I am 81 years old and rarely drive more than three times a week, and even then...less than 25 miles. I have owned Lexus hybrids since 2013--sedan, RX, and HX. I bought the RZ 450e, because it drives like a limo/sports car in the driving arena I inhabit. I know that it would not have been suitable back in the day when commuting or driving long distances was the norm. But...I LOVE this vehicle, warts and limits notwithstanding! The comfort and luxury of the driving experience suits me--for you guys who like sports and distance, enjoy your choice...but I would not consider your choice...ever!
Remember when Lexus made those ads mocking EV drivers for waiting forever at fast chargers while the folks who drove hybrids were living fancy free? Seems like Lexus got annoyed that no other auto makers were making EVs that crappy, and had to take things into their own hands.
It was the board of directors that literally ousted the CEO who said no we’re not pivoting to EVs it’s too soon and new management rushed this stuff out now here we are
Kyle, this was on my short list because I am one of the millions of people who don’t need lots of range. IMHO I think the service and depreciation element of Lexus is a huge draw over Tesla. So, there really is more to buying EVs than range. Just like, why would anyone buy a Hummer, or Cayenne? The fuel economy sucks. But distance potential isn’t the be-all and end-all for everyone.
That's basically "on average" for the current generation of battery electric vehicles. Oh, yes, some do better on range than their EPA estimates, while others can't begin to meet them. But they're all within a range that's around half of what most ICE or hybrid equivalents can do, for half the price. Meanwhile, folks like Kyle and the commenters here completely, entirely ignore around half of the humans inhabiting this country, who do not live in housing that would allow them to charge at home. These are expensive toys for wealthy people, and nothing even remotely resembling an "electric revolution."
@@tom_hoots Hope your day gets better because it's clearly been a rough one so far :) Electricity is everywhere as a utility. If HOAs and apartment complexes don't having chargers then we need legislation to change that (or vote with your wallet and don't rent/buy there). For street parking we can easily install L2 chargers but see above, we'd absolutely need to change legislation and mindsets. And after all of that if you can't charge at home or work (which is a huge boon for EVs IMO) you can fast charge once a week just like an ICE. I've owned an EV for six years and the US is definitely lacking. After an EV road trip through Norway we can definitely improve things. But we are getting there and I can never go back to owning an ICE for all of the maintenance, price gouging at dealerships, going to gas stations, etc.
@@JakeShirleyThe thing did 172 miles, and that was on a full charge......in 80 degree weather. God forbid you only charge to 80%......i. the winter. This thing is basically a LEAF, that cost 60 grand+. Im surprised they didn't build the thing with chademo.
@@tom_hoots Thats your opinion... Electric cars aren't toys, they are real cars for real people. If you can't charge at home because you live in an apartment complex that doesn't have chargers, you blame the car manufacturers? Public charging centers are popping up everywhere and many communities and neighborhoods have public chargers everywhere. There are chargers at Whole Foods, Amazon Fresh, the public library, Circle K, 7 Eleven, Target, McDonalds, Burger King, City Hall, next to parking meters, literally everywhere. Also, a lot of apartment complexes have 240v wall outlets in the parking garage (one can charge their electric car there)... Seems like you are looking for excuses to hate and not support electric cars.. Expensive? There are electric cars costing $19k after tax incentives. If one can't afford $19k, one shouldn't even be buying any car.. Anyway, people lease more and more because they want the lastest technology and tech changes rapidly..
"It's at least livable" is not a description that should be applied to an almost $70k vehicle. If you're talking about a $28,000 Bolt, that's a different story.
This car is 68k-as of yesterday, the Model Y Long Range (330 miles of range instead of 196) is 48k… not to mention the new LFP model. Over 20k less for a Model Y-this car is a joke! Great review as always!
@@samuell.siskind I prefer real world testing, especially when one maker has a reputation for falling short of their EPA values. A reason I watch so much content from @OutOfSpecStudios
@@ChuckvdLThe range given is accurate for a baseline energy usage per km. In my model S, it's 200 Wh/km. As long as I stay at or below that, I get the indicated range. The energy you use while driving is affected by a lot of things - wind (headwind vs tailwind), road surface quality (rough vs smooth), how big your wheels are and how heavy they are, how much you accelerate during your trip (acceleration takes a lot of power). All of these are true for ICE as well, but you don't get the precise numbers with ICE vehicles that you do with EVs. You get a crude gas gauge that goes from "FULL" through 3/4, 1/2, 1/4 then empty, so you are unaware of your own inefficient driving habits. Also with an ICE vehicle, you have a tremendously larger energy reserve in the form of gasoline than we do with batteries. One gallon of gas is worth about 35 kWh. Which means my Model S has the equivalent energy reserve of a 2.5 gallon tank of gas. The only reason such a small amount of energy works is because the motors are so incredibly efficient. Once we get 2x-3x battery energy density improvements (they're already in the labs), range will no longer be an issue. EVs will regularly have 1000 or more kms range.
I'm sorry, but have you never thought of that you are making fools of everybody that don't want a car with a bigger battery than they need in their regulear weekly driving, both because of the weight and to be a bit more invironmentally friendly until solid state batteries might solve that matter. And in most countries there this ev's are sold they don't have the long road trips you use in the US. I'm also pleased with better road comfort with 18" wheels because of a neckinjury, and I couldn't be a passenger by my daughter while she had the model Y. The driving comfort of the Lexus also with 20" wheels is of course on a much higher level than model Y. As younger people you may not notice the shaking and are more sport oriented like I was back in the time. I also like better the driving range and less tire cost with 18" wheels. I'm grown up with such wheels, but of course I understand that some people love the look of the 20" wheels, but I don't love the disadvanteges. I don't know if you haven't got the upgraded Lexus/Toyota models in the US yet, and hope It's not like that you have the manners where you criticize things you have not studied. Because the upgraded models we have got in Norway have faster fastcharging, and we have 11 Kw home chargers, if we will use it. We have to remember that Toyota/Lexus have some battery experience that other automakers don't have, and I have to admit that I in the start was a bit disapointed then I studied their to be extra sure policy for the battery life, but they know a lot about batterylife. Now they have also upgraded the showed consumption to be more real both by driving and in use of the aircondition. I'm pleased of the upgraded less than 30 minutes from 10 to 80 % fastcharging. And after studying a lot of tests I think we should get a regulation there used ev's have to document how much the batterycapacity is degraded of fastcharging, because we now have got so many tests that shows the degrade of batteries with much high fastcharging. And well a known Norwegian ev tester also showed the degrade % on his Tesla after just a few months. A front wheel drive Lexus RZ is coming to Norway i april/mai 2024. Thanks for your review.
I really don't understand how a company that lead the way in electrification is having such trouble with full-EVs. I'll take their hybrids and plug-in hybrids all day long, but no way would I touch this first generation of Toyota/Lexus EVs.
finally someone with common sense: the thing for me is that toyota did a statement public that they will dump tons of billions into hybrid technology and literally dump ev R&D , i think they did that statement about 2 or 3 years ago , fast forward to todays day and now they are trying to come up with a competitive ev model , when the model y is dominating every segment of a electric suv, is funny how now they are trying to catch a spot into the ev market when they were the one's not wanting to join the great way of electrification
I can no longer attribute Toyota’s incompetence inelectric cars to antipathy. This Hass to be intentional at some level. They decided they weren’t going to make an electric car that was competitive probably in support of their bill considered hydrogen car or because somebody in upper management didn’t like it. it would be impossible a car this bad by accident.
Absolutely intentional. Compliance car only. People seem to overlook that they just very recently spent billions converting everything to hybrid. They need to make some of that money back. And it's Toyota. Toyota customers demand nothing but the brand name as you can easily tell from their very outdated interiors across the lines.
@@spazzman90 Oh please... There is nothing wrong with this car. Kyle as a reviewer is very nit picky. Not all electric cars will suit everyone's needs and it doesn't mean the car is inferior. Your expectations for Toyota and Lexus might be unrealistic to think that they would be the great innovators in electric cars? Well, that ship already sailed by in 2012 with the introduction on the Model S and in 2013 with the i3. Its now a fact that any manufacture introducing electric cars now will only be maintaining and not really introducing any new technologies to take the industry to a new level.. Besides battery improvements, even more faster charging speeds, what else is there to improve without the cost of the cars becoming higher?? Self driving is already standard on many new cars.. Efficiency will automatically come with each new car.. So what else is there??? Do you want the car to fly? Sounds like every one who is complaining want a luxury super sporty electric Lexus capable of a 300 mile range, 250kw charging speeds, 600hp, all wheel drive, 2 motors, 0 to 60 under 3.3 seconds and for the car to wipe their asses after they take a dump.. Sure you can get all that but its gonna cost $150k.. Are you willing to spend $150k?
@@mamadouaziza2536 You can get all that (minus the wiping your a$$) in a Model 3 performance for 50K now. No reason to spend $150k anymore. Spazz is right that Toyota has put their money into hybrids, which is fine. People want those too.
@@mamadouaziza2536 Also, when we bought our Honda in 2013, it was partly b/c Toyota said they would NEVER adopt CarPlay/android auto, which does not sound very tech forward. Eh.
@@mamadouaziza2536if you want more luxury then look at a GV-60. Same price range as this Lexus, 230 mile range in the same range test, just under 500 HP, 2 motor all wheel drive, 3.6s 0-60, 240KW 18m 10%-80% DC charging, massaging seat, HUD, CarPlay&android-auto, Vehicle2Load, and more. Not exactly what you asked for, but very close for under $70K.. if you want luxury BEV for under $70k why would you pick the Lexus over the Genesis? ( or a number of other very good BEV’s under $70K)
This car would be fine for a daily commuter or short road trip with 1 or 2 charges along the way (provided they update their route planner). 32 amps is fine for AC overnight charging. Even in winter, I don't charge at more than 24 amps for my normal 120 mile commutes. But this car's MSRP should be 25k lower. As Kyle pointed out, the current pricing is a non-starter. IMO, it doesn't have that traditional Lexus premium feel that warrants a higher sticker over the toyota variant.
It’s such a tragedy. That said, I read somewhere that Lexus sees this as a second vehicle for a current Lexus owner that they strictly use this for their daily commute and grocery store run, then take your LX or LS for your road trips. Why you’d do that I have no idea. The LX and LS are far too wonderful to be wasting time on this. Why not just get a RX450+ then.
It's absolutely a PR answer. They did the car, knew full well it wouldn't look good on paper, and spun it every way they could like it was intentional. Like you said, why not buy a plug in Lexus?
Don’t condescend to Alyssa. Either leave her out of your questioning, or be nice to her. She is not an EV nerd like your are. She is your free film crew. Be respectful to her.
I'd hardly consider this guy an EV geek. He uses terms that don't exist. What is an "active, passive, non powered dampening"? No thing exists. I've rebuilt my fair share of suspension systems on high end mountain bikes. That technology trickles down from motorcross. Pretty technical high-end stuff. A single shock can easily set you back several hundred, to over a thousand dollars. I've rambled enough.
If you're talking about the screen with the wheel power and her thinking it was supension height, I don't think he intended to sound that way. He knows other automakers show their suspension height with a similar graphic and she's used to having cars with it.
@user-eh8ic9wl8g there is such a thing as active vs. passive dampening. Passive meaning normal shocks, active meaning electronically controlled and constantly measuring the road surface to adjust in real time. I think you're not understanding the terms because no one says what you put in quotes, unless they corrected themselves mid-sentence.
So when I checked out the bz4x I wasn’t impressed, it seemed so cheaply made not a usual Toyota. I just don’t get it. I’m on my second Prius in 10 yrs. Great cars.
@@why6212 No wheels fell off of any Toyota BEV. Early in the production there was a recall due to wheels being loose with the *potential* to fall off. But no wheels feel off any customers' cars. A recall was issued and in a few months, a fix was in. It's an absolute non-issue now.
We got one, 48Kist for 64K MSRP, 16Kist discount - already started on these vehicles. Great around town. Review on point, we're old Lexus folks, so it works for us.
I've owned many Toyotas, always loved their ICE and Hybrid reliability well into 300k miles but I would not touch a Toyota or Lexus BEV. It looks nice and appears to have decent interior luxury comforts but it's a good 8 years behind current BEVs on charging and driving performance. Even my 2019 model 3 SR with a teeny tiny 46kwh usable has more range and can charge at 175kw peak. Road tripping this would be so bad it's essentially a City only car to compliment a second ICE or you'll never want to travel. It's clear they didn't try very hard but hopefully they will learn and correct themselves. It's basically a fancy Bolt (which may win in the 10% challenge) with far less efficiency and less range..:) Come on Toyota..I have confidence they can still do it right but oh boy.
8 years behind? C'mon now. I would say 3 years behind. However, not all electric cars are created to be equal and there will always be electric cars that have more range and faster charging speeds than the next regardless of price.. At some point one will have to decide what is more important to them and what fits their lifestyle and budget.. You want a comfy ride and luxury and are willing to sacrifice range and charging speed? Or do you want long range, faster charging speeds and don't care about luxury and comfort? Some electric cars you can feel every bump in the road and the drive is harsh but yet you get great performance and medium range and so-so charging speeds.. There will never be a perfect electric car because there will always be complaints from someone about something they feel can be improved.
@@davidmenasco5743 Can you think of better cells that won't raise the price of the car? Also, how many other car brands continue to use these LG cells that were state of the art in 2018???
@@davidmenasco5743 Didn't BMW use LG as well? There are still i3' from 2014 with the original battery still getting nearly the same amount of range out of the car in 2023 that it got in 2014. Hell, I got an old LG G4 mobile phone with the original battery and its holding 93% of its original capacity.
@@davidmenasco5743 There will always be new and newer technologies.. If you purchase a 2024 electric car now, its already old tech because these cars started engineering years ago before actual production for the public. Those Nissan Leafs that were introduced in 2011 were conceived in 2003, so they were 8 years old in 2011.
It' no secret, Toyota isn't into BEV and maybe they don't need to be. They keep making silly solid state claims, for obvious reasons. Let's see how it pans out.
You got a thumbs up as soon as you showed the missing route planning capability. You guys do an awesome job with your reviews. Been following for about a year. Thank you!
As much as the range sucks, the lack of route planning is what makes it clear Toyota has no idea what they are doing in the EV space. Getting real tired of the "We have solid state batteries with 700 miles of range that can charge in 10 minutes" stories coming out of Toyota when their in car GPS can't even get you to a charger. Was originally holding out for Toyota to do an EV because I assumed them waiting so long meant by the time they did it would be done right at a good price, but here I am looking at getting a model 3 when I said id never even consider Tesla. Not sure how they managed to be king of making the best hybrid and PHEV vehicles for so many years but are dropping the ball so hard for full BEV's.
They must be marking this thing down like crazy in any state where Genesis also sells the GV60 and 70 evs. There's no good reason to get this over either of those.
Toyota has been trying to catch up with everyone else for years now after spending WAY too much time (and billions of dollars) on hydrogen fuel cell technology (that amounted to nothing). This kind of result, with less than 200 miles of range, is not going to win them any awards.
I thought it was rather enlightening when I went to the Toyota museum in Japan and they had the Mirai as the most recent evolution rather than the BZ4X (and its sisters). I really hope the new CEO can spruce up their EV lineup because I still think they make great cars.
@@bitcoinman9202 I waited forever for the Tundra hybrid after my 4runner died and was so sad that the battery was smaller than the prius prime. The mileage still sucks when traveling on the interstate. Wife convinced me to test drive an R1T and that was the end to my search. I tow around 7k lbs 1400 miles 2-3 times a year and wanted something fuel efficient for the times I was not towing. We already have a 2017 prius and the new prius is smaller and less fuel efficient than the previous model. We had a 2005 sienna that I loved, so we looked at that for my wife and the materials are now mostly cardboard with some carpeting. We are officially done with Toyota until they get back to where they were in the mid 2000's.
It's clearly a rushed stop gap. I'm still looking forward to what Toyota does with EVs when they put more of a focus on them which seems to be getting closer every day.
just traded my Tesla X for this, Down side is the mile range but a good thing is the $15,000 rebate that Lexus is offering right now, quality of this Lexus is by far better than Tesla, Im actually very disappointed about Tesla cars now!!!!
I stopped watching at 9mins after I heard didn't even make it 200 miles. What a joke. Toyota has a lot of catchup to do... I'll wait for their super batteries they keep saying they have.....
The car is an embarrassment to the manufacturer. Tesla did all the hard engineering work so it's all available. No one pedal driving? Wow! What a piece of crap. Hopefully the wheels don't fall off. Lol.
I have a Fiat 500e and I have never whined about it not telling me where chargers are, my mercedes diesel doesn't tell me where the gas stations are ,,,,, superchargers are for Teslas and you whining about other electrics not having plugs for superchargers is _diotic.
'Luxury' and conventional design together is a recipe for poor efficiency that no manufacturer has been able to solve. Tesla comes the closest, followed by Hyundai
Big miss on the random current limits. I really enjoy how tesla lets you pick to the single amp. When charging on vacations I will often hop between NEMA 5-15 and 5-20 outlets which are 12A and 16A charging. Why even limit to 8A at all?
It’s not uncommon to see multiple 15a receptacles on a 20a circuit. Max sustained load for a circuit is 80% of max, or 16a in that case. The use case for 8a is 2 cars drawing 8a each off separate 15a receptacles backed by a 20a breaker.
@@JakeShirley nearly all level1 capable travel ‘chargers’ support a 12Amp mode because that’s 80% of 15A, which is the rating on a standard 110v outlet, and for constant loads you should limit to 80% of rated capacity.
This would be a great around town car for maybe $40k, but lacks too many basics for more, sadly. I hope their prices come down once production ramps up.
Bz4x 2nd bestselling car in Norway, bev market nr 1 of Europe, good range, excellent warranty. This Rz maybe short on range, but who drives more than 200mls a day???? 15 years warranty on batteries and 1mln km......unprecedented. to much focus on range. You can charge at work, home etc. We have a Ford Mustang EV. Drove this Rz recently, wow, what a difference......compared with our Ford. Faster, far, far better build, ultra silent, more comfortable. Would choose this Rz above the Ford anytime....
I can see the articles popping up already: "I drove Toyotas EV for the first time and I hated it", "I test drove Toyotas brand new EV and it sucked" and "I went on an EV roadtrip and got stranded because I couldn't find any chargers" ... oh well ... Toyota at it's best!
Lexus RZ 450e stands out with its striking design, comfort, quality, drivability etc and has enough battery for 99,9% of customers. Lexus knows what they are doing and will always have high secondhand value.
Lexus has gotten very lazy. They started off great but now they think they can just put out anything and people will buy it. Kind of like what Cadillac did in the 70s and 80s and look where that got them. I had a 22 RX 350 that had the most awful 1400 to 1800 rpm exhaust drone and cabin vibrations I’ve ever had in a car. First time I had it in the shop Lexus replaced the catalytic converter assembly, which resulted in no improvement. Then they replaced a motor mount and still no improvement, and then they just tell you that’s how it is. Every time I drove the car it pissed me off. I drove a couple other ones and they had a similar problem. It’s unbelievable that their engineers have gotten so lazy that they are putting out garbage like this! I traded it off at 7500 miles on an ioniq 5, and never looked back. The Hyundai product is not perfect, but at least it is smooth and quiet and fun!
There's a whole long history about how Honda and Toyota basically pushed the Japanese government to invest in hydrogen cars rather than EVs. It explains a lot about why they are so far behind in EVs and why what they are currently selling for EVs all suck so much. I do think Toyota will eventually build on what Tesla has been doing and get it together. But that will be many years from now.
Toyota’s current e-TNGA platform does support EVs, it is also used by combustion and hybrid models, all of which are built together on the same line, so e-TNGA isn't actually a bespoke EV platform with important packaging constraints that prevents it from optimizing the EV drivetrain and battery. That why Toyota within the next five years wants to make way for a new, bespoke EV platform
It's actually a hatchback. I believe the costs for producing a hatchback are much greater than for a trunk, and that's why Tesla doesn't make the Model 3 a hatchback.
On the Model 3, using a trunklid is to create more rear headroom and improve structural rigidity, reduce weight. Cost to produce a hatch is not 'much' greater.
I have a 2003 SC430 since new with 75000 miles and as far as the wonky TPMS glitches maintenance and tires it has not any mechanical issues. The paint is so good but the leather is buttery and incredibly comfortable.
Good video i agree with your summation. The issue with this car in my view is charge speed and range. Im waiting to see how they address that. The interior is gorgeous. The rest is top notch just the efficiency with range and charge speed is a huge area of opportunity. Lexus can do alot, especially seeing the new GX OT i think this has to be an entry just to get to market and will be followed up by a proper battery pack is my theory. The RZ if they can fix that battery pack can be a contender they need to get that charge speed cut in half on L2 speeds and range that pack to 250+ range.
Car and Driver called the Toyota version of this vehicle a "compliance car". The interior of the RZ was singled out as an "upgrade to 1st class" vis-a-vis the the bZ4X. The range is totally out of whack with the current market though. It's almost as if Toyota has had this design sitting in a drawer somewhere for a couple of years. It's pretty fast, Motorweek got 4.5s 0-60 mph. That will sell a few of 'em. I was kind of shocked that it was that fast, tbh. That's right up there with i7 xdrive60 and others.
Many people criticizing these cars are comparing to Tesla and other cars in that price range. Understandable, but this car is not for you. This car is for the Lexus fanboy or girl who wants an EV but doesn't want Tesla or other brands. They are more loyal to brand. I know because it's why my friend bought one. She doesn't care about all the specs. She's a city driver only and a huge Lexus fan. The range is plenty for her.
An EV is not for everyone. It depends on how you use the car. First, with current battery technology, a gas or hybrid car is still the most convenient way to go if you are using your vehicle for long road trips. That should change when solid state battery technology arrives. Second, I would not own an EV if I didn't have a level 2 charger at my residence. About four years ago I traded my Corvette for a Lexus RX350. I wanted a realiable, comfortable, luxurious car with lots of "bells and whistles". That Lexus turned out to be the best car I ever owned. Not long after that, a friend and I test drove the Tesla Model 3 and Y. When we accelerated, it was so quick we both started laughing. I was sold on EVs. When the Lexus RZ became available I was very interested, until I learned of the dismal range. I dismissed it until a friend (same friend) decided to go test drive the RZ. Naturally I went along with him out of curiousity. We both loved the car. The sales person told us about the Lexus Reserve program where we could get a "free" rental for up to three years for any road trips we took. This, along with the fact that I would be giving my RX350 to my wife, made me consider purchasig the vehicle. The night before I bought it, I strongly considered the Tesla Model Y. In the end, I went with the RZ because of the same reasons I loved my RX350. I have been driving the car all over town and usually charge it once or twice a week. I LOVE this car. But then again, it is not for everyone.
Exactly. Depends on WHY you buy the EV. A friend of mine has one and she doesn't drive anywhere but the city. So it's perfect for her. She's not a road tripper. She's on a plane most of the time. LOL
