at that time, it was very rare for a female astronomer to make a major discovery like she pointed out in the video. So I'd say she's pretty famous in the community.
She sure is. I first heard about her from an American woman I met when she came to my country to work at the Parkes Dish, a very important radio telescope in the outback. She spoke about how she'd believed she could do it after hearing Jocelyn Bell's story. Role models matter so much. When you grow up not ever seeing anyone like you doing the thing you want to do, it's very hard to believe that you can do it. And it's hard for other people to accept you. I talked to my dad about my career in computing hardware, but he still kept encouraging me to be a librarian or work in a fashion boutique. Seriously. He thoght I should work in a dress shop. Once, he praised me for the way I'd taken a phone message for him and said: "You'd make a very good secretary, dear." I was in my 40s at the time and had post-graduate qualifications and had been running my own consulting business. I smiled calmly at him and said, "Than you, Dad. So would you. You have a fine phone manner and your handwriting is quite legible." He harrumphed. I managed not to laugh, then, but I still smile when I think about it. I loved my father, and he was an intelligent man, but by god did he have a blind spot about the capabilities of women! Like so many men.
She is a role model. What a woman! What fortitude. Thank God for her. Many daughters are now taking to STEM because of her. Perhaps her struggle and story is more important than the Nobel. Thanks for the documentary.
It is sad that she doesn't receive the recognition and rewards that women need. She is a great role model and women should know this. She is a true star in her own right.
This was maddening. Imagine finding something that advances science in such an explosive way and your boss taking complete credit for it. That is honestly INSANE.
I have the greatest admiration for Jocelyn Bell Burnell, not only for her discovery, but for the strength of character in rising above the betrayal by her tutor and finding fulfilment in her subsequent work. A fascinating film, thank you!
Can Tony Hewish even be thought of as her tutor? I don’t think so. If I rightly recall from the film, she described him as “the guy with the money…“ I don’t think he’s worthy!
@@liondoor4554 you are right; he described her as one of the students under his supervision, but she was working pretty independently from the sounds of it, and he only became interested when she had made that amazing breakthrough.
Unfortunately, what happened to Dr. Bell Burnell still happens all the time in science, where the person with power takes credit for the inspiration, work and skill of others. It happens within academia, but also industry. It happens to women, but also to men.
“Tradition.” That’s disgusting. As a (currently studying) female conductor, I’m facing the same thing over here in Europe that I never faced in the States. It’s terrifying sometimes. Edit: holy CRAP the media questions. The photographers. The lack of support from Tony. What absolutely horrible, horrible things.
i support equal participation of women in the male dominated jobs that they conveniently don't want to do like construction, fishing, plumbing, etc!!!!!! There is too much oppression of women there less than 1% participation is way too misogynistic
@@AC-mp7cx I wanted to be a car mechanic. I loved cars, and still do. I was refused an apprenticeship because I was a girl. There were many thousands like me. I ended up going into computer hardware troubleshooting, I'd mostly taught myself. I was good at it but so often overlooked and underestimated that it became depressing. It's really hard to work in a field where people just assume you don't know what you're talking about, even though you do. That's why there's so few women builders, plumbers, fishers etc. we're discouraged from going into those industries, and if we do get in, we so often find ourselves in workplaces that are dismissive, hostile, and/or uncomfortable with us. But there are still some. I know female electricians, female carpenters, female builders, female engineers. I often seek them out when I need that service because I know that you often have to be twice as good as the men to stay in the field. Do you understand?
@@thomasdequincey8227 how can you be sure your sexual organs were the reason you were refused? Are you sure it didn't have anything to do with being arrogant, or schedule conflicts or expected payment? 🤔 theres an awful lot of men who are refused apprenticeships and an awful lot of potential reasons for it. Kind of petty to assume you failed because of someone else.
@@antonioyeats2149 No, they told me. This was in the early 80s. They told me "thank you for applying but at this time we are not accepting female candidates for mechanic's apprenticeships" and went on with some guff about it being an unsuitable working environment for a young woman. The also sent me alist of "suitable" fields I could apply for an apprenticeship in: hairdressing was at the top of the list I remember. This was through the government apprenticeship board, so it wasn't a single workplace. In my country, to be accepted for an apprenticeship meant you had to go through the Board. I went into computing instead. I taught myself hobby electronics and started putting my own basic computers together. It wasn't easy being a woman in that world either, but I got lucky in a job with a company that was very prestigious where they were prepared to give a woman a chance. Even so, there was only one female software programmer and one woman working in Final Testing and then technical writing, and me working with the hardware in R&D in the studio. Every other woman in the company was in admin or a secretary.
Hey man, take joy! We're trying to right many wrongs these days, it's never happened before in human history. This is a great story and is helping right a wrong for one person.
@@roelzylstra and they never will, it is a common pattern in these old institutions. They have far too much "prestige" to admit to such horrible inequality in their previous decisions.
@@roelzylstra The Nobel Committee is a good thing but not a perfect thing. I agree they should give her a prize, but if they don't she'll get her deserved recognition anyway.
True. A life as a homemaker is below a woman worth her salt. She should be working, and hire various women not suited to other work, to bring up her children.
@@dixonpinfold2582 well if you're a parent, despite your gender, you still have an obligation to take of your children. Better yet, if you're more career orientated, just don't have kids. There's always a time in your life when you can get married and/or have kids, you can just wait till you're successful.
I longed to do carpentry but I was made to do home economics and sewing instead. Wish my parents had been aware enough to fight for me. Think I will do a carpentry course now I am retired 🤔
I remember learning about the discovery of pulsars in high school. And in the textbook there was a picture of Jocelyn Bell, stating that she had discovered them. She won't be forgotten
I cried when they showed the picture of her holding the award. Wow, so inspiring. I'm so thankful for women like this who paved the way in science for the rest of us🙏💪🏻
I remember Jocelyn Bell coming to speak at our Edinburgh astronomy club 35 years ago, and she couldn't have been more gracious. There was never any doubt in our minds that she was the key player in the discovery of pulsars. I was exceedingly proud to meet her and value the fact she took time out of her work to engage with the public and ignite the love of science in a new generation. Thank you Jocelyn.
What a wonderful story. She was robbed, but kept her head high. She inspires me to write up my own research (not astronomy). What a lovely film. Thank you, Ben.
Despite Dr. Bell Burnell having the strength of character and humility to value the discovery over being robbed of her acknowledgment, I am glad that history has been corrected that it was HER discovery. Moreover, history has been corrected while she is still living.
I actually think it was a conjoined effort. Having the idea and resources to build a telescope like that in the first placece was a big contributor after all. The tragedy is that she wasn't acknowledged at all, she should have been up there with the other two. And she should have been credited throughout the whole discovery process for the work she was doing.
@@tubester4567 I disagree. Academic protocol would require her to be recognized on any scholarly paper in which the discovery was made public; if not recognized as 1st author. According to the doc, her advisor cut her out of due recognition by first not inviting her to the meeting in which a theory for the chart data was discussed.
And this is the thing I often wonder. Would he have said or did he say at any point well I really can't take all of the credit, she contributed to xyz because I felt as though she just got pushed into the background.
She is so beautiful she made my cry... especially when she was vindicated as part the the discovery she is so humble and full of grace. We need more humans like her
I have a feeling this sort of thing happens more frequently than we realize, where the "mentor" gets credit for the discovery of the researcher whose career they're supposed to be fostering.
Professors/ research advisors are notorious for taking credit for their underlying’s genius. This is another case and one that illustrates how deep systemic biases have seeped into academia. It was great to learn about this brilliant woman, I hope more stories like hers will be told in the future, and that the contributions of young women to sciences will become more widely appreciated.
All too common unfortunately. The really sad thing is while this woman seems to have gotten hers in the end, but most young men never get a second thought.
I got an acknowledgement in the "thank you" section when my ex published the book we worked on together, admitting he couldn't be sure what parts were mine and what was his. But somehow this translated into a "thanks!" instead of coauthorship credit, because he was a professor and I was a grad student! I take quiet pleasure in the fact that it's the one out of all his publications that is taken most seriously, because it has more substance and better ideas than the books I *didn't* coauthor.
Interesting that Dr. Hewish defended receiving the credit - while Ms. Bell-Burnell's reaction was that "pulsars were important enough to rate a Nobel Prize". She was happy about her field of study being recognized. He was apparently more concerned with being recognized. I love her passion.
@@taylorawell Was Mrs. Bell-Burnell knighted? That would give the title of Dame. Also I don't believe she completed her doctoral studies which would give her the title of Dr. Either Ms. or Mrs. is appropriate for a married woman as Ms. is equivelent to Mr. acknowledging a title for a woman but not specifying whether they are married or not
So just to be clear, Tony Hewish insisted that what they observed were just interference, but because of Jocelyn Bell's conviction that it was something else, Pulsars were discovered? I know it was very rare at the time to give women any credit for anything, but unless Tony Hewish (at 97) set the record straight and insist on sharing the Nobel Prize with Jocelyn Bell, history will only remember him as somebody that took credit for somebody elses breakthrough.
They likely won't, though. I suspect many will remember Hewish as whatever they heard about him in their own readings and meanderings... unless they stumble upon this and learn otherwise. Like those outside of the science community, I didn't know about Ms. Bell or her contributions to science until 5 minutes ago, so as of 5 minutes ago, I didn't know Tony Hewish was a thief. There's a wonderful line from the song "Wonderful" from the musical "Wicked": "Is one a crusader or ruthless invader? It's all in which label is able to persist." Even though the truth matters, the label shouts over the quiet truth, which is the crux of the problem. Ideally, the label would match to reflect the truth. The pendulum always swings from side to side, so we'll get there at some point.
Sharing the prize would be the thing. But I don't think he'll alter his stance. How badly we need role models of men showing how to grow, change and improve without fear of losing! In fact there is so much to gain!
A story as sad as this is; she is still relatively lucky that she eventually got the recognition in mainstream history; I can't help but wonder how many more woman who has done amazing things that will forever cloaked in anonymity
The NASA computers, an amazing cadre of women were overlooked for their contributions and accomplishments until the film Hidden Figures told their story.
Millions, surely as many as men who ever won recognition or even more, because many men do this to us every time they can, even in small things. You say something that they consider clever and they tell you you are wrong, and five minutes later they "explain" to you what you said before.
Right here, im a boy of 15 and i aspire for astrophysics. I loved astronomy and astrophysics since childhood and i have read many books on astronomy, and there wasn't a single one where your name wasn't there, Mrs. Bell mam! You are really inspiring for me as I feel even I'm an outsider due to being an Indian, since the westerners consider us the so called "Third World countries". I want to upgrade the science and technology of the world in the field of astrophysics and solve some of the greatest mysteries of the universe like Dark matter, and possibly harness them as well. Thank you so much for being an inspiration!
@@juliee593 thank you so much I'm preparing hard right now as in grade 11 in India if you are a student with physics, chemistry and mathematics as your main subjects then you have to crack one of the toughest exams in the world: Joint Entrance Exams. If i do that then no one could stop me from achieving my goal! 🔥
Indians have done remarkable work in the progression of mathematics and science, and especially in astrophysics. The financial limitations on institutes like ISRO and the like have led to some incredible breakthroughs that would not have been achieved otherwise. I'm a few years ahead of you, halfway through my computer science degree at one of Canada's most prestigious research institutes. I wish you all the best for your JEE and Advance exams. It gets exhausting at times but reading your comment reminded me of the way I felt in school and how far I have come.
I couldn’t imagine the pain she felt at the time and though all the years since. The fact she isn’t bitter against the world is so admirable. What a strong, intelligent, selfless and innovative woman.
@@lampad4549 Not sure what you mean here and I'm even more perplexed by the quotation marks... If you're referring to the not-becoming-bitter part, it's worth saying that it's a perfectly legitimate feeling. Any person would be right to feel bitter and enraged by the injustice.
@@lampad4549 come on man you think woman dont ahve good quality's then do you think the same about men, Im a man and i would take it as well as she did
Had she not insisted that it was not interference as they had said and kept on looking for evidence to prove it , these 2 men would have had nothing and would have won nothing. Truly unjust.
Great comment. That is exactly why the Nobel for discovering pulsars should have gone to Bell. She took an aberrant signal to her supervisor, who eventually won that Nobel, and he said it was just interference. That was the end of it, for him. But she continued to look for supporting evidence that it was not simple interference, and found it. She took that evidence to Hewish, and suddenly both he and his boss were interested. Left to those two men, pulsars might have remained covered up in the reams of "interference" signals. Bell discovered pulsars by uncovering more of them, even though her boss Hewish said she had only found ordinary interference. The first tiny bity of evidence of their existence was denied by Hewish and his boss, yet Hewish gladly dressed up in tails and accepted the Nobel and the money prize that went with it, as if he had actually done the work of uncovering pulsars instead of Bell.
Just want to say that you're not just a role model for young women, but also for young guys like who want to go into astronomy like me. Thank you so much for your amazing story, that has inspired and continues to inspire so many of us young astronomers.
Reminds me of Albert Einstein’s first wife who helped Albert with his physics research but could not get into Austria’s physics program. She was smart enough to help a genius physicist but not good enough for the physics program and Albert did nothing to champion her cause. I also have to say that her supervisor’s explanation of being on a ship and the guy who sees the land should not get credit for the discovery, but in that case everyone knows what land looks like and that it exists. In this case no one knew if there were pulsars let alone how to detect one, she recognized what she saw even though the same man who took credit originally told her it was interference and to discard the data.
Well, this is down to the presentation in the video. He didn’t just say it’s interference, just forget about it. And to be fair, the most likely culprit was interference (even if it wasn’t in retrospect). When the signal was observed again and again in the same place they looked closer, and Hewish was on board with that. It was his project and he was steering the ship so to speak, she didn’t go rouge and find pulsars on her own like it seems in the video. That said, she was the one observing the data and the one to find the pulsars, so she should have been given more credit and part of the nobel imo, but this video is spinning a tale.
I love the cinematography behind 12:45, how when the "light" hits you, you see famous scientists, and when it doesnt, it shows a picture of jocelyn, or an "overshadowed light" its there, you just dont see it. Amazing.
Sadly this is very common in the acdemic community. Students will usually do all the field work and professors will put their names on projects they have had very little input in, but still can take credit for.
Even more the sign of the times she lived in. Woman were , for the most part , treated as if all they will be and needed to be was a wife and homemaker. We had to go to school but we were not treated as if we were anything more than future wife and mother. I began school in the mid 1960's and I saw the same treatment of "nothing more than a wife" treatment. I was told I was supposed to learn but treated as if it wasn't necessary for me. I hated school for that very reason and quit as soon as I could. It's sad, really sad because I wanted more.
Jocelyn spoke at our astronomical society when I was a student at St Andrew’s in the 1980s. I still have the slip of paper she handed out to everyone (somewhere!) on it it said (approximately) “in picking up this piece of paper you have used more energy than has been received from pulsars since their discovery”. Fantastic demonstration of communication. A role model for all, not just women, and not just scientists. And carrying on the amazing tradition of the Religious Society of Friends in making major contributions to science and industry.
Honestly, I cannot imagine the frustration one has to experience of getting catcalled and whistled at by a bunch of hooligans every morning for class. That's just embarrassing...
@@JupiterThunder what reason is there not to believe her account outside of a "personal incredulity" fallacy? Claiming people "just didn't do that" in the early 60s isn't a very compelling argument for any women who had to live through the 60s or any other decade. I have been in lecture rooms where this happens even now where universities are considerably more supportive of female faculty. Also she discovered pulsars and wasn't even angry about not receiving proper recognition, I don't take that as "an ego" but if you do I think she deserves to have an ego for a discovery that important.
@@JupiterThunder Were you alive at the time? Are you aware of human nature characteristics that allow this sort of thing as well as other "group crimes" like nazism to exist?
What a great soul this lady is. I'm glad her passion was stronger than all the obstacles she encountered, and that she did get some support from good people. And thanks to the filmmaker for making this movie!
Watch this in its entirety, and be prepared for a COMPLETE PARADIGM SHIFT on EVERYTHING YOU HAVE BELIEVED TO BE TRUE UP TO N-O-W! ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-7NjkNaDRPXw.html
@@richardblack9067 I watched it. Didn’t have a “paradigm shift”, but I almost had a seizure from LAUGHING SO HARD!! Flat Earthers are the *DUMBEST OF THE DUMB!* The Global Village Idiots! It’s astounding to witness people who revel in their own stupidity and wilful pig ignorance! But, I suppose it keeps you all off the streets! Lol! 🤪😂😆😜🤣😎
@@richardblack9067 And btw, Mark Sargent is almost as ludicrous a figure as Eric DUMBay! The difference between them is that Sargent is a deliberate con man and blatant fraud, whereas Dubay is too thick to be a con man, I think he actually believes the absurd piffle that he pushes.
Believe it or not Cub', right at the end of the video I started to scroll down the comments and read your post at the exact same time as she spoke the words. Spooky for sure !!
I'm not surprised at all by Jocelyn's parents' reaction. When I was a kid there was a small grocery store right around the corner from us in our Brooklyn, NY neighborhood. The owner was a Quaker. (Yes, there were -- and still are -- Quakers in Brooklyn.) He was the most decent and welcoming person there, something I greatly appreciated as a kid in a not always welcoming neighborhood. Yes, that's only one data point, but I treasure it and what it perhaps says of Quakers by and large.
A noble prize to the man that interpreted this as interference is a buffoon. The act of changing the frequency to read the signal became paramount to the discovery.
She "changed astronomy" by using someone else' tool the way it was intended to be used. Give her lots of credit but not all of it. Hewish was doing his on-the-spot peer reviewing, Bell made sure. By putting Hewish, who bucked the science establishment in the name of science, in the harshest light, the documentarian triggered you to call her significant ally "a buffoon."
@@fiftystate1388 Where was he being an ally when the press was treating her like a piece of meat? He flat out denied her contributions. Allies don't do that.
@@TheAccidentalViking I don't recall that "flat out denied" being in the story. Sounds like you know more than this account. "Piece of meat" does fit in with the abusive geekdom she encountered entering the lecture hall.
If I were lying on my death bed, as a Nobel Prize winner, but knowing that I had not given or shared appropriate credit, I think I would feel a fraud. For eternity.
It isn’t relevant today. Women are in a much better position in society than men in modern times. In fact, there needs to be some movement in the other direction now.
I visited The Royal Society in Carlton Terrace recently and Dame Jocelyn’s portrait hangs at the top of the grand staircase. She’s there along with Newton, Faraday, Dirac and a hundred other scientific and mathematical greats.
that's pandering. she isn't really equal to them. if she wasn't the intern monitoring the equipment then anyone sitting there would have seen it first.
@@frankyflowers It's one thing to see it and quite another to recognise that it's something worth investigating - Hewish discredited the signals as interference; something mentioned in the film.
I almost teared up hearing about the injustice she had to go through, don’t worry Jocelyn Bell I will never forget you!! And you are a good person at heart that beats any nobel prize winner any day of the week.
I would claim a pretty well known story. I am totally unaware of astro physists... except Neil degrasse, Hubble.. you know. I knew it was a woman and if I know... EVERYBODY KNOWS (I think) That "bosses" gets/takes the credit for employe/ "underlings" works is nothing new AND IT IS STILL SO. All research you have a "boss" and LOADS of "underpaid" people working on the problem, the person credited NEVER DID IT ALONE. Only Ayn Rand "believes" people do things alone (or CAN DO) Everything is built of knowledge gathered by others and NOT A LOT CAN BE DONE by a single human without tools made by others... with other skills in their fields. The reason this is a "thing" and what I would object to is this is a SPECIFIC example and it is used as a "men supress women issue" I would say... that guy would have taken the credit for the research NO MATTER OF THE GENDER of the person who figured this out. It is NOT a gender issue it is a "power issue" and it exists today. In regards to the Nobel Prize... that is a bit on the side here BUT generally if you work for somebody and figure something out *THEY OWN IT AND HAVE THE IP* So SONY did this or TESLA did that... Companies do not do ANYTHING, people do... and the company, university etc normally either take the crdit themself OR the head of the project gets/take the credit. My point... not really a gender issue YES there are gender issues but this one is NOT SPECIFICALLY gender orientated. Basing pensions on working years... that is a gender issue since mothers often works less during their life because they birth children. And really without new people... who will by my old car... and fund my retirement...
Probably a substantial number of times, enough to make me uncomfortable, to be honest. But women haven't necessarily invented an overwhelming quantity or to warrant this statement. Historically, it's mostly men who actually venture out to do and create, and a very small percentage of women who have actually invented things or discovered things, and they were more or less considered 'deviants', or tagged as 'irresponsible women'. I consider them outliers. Same can be said for women taking up the slogan that behind every successful man, there is a woman. Relax, it can go both ways. Plus its not always men that are the reason why some women don't get the recognition they deserve. Sometimes it's because of other women. Relax.
@@theoriginalkobby4157 You wrote: "Historically, it's mostly men who actually venture out to do and create, and a very small percentage of women who have actually invented things or discovered things, and they were more or less considered 'deviants', or tagged as 'irresponsible women'. I consider them outliers." I wonder do you ever even ask yourself WHY that is, and WHAT you have done to contribute to that?
I knew of Jocelyn 30 years ago when I did Physics and before that. She also did work at the Open University, if I am not mistaken. As a man, I thought she was fascinating & a very brave physicist. I want the same for my Daughter, who is now in Oxford studying Classics. Thank you Mrs Bell.
@@Goldenretriever-k8mbecause its disingenuous virtue signalling. Why be outraged at this when we know he'll forget about it 2 days and pretend to be outraged at something else he just found out about
Mad respect to Jocelyn! And her great parents, and her idol, Fred Hoyle as well. As a father to a “little girl”, I will fully support my daughter, if she desires to pursue science, maths, engineering, literature….
This is heart wrenching!!!! She deserves it more than anyone else. It's her determination, persistence and trust in her own judgment that played a pivotal role in the discovery.
You were denied of Noble prize in 1974, press had no shame, two ignoble men shared the Noble prize, but after 44 years in 2018 you had THREE MILLION DOLLAS Breakthrough Prize all to yourself and yet you chose to give it all away! You are more than inspiring, much more than noble!! 🙏🙏🙏
@@Foolish188 since 90% of communciation is conducted via a text format in the modern age, proper grammar and spelling is extremely important. If you dont understand that, enjoy being unemployed for the next 50 years.
Strange coincidence that Hoyle too was denied a Nobel for brilliant theoretical work while two others received it for carrying out observations that showed he was right. His 1955 "Frontiers of Astronomy" was one of my early influences too. Yet a GB poll to nominate the greatest Yorkshireman completely ignored him.
@@piotrd.4850 He did. Back in the mid-50s his continuous creation theory seemed just as feasible as the Big Bang. Nobody could answer the question of what happened before the Bang, either - don't think they can now, either - so I suppose that, being a stubborn Yorkshireman, he didn't feel like climbing down. He was still a great scientist.
@@OrdenJust I suppose they put a certain amount of theory into it, but Hoyle did the calculations for each transmutation - in 1949, I think, though I could be wrong.
Tony would have never even "discovered" pulsars without Bell (not saying he discovered them). Yes, he was the one to make the telescope, but until Bell told him that the markings weren't interference, he just brushed them aside. A remarkable woman indeed, and my new role model.
We need more women like her setting examples fow young people today. Sadly, social media has provided a platform for women to be "influencers" by strutting around nearly naked on instagram and tiktok. Where are the intelligent, grounded women like Ms. Bell?
"There's a difference between skipper and crew". As a PhD student (with a good supervisor I should say) this comment by Hewish is absolutely infuriating. She most certainly should have shared the prize with him.
@@markjaycox8811 Since I'm not on Facebook your comment makes no sense to me....sorry. And every PhD.....does that include myself? In your opinion? cheers from Germany
@@norbertschmitz3358 YES IT DOES. Please explain to me Genius, right now, the moment you gained consciousness, describing the journey from the non conscious state- I'm listening.
@@norbertschmitz3358 My comments do not make sense to you because you have not gained one sense since birth. Your thought speed today is the same as it was the moment you opened your eyes.
I have two daughters; one with a MS in Paleontology and the other with a PhD in Criminal Justice. It was women like Jocelyn Bell that helped make that possible.
@@johnbuggy9121 Jocelyn is fantastic and little did I know when I did my project on her that I would be a woman exploited some months later but by Aviva for life insurance. Yet the CEO Amanda Blanc is being made a dame yet I have been denied £500,000 it seems there is discrimination everywhere. I was denied the contract because I was identified as vulnerable in internal data. The Lunacy laws have returned in practice because I was upset about my husband's death yet I am a masters degree student with learning difficulties. There is so much exploitation by organisations
She epitomizes Luciano's words "Imagine what a world it would be if everybody gives as much as they would like to get". She is a model not only in science but humanity.
The whole POINT of this video is that; as a girl, she was nearly blocked from giving her best. Translate that to minorities and the poor, all blocked thanks to, for instance; the New York Times not actually being liberal, just accepting that label from others so that they can drag the rest of us to be just a bit more conservative and in fact (despite this video); supportive of the pecking order.
“There is a difference between skipper and crew”. A good skipper acknowledges that without crew he is doomed. They form a unity and should be regarded as such. A good skipper isn’t tone deaf and listens to what his crew has to say. Especially when they point him to something extremely important. This guy isn’t a good skipper and would hit the very first iceberg he encounters.
Agreed!! Clearly he's not a good skipper. Also clearly he didn't even want to listen to what she discovered. All interference? He's a goober. A lying thieving goober at that. Nothing more infuriating than when a man (or anyone) takes other people's work and claims it as his own. Nice going. A real man of character he is. I hope he sleeps well with that prize he got. Maybe he should do the noble thing and hand it over to the rightful owner with a heartfelt apology.
He knew that he stole the Nobel from her. He even perpetuated the lie. He should've been proud of her discovery and to have worked with her. This type of theft happen, all too frequently, to honest and good people. He shall forever be regarded as a fraud by me. We've earned that comet.
As long as you believe that about yourself, your mind will produce thoughts, telling you that you aren't intelligent. I want you to understand that you are existence, you are life. Life is intelligence in so many dimensions, that even if your mind isn't that of Albert Einstein, your contributions to this world matter, even if society tells you otherwise.
I won hundred percent I agree. I couldn’t have been that courageous pushing on with all those men in the classroomC at me. She is just so wonderful, I wouldn’t be able to withstand all that ridicule and then to have her wonderful achievement snatched from her smnply because she was living in the wrong era as a woman.
@@Lifethix Because as girls and women we’re constantly taught that being a wife and mother is all we’re put on this earth for, and we’re not good enough for anything else. Also, we’re here to support “our men”, not ever diminish him in any way, including showing pride in our accomplishments, and to not expect anything else for ourselves. At least this was the common thought process in the past (I was taught this in my own life, so it’s not like it’s ancient history), and it is just now really beginning to change.
What an inspiring person. It is a shame she did not get recognized for her discovery but history will look upon her as the real discoverer of radio pulsars and history will forget about those who stole the recognition from her.
My astronomy professor taught us about Bell and the whole controversy in 1980, but possibly that was unusual for the time. It was hugely important for me to hear, and it still is. Fred Hoyle's character certainly shines in this story. Kudos to Ben Proudfoot for this wonderful film.
They still are. You see that guy who wrote most of the code for getting a pic of the black hole, then the liberal nasa leader takes him off and has a girl complete the very last section so she can get the credit and glory?
Fred Hoyle is the one who coined the term Big Bang and rejected the Big Bang Theory. Edit: To all the internet warriors, I am just stating who Fred Hoyle is because OP mentioned they never heard of him.
@@dcube999 The Big Bang theory was also rejected by Albert Einstein (as was quantum theory). It doesn't mean he wasn't a brilliant scientist. And by the evidence of this film Hoyle clearly got things right about pulsars pretty quickly. Interestingly, the Big Bang theory was rejected by many partly on the basis that it was seen as being a convenient way for one of its most ardent supporters, Georges Lemaître, to accommodate his religious beliefs into astrophysics - he was a Catholic priest.
Studying science and engineering is hard enough in this age, she studied it in an age when there were no computers, let alone internet where you can access an entire library. On top of that she had the strength to conquer the emotional trauma of men taunting her. If this is not greatness, I don't know what is! If not for Physics, she deserves a Nobel prize, maybe the Nobel prize for peace!
It’s sad when people who’ve been ignored in spite of their contribution say they aren’t disappointed. It reflects how we as a society lower the expectations of people who do not fit in.
the did this in INDIA plundered the world Richest country, india , Stole all intellectual properties, from INDIA, we Indians Performed Surgery on Human being successfully before Lord Jesus Christ was Born, those technique are written in # Shoosrotha Sanhita# by LORD SHOOSHROOTA, WE DID CALCULUS 300YEARS BEFORE newton was born at BIJAPUR, STATE OF KARNATAKA
@@Foxtrottangoabc the effects of empire and colonialism are well documented. I can't speak to the specific claims made by the other commenter, but it's not at all a stretch to say India was plundered and its people exploited for material gain by the British, through the East India Tea Co. and other means.
Make no mistake. This still happens. Academic advancement is a ruthless business, and if you aren't in the club, be prepared to have your ideas "acquired" by others more powerful than yourself.
but this isn't about gender. this happens to men and women. Not sure why her case is any different than all the men who have been robbed of academic prizes
Wonderful. I am not an academic, and have had very little to do with academia, but I am aware that it is a horribly competitive field, and I mean horrible in the pejoriative sense. There are some remarkably large egos out there, making a lot of collective noise - their own little quasars you might say. Lovely to hear of someone who despite being used so terribly, has such generosity of spirit. Many thanks for posting it. I think I will pass it on to some who are involved in stem.
My own daughter is now a radio astronomer working with the Pathfinder Meerkat radio telescope thanks in part to the pioneering spirit of Jocelyn. Thanks to her and her intellect, females are in the main now seen as equal at least in this field of science.
That’s wonderful to hear, but that isn’t the case in genetics. Most, but not all, of the men I’ve worked with feel entitled to take credit for my work.
@@HotaraTakeo nothing has changed? Have you even looked at the reports of them? Or even done at research into why they are important? Obviously not, pulsars are almost perfect clocks, some can glitch and anti glitch. Thier properties are beyond my level of comprehension, but they are VERY important and are part of my research. We have the internet, use it for data, rather than cat videos.
Makes you wonder how many historic pieces of culture were created not by the famous name attributed to them, but by their students and apprentices. And also how much work was done by people who weren't permitted to attend higher education but, self-taught in their passions, made important (and mis-attributed) advances anyway.
@@amouramarie Very few, being in the room when great discoveries are made does not imbue credit. Scientists are least able to steal credit for one reason only - data.
@@somguy728 long time ago I encountered a situation, when another researcher began quietly parsing my computer for a research data, and even produced a paper! Fortunately, his paper was declined. What a scaundrel! Sure enough, now he is the head of the lab.
They were in pulsars? I'm not sure how any of that correlates to a team lead receiving the prize his team earned. Especially considering all those things have had many female examples since even Rome. Unless you grew up _before_ that... >_>
I had a wonderful older set of encyclopedias once, full of men and women, many, many minorities. Who were artists, dancers, scientists, you name it…you can’t find those anymore, all the newer ones have been purged of some of the best of humanity, and only have white persons, mostly men, unless the women are dancers or singers. It demeans ALL of us. ALL OF US, the ENTIRETY of the human species.
