PLEASE STOP SPOILING THINGS IN THE COMMENTS 😭😭 you know I love y’all and so I try to read/respond to every comment. But I’ve had to stop because I’ve read so many spoilers for the series at this point. Please at least mark a spoiler in your comment if it spoils beyond book one. Thanks!
I'm sorry so many unthinkingly threw spoilers your way. I re-read my comment just to triple check myself. I don't think I spoiled anything but I did mention themes. I really apologize if that threw you off too. 😌
It speaks a lot to how badly people have conflated Game of Thrones with the entire book series (since it is the name of the entire show series). Game of thrones is just book 1! She didn’t read the whole series!!
@@Bookborn lol! I know but still I felt like I inadvertently joined the pile on😆 I highly recommend A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms stories when you need ASOIAF to be a little less dark. Fun romp compared to the others.
The reason George Martin's dialogue is so good, so punchy and economical is because he used to be a script writer for network television in the 80's. So he's had a lot of practice.
@@Bookborn Yes, they literally lifted entire scenes of dialogue from the book and didn't need to adapt them. That is why the last 2 seasons were terrible because George hadn't finished the last book yet and the script writers tried and failed to fill in.
@@ryan7864They didn't follow A Dance with Dragons too closely tho. But of course that book would have had material for about three seasons if they did.
@@ryan7864 Well, the HBO show gets worse with season 5, asoiaf had enough stories for 7 seasons but they made 4 seasons with the first 3 books and changed nearly everything from book 4 and 5 and made just one season with those 2 books...
@@karimabidi8312 I mean... partly correct, partly wildly incorrect. They had George's roundabout outline for the series. So, they didn't change the plot much. They just filled in story stuff he hasn't written yet. And people who think the overall outcome will be wildly different in the books... well, they haven't been paying attention to the books already released. That will be the overall outcome.
Yeah, that's never been a concern of mine as far as reading! It's always a little sad when things you love aren't finished, but I don't think it's the end of the world.
Yeah , I don't regret reading these they were great. If he never finishes them what ever... I'll be sort of sad. It honestly just makes me think of Lucans Civil war where the author was made to commit suicide by Nero before he could finish it... The book/epic poem was still amazingly written up to the point he got and is historically significant in so many ways that have impacted other works that have come after.
That is a great gift. My wife read Mistborn in secret as a gift to me. I had no idea until she brought it up while we were out for dinner for my birthday. It made me happy.
The Trifecta of best humorous characters in Fantasy: Glotka, Matrim Cauthon & Tyrion Lannister!! Their POV’s were the most anticipated chapters in each series!
I don't mind Tyrion's backstory in isolation, tbh, because I can tell that marriage thing will probably come up a lot. I think it was the sum total of "something feels off in how often this is mentioned". But also, Tyrion was my favorite so I'm ready and willing to not care about it🤣
It was very exaggerated and exploitative, I thin G RR Martin often uses SA as a stock way of shocking people, in this instance, its used as a method for creating sympathy for tyrion rather than the girl in question which is problematic and lacking respect imo.
@@thefantasynuttworkyeah Jimmy and I also think Daenerys trauma also plays a huge role in her storyline even more considering how… you know season 8, episode 6.
Standing in line for Robert Jordon book signing and the person ahead asked if I had read Game of Thrones, at the point where it was only one out. Nope I said. He said buy it right now and start reading while you wait. Greatest book signing advice I ever received
I remember watching that first season and having to go take a walk on the beach for like an hour after Ned died. I honestly couldn't believe how much it affected me. I immediately picked up all the books and read them all in one summer before the second season came out.
Heh, I kept waiting for him to be saved. That's how 99.99999 percent of fantasy books would go. Main character (seemingly) is about to get executed. He'll be saved at the last second! Right? Right!?!?!?! Then his daughter sees his head chopped off. I had no words at the time. I read the book when it came out, so was never spoiled, as some would likely have been these days.
Yup, it was super shocking. That was when I knew that this series was DIFFERENT and could be something great. It was devastating but the shocking end of season 1 made the show feel like something fresh and new compared to the other Hollywood stuff at the time which felt stale and recycled.
I'm one of the few, I guess, who had read what happened before Ned got killed, and somehow it still kind of surprised me when I watched it! I was wondering "will they or won't they?" through the entire lead up, and I knew that they were doing (at least the first season of) the series right because they didn't back off from beheading Ned. Things started going downhill about 3 seasons later.
Re: magic in a song of ice and fire - it’s endlessly frustrating how much the show stripped the magic and other fantasy stuff away from the world (especially in later seasons) and I’m always very excited when people talk about the magic in this world ❤
The only magic left was the dragons, white walkers(or as they are known in the book, the others) and Bran’s warging. The dragons were kept because they looked cool, the white walkers were used as elaborate hype creators while not meaning anything and the Bran stuff was only around because it couldn’t just be ignored
@@rhaenyratargaryen1stofhern55 yep, Martin even said dany only was fireproof then because of various things, mostly the fact that she literally sacraficed a dude, i would imagine a human sacrafice has enough power involved to protect you from mere flame for a time lol
It's been shown that dragons in some way basically dictate the magic in the series. Essos still has a lot of magic especially in the far east as there are plenty of dragons left.@@Isuream6331
I've had all 5 books on my shelf since 2014. I've only read about 200 pages of the first book that year and never picked it back up. I was a massive fan of the show at the time and wanted to wait for that to finish before reading the books. We all know how the show ended, so I didn't have motivation to pick up the books after that. I read the prologue again recently and was amazed that The Others had more character and depth in those short pages than in the entire show's 8 seasons. Books are the best.
It would be absolutely devastating if you go to your grave having no idea how great 'A Storm of Swords', 'A Feast For Crows', and 'A Dance With Dragons' are.
Same, she's my favourite POV character. Her thoughts are so insightful, and helps a lot with the worldbuilding. She does not deserve all the hate she gets :(
Yeah I think people are confusing what I said as thinking she’s a perfect mom. Obviously I HATE how she treats Jon! But I loved how realistic her portrayal is and she’s just so well written!
I have read everything GRRM has written in the GOT universe, including the Song of Ice and Fire Series which I have read 6 times. It never gets old. Your video makes me want to read it a 7th time. Thanks....By the way the scenes that make us uncomfortable are supposed to make us uncomfortable but trust me they are not gratuitous. One of the reasons these books have taken so long to write is that there is not a word that has not been placed where it is in the story for a reason.
So I’ve been avoiding G.O.T. for many of the same reasons as you (and also have been spoiling myself because I had no intention of ever reading/watching it 😂) but you/this video have convinced me to change my mind and read it… If the story, characters, and prose are that good, then it’s definitely something I want to read. Thank you for being willing to go out of your comfort zone and Happy (belated) Birthday to Kyle!
I haven’t! I’ve been hesitant to try grimdark books in general, so if Game of Thrones goes well, I will have a whole bunch of books to add to my TBR. 😅
Read it bro. It's amazing! I also avoided it for over a decade and just started reading the series on May 20th this year. I just finished Clash of Kings (book 2) last night and it was even better than book 1, extremely engaging and addicting, I just kept wanting to flip to the next page. Now I started book 3 (Storm of Swords) tonight and went 42 pages in and WOW! Stuff just keeps getting more and more interesting and I can tell this is where the books start to be a little more different from the TV show. The book(Storm of Swords) is 1128 pages long! So I'll have plenty of reading even at my fast pace. The books are filled with detail too, LOTS of subtle hints, foreshadowing, little hidden details that mean something and will have you flipping back pages to find what it's referencing, lots of Lovecraft references and ancient mythology or folk lore references etc. I could reread the books 10 times over and find new stuff that I missed. I'm always stopping while reading and trying to "connect the dots" where I can. If you want a physical copy of the books, look on Amazon - the best way to go is the Leather bound cloth book set for 50$.(not real leather but feels real and awesome! :)) Super high quality and is like a mix between hardcover and paperback, but high quality still with sewn/ stitched and glued pages on spine (I don't know book terms lol but these will not fall apart, and no wear on them so far except me accidentally bending some pages a couple times when I was drinking lol) the stitching on the spine even has the red and yellow checkered cloth lip like Lannisters banner colors. The leather bound cloth book set for 50$ are the same exact price as the mass market paperback - and all the paperback reviews on Amazon are terrible with missing pages messed up print and damaged with pages falling out etc. So if you want the physical books then the leather bound cloth book set is the best and cheapest way to go at 50$. Otherwise get the hardcover because the paperback sucks. Other wise if you're getting the e book, I'd recommend paying the extra 2$ for the illustrated version with artists beautiful paintings at the start of every chapter. I got the e book illustrated version for 7$ and the regular version was 5$. I just used the e book when traveling and would check for the artwork every chapter on my phone even when I was reading the physical book - when I started a new chapter I would open up my phone to check for the painting or artwork at the beginning of each chapter and then go back to my physical book. The illustrated e book was worth the 7$ just for that. 10/10 can recommend.
Love this video!! And what a great birthday gift! ***Book one spoilers*** The way I interpreted Dany’s “relationship” with Drogo was that she had Stockholm. At first we got more of a clear picture of the real Drogo but as Dany tries to cope with the TERRIBLE things she goes through, she becomes a less reliable narrator. I am not sure how to put it into words but I think it’s really important that she is the one that ends up killing him. Also, as disgusting as it is to be reminded of, I think the references to her being a child are important (especially in a post-show world). I feel like that’s Martin being like, “Hey remember how wrong this is?? This is BAD, not romantic.”
Exactly what I thought. Dany loves Khal Drogo because she doesn't know what actual love is. Khal Drogo is a barbarian warlord with no redeeming features. But to Dany he is a hero because he has demonstrated less physical threat than her unstable brother. And that is all.
I agree. That's the thing with seeing through their perspectives. For her, Drogo was a "savior" who didn't smack or pinch her at every mistake she made. It was also compounded by her (a child's) thought of what love was (and Viserys being the one to be compared to). But for the reader, yeah, we see what it really is. And the more we read/reread, the more we see the truth behind the veil of a character's viewpoint.
@@blaubeer8039was the "as though she was a child" from dany's POV or another characters? Because if it was from Dany's then it underlines EXACTLY their point. She maybe doesnt view herself as a child but other people obviously stillview and treat her as one because they see the child from the outside while she doesnt consider herself as one
Okay, trying to see the opposite perspective. Apart from Dany's age or previous experiences, is there anything, why she should not love Drogo? He is a leader, he is strong, he cares for her. He accepts a lot of decisions by her (for herself, for her relationship, for the tribe). The Dothraki are savages, but so are most cultures (not all) in that world, and some more subtle. And even if they are savages, that is not a reason that Dany does not like it. Do we get any hint that Dany wants to get rid of Drogo? She wants to mold him, influence him, yes, but that happens in 90% of modern partnerships by both partners; and is one of the driving forces to improve or be better as a couple, or at least as improving one's own situation.
As a Song of Fire and Ice fan since 2006 and I consider it being the best fantasy series ever and Storm of Swords is one of my favorite novels. But I actually while reading it felt same about consent scenes and minors etc. to a point I remember discussing this with other people… however as a history nerd I know concept of childhood wasn’t really existing in Middle Ages and Martin draws a huge inspiration from Late-middle ages in England so I get why it was there. Oh and also NS death I had it spoiled by person who recommended me the books so even I knew back then lol
Yeah, I think the historical component is why I understand Dany's storyline - like tbh, her terrible brother forcing her into this marriage 100% made sense; I just wish there were some scenes that were discussed differently or even just...used different words.
@@Bookborn I think I know what parts you're talking about, and if they're the same Dany bits as I'm thinking of, GRRM has since said that he regrets writing them the way that he did, as though he approved in any way of what was happening, and that there are some that he regrets writing at all. So good on him for growing as a person I guess?
I think a lot of the readerbase does not understand the subtext that Martin put into the relationship between Drogo and Dany. If you strip it down to the basics, Dany is worshipping an abuser because he rescued her from another abuser. For a child who has normalized abuse, this is actually a very realistic reaction. Many people being abused worship their abuser. And if you really pay attention to Dany's arc as it continues, she is constantly relating to and struggling with issues around slavery, hierarchy, patriarchy--all the things that are normalized in this world, which have harmed Dany. And what it really offers is an exaggerated version of the patriarchy in our world, and thereby essentially criticizes the patriarchy of our world by its parallels with the world of Westeros. But it's not something you really pick up on until you've read the whole series and then you re-read Game of Thrones, so I think a lot of people miss it. I think Martin can be a little too subtle with his unreliable narrators sometimes.
I did actually think Dany might be an unreliable narrator - but the problem is without another person to challenge her thoughts, it’s hard to tell where the story actually lies. Here’s the thing: I got her storyline. I don’t think it’s crazy at all that she’s been married off at 13. But there are still scenes that rub me the wrong way, unreliable narrator or not, because it’s words used to describe Dany, and not her inner thoughts, if that makes sense.
Horribly bad take tbh. Danny doesn't see Drogo as an abuser. It has nothing to do with her brother or being saved by Drogo. Danny's scene with Drogo is just poorly written. She goes from being naive and shy to being a very confident nymph. She takes his hand and guides it to her privates. She is just a 12 year old who falls for the older big bad boy dude. It's not some "I'm grateful" thing. The scene would have been uncomfortable regardless. As someone that lost his virginity at a very early age and knew girls that age that were very promiscuous., it's not like I'm aware that kids can be like that. But Danny was written poorly in that scene or should have given hints that she liked Drogo at least the looks of him before that scene. Instead she was super nervous and naive and then suddenly she's confident and really into it. It didn't help that I have 2 much younger sisters that were around Danny's age when I read that. And since I practically raised my lil sisters and saw them as babies it made me even more uncomfortable, then thinking back at my own youth, the pressure to lose your virginity in HS etc etc. It made me feel disgusted and quite upset that my little sisters probably had that same pressure on their shoulders. And then I remembered trying to set up this after school activity and going to a meeting with this 26 year old dude who worked for the municipality. And I brought a girl friend of mine with me, she was a very attractive young girl, 15 years old and the dude was eye fkning her the entire time making suggestive comments making her super uncomfortable. Which made me even more upset since I have no doubt my sisters will face the same type of creeps.
@@BookbornI know you’re no longer reading comments so will probably never see this. But one thing you have to keep in mind with Martin is that the “third person narrator” in chapters is still the mind of the POV character. Think of that stuff still as Dany’s POV and not a narrator. Granted, it’s been awhile since I’ve read AGOT, so I might be forgetting some things. But the whole “like a child” thing to me still makes sense within Dany’s POV. I totally understand if it still makes you feel icky. And to some extent, that’s the point. However, just wanted to clear that up as I’ve seen some people not understand that in other reviews of ASOIAF and his other books.
I don't think it's impossible that Dany actually fell in love with Drogo in the end. And Drogo with her. Maybe there's Stockholm syndrome to a degree but it's not a leap in my eyes. It's just someone in a crappy situation learning how to make the best of it and eventually coming to love it. It sucks I know and our culture nowadays definitely doesn't like this kind of thing but yeah I think Martin hit on some historic truths and brought them into his fantasy realm.
I enjoyed how Tyrion struggled to convince Mord to let Tyrion out of the cell so he could 'confess' his crimes. He knew Mord would have enjoyed a reward of gold, but the offer wasn't initially understood. There's even a moment when Tyrion empathizes with Mord, realizing the man must have been used to people tricking him out of rewards before. This is why I enjoy Tyrion the most in the early books. Book 4 moving on, not so much.
I always think it’s super awkward when you’re a POV character in a morally complex fantasy setting and then your world gets broadcast into a parallel universe in fictionalized form and you are the one person who is nobody’s favorite POV character. Really hate that feeling 😢
I think it makes people uncomfortable how realistic george makes his stories, he draws inspiration from real historical events, the incest, the marrying off of young girls, etc. People like Joffrey exist thats why he writes about them
George makes his stories even darker than real life. Sure incest had occured throughout history, particularly among noble families, but the practice of marrying siblings to eachother is extremely rare, although it did occur sometimes in history. Marrying off of young girls did exist but those marriages usually went unconsumated until the girls were older because people knew that giving birth at a young age could seriously fuck people up physically. Game of thrones feels like George took the awfulness of the medieval era, and ramped it up to 11.
@bruh7862 I don't see how marrying brotherxsister is any worse than cousinxcousin, in westeros they also put off consummation a few years after puberty. In real life, Edmund Tudor consummated his marriage when his wife was 12. Don't romanticize early European society it's gross
Grrm is an avid history nerd. Tons of his ideas come from *real life* history. Had the story been set in a fantasy world where it wasnt medieval times.. then all of that stuff would be different. However. There was a time where a child was deemed a "woman" when she "flowered".. gross? Fk yeah it's gross! But that *was* normal. Just like it was normal for 10 year old boys to act as squires and literally fight in battles. To be considered grown at a crazy early age. Life expectancy back then was very, very short. I had to separate my morals based on today and the fact that we've grown and learn (in some ways) to read this book. And im glad I did. These are fictional characters. But that kind of stuff happened in real life. Up to not even that long ago. My grandmother was married at 14. To a man 10 years older than her. That was like... the 40s. Elvis started a relationship with his future wife when she was 14. And he's still worshipped. And i refuse to listen to his music for that reason.. bc he Didnt have the excuse that it was "medieval times" when you were considered an old person at 35.
Two months ago a friend that I was not too close to wrote me saying he needed someone to talk about A song of ice and fire, because he really needed it and he was sure no one else could understand him, even if he watched the entire show. And the same happened to me when I read it XD Glad you liked it!
This was long before the show came out, and it may not have been directly one series after each other, but I read Game of Thrones after the Wheel of Time, and your thoughts on Ned were similar to my own and when I got to that part of the story I was shocked. At the time I had never read a book this big where something like that happened. It still stands out in memory as to my feelings after reading that scene and then retrospectively thinking about the rest of the book and how this was not going to be a happy world to be in.
@@BookbornI love how he kills him too. He set up an interesting possibility if Ned hadn't died. He would have been sent to the wall, and one could see how the story would have progressed from there on. And his relationship with Jon in the wall with all the events to follow would have been amazing to read. George gives us a realm of exciting possibilities, only to cast them out with a wicked slash of a sword.
Same for me. I read the first book in the late 90s before I turned 30. One of my biggest book memories is reading Ned's execution, sitting there stunned for a second, quietly closing the book and going for a Long walk. I had some thinking to do, lol. Here I am now, age 54 twenty-some years later, stilled loving the story and anxiously awaiting what comes next.
@@Bookborn The book's reputation that you knew -- no character is safe -- was established precisely by this particular death. It sets the tone, in no uncertain terms. How cool that you got to experience it!
Do yourself a huge favor and never ever ever Google anything about this series ever until you've finished all the books. That was the biggest mistake I made back when I first read it 😂 "The web is dark and full of spoilers"
Oh I even just googled names to get a picture and I was TERRIFIED. I already know a decent amount so I am trying to be EXTRA careful I don't spoil anything else
As someone who stopped reading for leisure in middle school, I'm proud to say this video is the one to get me back into it. ASOIAF has always held a mild interest in my head, but I could never imagine myself actually committing to reading these daunting books in their entirety. This video convinced me to finally leap into it. I am only a quarter of the way into AGOT, I bought it as a Christmas gift for myself, and I can already tell I will be hooked through it's entirety. Happy New Years to anyone reading this comment!
You stepped out of your comfort zone and gave something a chance.. whether you liked or not, thats the part that really matters here. I've never seen one of your videos so I have nothing to go off of but its always cool to see people have enough of an open mind to give things outside of their believed tastes a chance.
I mean, they're all great, but wasn't it book 3 and 4 that split the viewpoints, and happen roughly simultaneously? When they actually came out, I was irritated by that, because it meant you'd go an entire book without seeing your favorite character, depending upon who it was.
you liked feast? well I'm not judging, there were great chapters, but it was mostly dragged down by two PoV characters which were really boring to me in this book 😅 maybe I'll change my mind soon, since I am currently reading asoiaf for the second time but for now I'd say that Strorm and Dance are the best with Clash being a great setup book with the best written battle that I've ever read
@@Aldric524 it was 4 and 5 and yes, for this exact reason I'm glad that I've read them for the first time 2016. now I'm only frustrated that I have to wait another 6 hundered years before Winds releases
This is the first time finding your channel... i love seeing people read the A Song of Ice and Fire series... i can't wait till you get to A Feast For Crows and Dance With Dragons... people tend hate them on first reads and grow to love them on re-reads. Excited for your review of the rest of the series
So glad you decided to give it a chance! Loved your reflection on the random things you’ve heard about GOT over the years and how they weren’t accurate 😆 (the Jaime one was the best lol) I watched (and loved) the show before reading the books but the show actually does a departure from the source material at a certain point so reading the series is like discovering the story for the first time, in a way! There’s so many more characters and complex plot lines in the books 🖤 Looking forward to your thoughts on Clash of Kings!
@@Bookborn Somehow I keep seeing the actor from the series dressed in drag when you mentioned thinking Jaime was a girl. It's kind of a great image in my head.
This video showed up in my recommended section and I am so glad I clicked. This is one of my favorite book series of all time and I loved hearing somebody’s thought reading it for the first time! Definitely excited to hear you talk about more in the future, if you loved the first book you are definitely in for a treat with A Clash of Kings and A Storm of Swords :)
its astounding how people care about sexist issues while reading fantasy books the world of GOT is a cruel one, can't compare the standards with our contemporary world
I started reading the series after I watched Season 1 of the show. I read all the books over a single summer before watching Season 2 and I could not put them down. I also read G.R.R.M's old short story collections from his first few decades of writing, and they were also exceptional. His prose is very good even in those older works. I stopped watching the show partway through Season 5 because it turned into terrible fanfiction even though there was plenty of source material left to cover.
I did something similar - I read Game of Thrones after I watched the first episode of the series, watched the rest of the first season knowing the big shock on its way, then read the rest of the series before S.2. So I got all the surprises from the books, but also noticed early on where the writers started straying in ways that weren't great.
Your surprise to the age of the characters is so accurate! I've always aged them up in my head, never could picture them as children (I'm a huge fan of the books. Read them 20 years ago ^^). Martin himself told that the ages were not his strong suit ^^ (and as a huge fan, I'm totally with you on your take on dany's journey. Being a fan does not mean saying that everything is okay with it!)
I also heard apparently Martin expected there to be time jumps and then it never sort of happened, so he wishes he would've started them older. Like you said, it's an easy thing to just ignore in your head and age everybody up a few years 😂
@@Bookborn It would be great if he came out with editions with just the ages changed, although, really, I think everything happens so fast over such a short period, he could have just had more time passing during the events, not exactly time jumps. One advantage the show had was that the child actors aged, so time had to pass. I always found it weird as a kid when the Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew didn't age. I kept expecting them to go to college at some point.
I get what you are saying with a lot of the throwaway mentions of Dany and Tyrions past are a bit tedious with trauma etc but they are pretty important later in the story. Martin is brilliant in that practically every line that is written is important and will come into play at some point. I feel he is unique in that I feel. So happy you enjoyed all of the POVs - Sansa for me was a drag but Yay! I am so happy that you are into this now. Welcome!
Ok I will defend Sansa with my LIFE, TAKE IT BACK!!! lol and yeah, I was almost going to mention that there is a possibility that the things that annoyed me in this book will make sense later with more context. I can only judge it by this first book so far though!
@@Bookborn One of the things that impressed me more as I read GRRM was his ability to slip callbacks into the story that are so subtle I almost missed them... so finding one was a delight. A reward for attentive reading. It makes the story feel alive, because callbacks are just as often small "unimportant" things as they are big things.
I watched the show first and started to read after season 5 or 6. I can remember distinctly how much I loved the first book, then the second I thought was even better. The third book is my favourite book I've ever read and I'm not sure it will ever be surpassed by anything. I'm glad you're getting involved in this series. The show really did the books a disservice because, as you point out, some of the content is problematic, but the show ramped it up to a million degrees. Very glad you're reading this series. I'll 100% come back to check reactions to the later books. Your experience is going to be quite a unique one.
OMG, it finally happened! Fingers crossed that you liked it. Edit. I'm so glad you're loving it. I saw the series first, but it didn't really ruin my experience. The books are so much more nuanced than the series that the spoilers didn't really matter. However, I like the last two books better than readers who have only read the book because I read them without spoilers since the series didn't adapt them. How did you like the POV of Bran and Sansa? They are probably the least favorite povs in the fandom. I don't hate them, but they definitely seem weaker compared to the others. Although I do like what George tried to do with Sansa by making her a more stereotypical fantasy princess.
I loved the last two books for the same reason. I kept expecting things from the show to happen that didn't happen (some did, some didn't). They were great.
Ok so I meant to talk about this in the video, but I will defend Sansa with my LIFE (idk if she needs it or not tho lol). I just feel like people are probably really annoying about Sansa and blame her for things that happen but she's ELEVEN like GIVE HER A BREAK. Anyway, I get why Sansa isn't as beloved, but I quite enjoyed her viewpoints because I thought it was a really interesting take on a very classic character. It was well done, imo.
@@BookbornThat’s a great point about her age. I think everyone who started the books after seeing the show continue to view the characters as the age of the actors rather than the age of the characters in the books.
People putting today's morals onto things based off how medieval morals and the way the world was at that time (plus, it's fantasy) is wild to me. Yes. Marriage at 13 IS insane. But. There was a time where the world considered that completely normal.
It's not people, It's women. Not even majority. A few women are raised in such manner that they become extremely sensible to everything harmful to their world view. Surely there's gotta be an exception or two, but this gotta be mainly a female issue.
I cant wait for you to continue. I love seeing your reactions and hearing predictions. Just buckle up because it is truly a wild ride. I read all the books before the show ever came out, so it was interesting to see what they kept in the show from the books, what they tweaked and what they left out. There is one particular story line the show left out, that I LOVED in the books. I’m curious to see how you react. It’s so much fun seeing someone experience GoT for the first time! Can’t wait to see your reactions as you continue!
It’s been over 13 years I’ve started this ASOIF and I still haven’t gotten over Ned’s death 😭. Just found your channel (after seeing you with Merphy talking about Sanderson’s secret projects - I think you made amazing points about everything!). Subscribed!
These books are soooo good and the showrunners did the last few seasons dirty. Its a shame Martin hasn't finished it cuz its one of the best fantasy series ever.
If you loved the characters PoVs I think you will enjoy the saga a lot, its a great thing about it, I was suprised by Catelyn too, just such an interesting character and somehow she became my favorite after a few years when looking back.
Game of Thrones was weirdly the first adult fantasy book I read. I’d heard about the show for forever and wanted to read it first. I also loved it, Have only read the first two books so far. Ned dying was something I’d heard about before reading, but I was starting to believe he wouldn’t actually die till it happened. He seemed like the actual main character, but it’s true, he’s definitely too good to survive. So far my favorites have remained Tyrion, Jon, and Arya. Glad you enjoyed the book!
I never thought I'd see this video, and damn does it feel good! I read the books after watching season 4 of the show, so everything after book 3 was completely new to me. It did change the experience because a lot of shocking twists in the first 3 books weren't shocking, but I still enjoyed seeing the "book version" of how those scenes played out, and there was a lot that was new to me even in the parts I'd already seen in the show, just because the show couldn't possibly adapt everything 1:1
Some of the points raised regarding GRRM's writing, such as the quality of his prose, and in particular his dialogue, are points I've raised for years, having read the first book back in 1997. It's what elevates the series over 99% of the genre. As a father myself, Ned is also my favorite character.
I saw the show in it's entirely before making my way through the books. It was marvelous. The books are so much fuller and Martin is a master at creating real lived in characters.
How you felt about Ned's death was how everyone felt, that's why he is so popular. I am glad you liked cat, because most of them hate her for 2 reasons 1. How she treats jon 2. What she did with jamie.
I mean I REALLY dislike how she treats Jon, but it's just...so understandable, people today would act like that. I'm always a "don't blame children for what they can't help!" and so it really frustrates me and makes me angry at her as a character, but she's SO well written. You don't have to like a character's every decision to like them or understand them!!
@@BookbornI know you say you have no intentions on watching the show but I sure do hope you change your mind. There are some quality adds in the show that make it worth the watch. Namely there’s a conversation with Cateyln early in season 3 about Jon that is so heartbreaking and enlightening that it makes you feel her soulfulness and sadness for Jon all at once. It was brilliantly written and delivered.. Seasons 1-4 of the show is arguably the greatest run a show has ever had. The stumbles don’t really appear until season 5 as they run out of book material and Martin is no longer involved in the production.
The problem with utilizing our modern sense of over-use about something that wasn't viewed that way when the book was written is similar to saying Jimi Hendrix "isn't that good of a guitarist" without acknowledging he was a pioneer of his time. You're comparing something NOW to THEN. Also, the notion things go nowhere... well, Martin rewards attentive readers. That isn't clear right away... so, it's not the fault of a reader if they think otherwise.
ASOIAF is one of my all time favorite book series, although I haven’t finished it (haven’t read books 4 & 5). I read the first book as a freshman in high school and it absolutely blew my mind in what I thought a book could do. Absolutely love the first book and it definitely peaks in the 3rd book so far. Such an amazing book/series.
This video was priceless. I read the books pretty much as they came out. I loved the show until the last two seasons. Second to last season I was a bit skeptical but I still bought in. The last season -- I have no words. I actually gave up halfway through the final season. I respect that you have little to no care if the series is ever finished. I cannot say I'm the same way. I decided when The Name of the Wind first came out, that I'd read it when the trilogy was finished. I've kept to that, and so never read it, even after it blew up in popularity. There's just too many authors I already know I like, and series that are already finished. That's kind of my thought process. That doesn't even take into account that I like to reread stuff I already love. I basically am glad I started Martin's series when I was younger, because I'm glad to have read it. But if it was coming out new NOW, I probably would never ever read it. Ah well. I mean, it's not like I never make exceptions, but it's basically done purely off friends recommendations, and only applies when I have plenty of free time. I do not have plenty of free time very often these days.
It's hard! And I think starting name of the wind is even harder than starting GoT, tbh, because of the behavior of Rothfuss in recent years 😬 Either way, I don't regret reading Kingkillers, and I don't think I'll regret reading GoT. I'll be sad for a little bit, I'm sure, but overall, even reading this first book was worth it.
@@Bookborn Heh, I'm totally not in the know of Rothfuss's behavior in recent years. The only stuff I was aware of is it seems he has permanent writer's block, or is too much of a perfectionist to finish his trilogy. I only follow a few authors beyond reading their books. Sanderson is one of the few I still follow that way. I realize I might be missing out of total gems on unfinished series, but there's so many books in the world! It's not like I can read them ALL anyway. I'd always have to pick and choose. Choosing (mostly) to read things that are done makes me a bit happier.
George has a knack for dialogue for sure, but not many people talk about the levels of foreshadowing, symbolism and overall prose to his writing. Some of the imagery is quite phenomenal and thought provoking, especially when describing battle scenes or violence. Describing an army as a steel rose, or the sound of swords clashing as a song. Just adds another level to the enjoyment for me.
I also avoided it for much the same reason but did eventually read the series. There were scenes, especially in later books with Reek, where I would skip forward when it got too graphic. They are amazing stories and well written, so I powered through those sections.
It's a book series that mimics medieval times and before. It's a series full of hardships growth and triumphs. It's a series full of murder, beheadings, back stabbings, and torture. Should they just remove the SA because it bothers you? But not the torture? With out those things happening to Dany, you wouldn't feel for her so much, her brother's death wouldn't be so sweet. Her highs wouldn't be as high without the lowest of lows..... Don't let rape from a book victimize you....
I know you don't care about spoilers but being on guard for weddings is sad because the red wedding is definitely one of the best shocking scenes ever. I'm so glad I read the book before being spoiled on it
Yes!!! I’ve been waiting for this review as well! Not disappointed!! I’m glad, even though you already knew so much of this series, no one spoiled main event for you! I’m looking forward to see you review the rest of the series and know who you think will win the Game of Thrones
Well the line that gave me chills is when catelyn confronts Tyrion about attempting to kill Bran and he says basically, "you know that story isn't true because I never bet against my family" and MIC DROP
I watched the show first because I wasn't reading fiction at the time of the shows airing. However, I enjoyed season one of the show so much that I went to Barnes n Noble and bought a leather-bound set of the books. Admittedly, they collected dust and moved to a couple different locations with me until this year I finally picked up GoT. Everybody always says that the books are still 100% worth a read even if you've seen the show and I have to say I concur wholeheartedly. I was amazed at how quickly I flew through the first book. I have read the first 3 so far and if you enjoyed GoT I believe personally you are in for a very entertaining ride!
@@Bookborn I have not read First Law, but it’s on my list. I’m pretty new to fantasy. I was always more into SciFi. The closest I’ve come to fantasy is reading Howard’s Conan.
@@chriscueva1866 I always wonder about people who say they’ll wait till a series is over before they start. Maybe it’s because I’m older, but do people really think they’ll live forever? I say if you think you’ll like it just read it. Enjoy it. In fact, who really knows if you’ll finish a trilogy.
@@juanmorales9738 true, I read the series about 13 years ago between seasons 1 and 2. I never regretted reading them, but It was the first fantasy series I ever read and I kinda screwed myself because no other fantasy series I’ve read since has been as good. Also, Feast for Crows is probably the best written book and thematically satisfying. If you finish the series and crave more maybe try watching Preston Jacobs. His videos are the best ASOIAF content to be released since Dance.
On the Dany thing. Martin always like to write stuff from the character's perspective. So when he describes "being lifted up like a child" i always took that to mean how Dany felt in that moment
“I know… Ned Stark is a war criminal!” That was hilarious to me, sorry 😂 So cool this wasn’t spoiled for you. I have never watched your channel until today but would love to follow your reactions though these books. I’m rereading them myself and am finishing up AGoT after abandoning the series halfway a few years ago. Btw, thanks for pointing out how beautiful George’s prose can be. I feel like this always gets buried and overshadowed, but his mastery of dialogue is truly outstanding. That exchange between Illyrio and Varys from Arya’s POV… “even the best juggler cannot keep a hundred balls in the air indefinitely. Delay, you say. Make haste, I reply.” Absolute chills. I did watch the series and while I love the first half of it more than any other TV I ever saw, I wish I could experience the books without everything being spoiled and without my preconceived notions (often incorrect in book universe) about the characters.
I'll for sure be documenting my reading of them! And yeah everyone is dying that I thought Ned must be a War criminal 😭But for real he's wild like can you imagine just being HONEST with Cersei Lannister?! I was like "NED BABY NO YOU WILL LOSE THIS GAME OF THRONES" and unfortunately I just didn't realize how correct I was 🙃
Your review had been recommended to me by friends and I’m glad I’m finally getting around to it! I started reading the books while the show was airing, but never having seen any of it - so I really liked hearing that similar perspective and basically agree on all your points in the spoiler free section. (I’ve seen some of the show, but have no interest in completing it - though I have enjoyed the prequel, for the most part). Secret War Criminal Ned Stark made me laugh, but I think you’re closer to the mark than you think, in that Ned is a well-intentioned man that commits institutionalized injustices under a system that is fundamentally unjust. I only follow a handful of booktubers but you’ve earned yourself a sub, and I look forward to watching your other videos on this and other series!
I remember reading this book for the first time before the show came out and the Ned thing got me too. I DNF'ed a clash of kings, and I have no idea why, and eventually the show came out. I think I'll end up reading these at some point but I've decided to just wait until the books are finished I think.
I watched the show as it aired live and had no idea about the books, so was completely unspoiled. When Ned’s death scene occurred to end S1E9 and just faded to black I was just dumbfounded. After the credits rolled for a few seconds I had to rewind and make sure I actually saw what I thought I just saw. Complete subversion, just awesome. And the online rage in various forums was real haha!
This book really helped me in a challenging time in my life and I absolutely love it. Were there any non POV character's you really liked or disliked? I just find so many of the big non POV characters really intriguing, even though there are some of them I honestly can't stand.
@@Wolltazar I actually really want to hear from more Lannisters, particularly Cersai. Not because like...I like her, but I would like to know what's going on in that head lol
I read it pretty fresh. I.e. I didn’t have a lot of knowledge of the plot. So when that thing happens that we shall not speak, it was shocking. I was in denial. I fully expected a ret-con of some kind in later chapters. Having gone forward I now see the value in having such a traumatic event happen. You are in for one hell of a ride going forward. I’ve read the whole thing three times now and will do so again once there is a release date for The Wnds of Winter. Yay optimism!
That was such an interesting video to me because I've read this book 10 years ago (I was 18) and had exactly the same experience with that book, tried reading book #2 but was turned off by the mention of prostitution from the start (I was too immature to think more deeply about any sexual topic at that time) and never picked up those books again, though I've been thinking about picking them up again at some point simply because I still remember that first book vividly and know I will read it in a completely new light now that I've aged. I also thought that THAT character would survive book #1 and was shocked that they didn't. 😂 I guess the actor was quite memorable (I've watched a few episodes of season #1 and, yeah, it was definitely too graphic for me, especially that beheading 😬). I've also heard about THAT reddish scene and I've been so curious about it ever since. I really need to go back to it and give it a proper chance as it seems like the best timing in my life to do so (and even more now that you'll post ASOIAF content!). I'm surprised you didn't talk about *SPOILER* .... Viserys' death. I remember shaking all over at the end of that chapter. I can't imagine a worst death, honestly. 💀
Listening to this was very shocking. It is like hearing someone discover ice cream is good and then tell other people that ice cream is good. I really enjoyed this video start to finish. Many thanks.
Medieval marriages of girls in their early teens (and occasionally even younger) are a historical fact. This goes against many values and laws of current times (except in a few specific cultures) but not then and Martin definitely bases much of his world on our world in the middle ages and early renaissance period.
Actually, the average age of marriage for women in the Middle Ages was mid-twenties. It was just the aristocrats and royals who got married early and they represented only about 1% about the population, but they are the most people written about so people think they represent the whole society
@@spacelia3920 This. And even for political matches between royals, marrying that young wasn't nearly as common as GRRM would make you think! He just exaggerates for the drama of it all. LOL. And marriages involving very young royals also came with a lot of stipulations and protections on behalf of their parents and nations. Like, they didn't just throw a kid to the wolves! They usually had it in writing that the marriage was not to be consummated until years later when everyone reached maturity (which, no, was not at age 13!). I think some people forget that, uh, people have always been people, and historical parents cared about their kids, too! And even if they didn't care at all... they'd have to be pretty stupid to rush someone as young as 13 to consummate a marriage, knowing that it significantly increased the odds of both mother and child dying (and if the mother survived, her body might have sustained too much trauma during childbirth to ever bear another child).
Game of Thrones interpersonal relationships and the extremely rich history that Martin built in Westeros is what makes the series captivating. Initially it felt overwhelming to learn all of the families, marriages, and major events that led to the current status of the realm where you begin reading the story, but the character development that all of these well crafted POV characters go through makes it really enjoyable. Hope you continue the series!
Game of Thrones (show) is what got me into fantasy and reading in general. I can’t remember the year, but there were two seasons out at the time, and I had the show on repeat watching it over and over and over trying to snatch little bits of subtle storytelling and world building because I wanted to know everything about this world. Bare in mind, I was the type who would turn his nose up at the mention of LoTR or really anything at all fantasy. I decided to read the books about a year later and was pleasantly surprised that the books were even better. I had only read a handful of books at this point. I doubt they reached double digits. Literally life changing.
It's one thing I always said about GoT: it got a LOT of people into fantasy. I'll never forget friends I had watching that show that would've previously never touched fantasy. I'm always so grateful for that reason!
I think GRRM expects us to know when to be grossed out and to know when to question things. He isnt going to spell out for us when we should feel disgust or outrage nor how much of those feelings to feel. I like that in an author. It also helps to remember that George is an avowed pacifist. It is enlightening to put oneself in that mindset and read the books wholly from that perspective. 😳 and 🥺. Everything is even worse than we thought - and that's the point. After reading the books for close to 30 years, I marvel that there are people on Planetos, not just Westeros, who actually live to adulthood and die from natural causes. There isnt one religion that is "good". Even the faith of the seven sanctions execution, torture and genital mutilation. Planetos is messed up to put it mildly, and it has seeped into every cultural, governmental, religious and civilian population. Ser Davos says in the show "if your god commands you to burn(kill) a child, your god is evil!" Now, apply that statement to Everything and Everyone in the books and expand it to rulers, noble houses, men, women and children. Yikes. Switching to this perspective, completely changed the books for me. As a survivor myself and someone who also works as a peer support, this perspective has changed a lot in my personal life, too, not just how i read books. I'm enjoying the video!❤
I agree so much about Dany, and I think the easiest way it could have been avoided would have been to include another perspective from someone in her life who was older who might have a more adult understanding of what their....relationship truly looked like. I think Martin tried to tow a line between wanting to make the point that it wasn't actually a good relationship, and wanting to convey the perspective of the character, who herself felt affection for Drogo, after a fashion. Being a little kid, raised in a position where she was treated like both an adult and property from a young age, her perception of her relationship with Drogo couldn't convey the disturbing nature of that relationship without making Dany herself, as the pov we are reading from, recognize it as problematic herself. I think Martin wanted to convey not only that that society deemed it appropriate, but that she herself was oblivious to what was actually gross about it. If there had been an outside perspective who could have maybe lent a more mature and thoughtful view of the situation, Martin could have made it a great opportunity to talk about stockholm syndrome and how wrong it was for her to be with a man close to 3x her own age. He really missed the mark with her character, in that regard.
Clearly, you never saw a picture of George RR Martin. He’s not the kind of person who you could imagine would write about anything graphic other than the menu at the many feasts in his books.
I love that your idea for a gift for Kyle was to secretly read a game of thrones with the caveat that if you hated it you just wouldn't mention it, lol! 😂
How you felt about Ned Stark is how I felt about Janet Leigh dying halfway through Psycho. I thought she'd get back up at some point because I couldn't imagine her story just ending there. Even though her getting killed in the shower is literally THE most known thing about Psycho, the way it was set up in the story just made it so unbelievable.
I think you’re too sensitive. It’s a story not to be taken with a modern point of view. It’s like watching a movie about the civil war and saying “I don’t like the way they treated slaves”.
Martin's prose is second to none indeed. He always manages to choose the right words for what he's trying to convey, that's part of the reason he takes ages to write.
Good on you for reading book 1. I love this series, it's my favourite book series ever after Discworld. I wouldn't say this book or the others are really that graphic to be honest. GRRM knows how to write a good book without relying on shock or being deliberately controversial
@@Bookborn TBH I read the first two books before I watched the show and when I did watch it I remember thinking that there's a lot more graphic scenes in it than the book. I think in the beginning it was because they wanted to get people talking about it
I understand the opinion on Dani but the thing is: 1, Dani has had her period therefore she is of womanhood, while it might be very very weird to us it’s normal for women in the SoIaF series to do mature things once they’ve reached that level of womanhood. 2, Dani LOVED Drogo, not at first but she grew to love him with all her heart and loved him with for more than an army, she even mentions him throughout the other books.
Happy to hear you enjoyed it! I haven’t read anything in this series in a long time. After the show’s ending, I had to put it out of sight & mind for a while. I think I might return to the series some time soon. I think I’m finally ready 😭
Welcome to the company of frustrated SoIaF readers, girl. Now, about the ages of the characters, three things: 1)I'm not sure Westerosi years are the same lenght as Earth years 2) In romeo & Juliet, Juliet's mother was getting worried her daughter was getting too old to marry well - she was 14. Back then (and in Westeros) life was shorter, and adulthood started earlier. 3) Ned and Catelyn were in their 30s, and she was once referred to as an old crone.
2) Not true. Life wasn't significantly shorter, high infant mortality just screwes up the statistics. And on avarage people married in their early to mid twenties. Except aristocrats, but that had to do more with politics and was often unconsumated till years later. No matter what time period, a mother younger than 16 is really bad news.
@@i.cs.z Interesting to know, thanks. That said, in Westeros life expectancy was shorter. Point 3 is still valid, for one. And in The first Dunk & Egg story, Dunk was impressed that his old master had lived till his forties. MAybe George R R Martin was working under the same wrong impressions that I had?
@@sergioaccioly5219 GRRM probably wrote under false impression, after all these are still common myths, and they were even more common when the first books were written. But the strange thing is, life expectancy doesn't seem to be that short in Westeros, actually. It seems it seems roughtly accurate., there are a good number of old people in Westeros, and they aren't treated like unicorns. If you aren't killed in battle (big risque for knights, mercenaries, soldiers and whatnot) and you survive childhood you will probably live to your late 60's the very least. Calling Cat an "old crone" doesn't seem that significant, that could be just the one saying it being mean. I'm in my early 20's and my younger sibling call me an old man/ fossil when they get annoyed by me.
@@i.cs.z It's been a while since I read that sentence, but from what I remember it was the speaker's honest opinion. It was something about Bran's attempted murder after the fall, wondering about how she survived - I think. Now, a question. In your opinion (possible spoilers ahead, those that didn't seetheseries or read the books, better stop reading now), how relevant is the fact that Jon Snow was elected Lord Commander of the Night Watch at 14? Granted that he was the second youngest out of hundreds, but still, from what you were saying he was probably the youngest member by a decade.
@@sergioaccioly5219 14 is deff young, but wasn't he closer to 16 at that point? I can't tell how relevant that is in this conversation. That feels like something that has to do more with the narrative than with how Westeros supposed to work. For the record, it was rare to become a soldier before the age of 16 even in medieval times, most finished puberty before they got to fight. And even if you consider 40 as elderly, 14-16 is too young to be commander material. I think GRRM just didn't think that trought, like he didn't think trought the implications behind the Mountain's height... Everyone has their shortcomings.
I've been avoiding the Witcher AND Game of Thrones series for the very same reasons as you... and with this video, you've convinced me to give Game of Thrones a chance, hopefully next month as I now have book #1 checked out from the library (ebook & audiobook).
No spoilers: Going through your ASOIF playlist now. I read these at work during my lunch breaks (a coworker loaned me their set a few years before the show came out) and I was devouring everything in the first book. Martin writes in both a way that is so detailed but so consumable. I felt the cold of winter and the body achingly long walks and the terror-inducing tension in the political doublespeak. He has such a gift and while I wish he would eventually finish the series, I'm so happy to have even these few works to cherish. First book spoilers: When I was reading the scenes you mentioned (Ned's death and Dany 's "wedding") and was just in shock. I cried at lunch and on the way home.
@@Bookborn I am being serious. You live under a rock. Most people ARE evil, and violent in the real world. GoT is true to human nature. That's what makes it good. You are ignorant, and arrogant.
I read the book when it came out before it was really famous outside of hardcore fantasy fans. When that surprise happened near the end of the book happened, it was so good and so amazing. It was so novel to read a book where the characters were not safe. Not everyone makes it to the end. It might not have been the first time that’s ever happened but it was so rare back then it was even more shocking because the heroes never die.
